The Sheila Variations

Yeah, it's funny, I've been writing directly about politics a bit (rather than my more usual historical view stuff) and I was thinking I'm glad that's not exactly my focus anymore, because it's quite tension-producing. Which I used to like, but which seems bothersome now.

Not that I'll steer clear of it altogether, just that I'm glad it's not my focus. I feel I have some things to say that please no one, which makes me compelled to write about them in a way, but which can make me quite tense because I'm not following a party line or other people's talking points, so have little back-up.

I hate what's happened to political discourse. I don't even TALK politics any more, because things can get so ugly.

In my ideal universe, when two people who didn't agree politically met at a party or somewhere, the discussion would go something like:

A: "I don't like what the current president is doing about xyz."

B: "Really? I think he's doing a good job, and here are my reasons...."

A: "Okay, you make some good points, but what about...."

B: "Well, I think...."

A: "I'm sorry, but I just don't agree, my life experience suggests nmop instead."

B: "Ah, well, I suppose it depends on how you look at it. I do think the current president could improve on klm..."

A: "Yeah, that's true."

And so on. Instead, A will start off saying something like "I simply cannot UNDERSTAND the level of idiocy it took for someone to vote for the current president" and then B, who voted for him/her, will say "Yeah? Well, I guess that's how someone with no conception of what life really is like would think" or worse, and they'd both huff off to find someone who believes exactly like them. So we become more and more polarized, because of unwillingness or inability to admit that (a) we might be wrong on some of the assumptions that lead to our points of view or (b) that different people may see the same problem or issue in different ways.

Yup. Yup. Yup.

I post poilitical stuff when I feel like it, but mostly I post stuff about my freaked out life, history, and Paula Abdul. I mean.....c'mon. There's enough satire right there to last 17 lifetimes. I just don't have time to argue my political viewpoint. I'm right, you're wrong, if we're going to do that, I want to see your face so I know it's not getting too serious.

Life's too short. And so is Paula.

I suspect Mr. Greenburg would have had more responses to his guest-blogging posts if he hadn't inadvertently disabled comments on some. Sometimes there is a pretty silly reason why something doesn't work.

If comments in reply to political posts annoy you, why don't you turn off the comments for these posts? Some of the best (or at least my favorite) political blogs don't have comments - and for those that do I don't usually read the comments anyway as they are so often so much less thoughtful than the post.

Kevin - yeah, I have thought of that. If I ever feel like jumping into the fray again, I'll probably close comments. When I first started blogging on blog-spot, there were no comments, so I could rant and rave on my soapbox without having to answer to anyone. Kind of a pleasure, and one of the reasons I started up the blog in the first place. Not to have a CONVERSATION but so I could do a MONOLOGUE.

Don't get me wrong - I love the conversation for the most part - but only when I'm talking about movies, books, or my own life. NOT politics.

Hmmm, it looks like Glenn Reynolds must have linked to this - a quick glimpse at the site meter tells me so. Hello, Instapundit readers!!

I'M OUTRAGED!

MORE SKIN ON HBO!

Well, here goes--I am sure this doesn't surprise you, Sheila, but a I disagree strongly. As someone who reads many political blogs, magazines, essays, think-tank releases, etc., I completely understand anyone's dismay and disgust over the level of invective in political discourse. All of us have heard the advice, "Never discuss politics or religion." I don't agree with that at all--I would amend it to, "Avoid those subjects if you can't approach them with mutual respect and sober, open-minded reflection. Those are the key ingedients that are missing, and I will grant you that they seem in particular short supply right now. As a conservative whose dearest friends are mostly life-long liberals, I have always believed if people of differing views who care about each other and are capable of respectful discourse don't discuss politics and religion, how are any of us ever going to learn anything. Very little intellectual progress is made if people only read and listen to opinions with which they already agree. I know that allowing comments on a blog invites the wackadoodles from both sides to vent their spleen, but when thoughtful, decent people like yourself and most of your regular readers don't share their differing views with one another, that is everyone's loss--in my opinion. To me, there is nothing more exciting or enlightening than to hear someone give a thoughtful, measured defense of a view I don't share. When "the other side" is presented in a way that its validity is apparent, then I feel I benefit. The problem with today's environment is the adherence to emotion over reason, to advocacy and agenda over facts. When reasonable people exempt themselves from the conversation, we are all lessened. Of course, I respect your right to decide what your blog is, and what you choose to discuss here. As someone who found your perspective on politics fresh and educational right from the start--even though we didn't agree on everything--I miss that part of your voice. On the political spectrum, most people don't really fit into the box of easy characterizations. We all have diverse backgrounds and experiences which influence our political and life philosophies. Those with political agendas and overwrought emotional connections to advocacy enjoy blurring the truth about average Americans--we all have a lot more in common than we have in conflict.

David:

I discuss politics with my friends, and my relatives, if it comes up. I like to do that. Because I KNOW them, and I know that we can actually HEAR one another. And believe me - there is very little political agreement between me and my friends. But I do not choose to subject myself to the abuse of STRANGERS on the 'Net.

Politics and history and current events are highly fascinating - but not in this format. For me. I like the one on one, the give and take, and frankly - I have no desire to spend my time weeding out the dipshits who have no idea how to have an intelligent conversation.

I'm not sure what you're reacting to here. You seem to be hearing something I am not saying. Half the blogs on my blog-roll are political blogs, I still read them like an addict, but I rarely comment.

Uhm - that's my choice.

It's my blog and I prefer to spend my time writing about stuff that I feckin' enjoy - which is movies, books, my family. Life's too short.

Your comment annoys me - you're missing my point, which seems rather silly - because it's such a simple post. I DON'T ENJOY WRITING ABOUT POLITICS ON MY BLOG. I never said "don't discuss politics or religion". I said I choose to not do so on my blog, and also - I can't stand the level of discourse these days on most blogs.

Go ahead and "disagree strongly" ... with ... ehm ... what? My opinion on how I want to run my own blog? What I find stupid and annoying about bloggers (and commenters) who take themselves so fucking seriously?

There are PLENTY of blogs to serve everybody's tastes.

I still feel like you have completely missed the point of my post.

And DBW: I just re-read my post again ... and am still confused as to why you have chosen to lecture me on how we don't fit into easy characterizations, etc. Uhm ... that's exactly my point, no, people do not fit in to easy characterizations.

But that sort of grey area is, in general, non-existant in political blogging. I completely agree with Greenberg - most of it has devolved into polarized group-think.

If I disagree with a blogger's post ... I hesitate to put in my two cents (especially if they're conservative)... because every time I have done so (and I'm always polite - always in a: "Hmm, this is how I see it ...") - I have been fucking crucified. I've got some conservative views, but most of my views are liberal - but you try explaining your nice little "people don't fit into categorizations" story to some of these people. These people live and die by their categories (at least on the Internet) and if someone comes in and says, "Hm, here's how I see it ..." it's a feeding frenzy. People get MEAN, man, they get MEAN. People have said shit to me they would never say to my face, and I no longer visit a ton of blogs that I actually enjoy because I can't stand that kind of conversation.

The Internet makes it much easier for people to act out, be aggressive, shout "SHUT UP", etc. Manners disintegrate.

So no. I no longer choose to let people like that into my life, or take up space in my brain. It's not. fucking. worth it. I'll talk about politics with my friends, who are much more able to listen, and ask questions, where they actually, uhm, have a sense of humor, and aren't so sure they're fucking RIGHT, where we can go back and forth, and hash stuff out like ... uhm ... A CONVERSATION. Where different views are presented! I enjoy that very much, and I think the blogs that offer that kind of forum are slim pickins indeed.

I mean, the last couple of times I have posted about politics I have had to seriously reprimand a couple of different commenters for their lack of civility. And DBW: these are not "wackadoodles" from out of nowhere. These are people who read my blog regularly.

So I will not have it. I'm probably more sensitive to it than other bloggers, but who cares. IT'S MY BLOG and I'll run it how I see fit.

Your response feels very kneejerk to me. I wonder if it's because it sounds like I'm criticizing conservatives (because it's Dan Drezner's commenters who I posted about) ... Well, no. I'm not criticizing conservatives.

All I meant from the post (duh) is: I can't stand the level of political discourse on the Internet, and so I choose not to discuss politics on my blog.

The end.

Hey, I was neither lecturing you nor arguing with you. As I said, I respect your right to choose to do with your blog as you see fit. I agree with your assessment of political dialog. All I was saying is when reasonable people cede the discussion to the less-than-reasonable, it isn't a victory for the meaningful exchange of ideas. That, and I personally miss your thoughts on politics. That is all I meant. I certainly didn't intend to "piss" you off, or insist that you do anything on your blog you don't want to do. Given our past correspondence, you should know that I would be the last person to tell you what to do here--it is none of my business. Again, all I meant to say is losing thoughtful voices on either side of the political dividing line, and allowing the wingnuts to monopolize the discussion, is a sorry state of affairs.

I just re-read your post, and you are correct--I was responding to something that isn't there. Somehow, I initially read it to say you felt it was better to stay away from political commentary, and let the nutcases have it. So--mea culpa. I feel that the sober, reflective voices on both sides are being drowned out and bullied by the rabid agenda-hounds. They seem to have pushed you out of the public discussion in utter disgust. When that happens, it is a bad thing--IN MY OPINION. We need all the sober voices we can find. Now I suppose you will be pissed at me because I called you "sober."

Damn--you are really giving it to me. You amended your comment after I had re-commented. It has nothing to do with you criticizing conservatives. God knows, there are many of them who deserve it. You do what you want here, and I will shut up. However, I continue to believe it is a bad thing when thoughtful people are browbeaten into remaining quiet about important matters, BUT I acknowledge it is not your responsibility to please me or anyone other than yourself on your personal blog on which you can say what you want and not say what you don't want no matter how many fools like me wish you would do otherwise and if we had half your energy and courage we would start our own blogs and subject ourselves to the kind of attacks of which you have grown understandably tired and I personally pledge never to pester you with my own personal political wishlist or imply you should do this or that in your posts which despite my seeming protests to the contrary I continue to enjoy a great deal and would miss greatly if you were to cease.

Excellent sentence! Impressive!

Yes - I amended the comment, I fired it off so fast.

Yeah, it's a bummer to hold back - in a topic that interests me - you and I, for example, have had many cool conversations, where we might differ, but who the heck cares ... it's all very interesting, and enlightening - I LOVE THAT - but like I said in the post: I don't enjoy fighting about OPINIONS. No. Disagreeing, sure - but fighting? With someone who refuses to see my side, or even LISTEN? Fighting about opinions would be fine if it could go the way of Ricki's comment above - but 9 times out of 10 that is not what I have encountered on the Internet, where communication is more blunted, and lacking the subtlety of body language, whatever.

Again, this is a personal preference. A lot of bloggers LOVE the fight. That's perfectly fine, and I enjoy a lot of those blogs. But I would never enjoy hosting a party like that. Not my thing.

I made the mistake of dipping into a conversation about the Vagina Monologues on a good friend of mine's blog - and give my own perspective. It was a bit different from what everybody else was saying (uhm, RANTING) ... and I hesitated before hitting Send. I want to make it clear that I was polite, and prefaced it with: "I guess my perspective on this whole thing is ..." It didn't fucking matter, and I should have fucking known better. Never again. They were rude fucking assholes who leapt all over me, and fuck THEM.

Granted, I'm sensitive. I get my feelings hurt. I admit it. i don't like getting my feelings hurt, especially when I take care to make my comment in a respectful "this is just how it is for me" way. People have lost the fucking plot.

HENCE; I don't choose to throw my voice into the fray where people are going to be fucking mean and disrespectful.

But anyway. You know I dig you, DBW. That should never be in doubt. :)

And you're right, DBW: The loud lunatics have shoved people like me out of the way. I will not fight with them. What's the point??

I'll fight with you any day. But life's too short to just be screamed at on my own damn blog. Or to be told how stupid I am.

I have been called many things in my life when people are mad at me (people who actually KNOW me, I mean, in real life). Things that I can accept are true. But I have never been called "stupid" until I got a blog.

The Winds of Change guys linked to one of my posts in an approving way (about South Park conservatives), and everyone filled up the comments with: "She's a moron, she's stupid." Huh?

Stupid??? These people don't know me. I can accept that I am many things that are not cool, but I am not, nor have I ever been, stupid.

You dig me? Yeah, BABY! To quickly break my pledge from above, maybe you could do a post about that.

Seriously, I think I know how you feel. It is depressing to bend over backwards to be polite and respectful of someone else's opinion, and then have them stomp all over yours--believe me, I know what that is like. In the fantasy world, the internet would be more full of the respectful exchange of ideas than it is. There are little pockets here and there, oases in the desert, but certainly not enough for this dedicated conversationalist. In my opinion, anyone unwilling to entertain the thought that they might be wrong about some things, is frightfully close-minded, and unlikely to benefit from reasoned discourse anyway.