The Sheila Variations

Did anybody catch any 'For Sale' signs in Minas Tirith during the movie? I think I want to get a place there. ;)

If I lived there I would definitely jog around that long promontory sticking out into the middle of space.

Oh, and the guy's name is John Noble.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0633604/

He was amazing, I thought. Shakespearean. With the juice of the berries running down his chin. Great performance.

I don't think Eowyn is that one-dimensional, though I could have done without the "I am no man" line.

Yeah. I thought "I am no man" was a bit of a pander to the females in the audience. Which, frankly, I did not need. I don't care if it's a tale solely about men (and elves and hobbits, etc.). If it's an interesting tale, who cares?? I don't.

Apparently, not many people mind that it's almost all about men...not with a $34.1 million opening night.

i think we talked about this before. as a woman, i don't need there be a woman in the story to hold my interest. if it's a good story, i do not care.

They did a bit of that, especially with Arwen and the longing looks that Eowyn shoots at Aragorn.

I think it's just a Hollywood reflex, just like most "chick flicks" will include a scene where the love interest will punch out the arrogant jerk. Though I don't think many of the women there were being dragged to this film by their boyfriends.

On a side note, I'm pretty sure the guy dressed as Gandalf arrived alone.

"I am no woman" is more or less from the book. The Nazgul King says something like, "No living man can hinder me," and Eowyn answers "I am no living man. You see before you a woman." Or something similar. I have not seen the movie, and I am assuming you are referring to the confrontation between Eowyn and the King of the Nazgul. I will stop now--before I sound like a fanatic.

David:

Hi! Thanks for beating me to the punch! Last night I looked it up in the book and that scene, "I am no man" is pretty much taken word for word from the book. The only thing Jackson added was her whipping off her helmet to show the long hair - but that's okay. Filmmakers have to make stuff VISUAL. It's better to show something, rather than having a line SAYING it.

Also - fanatics are not judged here. at least not Tolkein fanatics.

Unabashed fanatic that I am, I would certainly have preferred the dialogue between Eowyn and the Witch-King to have been lifted whole, i.e., "begone, fell dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion...come not between the Nazgul and his prey or he will not slay thee in turn," etc., but it's still a superb moment (I remember her removing her helmet in the book, too, though I'll have to go back and check) and I disagree about Eowyn being one-dimensional, though if they'd included any of the Houses of Healing and her romance with Faramir, that might've helped develop her further (something to look for on the extended edition, I guess). Arwen, yes, certainly. Galadriel...I'm not sure, though we don't see enough of her to truly explore her character in any depth. Even the extended editions don't begin to scrape the surface of her long and complex story, and it would a be huge tangent to do so anyway.

That response out of the way, RoTK was brilliant and I look forward to seeing it again a zillion times. I can't praise it enough, either visually or dramatically, so I'll quibble more around the margins, but that shouldn't detract an ounce for my overall delight with it.

I did like John Noble's portrayal of Denethor; what I wasn't as much pleased with was the script did to the character. It seemed to make him both more gratuitously villainous and of less stature. I remember a line, perhaps in the movie but definitely in the book, where Gandalf tells Pippin that Denethor is of far greater power than Theoden, even if he is not called a king, and the character as portrayed doesn't really convince me of that. But like I said, no matter.

I would also have liked to see the parley at the Black Gate between the Captains of the West and the Mouth of Sauron. A few minutes of great dialogue there, the arrogance of evil: "it takes more than a sword to make a king," etc. One rumor I've heard is that Jackson was concerned that some of the audience would think the Mouth actually WAS Sauron, back in bodily form; if so, that's a shame. But still, as I said, no big deal.

It might have detracted from the Hobbit's moment, but it also would've been nice (and in keeping with the book) to acknowledge Legolas and Gimli's friendship with their departure on one of the white ships as well.

I expect Cirdan the Shipwright might have a line or two on the extended edition, since one moment he's there in the background of the departure scene and then he's gone. Something about why he gave Narya to Gandalf when the wizard first arrived in the Grey Havens thousands of years earlier, I'd imagine. It'd be fitting for the last Elvish lines to come from him: he's the only one of Galadriel's grandparents' generation left alive in Middle-Earth (an elf old enough to have a beard--even in the prologue 3500 years earlier!), and after he's gone, there will be no more ships and the Elves will be just a memory.

But all such realtively trivial minutiae aside, the film is a masterpiece.

Yes, Dave - there was a very incantatory feel to the battle between Eowyn and the Witch-King in the book. fabulous stuff. She may have taken her helmet off ... I don't remember it, though.

In any film, even the subtlest, you have to use broad brush-strokes.

I think that, considering the time limitations, Jackson was able to get in an amazing amount of the complexity of the characters. If you didn't get every single subtlety of Aragorn's character (impossible to do in even a 4 hour film) - then you still got the idea of his inner conflict, who he WAS.

these were not caricatures. they were people (or elves, or dwarves, whatever.)

maybe i'm off base on Eowyn, in light of all of this. she had as much complexity as Aragorn. she loved Aragorn - but was it really him?? IN the book, isn't she more in love with the "idea" of Aragorn? I got that from her performance in the film, too. That it might have been more of a romanticized ideal of love in her head, rather than the real thing. Their one small scene where he turns her down, and she is devastated told me that.

so there was definitely more than one layer there.

Galadriel's complexity, or what if it there is, seemed to be shown in The Fellowship - when she first sees the ring in Frodo's hand - and transforms - into a power-hungry elf - she has a brief dream of ruling the world - then it subsides - and the LOOK on Cate Blanchett's face - unbelievable. That look said it all. She was horrified at what she had seen, and what she had become. And then she says, "I have passed the test."

she resisted temptation. she knew that the time of the elves was over, then, and she would have to move on.

I think you've the nail on the head there, and it's also why I say some of Eowyn's romance with Faramir COULD have helped to flesh her out a bit more: it's exactly right to say she's more in love with the idea of Aragorn than the man himself and, in a few days, she goes from being spurned by someone she's built up in her mind so much that she can't imagine being with anyone else, rode off to battle in the full expectation (and possibly even hope) of death, come within an inch of that death and survived--undoubtedly to her complete amazement--and lost the uncle who was essentially her father (Eomund, Theoden's brother-in-law, died when she was quite young, if I remember correctly) in the process. We see her happily alongside Faramir at Aragorn's coronation, so it'd certainly be nice to get at least a glimpse of how they got there: other than Sam and Frodo, the two of them are the ones who've really gone through the most in such a short span of time.

Galadriel's full line, one that I knew by heart well before the movies, is: "I pass the test. I shall diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel." And Cate Blanchett, as you said, somehow manages to convey all of that: she's delighted, and horrified, and astounded, and deeply saddened all at once. As one of the Noldor who had fled from Valinor after Morgoth stole the Silmarils (and possibly even been directly involved in the Kinslaying--it's been awhile since I read the Sil, so I don't remember), the Doom of Mandos barred her way back, and she is sensing quite literally that she has passed the test that will allow her to reurn. But it also means that, not only won't she be the Dark Queen she was tempted by the Ring to become, she won't even be able to maintain her little realm untouched by time: even if the Ring is destroyed, the power of Nenya to maintain Lothlorien will go with it. Even the best possible outcome will mean the end of the Elves in Middle-Earth.

So - here is the passage from the book - just to settle all questions. It appears that there is a moment when her helmet comes off - and her hair billows down - but, unlike the movie, she does not whip it off herself.

Then out of the blackness in his mind he thought that he heard Dernhelm speaking; yet now the voice seemed strange, recalling some other voice that he had known.

"Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!"

A cold voice answered: "Come not between the Nazgul and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in they turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and the shriveledc mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye."

A sword rang as it was drawn. "Do what you will; but I will hinder it if I may."

"Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!"

Then Merry heard of all sounds in that hour the strangest. It seemed that Dernhelm laughed, and the clear voice was like the ring of steel. "But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless. For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him."

The winged creature screamed at her, but the Ringwraith made no answer, and was silent, as if in sudden doubt. Very amazement for a moment conquered Merry's fear. He opened his eyes and the blackness was lifted from them. There some paces from him sat the great beast, and all seemed dark about it, and above it loomed the Nazgul Lord like a shadow of despair. A little to the left facing them stood she whom he had called Dernhelm. But the helm of her secrecy had fallen from her, and her bright hair, released from its bonds, gleamed with pale gold upon her shoulders. Her eyes grey as the sea were hard and fell, and yet tears were on her cheek. A sword was in her hand, and she raised her shield against the horror of her enemy's eyes.