The Sheila Variations

WOW. That looks like fun. I'm unfortunately not likely to make it, which sucks.

I'm a John Wayne fan, so anything with him would be a draw. Of the bunch, I think Liberty Valance and Rio Bravo would be my Duke choices if I could only pick a couple. I've seen bits of the Ox-Bow Incident which was fantastic.

I'm ashamed to admit I'd never seen High Noon, but I finally got to it a while back and I'm kicking myself for not seeing it sooner.

Anyway, I don't think you can go too far wrong with anything on the list.

Well you knew I'd weigh in on this one...

Fort Apache and She Wore A Yellow Ribbon - among the best of the Ford/Wayne colloberations.

Rio Bravo - 'cos it's Howard Hawks.

Ride the High Country - since they (inexplicably) aren't showing The Wild Bnuch, this Peckinpah film will do.

Yup - Rio Bravo came up again and again when I was on my Howard Hawks male-female dynamic kick ... Still haven't seen it. So yes, perhaps that one is a must-see.

Love Howard Hawks. Apparently, Howard Hawks and John Wayne were so pissed off by the "un-American" ending of High Noon that this was their answer. Their "take THAT" to High Noon.

I might have made that up. But I don't think so.

I think that's a really paranoid view of the ending of High Noon - but still. Love Howard Hawks. :) He's my favorite director.

From what I understand Rio Bravo was defintely conceived as response to High Noon. But I can't source that.

Should see? ALL of them!

Must see?.. Personally, if I had to pick just one, Bad Day at Black Rock.. Might seem to be stretching the genre slightly.. but Spencer, Ernest and Lee. What other reasons do you need?

And I'd also sneak in to see The Gunfighter

What, they're not running Paint Your Wagon? I'm outraged.

Treasure of the Sierra Madre is one of my favorites - great movie, with the added bonus of seeing Bogart before he became Bogart. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance is excellent, but I can't help but think of it as the poor man's High Noon.

I could never get into Shane, mostly because by the end, I really wanted Shane to flip out and blow the little brat's head off.

I'd never heard about the Rio Bravo/High Noon relationship. It's been so long, I honestly can't remember anything about Rio Bravo... Now I have to Netflix.

All I have to say is it's a good thing I don't live in New York, because things like this would cause me to become penniless and quite possibly homeless. At the very least, I'd end up like one of those people in Cinemania.

Holy crap. I am so there.

It's hard to go wrong with any John Wayne movie, but The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance is my personal fave Duke pic. And it stars John Wayne, Jimmy Stewart, Lee Marvin, and Lee Van Cleef. Talk about a cast. And I enjoyed The Gunfighter.

I have to admit that I have seen only three on that list, but I give very high marks to all of them:

She Wore a Yellow Ribbon
Treasure of Sierra Madre

And the best on the list: Shane

Shane is a great change from the good guy/bad guy standard. Very complex and both sides are right in their own way. Seriously, it has some overtones of Shakespearean tragedy to it (and I'm not even a literary type).

Uh, Dan? There's a reason they're not showing The Wild Bunch. 1924-1962 ;)

Recommend -

The Searchers
Stagecoach
She Wore a Yellow Ribbon
3:10 to Yuma

I saw 'The Ox-Bow Incident' the other day for the first time and was blown away by it.

But the gem is 'Bad Day at Black Rock'

Regarding Rio Bravo/High Noon, Hawks did not like High Noon. He felt that the type of person who would clean up a town would not turn in his hour of need to the ordinary folk for help. Hawks thought that the lawmen of the old west were a breed apart. When they faced danger they would look only to their own kind. He considered the Copper character to be too weak to have been a lawman. Rio Bravo is the way he thought it would go.

Myself, I think High Noon is the better picture and the more fascinating character study, but, that notwithstanding, Hawks was right in his assessment.

If you get a chance, try not to miss The Iron Horse. You could find yourself loving silent movies!

Paul -

Interesting. I personally love the bitter ending of High Noon - with him going off with his wife - because in my opinion everyone in that town let him down. Cowards, all of 'em!! I thought he was justified in walking away.

It's hard to imagine the controversy that that ending generated at the time. I think it's perfect for the movie, it couldn't have ended any other way.

Many of these are great. I love the undercurrents in most Hawks' films. I think you have discussed The Treasure of the Sierra Madre before, so I won't go on about it, but it has some fantastic acting from Bogart and Walter Huston. I have always loved The Searchers, but it has some weak scenes in it. I love Jimmy Stewart, and I really like seeing him portray tougher, grittier characters as he does in Winchester '73. It is an interesting, fast-paced story--Not earth-shattering, but very entertaining. Speaking of Jimmy Stewart, I love The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. Ultimately, it is a sad movie with messages about sacrifice, myth-building, the effect of one event on many lives, the process of civilization, etc. It is one of the greats. The Naked Spur is another Jimmy Stewart classic. While not well-known, it is very good. I haved saved my personal favorite for last. I first saw Shane(and The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance)as a boy, and I continue to see new nuances and subtleties in it today. The book reveals some underlying details that are not immediately apparent in the movie, but the movie rises to the level of greatness, in my opinion. There are so many indelible scenes in my mind. Jack Palance's character, Wilson, basically defines the Western gunslinger. Watch the scene where Shane shows Joey how to use a gun, and Marion Starrett arrives. There are many things going on in that scene. I read where they recorded the sound of the gun inside a barrel to amplify the sound--it is quite effective. The underlying attraction between Shane and Marion is perfectly portrayed. I doubt that a movie made today would have the confidence or patience to be so subtle with a crucial plot line. As I am writing this, I realize I like everything about this movie. The dialog is incredible. Torrey's murder is a Western classic that Clint Eastwood payed homage to in Pale Rider(a retelling of Shane, in many ways). There are several symbolic fights, including one with a tree stump. The scene where Starrett prepares to enter town to confront Wilson and certain death is incredible. Starrett tells his wife, "...I'm kinda slow sometimes, Marion, but I see things. I know that, if anything happened to me that you'd be took care of, took care of better than I could do it myself. I never thought I'd live to hear myself say that, but I guess now's a pretty good time to lay things bare. ...Honey, you're the most honest and the finest girl that ever lived and I couldn't do what I gotta do if I hadn't always knowed that I could trust ya." What can I say? Wow. My wife agrees with some here that Joey's plaintive cries at the end of the movie are obnoxious, but I think it is one of the great movie ends of all time. Shane rides off, always the outsider, on the same trail he took into town. Joey is the one to see him leave, as he saw him enter at the beginning of the movie. "Pa's got things for you to do, and Mother WANTS you. I know she does. Shane. Shane! Come back. Bye, Shane. One of the all-time greats. Sorry for the long post, but I could go on for an hour about Shane--God help me.

It wasn't the ending that bothered Hawks, it was the premise that underlined it. I loved that movie, in fact more than Rio Bravo, but I think Hawks is right. Either the Gary Cooper character wouldn't have been able to clean-up the town in the first place, or he wouldn't have asked the normal town folk to help him. Hawks' problem was in the consistency of the character study. The west was not tamed by men like that portrayed by Coop.

But try not to miss Iron Horse, John Ford's first epic western. It's a bit long, but it's worth it. There is an argument that the art of acting peaked in the 1920's, and some of those silent pictures are fantastic. I wouldn't put Iron Horse up there with Broken Blossoms, but it's very good -- and it's history both in its subject and in its very existence.

One more thought about Shane. As I said of the relationship between Shane and Marion, modern movies rarely have the courage to trust the audience to figure certain things out for themselves. In Pale Rider, Eastwood consummates the attraction between the main character and his friend's wife. It isn't enough for modern audiences that the attraction exists, it has to lead to physical expression. We can argue which is more effective, but I like the way it is handled in Shane much better.

Paul - I think the Gary Cooper character is even more admirable than your conventional hero because of what he does. The lone man against the enemy. Surrounded by cowards who force him to fight alone.

And I don't care whether or not the West was tamed by folks like him. That doesn't matter to me at all. I mean, it does, in terms of history - but not in terms of movie-making.

John Wayne said the ending was 'un-American' - of that I am sure!

Again, I really don't care - I love Hawks and John Wayne - they're the best, but I do think they were a bit tetchy. Shall we say.

DBW: It is certainly one of the greatest movie endings ever. Obnoxious or not ... it makes an indelible impression.

I'm merely relaying what Hawks is alleged to have said about the movie. I love High Noon. I have it on DVD and I watch it regularly. I said above that it's a great movie and a great character study -- I merely add that the inconsistency pointed out by Hawks in the characterization is not without merit.

However, my main point was in response to your request that we recommend which ones to see. GO SEE IRON HORSE -- too many people in the modern world have forgotten about silent film. It's not jiggly cameras and amateur acting. John Ford knew how to make movies back then too.

Oh ... Paul, I know. If it sounds like I'm arguing with your point, I'm not. I know what Howard Hawks is supposed to have said ... er - I brought it up?? Member?

Just givin' my little ol' opinion here.

Let's see. Iron Horse. That is playing next Monday. In a double feature with Law and Order.

I feel like a kid in a candy store!!

Except right now, I have to say, I'm leaning toward the Shane/High Noon double feature - which is going on this weekend. grrrr. Must I choose???

And also - to go see Rio Bravo next Wednesday.

So that would mean:

This weekend: Shane and High Noon
Monday: Iron Horse and Law and Order
Wednesday: Rio Bravo

Finances dictate I can't go to all of them. So now I have some really serious decisions I have to make.

I'll send you a check--go see Shane.

heh heh heh

DBW -

That reminds me: I'm about to post a funny story about Shane. Look for it!