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1. Christopher says:

   June 4, 2020 at 2:02 pm

   I hope that you don’t consider this too astray from your post, but at least one commenter would be very interested in your opinions on Anne Applebaum’s books if you ever have the chance or interest in that subject.

   When I finished her last book about Ukraine, I was curious about your thoughts, as I know you know more about that period than me. No pressure or obligation–just letting you know that there’s one vote for a future bookshelf post.

   Reply
   • sheila says:

     June 4, 2020 at 3:02 pm

     Christopher – of course – this is one of my pet topics and I do love to discuss it. Thanks!

     The book that launched her is Gulag – have you read that one? It won the Pulitzer Prize. Because of how secretive the Soviets were, we are STILL learning about how the gulag operated – and this is one of the best I’ve read (outside Solzhenitsyn’s “memoir” Gulag Archipelago).

     Since then she has published the book about the famine – and also published an oral history called “voices from the Gulag” – another helpful book, first-person accounts of the horrors. I think somehow we – as in the West – still don’t really have a handle of the SCOPE of this thing (in general – most people, in other words) – and she has done a lot to bring it to the surface. Solzhenitsyn is one-of-a-kind but it’s a huge multi-volume book and maybe people don’t want to read it? I tore through it, but that’s just me!

     What I am looking forward to – whenever it happens – is a collection of all the things she’s written for The Atlantic, The Washington Post, The New Yorker, and etc. She’s one of those writers where I drop everything and get a cup of coffee for the read!

     What are your thoughts on the famine book? Robert Conquest – THE chronicler of Soviet Terror – wrote a book about the famine in Ukraine – called Harvest of Sorrow. He took on the topic of Soviet terror and broke it down into different topics spread out through different books – the Terror and show trials of the 1930s is one book (his most famous), but then he wrote a book on the murder of Kirov, which gave Stalin the excuse to kill literally millions of people as part of various “conspiracies” – we still don’t know who really gave the order to kill Kirov since Stalin covered his tracks (a recent good book about this is called, wait for it, Who Killed Kirov?) And then Conquest wrote a book called Stalin: Breaker of Nations – which is about how Stalin moved entire populations around, in order to create disorientation, terror, and hence obedience/submission. If you’re not familiar with Conquest (what a name) and are interested in the subject of Soviet tyranny, he’s really the “one to beat”.

     Applebaum speaks Russian, Polish and English – which helps. She can dig into archives and read them herself. And she really really gets oppression.

     So! To boil this all down – I recommend her book on the Gulag.

     Reply
     • sheila says:

       June 4, 2020 at 3:05 pm

       and off topic is just fine as long as it’s not “YOU SUCK.” lol

       Reply
       • Christopher says:

         June 4, 2020 at 8:05 pm

         Thank you very much for the detailed reply! I really appreciate it.

         I’ve only read Red Famine but I decided to pick up her earlier books based on it. One way I can describe my experience reading that book: I recognized suddenly—in the middle of having drinks—that I really needed to stop talking about the Holodomor with everyone I meet.

         On the book itself, I was impressed with her ability to simultaneously offer something for the general political reader while still remaining comprehensive and providing original, foundational research. That’s a difficult task with such a complicated topic. She understands storytelling, and understands how to present difficult or technical information through a narrative.

         I might continue with Between East & West, as I’ve spent a good amount of time in the region, and I’m curious about her earlier writings. But based on what you wrote and Red Famine, I will probably also read Gulag.

         Rather than jumping around too much, I typically like to read a few books by the same author in a row. I think that gives me a better understanding of their process—especially if you can place their books within some theme or subject.

         You asked about Robert Conquest, who is someone that I should know more about. My only connection to his work was when I realized years ago that Christopher Hitchens had referenced him so many times in his work—sometimes in praise, sometimes not. Investigating that reference was my only reading about him, though.

         Reply
       • sheila says:

         June 6, 2020 at 8:20 am

         // I was impressed with her ability to simultaneously offer something for the general political reader while still remaining comprehensive and providing original, foundational research. That’s a difficult task with such a complicated topic. //

         Yes! I so agree with this. I felt that way about the piece in the Atlantic that I linked to – she’s such an expert, but she draws you into her expertise – allowing you to expand your own knowledge base. I really appreciate that about her!

         and in re: Robert Conquest: I think I might have also got turned onto him through Hitchens, too, although I can’t remember. If you want to get started with him, read The Great Terror. It’s his most famous. He wrote it long before glasnost – when the archives were still closed – and he was just proving guesstimates of the numbers involved. When he finally got to examine the archives, he realized he had UNDER-estimated by 10 or 20 million people. The revised edition of The Great Terror has all the new information he found in the archives, all of which confirmed his initial guesses.

         I really recommend it!

         Reply
2. DBW says:

   June 4, 2020 at 11:43 pm

   Sheila–You know that I think a lot of you, and have a well-founded respect for your intellect, your immense talents, and your dogged persistence. More than that, I flat care about you. We have shared a lot over the years, but I think it would be feckless of me not to express that I just completely disagree with your take on all of this. I don’t understand what you are thinking. I don’t understand the sources of your obvious contempt. (As I’m writing this, I really fear this might well be the end of our relationship, transient as it is, and I hope not.) I OWE this to you. It wouldn’t be right for me to continue to read your impassioned commentary, almost all of which befuddles me, and just let it go. I think too much of you, and I value the distanced friendship we’ve always had way too much, not to tell you that I do not agree with you at all. We could drink wine and argue about this all day, and I would hope we could still embrace, and still rejoice that we are Americans…and everything that means, good and bad. I’ll end by saying I think you are a marvel, but I think you are grossly mistaken, and I can’t even begin to understand why.

   Unlike what I have done, please give me just a little bit leeway before you take me to the woodshed.

   Reply
   • sheila says:

     June 6, 2020 at 8:16 am

     Okay so this is the second cranky comment you’ve left on my site in the past weeks. Are you having some problem with me? I mean, that first comment was on a dumb post about Eminem, and you made some bitchy comment about James Joyce – which … come on, man, you know me better than that.

     And contempt is the least of what I feel. Ever since that monster in office went after the Gold Star family during his campaign – and Republicans didn’t drop their support of him – all of whom who are supposedly so pro-military – I’ve known he was unfit – grossly unfit – in every way possible. I come from a family who served and serve. They were all horrified and infuriated. When he said of McCain: “I like people who WEREN’T captured.” There is something wrong with him. And so I have been fighting all along to get him out and to defeat the toadies who support him. I think the 25th Amendment should have been invoked long ago.

     And contempt? I have RAGE for the Republicans who have allowed this man to align us with … North Korea. And Russia? RUSSIA? What I do not understand, DBW, is the mental disconnect of Republicans who have talked a nice big game about being pro-liberty and anti-tyranny for decades and then … say jack-squat about this man who hates liberty, who considers himself President of only his base, who has worked to divide us, to escalate conflicts, to go after the most vulnerable, the ones who most need protection. Not to mention kiss Putin’s ass and speak longingly of how much the people of North Korea love Kim Jong-il, and how that murderous dictator is doing such a great job.

     I’m disgusted. Not with you personally – I like you and we go way back and I appreciate you -and yet here you are leaving yet another irritated comment on my site. If you’re shocked to hear me say these things … then I think you have misunderstood me – and who I am and what I believe – all along, and that pains me to say.

     This is not a swerve on my part. I have not changed at all. I have been entirely consistent throughout the years. Hell, I was protesting with Act Up in college to bring awareness to the AIDS plague, which had taken some of my friends, a plague which was completely ignored by the homophobic administration. So my views now are entirely consistent with my views then. The difference is: I am not aligned with “party.” I could give a shit about parties. I disagree with much of the Left too, particularly the pro-censorship wing of the left. When Right and Left join hands to censor works of art and control language, you know something really shitty is being proposed. But I am independent. I put country over party. My identity is not wrapped up in how I vote, or what I check on the ballot. I am pro-freedom, pro-liberty, pro-freedom of press, pro-freedom of assembly, pro-separation-of-church-and-state, pro-science, pro-immigration, pro-fairness for minorities in our often unfair and racist justice system, pro-freedom to dissent. The assault on the free press – nonstop for four years – should appall everyone. I am pro- freedom to fight for a better system if we the citizenry see fit. This is how we began, and this is who we are, and why people want to come here (not anymore, and who can blame them). Oh yeah, and I am pro the freedom to VOTE. How about we not try to PREVENT citizens from voting, because oh noes what if the result doesn’t go “our” way. These are the ideals of this country and I stand with those ideals. I fight for those ideals. It’s the American way.

     Posterity will not be kind to those who stood back and allowed this to happen. This is the point of Anne Applebaum’s great piece in The Atlantic, which I linked to. My lifelong study really of totalitarian system and brainwashing of State-sponsored power – ever since reading 1984 in high school – has prepared me for this moment. Nothing surprises me. It’s all unfurling according to schedule. Sinclair Lewis predicted it.

     45 has done irreparable damage to America, at home and abroad, and it will take us generations to recover, not to mention restore trust with our allies.

     Yesterday the man said that George Floyd must be smiling down on all of us because the economy is going well and “it’s a great day for him.” For George Floyd. Who is dead. Killed in broad daylight. 45’s comment was depraved and grotesque. He is unfit.

     And you’re the one saying our relationship will end. This post wasn’t directed at you. Just like the Eminem post wasn’t directed at you, Jesus Lord almighty. If you can’t deal with plurality of opinion, if a different opinion means you have to end relationships, then that’s on you.

     And funny – some years back I remember you leaving a comment here saying “I understand why you stopped writing political posts, but I do miss them!”

     So here’s a political post. And you don’t like it. So I guess you only like political posts where you agree with what I’m saying. And THAT’S the problem. I’m allowed to disagree with who is in power. I am allowed to protest. I am allowed to fight against what I consider to be unfair. I am allowed to hate 45. I have loyalty to my country, not to who holds office. I have more loyalty to America than 45 does. I wouldn’t commit treason and give aid and comfort to our enemies. I distrust everyone in power. Even if I voted for them (which I did not vote for 45.). I distrust power and will always keep an eye on public officials – to make sure they remember that THEY serve US, not the other way around. The Founders taught me that.

     Reply
3. DBW says:

   June 6, 2020 at 4:58 pm

   Whoa. That is a lot to respond to. First, I didn’t mean anything snarky in my comment about Joyce. I just meant there were lots of smart people out there who might not know who Eminem is. I did pick Joyce on purpose, given your connection, but I didn’t mean it the way you took it. I just went back and read my comment again, and it IS a bit cranky. I think I was really more agitated by some of your other recent comments that seem to imply that all good people should agree about our current political environment, and then I went and commented on an Eminem post…so, it was stupid. I never thought, or said, that either of those posts were directed to me. You say that you have the right to disagree with who is in power, and to hate 45. You certainly do. I think I also have the right to say that I disagree with your take on things, and I really don’t think there was anything ‘cranky’ about this specific comment. There is a tone to all of the criticisms of Trump and his supporters that seems to assume that all good, rational people feel the same way. Many of your statements about it have carried that same tone, and I just wanted you to know that there are many decent, loyal Americans who haven’t lost their minds, or been prey to Trump’s hypnotic propaganda, who simply don’t agree with you. There is, indeed, something wrong with Trump. He is a completely defective spokesperson for conservative ideology, and, in many ways, his own worse enemy. My political views are based solely on ideology, and not on personality. You often bring up Putin and Russia in your comments about Trump. His statements about Putin and Kim Jong-il bring to mind the old saying, “Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.” For all of his positive public comments about Putin, his policies towards Putin have been inarguably the toughest of any post Cold War president. To me, the Left’s all-too-frequent approach of non-confrontational appeasement has been a disaster. Just for instance, the trade and intellectual property disparities between the US and China should have been addressed and fixed 40 years ago. You say that Trump hates liberty, has worked to divide us, considers himself only the President of his base, and so on. I think those things are demonstrably untrue, unless someone is seeing everything he does and says through a prism of animated distaste and contempt for him. I certainly understand why many can’t stand him, but I also feel that many allow those feelings to color their interpretation of his every action. As for Anne Applebaums essay, while well-written, I think most of it is asinine, and perfect example of someone seeing what they want to see. I mean, is Lindsay Graham, like Markus Wolf, going to turn into an instrument of repression and help run the American version of the Stasi? I think not. She criticizes Trump’s comments about the ‘establishment’ during his inaugural address–“He described America’s capital city, America’s government, America’s congressmen and senators—all democratically elected and chosen by Americans, according to America’s 227-year-old Constitution—as an ‘establishment’ that had profited at the expense of ‘the people.’ “Their victories have not been your victories,” he said. “Their triumphs have not been your triumphs.”
   If applied to the last 40 years of so, sadly, I mostly agree with that. William F. Buckley used to talk about the efficacy of replacing our Congress with people chosen from the phone book. I used to argue strongly against that way of thinking, saying we would lose too many good and experienced people. Today, I think we’d lose a couple handfuls of good and experienced people, but I believe you and I could sit down with phone books from around the country, and randomly select people who would be a much more effective deliberative and governing body than what we have now. To me, Applebaum’s bias is apparent in her words–hers is a dialog of extremes. I don’t even want to get into her individual comments, because there are so many with which I don’t agree…at all. She judges so many of his actions by a reality that only exists in her fevered dislike for the man. Her assertions are colored by her hate.

   Enough of this. I’m sorry that I was snarky. I certainly don’t like arguing with you in public. Trump is a grossly imperfect flag bearer, but I mostly agree with his policies, in a way I can’t say about any President in a long, long time. I think he is strengthening our foreign policy, no longer allowing us to be used as the world’s dishrag and primary funding apparatus. His dismantling of so many absurd and unnecessary regulatory restrictions is a fantastic thing. His realigning of the federal judiciary away from what I think was a disastrous path towards legislating from the bench is something I feared I’d never see again in my life. He has cut taxes, ignited growth, created incredible numbers of new jobs–many of which will come back as the Covid threat diminishes, addressed illegal immigration, rebuilt our National Defense, placed American interests ahead of other countries, fought for fair trade, severely hindered Islamic terrorism, been very careful with military deployments, protected religious liberty, and so on. For me, those things all outweigh his often ignorant comments, his media posturing, and his apparent need to lash out at the slightest of criticisms. And, I don’t think that makes me a budding fascist, or un-American. I strongly support your right to completely disagree with me, and to think I am totally misguided. And, once again, I understand why you don’t want to write about politics anymore. Here I am, someone who thinks so highly of you, and I’ve created a big issue when you made a few random comments. I won’t be commenting about any of his anymore.

   Oh, one other thing. I didn’t mean I’d end our relationship. Given some of your comments, I thought you might get mad at me, and ban me from your site. I hope not.

   Reply
   • sheila says:

     June 8, 2020 at 10:35 am

     I would never ban you.

     You have been reading me for 20 years almost. If you have thought I was smart, at any point during that period, then maybe consider I have come to my conclusions based on analysis and critical thinking – parTICularly since I am not partisan in any strict sense of the word. I’m not knee-jerk about party or policy. I don’t believe what anyone tells me to believe. And as you know I got shit on by Lefties from time to time because I wasn’t following their talking points. I make up my own mind. So maybe give me the benefit of the doubt that maybe I’m seeing something you’re not. That I’m not just following some mythical “Left”, that I understand tyranny, I understand how propaganda works, and that I recognize the dangers, the fragility of democracy, and that liberty is something that needs to be fought over, generation to generation. Nothing is a done deal. Norms have been shattered during this adminstration that will not be rectified any time soon.

     If you can’t consider I might be as thoughtful as you are in re: what’s going on, then that’s your problem. I can’t fight that and I choose not to put my energy into stuff like that anymore.

     If you don’t like me taking swipes at Putin – or that you noticed I was doing this and it built up in you for a while, irritating you – I mean … it’s just wild to me. Considering the years I have been writing about Stalinist Russia here, oppressive Russia – often having in-depth conversations with you about it – I mean, even upthread in a conversation with another person we’re chatting about gulags and Robert Conquest, etc. – something normally you would have loved to join in on, and now somehow you push back. It’s sad. If you can’t see what it looks like to me from the outside, then there’s nothing I can do about it. This is exactly what I was talking about in the initial post. I will continue to criticize Russia – and I will continue to lambast those who have been “evil empire evil empire” for 40 years – like it was their identity – and now turn themselves inside out to justify 45’s love affair with this former-KGB-thug. “Keep your enemies close” – you give 45 way too much credit. I agree with Anne Applebaum – history will judge those who were silent right now, who chose to not recognize the dangers, or made “deals with the devil” because of Supreme Court spots, or whatever else. I take the long view. I take the long view because I know history and I love democracy. The fact that he continues to hold rallies for his base through his Presidency. It’s such a dangerous precedent, a huge norm has been shattered … it’s chilling. My favorite writers during this time, the ones I’ve really looked to, have been the conservatives who are brave enough to “break rank” – George Will, Max Boot, Rick Wilson, Bill Kristol, Tom Nichols – they’re often the best critics of what is happening, because it’s the country they love, and they are watching what is happening to the Republican Party with horror and amazement.

     So … if you decide you want to keep reading and posting here, then you’ll have to get that I’ve made up my own mind, and you either are OKAY with that – which means you live in a democracy where plurality of opinion is allowed – or you are NOT – which means you live in a place where only one opinion is allowed – which is a dictatorship. Normally I don’t post about politics and I’m not going to make a habit of it now. Here is a place where I pay tribute to the artists who inspire me. I just wanted to share Applebaum’s article as well as the helpful Google doc for anyone involved in the protests – I shared it on my Instagram, on FB, and wanted to share it here too.

     I’m not mad at you personally. If you feel attacked by anything I’ve said – sorry, I guess? I have always liked you and have very good memories of our talks here as well as our private correspondence. Truly! You’ve been here from the jump and that means a lot! But I stand by all of my opinions. I’ve done a lot of soul-searching and reading. Cate (member Cate?) and I have commiserated in total dismay and bafflement, nearly every step of the way. The times are too dangerous to waste time “both sides-ing” this thing. Certain issues and events don’t HAVE two sides. Like attacking a Gold Star family, for WEEKS. Like making fun of a disabled reporter. Like separating children from their parents indefinitely. Like a policeman kneeling on a man’s neck for over 8 minutes. Like a President* vowing to send “thousands and thousands” of troops out to violently crush his own citizens. Hey, just like Iran in 2009, good times! I’m not going to spend my time justifying my well-considered views to someone who seems shocked I’ve come to different conclusions than he has. I’m done with that.

     You’re a longtime reader and I have valued your contributions here. But you should know where I stand.

     And at this point I only ban people who call me a dumb whore or who yell at me for thinking Captain Fantastic was a terrible movie.

     Reply
4. DBW says:

   June 8, 2020 at 10:28 pm

   OMG. I said I wasn’t going to comment anymore, but I am. When did I ever imply that you weren’t as thoughtful as I am? Are you disregarding all of the conversations we’ve had over the years wherein I have admired your thoughtfulness and intellect? Jesus. I don’t care one bit if you are taking swipes at Putin! I just disagree with your assessment that Trump is somehow in cahoots with the son of a bitch, or next in line in the dictators’ Hall of Shame. I know you have a deep and longstanding interest in, and grasp of, the oppressive horrors of the Soviet Union, Russia, and its leaders. I’m not questioning that. To see you reference people like Kristol, Nichols, Wilson, Boot, and Will is just depressing. What they are watching happen is the end of their gravy train where they paid homage with hollow platitudes to ‘conservative’ political agendas that, somehow, they never got around to actually doing anything about. The fact that every one of those people are now criticizing the achieving of so many of the things they said they supported for decades just shows how shallow their actual value system is. Now that their magazines and media appearances are drying up, they are out on the stroll for a new gig. Nobody is booking passage on Kristol’s infamous “Inner Circle” cruises these days. They are little more than paid prostitutes, sometimes cloaked in a veneer of collegiate pedigrees and Brooks Brothers suits, and they see that their longtime ‘side of the street’ is closing for business…and they don’t like it. You seem to think I’m questioning your or anyone else’s right to voice an opinion with which I don’t agree. I think you know me better than that. I’m just saying that I don’t agree with your opinion, and what bothered me was the tacit implication that no good person or real American would disagree with that opinion. In this case, I do–strongly. That’s all I was saying. I still respect you, and still take the time to read, and, in this case, respond to your opinions…because I respect you. And, again, as I assume you do indeed come to those opinions after sober reflection, it has surprised me where that sober reflection has led you.

   I’ll end on this, and this is the kind of thing that bothers me. You wrote, “Yesterday the man said that George Floyd must be smiling down on all of us because the economy is going well and “it’s a great day for him.” This is Trump’s actual statement-
   “Equal justice under the law must mean that every American receives equal treatment in every encounter with law enforcement regardless of race, color, gender or creed. They have to receive fair treatment from law enforcement. They have to receive it. We all saw what happened last week. We can’t let that happen. Hopefully, George is looking down right now and saying, ‘This is a great thing that is happening for our country.’ It’s a great day for him. It’s a great day for everybody. This is a great day in terms of equality. It’s really what our Constitution requires, and it’s what our country is all about.” Now, I also heard that reported over and over again that he was referencing the jobs report or the uptick in the Market, but I think a fair appraisal of his comments would show that a media that despises the man is reporting everything he says and does to show him in the worst possible light. Trump talked about the economy doing well, but NOT in reference to George Floyd. The media edited the comments to make him look terrible. You can continue to dislike him, but at least do it based on the bad things he has actually said and done, not things that are made up about him.

   Again, I never said your views weren’t well-considered, or that I think you aren’t thoughtful. I just didn’t like the tone that implied anyone who thought differently was supporting the next great Fascist. As a conservative, you become accustomed to being accused of being homophobic, racist, sexist, dim-witted, culturally unaware, and so on your whole life, and I am none of those things. It’s get old, and I guess it breeds a certain sensitivity, particularly when it comes from a friendly source.

   Reply

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