Open Thread: Supernatural, new episode

Posted on March 8, 2018 by sheila

You said it, pal.

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20 Responses to Open Thread: Supernatural, new episode

  1. Jessie says:
    March 9, 2018 at 12:03 am

    Astor and Greenstreet, har de har har

    I could and probably will quibble rather a bit (particularly about the thematic throughline attempt of noir cynicism that felt very awkward and inorganic to me), but it was a whole episode in which Sam and Dean EXISTED, and there was the red cheesecloth shirt and an up-and-coming like navy-and-green cheesecloth shirt contender, and there were several sections where I had to rewind to catch the dialogue because the faces were so overwhelming, so hey, I guess I’m happy!

    Reply
    • sheila says:
      March 9, 2018 at 8:11 am

      Jessie – hahahaha I agree. I wish they had gone more explicit stylistically with the noir stuff – there was way too much camera-on-the-floor-staring-up POVs – and I don’t understand that choice in general – but this was fun.

      One of the main reasons I liked it was its totally random “what the hell are we dealing with” Russian-nesting-doll structure. It was like one city block was filled with 15 different groups all vying for this one object – which of course is what the Maltese Falcon is all about.

      So that was funny and kind of fun. And yes: instead of seeming peripheral, Sam and Dean were central. Some of the schtick didn’t work – there was one exchange as they got out of the handcuffs in the hotel room that didn’t work for me – and it’s weird – it feels like if they had taken one more pass at that exchange something more interesting/funny would have happened – what I was watching felt like a first draft, a rehearsal – but then, there were some moments that were great, lots of good interaction between them.

      And I feel strangely relieved that the cute girl reading about demons in the coffee shop was nothing more than a cute girl reading about demons in the coffee shop. She wasn’t a spy, or a demon in disguise, or a temptress from the Underworld trying to suck him in through sexuality. She was what she appeared to be, a cute girl reading about demons who looked up at him and was (understandably) like: “OMG YOU’RE HOT SIT HERE WITH ME.”

      I liked the quiet sadness of the exchange at the end. Although my God the bunker is KILLING ME. Every episode starts now with the guys in the bunker, eating, drinking coffee, having all the time/space/comfort in the world, with leftovers in the fridge even. But anyway: Jared is so OPEN. It’s like all he has to do is inhale, and all of these feelings come up – which is what happened in that scene.

      And Dean’s reaction – I clenched up, waiting for the “Hey, man, we do what we do, right? We save the world. It’s what we do. The family business” bullshit that has infiltrated the show – but it didn’t come. Instead was this quiet space of listening and thoughtfulness.

      So I liked that.

      I enjoyed the “broad” aspects of it, too. The unrealistic aspects. A “mob boss of Seattle” who lives in a red and gold palace. hahaha Who’s a “good Catholic.” A rich man eating donuts in HIS palace, speaking with a sinister British accent. And the casting of Miss Astor was great: she has a face from the 1940s, same facial structure as Mary Astor. Same predatory sexuality.

      Reply
  2. Jessie says:
    March 9, 2018 at 12:16 am

    If Scarpetti was a reference to the Spats in Some Like It Hot, all I can say is, biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig missed opportunity.

    Reply
  3. Barb says:
    March 9, 2018 at 11:20 am

    I thought this one was a blast! I loved all the noir elements, the Sidney Greenstreet and Mary Astor homages, the music and some of the camera angles. Loved the twist of who the holy man was; this felt like classic SPN “make it up as you go along” magic.

    It really felt to me like JA and JP were sinking their teeth into this one, too. That scene with the mob boss–Dean was playing a part, standing up to that guy. He knew he’d stepped into a movie scene, and he was loving every minute.

    And the final scene, letting them just have that space to listen and respond, with painful honesty, to each other. Letting the actors inhabit that. These are the moments that keep us coming back, right?

    Reply
    • sheila says:
      March 9, 2018 at 11:35 am

      Yes, I thought the last scene was wonderful. Quiet, not pushed.

      It was nice to see some SCHTICK too. The show really falls apart when it gets self-serious. SERIOUS is one thing, but self-serious is another!

      I thought the casting was great too – from Mary Astor to the priest to the Mafia thugs surrounding the boss. Central Casting.

      At first I was disheartened by yet another huge shoot-out with human beings – ugh – I’m still not crazy about it – but at least it seemed to come from the world of the episode, the self-contained world of the huge Mafia problem …. in Seattle. Ha. Because we all know Seattle has been ravaged by mob wars. I still think every shootout with human beings should be thought about really long and hard – do we need to do this? can we find another way out of it? – human shootouts only started coming into play last season – there were so many of them. So I guess I just feel burned.

      But this one came out of the crime-movie playbook the episode was operating in. so I’ll accept it (cautiously).

      I’m so glad the priest didn’t die! He was wonderful.

      Reply
      • sheila says:
        March 9, 2018 at 11:38 am

        and Dean running forward shooting with two guns! That was pure Godfather – there was a stylization to the sequence, calling to mind Marlon Brando being killed on the sidewalk, etc. – which sat better with me than Dean and Sam hiding behind trees and picking off shots at SWAT team commandos.

        Reply
  4. Pat says:
    March 9, 2018 at 6:06 pm

    I liked this one a lot – I appreciated the lighter tone of the caper and the use of the noir genre was an interesting format for this show. Another thing that helped push this up the ladder – the brothers looked pretty dope in their suits and overcoats.

    Why do I never pick up on the most obvious clues – I didn’t get that the priest would turn out to be the ‘holy man’ until he mentioned it at the end of the episode. Yeesh.

    Reply
  5. Melanie Rice says:
    March 12, 2018 at 10:13 am

    Ditto, everyone! I enjoyed the atmospheric quality of the noir – fog everywhere, the hotel with 15 watt bulbs in every fixture, the back alleys, and, yes, the overcoats! It was like there are no actual streets or modern buildings in Seattle, just fog-filled alleyways, art deco hotels, & decrepit mob-boss mansions. I enjoyed it thoroughly.

    I love Massi Furlon as the turtleneck-wearing, incognito priest! I picked up pretty quickly that he would be the holy man, but I was sure he was gonna die. I’m so glad he didn’t!

    I also loved the bit with the girl in the coffee shop. It took me back to early seasons to see Sam pulling his brother back to the case. I tend to think of Dean as the one who has kept Sam tied to “the life”, but when he is focused, Sam keeps Dean on a pretty short leash. Who knows, Dean might have drifted off into normal life years ago – with guitar teacher girl, with Cassie, with medium Melanie, with Tina the 14 year old lush, or coffee shop reader lady – if Dad or Sam hadn’t constantly pulled him back in. If Sam ever left the life it would only be after a careful, agonizing, soul searching choice. On the other hand I think Dean, while he would never willingly leave, I can see him getting sucked into a different life (what is normal -amirite?) and months later thinking, “wow, I haven’t killed a monster in ages.” Except for Sam. That was a bit of a rabbit hole I went down there…

    Anywhoo, I also enjoyed the final, thought-filled exchange between Sam & Dean. It carried the foggy, atmospheric melancholy of the Seattle streets with it.

    Reply
    • Lyrie says:
      March 12, 2018 at 6:39 pm

      This is a great rabbit hole, Melanie. I can totally see what you are talking about. Dean could have stayed a PA in Hollywood! While Sam was working his way up on the social ladder going to Stanford, Dean has something very fluid, he can adapt, get sucked in, yeah!

      Reply
    • sheila says:
      March 13, 2018 at 11:14 am

      Melanie – I like the rabbit hole too!

      Dean’s adaptability may be its own problem – learn boundaries! – but yes, he has that fluidity to him – it’s fun when Sam is the one who has to pull him back.

      Reply
  6. Lyrie says:
    March 12, 2018 at 7:01 pm

    I liked coffee shop girl too. I don’t think I’d be so worried about those guys’ sex lives if I didn’t hear Sheila in my head say “I’m worried about these guys’ sex lives.” I am currently re-watching season 12 (sigh), and in Regarding Dean, Dean mentions that he hasn’t had sex in he doesn’t know how long and… yeah, now I’m worried too. When did that happen – or rather stop happening? And it’s not so much that we saw them before, but rather it was part of all the off-screen life that was suggested. All of this is gone, now.

    It makes me sad how we take whatever is fine because it’s better than shitty. Sure, the back alleys looked nice (Hey, Amanda Tapping, good job), but some things were really clunky, I didn’t find it held together super well overall. And I completely zoned out during the shootout.

    That last scene was beautiful. Jared Padalecki breaks my heart. Dean’s “I have faith” was interesting. Although I had a feeling he was saying that to reassure Sam, I also saw it as some sort of callback to the last scene of Houses of the Holy. Thoughts?

    Reply
    • sheila says:
      March 13, 2018 at 11:31 am

      // if I didn’t hear Sheila in my head say “I’m worried about these guys’ sex lives.” //

      hahahahaha I am so sorry.

      // When did that happen – or rather stop happening? And it’s not so much that we saw them before, but rather it was part of all the off-screen life that was suggested. All of this is gone, now. //

      I know.

      It was fully present in Season 11.

      We had Piper. We had Amara. Something was being tapped into – the whole Arc was about yearning for this female force – sure, she was “darkness” – but she had some kind of pull that was erotic.

      Then Mom returned.

      And Mom dried up the sex drive.

      The couple of times in Season 12 – or maybe it was just once? I’ve blocked it out – when Dean had a “hookup” – it was somehow made … cutesy? There was a coyness to it – which made it seem lecherous, as opposed to a healthy outlet.

      I’m not explaining myself well. I love how the show treats hookups as a valid healthy physical outlet – people need sunshine, food, sex. Nobody is getting “used” in these hookups. Piper was totally in charge of herself. Dean was happy. Sam lets out a sigh saying “I needed that.” It’s all so FRANK about sexual expression.

      I think it’s the lack of that I reacted to in Season 12 – which was completely sexless. In Season 12, “sex” came out as “hot SWAT outfits” and “hot gadgetry” – which is the adolescent boys’ version of what is “sexy.” I was completely chagrined to see it enter into the ADULT world of Supernatural. I say it’s adult because of its attitude towards sex – not the truly subversive stuff like Truckstop-Hooker-Dean, etc. hahaha – but its acknowledgement that hooking up is fun, and if you’re two consenting adults, no shame in it. On either side.

      Mary’s return put a damper on sexuality. Season 12 is probably fresher to you since you’re re-watching it – anything else? “Regarding Dean” was promising – especially with the girl who accidentally “roofied” Dean on his crazy night. That was recognizable Supernatural sexuality. At first, she’s so PSYCHED to see that hot guy she hooked up with. Then he doesn’t know her and she’s FURIOUS. (Not ashamed. But furious. Huge difference.) Then when she realizes he remembers nothing, she gets all upset that she “used” him – and Dean gets turned on. hahahaha It’s great!

      But yeah … everything else, these guys’ sex drives, don’t exist anymore. Which is why I loved the demon girl.

      For example: rockabilly undertaker. There was a moment – a breath of a moment – where you could see Sam going “Huh. Look at this woman” with appreciation. In an earlier season that “moment” would have been explored. Not necessarily in a “madison” way – but at least in an acknowledgement that he is an adult person who HAS a sexuality. Missed opportunities abound.

      // t makes me sad how we take whatever is fine because it’s better than shitty. //

      I feel this way too.

      // Although I had a feeling he was saying that to reassure Sam, I also saw it as some sort of callback to the last scene of Houses of the Holy. //

      I have been thinking about this. It definitely was a “callback” to Houses of the Holy – but what I’ve been wondering is … well, in Houses of the Holy that final scene turns out to be really prophetic, considering what’s coming a 2 seasons later (angels). And it looped into some larger character arc – and season arc.

      What does the final scene we just saw have to do with?

      I’m not saying that in a contemptuous way – I’m truly asking.

      It was a lovely moment – and different in style/mood than we’ve seen in a while. I was so afraid Dean would give his normal pep talk with the “it’s what we do” bullshit – but instead we got that thoughtful listening etc.

      But is it leading anywhere? I suppose we can’t know the answer. One thing I have noticed is that even though certain episodes this season have really worked for me – (even though they have a disturbing tendency to idolize Sam and Dean) – I am unable to keep the overall Arc in my mind. I’m not sure what’s happening. There’s a lot going on. Jack. Mom. Big Daddy. (Asmodeus). And … more stuff?

      In one way – I really like that there’s not just one Big Bad. It’s allowed them more leeway episodically. Some of the pressure is off. Not every single episode is plot-driven.

      But in another way …. it makes things go a little bit out of focus.

      So his “I have faith” … what is that connected to? Anything?

      I think my issue is the lack of internal conflict – or, there IS conflict – but it’s just been repeated ad nauseum in too many episodes so I tune it out. Sam: “We have to believe in Jack.” “He’s a monster.” “He’s not.” “We have to find Mom.” “He can help us.” and … it all starts sounding like “blah blah blah”. I’m re-watching Season 3 right now – and the conflict between Sam and Dean is maintained and explored in episode after episode after episode – and it NEVER feels repetitive because it keeps changing, the boundaries keep shifting – there are moments of accord, of breakthroughs – followed by retreats. It’s so human – and it feels so realistic. It also means that never ONCE are our eyes led away from Sam and Dean.

      Granted, in Season 3, there is no Big Bad. The whole thing is about staving off Dean’s crossroads deal – so the pressure REALLY was off.

      I have no idea if any of this makes sense but I am pressing Post.

      Reply
      • Lyrie says:
        March 13, 2018 at 10:30 pm

        //And Mom dried up the sex drive.//
        Which is so dumb – again, running from conflict. How do you deal with women when Mom is here and that brings you back to being a little boy? How do you deal with being with women who are, what, 10 years younger than your mother? (in theory)
        In season 12, all we got was Mary and Twatt – which, ew. And what did it tell us on Mary Winchester? Not much. Nothing that had not already been literally told: she wants it all, she’s a mother and a hunter and a woman and blahblahbhaaaaah
        I know what you mean! Porn, masturbation, hookup: anything that feels good and does not hurt anyone is good. It’s something I loved about the show too, that frank and honest attitude. I was so pissed they killed retro redhead in this episode. I would have liked to see how much willing to get “used” Sam would have been – he seemed much more willing than with the two women in Ask Jeeves, ha!
        //“Regarding Dean” was promising – especially with the girl who accidentally “roofied” Dean on his crazy night. //
        Yes, I liked this episode more on my re-watch – sadly I think it’s because I know how much the rest of the season sucks, but also that and JA and JP are so great. And yes, the whole arc of this woman is so funny!
        // In one way – I really like that there’s not just one Big Bad. It’s allowed them more leeway episodically. Some of the pressure is off. Not every single episode is plot-driven.
        But in another way …. it makes things go a little bit out of focus.//
        It is something I really loved in season 10, too. It was all about MOTW and how do the brothers coped with Dean having been a demon, and this constant threat. It was really interesting: there were no Big Bad but the stakes were high where it counts – emotionally. This season I have no idea what is going on, but I also give absolutely no fucks. There are several Medium Bads, and whether they’re military-angels in a Doctor Who quarry or Crowley-in-white or Lucifer: I. do. not. care.
        So…
        //his “I have faith” … what is that connected to? Anything?//
        I’ve been trying really hard not to think about that too much, because I am afraid that just like the Colt, they’re taking something important for the show and emptying it of its meaning. I really hope it’s not the case, but after the Colt, after Eileen, I don’t trust them.
        // I have no idea if any of this makes sense but I am pressing Post. //
        Me, every time I post something.

        Reply
  7. Melanie says:
    March 12, 2018 at 10:25 pm

    I was thinking about the “Father ghost angel” episode and didn’t even realize it was Houses of the Holy! I really like the few times that Dean dismisses ‘blind faith’ or the unexplainable actions of a person of faith like in that episode, or Layla in Faith, or Father Camilleri, with his ‘God doesn’t care’ bluster, but then he comes around to a quiet, somewhat grudging recognition of his own mustard seed of faith. I believe his bluster is his defence against being hurt or disappointed. Dean draws a great deal of his identity from the fact that he knows what’s really going on. He knows about monsters and how to kill them. He knows god and his sister. He’s the guy who explains the unexplainable. So when things happen that defy his understanding it is a little humbling. It makes him take a step back and think. I don’t think he said it to reassure Sam at all. It’s a very relatable reaction to the question of faith and I’m glad when they go there. After all, most of the rituals and “spells” they use were developed by persons of faith (obviously not the Men of Letters) to fight evil in the world.

    Reply
    • sheila says:
      March 13, 2018 at 11:33 am

      The way Jensen played it – it was like he was having a moment with himself. Not with Sam. Or, Sam was the launchpad for his own contemplation.

      Whatever was going on there was really private.

      Reply
  8. Melanie says:
    March 13, 2018 at 4:35 pm

    I think it’s a call back to episode 1 of this season where Dean goes behind the outhouse at the gas station, prays, then smashes his fist into the wall and tells Sam it’s nothing. He doesn’t like waiting to hear the answer when he does go out on a faith limb. This very private moment is a rare gem of introspection that we only glimpse of Dean from time to time and not one he shares even with Sam. I hope that they don’t just let this drop like some other loose ends I can think of. It was a poignant, but lovely moment.

    .

    Reply

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