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Actually, it wasn’t that bad, but if they don’t kill off Lucifer, someone is going to get s nasty email. I dvr’d the episode and didn’t bother to watch any of the Lucifer plot B. I think Pellegrino is a good actor (his episodes in The Closer are hilarious) but enough already! They gave up Crowley and Charley and Gabriel and kept him? Is he sleeping with the writing staff or is willing to work for scale? WTf?
Carolyn –
I liked Pellegrino’s part in the episode. I think he’s done a nice job of taking Nick from haunted and tortured to enjoying being a torturer and longing for a haunting. I wasn’t in love with the terminator coming out of the black goo at the end – but that’s not on him.
Still, I can understand carrying a grudge about who was kept and who was killed.
Actually, I like Pellegrino. I’ve followed his career for a long time. He was also in Revolution and Lost and I think he’s doing great work on SPN. My problem is with the writers/show runners. I think I understand what they are trying to do by expanding SPN’s universe and exploring major characters back story like Nick. But my problem is that I didn’t sign on to watch how or why Nick was possessed by Lucifer. I admit that it is intriguing to see that he wasn’t the sad Casper Milquetoast that he appeared to be in the beginning. There is clearly more depth to him. But, is it driving the story for this season. We all know that Michael is lurking somewhere and we also know or can infer that the big battle at the end has to be about Michael and Lucifer, else what’s the point of the resurrection? So are we eventually going to revisit Season 5 except that both Dean and Sam end up in hell? That could be interesting. Or can Lucifer and Michael be trapped in the AU in some way and Team Free Will wins? My problem is that the further away we get from the Winchester saga and the rock music and the car and the lore, the less I am invested.
Understood. Everything away from the Winchesters is less time with the Winchesters. No one else is as important, and they do seem to figure less and less in their own show.
I read recently something I think Andrew Dabb said which was they were bringing in lots of other characters to keep the show vital, and it made me so sad because if that’s the way he thinks he’s keeping SPN alive, he just doesn’t get people like us and why we love Supernatural. “The Winchester saga and the rock music and the car and the lore” – nice summary. I’m with you.
Aslan’s Own – wow, yes, that really is sad. He doesn’t get it. He doesn’t get that what he has done has drained the show of vitality over the last 2 years. The basics worked. They worked great.
My issue with this is that Pellegrino is given all of the operatic emotions – big scenes, with crying and grief and DEALing and all the rest – whereas we went through one entire season (12) without Sam or Dean having ANY exploration of their emotions.
I can’t figure out the deal. It’s like they’re afraid of Sam and Dean over there –
Sam was definitely a casualty in this latest ep. Just not a lot going on.
I loved the Dean and Jack stuff – and Dean getting emotional without even realizing it was going to be that strong. His emotion surprised him. The father-son relationship – this is good territory that could be very fruitful – and I like the flip-flop with Sam and Dean and Jack – although I’d like to see more exploration of Sam’s SPECIFIC feelings about Jack – and super powers – and “being a freak” – it came up last season so I know they have it in them – but my God, can ANYONE write a good Sam episode anymore?
Other than these gripes, I was pretty good with the episode, although Rowena, ugh. Come on. She didn’t know Jack was Lucifer’s son? Gimme a break.
One spell makes Jack sicker
And one spell makes him fall
And the tests at the hospital
Don’t do reveal anything at all
Go ask Mary
When she’s ten feet tall
If you go chasing grace
’cause you know Jack’s going to fall
Tell them all that Sergei the hookah-smoking healer
Has taken your call
Summon Rowena when she was just
… who gives fuck-all
When Nick’s gone overboard
And he wonders where to go
And he’s just used some kind of hammer
And the brains are oozing slow
Go ask Cas
Though I doubt he’ll know
When history and relations
Have fallen in the ditch
And the writers are sputtering
With every episode having a hitch
Remember what Dean says
Son of a bitch
Son of a bitch
give this man a Grammy!
Ha! Me and Milli Vanilli.
Brilliant.
Thanks Carolyn!
This is hilarious and perfectly fits the classic rock tone of the show. Thanks for the laugh.
That’s awesome Mutecypher!!!
hahahaha
?????
I loved the scenes of the Impala. Baby is being shown less and less every season and it’s making me infuriated.
The Jack and Dean scenes were good. Jack interacting with the Winchesters is at least interesting to watch, unlike his mopey scenes or pep talk scenes featuring Cas. However, another episode where the Winchesters are barely on the screen together, after an episode where they aren’t on the screen together at all?
Rowena not knowing Jack was Lucifer’s son? That was a complete and utter writing error. In episode 21 when Lucifer was in the bunker with Rowena dripping grace into the bowl to keep the rift open, she taunted him with the fact that his son Jack was having a family reunion with Sam, Dean, and Cas. Her taunting was what made Lucifer angry enough to break free. I went back and re-watched the scene to make sure she specifically said Jack’s name and she did. Complete and utter sloppiness. I know there have been continuity errors before….the whole grand canyon thing is one, but that was a mistake made when seasons had passed between the material. (Dean mentioning they had never seen the grand canyon was in Season 2 and Sam mentioning farty mules at the grand canyon was in Season 8. Rowena mentioned Jack at the very end of last season! Maybe I’m being too nitpicky, but that was a really major mistake from the writers that are now the senior writers of the bunch.
I love Pellegrino as an actor and his performance of Nick has been extremely compelling to watch. My problem is that it’s a story line I have no interest in watching. I was done with Lucifer on my screen 3 seasons ago, and when they revealed that Nick was still around, with no plausible explanation, in fact with no explanation at all as to how that would even be remotely possible, I had this horrible, sinking feeling that we weren’t done with Lucifer, and I think that the end of the episode proved it.
I know it probably sounds like I hated this episode, and I actually didn’t…it really wasn’t that bad and it contained a few visual scenes that I loved.
I’m just frustrated with the show overall. Using descriptions like”decent” or “not that bad” to describe Supernatural makes me so very sad. Unfortunately, this season I haven’t been able to muster much higher praise than that.
// I love Pellegrino as an actor and his performance of Nick has been extremely compelling to watch. My problem is that it’s a story line I have no interest in watching. //
Yeah, this is my issue too. I feel kind of bad about it – because he is KILLING it right now.
// Maybe I’m being too nitpicky, but that was a really major mistake from the writers that are now the senior writers of the bunch. //
Yes, the Grand Canyon thing was glaring! But one of those things where you have to go, “Oops, okay, can’t win ’em all.” Thank you for going back to re-watch the Rowena-rift moment. Honestly, very sloppy! I’m annoyed by Rowena anyway – talk about a RIFT – her continued presence has been catastrophic, because it makes Magic too easy, and it means all we get is Sam and Dean calling her, and rolling their eyes – as opposed to, you know, figuring whatever it is out themselves.
Speaking of visuals: I love that alley with the neon. I know they use it all the time, but they pulled out the stops this time. It was truly gorgeous.
The show feels a little bit stuck to me. They’ve written themselves into a weirdo corner with the AU stuff. They continue to put Mary into the action – somehow not realizing that she just does not WORK – and if you’re going to include her, then please acknowledge it – USE it – use the fact that she doesn’t WORK. It CAN be done. Like if Sam would just SAY what is clearly floating around in Jared’s actual mind when he’s doing scenes with her, like, “You know what? Don’t give me advice. I don’t even know you.”
Like, GO there. I guess on some level it feels like the show is lying to itSELF, and that’s what’s so weird about it.
Those moments with Jared, in particular, are electric. He so clearly has NO relationship to her – to Mary – to Samantha? – who knows – and he can’t hide it. and it’s so INTERESTING. but I think it’s “accidental” – it’s just Jared being one of the most honest THERE actors around, and he can’t lie.
So I don’t think it’s part of the plan. It’s just what he’s bringing to it. And I always get excited when it happens – and it always happens when they have a scene together – it feels like something real and honest is actually occurring.
I kind of feel like the moment last season when Mary told them that she wouldn’t leave the AU, choosing other people over her own sons AGAIN…after everything they had gone through to bring her back…I kind of feel like that was the “I’m done” moment for her sons.
Maybe I’m just projecting, but I truly do feel like they have played their scenes with her since then as two men who realize that their mother is always going to be willing to put other people and causes before them, and they are pretty resigned to it.
I totally agree with you….I’m not sure that is the way the scenes are supposed to be interpreted, but it sure feels the way they are playing them…especially Jared.
That makes sense. When she said she didn’t want to leave the AU fighters because she respected them, I couldn’t believe it: she was perfectly willing to leave her SONS. Didn’t she respect THEM?
Mary’s been with Ketch and now with AU Bobby. She’s had more action since she’s been back than Sam and Dean, and she’s put more time and interest into her sexual partners than into her relationship with her boys.
Near the end of Nightmare Logic, when Mary is leaving with AU Bobby, Dean seemed very perfunctory in his goodbye, like he’d given up on anything more than a surface connection with her. And her intensity there bugged me, the way she insisted to them that if they needed her, just call her and she’d drive back. She’s saying the words because she’s “supposed to”, but her actions since she’s come back have proven that her sons are definitely not her priority. And Sam and Dean saying goodbye – it just lacked any passion; they were very blase to me. It’s as if all the yearning for a mom has been put aside because they know it’s useless. Remember in the djinn’s world how Dean leaned into her hand when she touched his face with such compassion? I just don’t see that from her. I’d love it if Amara would come back and say, “Oops! I’m not too good at this! I brought Mary back without her soul!” Haha. I jest, but still . . .
In the next episode, Dean came back to the bunker mentioning that he’d just been out to visit Mary and Bobby. but all the passion has been sucked out of all of those relationships. Remember the fierce, gruff affection our Bobby had for the boys? AU Bobby walks around wearing his skin, but it’s not him. The soul they loved, the memories they had — gone. And I feel the same toward Mary – the image they’d built up of her over the years: it’s gone. Now they’re just dealing with a shell of who they thought she was.
//two men who realize that their mother is always going to be willing to put other people and causes before them, and they are pretty resigned to it//
So …. I’m not watching anymore ( :-( ) but, wow, Michelle, the way you describe this makes me think Mom is basically Dad.
//makes me think Mom is basically Dad.//
But without the flickers of warmth and complexity that Jeffrey Dean Morgan brought to the role. :(
Oh, Helena! I’m so sorry you feel that way about John. I have always hated the false idolization of Mary, but I love John with all of his faults and trauma. He was passionate about his boys even if he was completely messed up (by Mary).
The difference between the Grand Canyon and Jack, other than the # of seasons between references, is that the GC is only important as a shared (or not shared) experience; whereas, Jack is a hugely important character whose identity and history have been integral to the Winchesters for 3 seasons. Dean might have forgotten that he saw the Grand Canyon if, for instance, he was focused on the hot chick in the gift shop; Sam would never forget the natural grandeur, farty donkeys and all. Unlike the GC, Rowena not knowing about Jack can only be seen as a huge continuity error. I think they knew it, but needed to pad the scene with drama, so they used it anyway. “Sure, let’s give those crazy fans some fodder for controversy”.
In general, though, I enjoyed much of the episode. Lots of Sam and Dean, lots of Dean, I liked Dean being like “Let’s go have some fun” – that had real depth, considering his own childhood or lack thereof. It was also unexpected. Which is also welcome.
I am enjoying Sam’s red plaid shirt, too.
I have to work to recall the episode, but then I remember the Jack & Dean plot line and I smile. I feel like this is the only really good long term arc writing in the last 2 seasons. The conflict between J & D began even before Jack was born. It was thrilling to me to watch Dean say to Jack’s face, “You’re potentially a monster and I will end you if I have to.” Even more thrilling was to see how Jack responded to that honesty. Their subtle relationship growth has been one of the most satisfying things to watch and culminating with Dean teaching him to drive and taking him fishing was “Awesome!” The least likely choice to have the father/son bond develop with Dean, rather than Cass, Sam, or Lucifer, is the best thing going in the writers room at the moment (imho). I wonder who is responsible for that choice.