Okay, so a conversation broke out in the post below about things we love, things we hate ... It's getting pretty interesting. Now that the Rolling Stones vs. the Beatles controversy has arisen, as well as a conversation about Catcher in the Rye. People feel very passionately. And this is good and right.
So this made me think of a long-ago post I wrote - a conversation between Mitchell (one of my best friends) and myself. Here is how it went:
Conversation this weekend with dear old friend Mitchell. We talked about everything under the sun, and at one point we discussed making new friends. How challenging it can be sometimes ... how life is too short, when you get to be our age, to put up with friends you don't click with, or friends who consistently annoy you or let you down. Mitchell blurted out to me the following monologue, pretty much off the cuff, and exactly as written below. He finished speaking and I said, taking out my pen, "Okay, say that again...Go slow...I have to write this down."Mitchell:
"I have room for new people in my life but only the extraordinary need apply. Extraordinary is defined as:
a. Has seen "Harold and Maude"
b. Must know OF Joni Mitchell, and preferably owns "Blue"
c. Has read J.D. Salinger (if they prefer Franny and Zooey to Catcher in the Rye, even better.)Substitutions are accepted on a case by case basis."
Mitchell is one of the funniest people who has ever lived. He asked me what my substitutions would be and I replied:
For me, there would be no valid substituion for Harold and Maude. I just feel that if you haven't seen that movie, OR if you saw the movie and hated it, then something is seriously lacking in your character.I would add to that, though: Has seen "What's Up Doc" and thought it was freakin' hysterical. If someone saw that movie and thought it was stupid, or un-funny, I would think - Huh. Something's off in the sense of humor there ...
And the JD Salinger is a given ... but I would also say: "Thinks Catch-22 is one of the best books ever written."
That would be a valid substitution.
So I wonder what you all think about this - and what your requirements for friendship would be ... If you have any strange little requirements, like: "Must love Jane Austen..." or whatever.
It may be snobby, but so be it.
Like Mitchell said: "I have room for new people in my life but only the extraordinary need apply."
For you - what is extraordinary? What do you require? The more specific and weird, the better.
Let's try not to insult each other as we list these out. This is all in good fun, one would hope.
Posted by sheilaI can't think of any "musts", honestly. But there are a few "must nots".
Must Not reflexively assume that everything is America's fault, think Bush=Hitler, or compare Israel and Nazi Germany.
Must Not be overtly racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. Though occassional jokes are permissible.
Must Not remind me of the 2000 World Series.
Must Not be cruel, spiteful or just plain mean to any of my other friends.
Posted by: Bill McCabe at February 1, 2004 03:13 PMThese are good additions.
Posted by: red at February 1, 2004 03:20 PMMust be conversant in Mark Knopfler. He is my favorite guitarist/songwriter.
Must be somewhat online savvy though not totally never-get-out-of-the-house-geekish.
Other than that, basically anyone who applies. Though there are some stalker crazies out there, most people who want to be more than an acquaintance are probably worth your while and they already think you're interesting.
I love Mark Knopfler too
Posted by: red at February 1, 2004 03:22 PMActually, I've found one totally geekish friend to be very helpful when I'm stumped on something.
Posted by: Bill McCabe at February 1, 2004 03:25 PMOh, and one other thing:
Mitchell and I had also been talking about the movie High Fidelity - the John Cusack character obviously turns this kind of requirement-conversation into high-art.
His monologue about how it is IMPORTANT to know what music somebody is into, what books they have on their shelves - that these surface details will tell you more about them than any 25-minute conversation ever will...
It's like a secret code.
If someone says to me, "The first time I saw The Producers I fell off of my chair laughing" then I know that they are "my" kind of person.
For somebody else, it may be a completely different requirement ...
But it's the DETAILS that interest me.
There was a man I once was in the process of falling in love with - years ago - and at one point, he mentioned the book Geek Love to me and I thought I would have a heart attack.
I passed the point of no return when I heard that he had been hugely affected by that weird little book.
Posted by: red at February 1, 2004 03:28 PMI can't imagine any 'requirement' of a friend as far as some specific "likes" or "dislikes" or "must have seen" because honestly, I have too many friends who have different interests and likes that I can't imagine some mysterious standard.
And having never seen Harold and Maude, barely knowing of Joni Mitchell and never having read any J.D. Salinger, I guess I'm screwed.
Posted by: Ron at February 1, 2004 03:33 PMI agree on racist/homophobic/sexist...and I too, allow minor joking.
A big thing for me is sense of humor, and people who don't take themselves too seriously.
Posted by: Laura at February 1, 2004 03:34 PMRon,
It's kind of just a joke. We weren't really serious when we made these requirements - it was more of a statement of what is important to US.
Harold and Maude changed my life. If I meet some new person who randomly says, "Harold and Maude changed my life" then it is like a secret code, it tells me a lot about who that person IS.
Posted by: red at February 1, 2004 03:43 PMAnother example:
Once I made a "fantasy list", just for fun, of everything I wanted in a man. I gave myself the assignment that I would not just list the obvious things (sense of humor, laidback) but I would let myself get as SPECIFIC and as crazy as possible.
It was a fantasy.
It was a lot of fun, and actually kind of freeing.
I never would ACTUALLY say to a guy, "Listen, if you don't think Jackie Gleason is amazing, then you and I are through."
Especially if all the essentials were in place, like: sense of humor, nice to kids, laidback, etc.
Posted by: red at February 1, 2004 03:46 PMHm. Left a comment in here ... it appears to have been hijacked.
Anyway, another example of crazy requirements running the show is:
One of my long-term boyfriends actually broke up with a girl when he found out that she had never heard of Zero Mostel.
Of course, there were many other problems in the relationship, a lot of issues - but for him, the Zero Mostel thing was the last straw.
Posted by: red at February 1, 2004 03:54 PMA list of this sort is dangerous for me, both because there are exceptions to every rule and because many of the things I love are sufficiently quirky or of less than universal appeal that there are legions of wonderful people who may be completely unaware of them.
Having said all that, I'll make an effort:
If a person can listen to a great song like Honky Tonk Women and... no wait, scratch that one. ;-)
I would say that if a person could read Tess of the D'Urbervilles and feel no emotion whatsoever, I would have to strongly question their heart.
If a person could see the movie Ruthless People without laughing once, I'd have to question their sense of humor.
And if a person were to state with a conviction of religious ferocity that auto racing should be banned from existence, well, such a dangerous person would deserve to be locked up with the detainees down in Cuba...
Posted by: MikeR at February 1, 2004 03:58 PMWhile a list of everything I would look for in a "perfect woman" might be interesting, I've found myself attracted to women who wouldn't have much in common with the ideal I would put on paper.
Posted by: Bill McCabe at February 1, 2004 03:58 PMMikeR -
There ya go!! Very well done. Of course there are exceptions to everything! We can't take this too damn seriously, people.
What is fun (at least for me) is to see what is important to me, what matters to me.
I would never say, "You MUST read Geek Love and you MUST love it" ... but when this man from my past randomly brought it up and said, "I read this really freaky book and I can't get it out of my mind..." I thought: Woah. There is something similar in our brains.
Posted by: red at February 1, 2004 04:02 PMBill -
Me too.
Again, it was just a kind of fun exercise. More of a self-revelatory exercise than an actual wish-list.
Posted by: red at February 1, 2004 04:04 PMSheila,
I didn't think you were being serious. The dangers of online communication become apparent, as my response was a joke too. I do have some idea of what you mean though. I do wonder about people who watch Monty Python and say "I don't think this is funny"
Posted by: Ron at February 1, 2004 04:05 PMRon-
Thank goodness. Sometimes my humor does not come across, and I just sound like an asshole.
That's just what I mean, about the Monty Python thing ... Perhaps it's a matter of chemistry. Certain people watch Monty Python and yawn, others are helpless with laughter. Who knows why...
Posted by: red at February 1, 2004 04:07 PMThough, when it comes to women, there is the whole "Must not mock Braveheart" rule.
Not having an irrational fear of guns would be a big help too.
Posted by: Bill McCabe at February 1, 2004 04:08 PMMonty Python is funny, but I have serious issues with people who look for a reason to say "tis but a scratch" on a daily basis.
Posted by: Bill McCabe at February 1, 2004 04:09 PMWe recently rented Life of Brian, and although Holy Grail is very funny, Life of Brian was more cleverly funny. No obvious lines, some, but not quite as many as Holy Grail. We did just rent Meaning of Life, which we'll view sometime this week, and I'm looking forward to it.
The problem with Holy Grail, is so many have seen it and the quote it to DEATH, and the movie loses out somewhat because the lines grow old and less funny because of pinheads who like to interject them whenever possible.
Posted by: Laura at February 1, 2004 04:22 PMOnion Classic: Maybe I can impress her with my Holy Grail quotes
Posted by: Bill McCabe at February 1, 2004 04:25 PMThe one thing I'd definitely insist on is that they not have a list of "requirements for friendship." :-P
Posted by: Dave J at February 1, 2004 04:51 PMOh for God's sake, it's a joke. Perhaps I should file this under a had-to-be-there.
Posted by: red at February 1, 2004 05:17 PMOh, and about the Holy Grail quoters ...
I have discovered that it is not a good idea for me to watch "What's Up Doc" with someone who has not seen it before. I completely ruin their experience. I laugh 5 minutes before the joke comes.
I can recite the whole movie - which, if I am sitting there with my sister Jean or my friend Meredith, or Mitchell, who can also recite the whole movie - is hilariously fun, but there is NOTHING more annoying to someone who hasn't seen the film before.
Posted by: red at February 1, 2004 05:22 PMA day or two after New Years, we were visiting some friends, whom Ron's known since college. We decided to watch The Princess Bride, which up until then I had never seen before. It was rather amusing when Ron and Mark were quoting the movie as it played, but trying to do so quietly so not to ruin it for me..
Posted by: Laura at February 1, 2004 06:01 PMWell, duh, I know it was a joke. So was my response.
Posted by: Dave J at February 1, 2004 06:10 PMDave J -
My sincere apologies. I had just received 2 emails from people who told me I was an 'arrogant elitist' as well as an 'asshole'. I thought: Jesus, is my tone in the post SO off that they would think that and not get that me and Mitchell were just kidding around?? Then came your comment and you, unfortunately, got the brunt of my frustration.
Peace??
Posted by: red at February 1, 2004 07:48 PM"I had just received 2 emails from people who told me I was an 'arrogant elitist' as well as an 'asshole'."
One thing I never have quite figured out is why anyone, in the vast expanse that is the Internet, chooses to spend their time in a place they do not find enjoyable.
Posted by: MikeR at February 1, 2004 08:41 PMMaybe we're all elitists here, Sheila, but not in a bad way. I've never gotten a hint of arrogance from you--and that's coming from me, who sometimes has to work pretty hard not to come off as an arrogant schmuck. I mean, I AM a lawyer. OTOH, I can be pretty oblivious, too, so maybe you are an arrogant asshole and I just can't tell. ;-)
Oh, and if I really have to spell it out, everything I wrote above was sarcasm, to which I am terminally addicted. Please don't take me too seriously.
And what Mike R said.
Posted by: Dave J at February 1, 2004 09:09 PMDave J -
I need to not take random emails from people who never comment on my blog too seriously!
Posted by: red at February 1, 2004 09:34 PMMy list of desirable qualities for friends...
1. No bad drunks/drinkers. If you can't hold your hooch and still insist on partaking, go elsewhere. I am waaaaayyyy past 21 and have not the time for your drama.
2. Read. Something. Even the evil Russian lit. - as long as you can discuss it and make me care why to hear why you like it.
3. Music. See #2. Extra points if you agree with me about The Replaecments.
4. Understand the meaning of loyalty.
5. For God's sake, have a sense of humor.
The Replacements!! Yeah...
Posted by: red at February 2, 2004 07:34 AMShit!! My only requirement of a friend is "arrogant elitist". Now I'm totally screwed, Sheila! I thought you were my friend!!!!!!
Posted by: Beth at February 2, 2004 08:40 AMOf course, I can hope you are still an asshole.
Posted by: Beth at February 2, 2004 08:41 AMIn the "not mandatory but would be nice" category would be "actually liking the obscure British sci-fi series "Doctor Who" and appreciating its retro-cheesy appeal"
Posted by: Jim at February 2, 2004 11:52 AM