That’s been my life this fall. I’m grateful. But I feel you, Chuck. I feel you.
Tonight, I’m working on my review for Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Road Chip (see comment above), so I’ll catch you all on the flip side.
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Tonight was a rerun of S11E01, so should we recap the season so far or something? Speculation for the rest of S11, wish lists, favorite scenes?
It’s obvious how out of it I am they I didn’t even know that!
Pretty sure we never had a thread for the midseason finale last week, ‘O brother Where Art Thou’, so that seems like a reasonable place to start.
If I don’t put up a new post for whatever reason (I forgot about it last week), feel free to keep talking in the previous week’s post!
I just couldn’t bring myself to follow my pedantic explanation to Wren of what is a card catalogue with discussion of Lucifer, cage, Amara, etc. And the image I posted is an embarrassment to all card catalogues, such an elegantly useful piece of furniture with its little hook pulls that perfectly fit your finger and slide out shelves to write on. My apologies to card catalogues everywhere.
…what is life.
Oh Jesus, who did you piss off at Ebert to get stuck writing up that one?
It’s actually pretty good. I’ve reviewed much worse. (Also, I’ve had 4 or 5 good movies to write about in a row this past month. I love it when that happens!)
Nothing was worse than earlier this year when I had to review a whole line of stinkers in a row. It’s all a blur. Nobody could have known they were stinkers. They were unknown entities, it was January/February, who cares about those movies. But it was so dispiriting I finally did say, Guys, my number’s up for something GOOD. I get it, there are only 10 regular reviewers over there. Each of us has had to take turns having to review shit.
But “Alvin” is actually pretty entertaining!
and it has one legitimately funny exchange.
Guy, who has asked for a rental car that is super fast – and sees this cute tiny little yellow car rolling up towards him – explodes in anger: “It’s like a roller skate with wheels!”
Rental car guy, total deadpan, “I’m pretty sure roller skates already have wheels.”
Here to say I am now on TENTERHOOKS now for the Alvin and the Chipmunks review!
So was Dean at the end of season 2!
Now I’m thinking of chipmunks on tenterhooks which is not a good mental image. Grrrr.
I too was distracted by the Chipmunks movie. How? What? They made another of those? Why? I’m on board with discussing O Brother Where Art Though however need to get my thoughts together now. Chipmunks. Huh.
hahahaha Life is so bizarre. I go from writing about John Wayne for Masters of Cinema to reviewing “Alvin” for Ebert. Keeps me honest, I’ll tell you that.
Frankly, I don’t understand the chipmunks phenomenon at all, but if you’re GOING to see a chipmunks movie, this one isn’t half bad.
//“I’m pretty sure roller skates already have wheels.”//
Chipmunks Christmas album – still a family favorite.
That ep was intense and had such a frantic pace. I sat there thinking, wait, just wait a minute, you don’t have to team up with Crowley and Rowena, you don’t have to take that push cart down to the Cage.
Rowena is such a great button-pushing manipulator. “Your domineering brother and the abandonment by your father.” And fangirling over Lucifer? “Probably not relationship material”. All that humor covers up that she’s such an unrepentent villian. I’m sure she set those wards to fail. The shot of her behind Sam and Crowley casting the spell makes them look like her marionettes and she is pulling their strings.
// I sat there thinking, wait, just wait a minute//
Me too, Sam, P U H L E E Z wait for Dean!!! And Rowena – manipulator, unrelenting, marionettes…yes. I also couldn’t shake a feeling about Crowley when he replied to Lucifer’s greeting, “A mere acolyte carrying your torch.” I’m thinking he was pretty vitriolic towards Dean and Sam on last meeting. Wasn’t that a little too easy to convince him to help them again and Rowena came along without too much of a fuss (moreso than her constant mouthiness). Are they up to something? I will almost be disappointed if they’re/he’s not.
Goody Rowena wants to consort with The Devil.
What would Dean have been able to do, though, really? If they had waited for him. He’d either have ended up stuck with Sam or unable to do anything anyway.
He mightn’t have fallen for Rowena’s obvious setup? Before even rushing down to Hell?
Dean would have put the brakes on when Rowena starts calling out for Crowley and a push cart (I’m still laughing out this. We had a card catalog last week and now a library A/V push cart this week.) And if Sam was with Dean, he would have disrupted Amara’s trance. One is unanchored without the other one.
True, true *wallows in brodependency*
The contrast of Dean facing off with the Darkness in that beautiful sunny field and Sam facing off with Lucifer the Light Bringer in the blackness of Hell. Give me more of that.
Like I said on Twitter, I think: what I love most of all is that both of them are being seduced at the same time. It’s a change-up of structure. Normally, one of them derails as the other one tries to hold the fort/save the other. That’s not happening now. They’re both having love affairs. So who’s gonna mind the store in this scenario?
I’m very happy about that aspect of what’s happening most of all.
How many times have we seen Sam go off the rails and Dean be all worried? Or Dean go off the rails and Sam be all worried?
Now they’re worried about each other – but irresistibly drawn to these seductive individuals in a way that can’t be stopped … so … you know … what next?
With a season this long-running, if you don’t have that surprise “what next” element, you’re screwed and people are just watching it out of habit.
It is a seduction on both sides leaving the boat unanchored this time. That contributed to my frantic anxious feelings. Both characters, Amara and Lucifer, have strong attraction to their viewpoints. Who doesn’t want freedom and bliss? Who wouldn’t want to put away the world’s greatest threat? These two are more like mirrors and Twins than Amara and God. So much ego, so self righteous.
I keep wondering, though; the show seems to be setting up a Lucifer/Amara showdown, but would Lucifer be more likely to throw in with her? Usually the only way they get one antagonist to work with them against another one is by convincing one of them that it’s in their best interest, but thus far Amara has at best gotten Lucifer nearly free, and at worst given him back his roommate/plaything. She’s the best thing that’s happened to him since Season 5. :P
//She’s the best thing that’s happened to him since Season 5// ha! You’re right they would be unstoppable but based on her animosity towards ‘whiny winged suck ups’ I’m guessing that won’t happen. Also she doesn’t seem to hate humans even when sucking out their souls while Lucifer can’t stand them (except Sam).
// but would Lucifer be more likely to throw in with her?//
I also feel like there is more to Lucifer’s endgame than freedom or Sam-doll. It is deliciously tantalizing.
The most heart rending scene was Sam’s calming himself, so sure that this was God’s guidance, only to have Lucifer rip his heart out, “God is not with you.” Sam’s tear, fear, and bravery were all rolled into one terrible moment. The hiatus (or you-must-hate-us) question is how Sam will respond to that challenge. Now I was one of the first on the bandwagon of that is definitely Lucifer talking to Sam in ‘Baby’, but in my book that does not necessarily mean that God didn’t answer Sam’s prayers or that He didn’t create the rift in the cage knowing Lucifer would reach out. “So help me, Sam, if you say God works in mysterious ways…” Lucifer is a liar! Another quote from ‘Faith’ “You can’t just have faith when the miracles happen, you have to have it when they don’t!” Hold on, Sam!
#RedeemLucifer
Truthfully, I was pretty meh on this episode at first because of the Dean/Amara scenes. The actress playing Amara just hasn’t pulled me in yet; I get no menace or intensity from her. I find myself focusing on JA during their scenes and go deaf to the gist of their scenes. However, I listened to an SPN podcast which really gets into the meat of the storyline and it opened my eyes and gave me an appreciation for what I glossed over. On rewatch, I got so much more out of Amara’s viewpoint. I love when that happens – when a (IMO) so-so episode turns into a better one. I actually didn’t like Mystery Spot on first watch and its in my top 15 now.
I did love the Cage scenes. Ruth Connell is so smirky and devious as Rowena – love her. Mark P. was in great form, bringing out all the creepiness as Lucifer; those red eyes were horrifying. Jared was great as terrified Sam. He’s in the caaaaaggeee! It’s gonna be another long hiatus.
If anyone is interested, the podcast is called The Crossroads. The hosts call themselves “men with no lives”. It’s 3 straight guys who are SUPER fans of the show; one apparently has studied film making. They do an excellent breakdown of episodes. They do get a bit raunchy and frat boyish, but it’s minimal.
Truthfully, I don’t think you’re SUPPOSED to be getting “menace” from Amara. Your initial response seems like the right one to me. She’s not bringing obvious evil like Abaddon. It’s something else. I don’t get “menace” from her either – just a kind of casual and unstoppable amorality (not immorality!) that comes from being sort of like Mother Nature on a rampage. A hurricane/exploding volcano/tornado isn’t malevolent although it causes a lot of damage. It’s just doing what it’s supposed to do.
So I don’t need to feel “pulled in” because what’s happening up there with her is something bizarre and different. She’s not a Big Bad. At this point, I think SPN has tapped out the usefulness of Big Bads, and they seem smart enough to realize that.
She’s something entirely new.
I love Lucifer’s teasing buddy-buddy tone most of all. I’ve been so tired of generic sneering villains. Have missed that overt sexual innuendo thing. Even Crowley, master of innuendo, was neutered in S10.
But even Crowley didn’t have that “bunk buddy” thing that Lucifer has going. So I’m happy to see it back. Supernatural hasn’t been nearly as sexual-twisty as I prefer.
// Supernatural hasn’t been nearly as sexual-twisty as I prefer.//
I’ll second that.
maybe ‘nice to see it back’ doesn’t quite capture the feeling, but perversely satisfied.
What would the show be without the threat of prison rape in the air in every interaction?
Oh dear.
Guilty as charged.
Some of my clients are referred by the Dept of Corrections, and I just today had to sign off on receiving training and information about reporting and preventing prison rape and sexual harassment, so it’s funny (to me, anyway) that this came up today.
//Supernatural hasn’t been nearly as sexual-twisty as I prefer.// amen sister.
//She’s not a Big Bad. At this point, I think SPN has tapped out the usefulness of Big Bads, and they seem smart enough to realize that.
She’s something entirely new.//
I love that none of the characters seem to realize this. Sam and Dean (despite Dean’s attraction to her, or whatever you want to call it) still seem to think she is a Big Bad that needs to be defeated. It’s their only frame of reference. Crowley saw her as an evil force to manipulate and exploit. Rowena is too busy drooling over Lucifer to worry about what she is.
Seduction is exactly the right word. Lucifer we know as acted by the lovely Mark Pelligrimo but the casting for Amara is also very smart. This is a woman with cleavage and experience. This is not a blond slyph. This is the type of woman that would appeal to Dean. She’s sexy and deep and smart and intriguing.
Carolyn –
// This is a woman with cleavage and experience. This is not a blond slyph. //
Haha!! You have a way with words and I totally agree.
I was babbling on Twitter about this: In general, the SPN team CONCEIVE of these women very well. The complaints about women “representation” on SPN seems really short-sighted. Sure, they’ve gone wrong a couple of times, but they’ve been on the air for 145 years. No one’s track record is perfect.
A LOT of thought is put into the women who show up on this show – especially the women who get connected to Sam or Dean (Dean, in particular).
These are substantial characters, unique women. Lisa and Cassie and Ellen and Jo and Pamela and Amelia and Ruby … Abaddon too. (Jess, not so much. Although Sam’s memories of her make her more specific.)
But in terms of love interest/kindred spirit-isnh relationships: the women Dean is attracted to are not a certain “type” – but they all are smart, capable, and … intuitive, maybe? Not ball-busters or bimbos. They are women capable of surprise. The bar-chick (Tina) from last season, a favorite. And my favorite, Melanie the “woo woo” psychic – who was both “woo woo” but also smart and funny, and Dean’s click with her was automatic and powerful. What I’m saying is: these women are written really really well, but more than that: they show that a lot of thought has been put into it.
It would be so easy to make Dean attracted to young blonde-ponytail girls who look like rejects from The Bachelor. Such an unimaginative choice, but so many genre shows with heroes go that way. They have not gone that route. The Dean character is deeper than that. He is a very very very bizarre man. And women who can “see through him” or click with him would be a rare thing indeed. Amara is definitely in that continuum.
I really like the connection. And I like the actress a lot too. She’s got an angular beauty that is quite striking.
//women who can “see through him” or click with him would be a rare thing indeed// Let’s not forget Bela. Another smart, capable match for Dean with a sad and twisted back story. Bela and Amara are two where the walls went up for Dean and he lost his softness. I thought it was because they held prior knowledge of him, knew his role and his world, as opposed to Tina and Melanie, but giving more thought to this, I think I’m off base. Dean’s walls with a woman go back up once he in forced back into ‘protect Sam’ mode. Bela shot Sam so it’s hard to engage him after that and Amara threw Sam up against a wall, which broke Dean’s trance. Both Tina and Melanie are almost completely off the Sam radar, where he doesn’t have much interaction with them (same with Cassie where Sam didn’t even know she existed). Dean’s most open relationships with women are sans Sam in the picture.
Bela!! Yes!
Like my first post about poor Dean: he was “susceptible” to Bela. I guess they both were. (Poor Sam with his sex dream and his drool.)
But her treachery was too much. The way she ended still haunts me – and Dean’s cold-ness about it. But that’s what’s great about the show. It’s willing to “go there.”
You make a really interesting point about Dean’s relationships (Lisa, Cassie … Tina bar-chick, Melanie – even the best one of all: the never seen Amy in “Shadow”) happening off Sam’s radar.
Dean has so little privacy – since everyone and their grandmother and their Wendigo see right through him – and that lack of privacy extends to Sam’s preconceived notions about his big brother being a hound dog – that of course he’d go for the girls secretly. It’s rather … sweet, although totally insane and neurotic too.
I guess the same is true for Sam, too – although there’s that gross “That’s muh boy” moment at the end of Provenance (gross. stop it.), and then Heart – where Dean was involved and supportive.
Sam’s major relationships – Jess and Ruby and Amelia – also had to take place outside of the Dean Influence.
These brothers, man. Grow up, dudes. You’re nearly middle-aged at this point!!
And even though Dean told Sam about that initial reaction to Amara – he’s clearly keeping secrets again. You know, having a love scene with a 14-year-old girl, and etc.
This show is so awesome.
Same with Lisa, right? It was a great relationship when it was off the radar. She never even met Sam until the disastrous lock down in S6E1 and then that relationship never recovered.
It would not surprise me at all if Dean had other relationships he’s hiding from everyone.
I mean, pancake-house school-dance girl from when he was 16. First kiss girl.
I don’t mean to sound really really stupid – but I thought I knew Dean, and that one really threw me for a loop. (and I love being thrown for a loop.)
I always assumed that maybe John Winchester bought him a hooker for his 16th b-day (as actually happened to a really good friend of mine, with a similar type of dad) … or that it was some floozy in a bar when he was still a minor.
To find out it was THAT … something out of the 1950s was beautiful.
And Dean doesn’t share stuff like that. Too precious to be shared? Little pockets of innocence/happiness he wants to keep to himself? Like the dream he just told Sam he has all the time. His secret dream of Lisa on a picnic blanket.
It’s strangely touching that Dean – who’s so braggy in a lot of ways – is also this nervous about letting people see that stuff. (and considering how Sam reacted to both Cassie AND the pancake-house girl – “dude … DUDE … what was THAT …” hahahaha) I don’t blame Dean wanting some privacy with his own sweet softy-wofty feelings.
Sam’s sex dream. One of best awkward moments of the show. The drooling, the “oh, sam” declaration. His brother is watching him while he has it. His object of desire shows up. No wonder Sam has confusing boners.
Also, frankly:
Both of them suck on the woman question with one another. I get why, and it’s really interesting, but it’s still annoying. (I like it when the show annoys me, as long as it makes sense.)
So Dean’s weirdness about Amelia and total lack of interest in her. (Yes. Because Sam just left him in Purgatory. WTF Sam.) But even still …
all that caring/sharing stuff is pretty hollow if you can’t share with your brother that you just had this meaningful adult relationship (albeit with limes stuffed in the sink) and it made you think things about your life. Maybe that would be silly to share when you’re 18, but when you’re 34 years old it starts to seem really really fucked up.
I am now laughing at myself over how seriously I am discussing this.
and of course Anna the angel too.
She makes certain things “all right” for Dean. She’s otherworldly, but there’s an innocence there that mirrors his own. (Weirdly.)
He ends up talking to her about something he can’t talk to anyone else about. And she already knows.
And then he has the most tender gender-bendy sexual experience the show has ever shown – and it’s so intimate that I almost can’t watch it.
Dean as wounded victim/sex object (say what?) and Anna as sex buddy/healer. Dean on the bottom, of course. Anna hovering over him like … an angel? Yeah. Hard to picture Sam having sex like that. Man is a stand-up-in-the-corner-of-the-bathroom BEAST.
I have no idea how they even made that Anna/Dean sex scene work, to this day. It’s too much!
Anna was another one – in those batch of eccentric bizarre angels early on.
Not a ball-buster. She saw Dean’s sex-pot “Cherry Pie” dream and was amused by it, not judgey. He, of course, was mortified because come on, that’s embarrassing.
But again: his secret is safe with her.
Dean is so specific. Someone generic would not “get” him at all. And he wouldn’t be able to tolerate it. He’s too messed up. He can’t be intimate otherwise.
He dates Cassie for 10 days and then tells her his whole life story. Or it was probably less time than that.
He goes out with her once and then MUST spill the beans because he is flat-out in love with her.
Sam managed to date Jess for 3 years and never once share anything about his past.
Dean’s a softie. But don’t tell anyone.
For all his touchy feely ‘we need to talk’ moments, Sam is the fucking Fort Knox of relationships. Jess & Amelia both got nothing from him other than a general feeling of family dysfunction. Can you imagine dating him (and I do)? The bitey sex tornado part would be amazing but trying to unlock his emotional vault would have me beating my head against the nearest wall.
Paula:
// bitey sex tornado //
LOL.
Ironically, I think Sam would be a way better friends-with-benefits than Dean would be. At least in terms of the bitey-tornado part of it. If you’re going to hook up with someone once in a blue moon, it might as well be THAT as opposed to gentle-tender-look-at-my-scars intimacy. (But that’s probably just revealing my own proclivities, so moving on.)
Sam, though … yeah. He’s the kind of boyfriend that RUINS YOU. The only reason Amelia could tolerate it – and even liked it – was because she was equally a mess. (Limes in sink, and etc.)
Even the girls Dean dates where it doesn’t work out (e.g. all of them) … they seem to maintain some fondness for him. When he goes to knock on Lisa’s door, she always lets him back in.
Until he wipes her brain clean. (HATE that plot-point. Not because I found it painful or tragic or whatever – but because I found it to be a cop-out on the part of the writers who didn’t know how to get rid of her. It still bugs me. Like: Lisa has suddenly lost a year of her life? And the new guy she was dating was MURDERED in her own home – and presumably that would make at least the local news – and she would have no memory of any of it? Anyway, I’ll stop. It bugs me. At least up until that final scene: Lisa would always open her door to Dean.)
I suppose that’s true of Amelia too – who came to find Sam after she saw him looking thru the window.
Oh, what the hell, they’re both horrible heart-breakers, but I think Sam is worse.
I’d throw Dean’s relationship with Benny into that pile – I know it’s not romantic (except in fanfiction) but it was a relationship he built outside of and away from Sam’s influence, and it only went to shit when Sam was back in the picture. It was always interesting to me that the show went to such great lengths to show Sam and Dean each having their separate “others” while separated, but Dean’s disintegrated because of Sam; whereas Sam’s had actually ended before Dean returned, thanks to the magical reappearing husband. (I’m remembering that timeline correctly, aren’t I?) Point is, Dean can’t even maintain a separate friendship, much less a romance.
Benny was definitely Dean’s boyfriend, I’d say – maybe platonic, but with all those romantic intimate under/overtones – he definitely should be included! While Sam was breaking up with Amelia (or going into a Lysol-colored flashback-haze), Dean was breaking up with Benny (and going into a gritty hi-def dark-brown/green flashback-haze).
And yeah, definitely one of the deepest relationships Dean ever had with anyone!
Some people seem to think his relationship with Castiel goes deepest – but except for Castiel pulling him out of Hell, I find that relationship (at least in those first couple of seasons) to be mostly big brother/little brother. And now – for about 2 seasons (in my opinion) that relationship has been completely “played out.” It has no more resonance. Castiel is now really just support-staff to the brothers, taking on a Bobby role. I don’t feel the Dean/Cas thing as a force on the show anymore. (I actually think that’s a good thing. That whole thing got pretty annoying to me. I realize many many people don’t feel the same way, so I’m not saying that to hurt anyone’s feelings. Just my own take on it.)
I wonder if anyone else feels this way?
//the women Dean is attracted to are not a certain “type” – but they all are smart, capable, and … intuitive//
//It would not surprise me at all if Dean had other relationships he’s hiding … I mean, pancake-house school-dance girl from when he was 16. First kiss girl … I thought I knew Dean//
Yes, Robin! They shared their crazy dreams, not the same, but still shared – world travelling photographer for her and rock star for him. They also shared the less glitzy dreams. Dean totally gushes about how much he likes to work on cars. Any kid can say I wanna be a rock star, but its hard to admit you really like doing something ordinary. It speaks to their relationship being more than, “ooh she let me kiss her.”
And chronologically the next girl we see him with is closet girl in ‘After School Special’. Just cause she’s kissing him in the closet does not mean she’s a bimbo. She’s smart, respects her limits, and wants him to come meet her parents. She also totally SEES Dean and calls him out on his behavior.
PIE. Dean craves the wholesomeness of pie, not sticky, tasteless pie, but good, sweet, tangy fruit or velvety smooth cream and, yeah, a light, flaky crust is bonus. Totally a metaphor for the women he is drawn to.
These women surprise me in a good way, but I am not surprised by Dean. The personna of a man who has a wild past with women (or recreational drug use) is part of the armor he projects to protect himself.
//Dean’s a softie. But don’t tell anyone.//
I have often used this description of a man like Dean. He’s like the campfire marshmallow, charred, black, and hard on the outside, but soft, gooey, and sweet on the inside.
As for Amara, their interactions are a little like Dean’s first interactions with Robin. She’s the instigator and he’s completely befuddled like, “holy crap, what does she want with me?” I agree that I’m really glad he resists her. Of course he would initially respond to the physical, but he needs more than that. Good for “our” Dean! She doesn’t have a clue that he would be uncomfortable with her invading his personal space in their earlier encounters or that he, or anyone, would not want to have their soul sucked out to live forever one with her, or have the bliss and peaceful oblivion she offers. I feel the ‘Team Free Will” resurging here. She just does not understand Humanity or Dean.
// pancake-house school-dance girl from when he was 16.//
She’s always going to be ‘the pancake girl’ for me from now on.
Helena –
“Pancake girl” has a certain ring to it.
My friends and I often use shorthand for guys we’ve dated in the past – and then my friends will ONLY remember the shorthand, not the guy’s name.
“So wait, was that Douchebag Khakis guy?”
“No, that was Snotty Co-op Guy.”
“Oh, right. Snotty Co-op Guy.”
//Douchebag Khakis guy?”
“No, that was Snotty Co-op Guy.”//
We all have a douchebag snotbag or two in our lives.
My equivalent is Cutting Bleeding Edge guy (everything had to be Cutting Edge. And yet he used vocabulary such as ‘pooped’ to say he was tired, which is not cutting edge.
tl;dr pain in the butt.)
“Cutting Edge Guy” says he’s “pooped”?
Okay, that is so so funny. So not cutting edge.
The episode that bothers me (haunts me – to use Sheila’s word) is the one where we see young Sam meet the kitsune. Flash forward, and Sam spares her life because she had actually killed her own mother to save young Sam. I believe this was young Sam’s first kiss as well? They talked about running away together, briefly. Then – after hearing the whole story, Dean goes and kills her anyway, in front of her son. So maybe, even at 34, they still have good reason not to discuss women with each other!
Still, part of me thinks that was out of character for Dean – she saved Sam, wouldn’t she get a pass? In front of her kid, even if he’s likely a monster, too, seemed unlike Dean.
I think the part that bothered me the most is Dean refusing to trust Sam and his judgement in letting Amy live. And Sam got over that pretty quickly, I thought.
I’d be curious to hear what others here thought of that episode. I think it was the most up-setting one I ever saw.
Bainer, I see that Girl Next Door Episode as a really substantial building block in the”What makes a monster and who is the real monster” dialogue that SPN continually revisits with us. All monster stories are ultimately about the monstrous within ourselves. Sam shot Madison to SAVE her from becoming a monster. Amy was only rationalizing her monstrous actions proving that she would cross that line from Humanity to monstrosity given certain circumstances. To Madison and to Dean maintaining one’s Humanity in death is the only alternative to living as a monster. Sam’s line between human and monster has always been fuzzier and greyer. As Sam says, “We’re supposed to struggle with this, Dean.” I believe it is supposed to be really difficult to watch, but we have to watch it. These painful episodes are the price we pay for enjoying the other 150 episodes whacking the heads off vampires. What would it say about us otherwise?
She reminds me of a young Famke Janssen, from when I first saw her on Star Trek: The Next Generation as an alien who essentially “imprints” on Picard and becomes his perfect mate. It was a really bizarre concept – she was a being with no agency of her own and therefore took on the qualities that Picard loved best, and therefore gained agency because that’s what he respected. (And then she didn’t use it for some reason, I forget why exactly, but Famke Janssen herself was the most striking thing about that episode. I saw it once on its first run and never forgot her.)
To bring this back somewhere near the vicinity of the topic, Amara seems fascinated by Dean, but does that translate into giving him some ability to influence her? So far it doesn’t seem like it. When she started to suck out his soul, did she stop because she couldn’t, or because she changed her mind? If it was because she changed her mind then she somehow values him as an individual more than a piece of herself (like the other souls that are now part of her, and I swear to god if they cop out and put all those souls back in whatever bodies are remaining to them I’m going to throw something). If it’s because she couldn’t, I’d have expected to see some kind of reaction of shock and dismay, not immediate snogging.
But either way she hasn’t yet scratched the surface of how incredibly frustrating Dean Winchester can be to deal with when he digs his heels in on something, and go figure, but having his soul subsumed by an unearthly overwhelming force seems to be a hot button for him. :P
Maybe she moved in for the kiss BECAUSE he resisted her so completely.
It could be a turn-on for someone who is so powerful to finally meet her match.
That could be too. Plus she’s super impulsive but also inexperienced, so it does seem likely she’d just jump to the next action she felt like taking really quickly.
//BECAUSE he resisted her so completely. It could be a turn-on//
I really like this interpretation.
//having his soul subsumed by an unearthly overwhelming force seems to be a hot button for him. :P//
Tops of his “I’d Rather Die Than…” List.
#RedeemTheDarkness
Your description is awesome! And I agree. I love that you can see the lines in her forehead, you know? Even though they did not go with my first choice for Amara (that would be Diamanda Galas and every Amara episode would be a musical) I think this actress is pretty ~*fabulouuuuus*~!
Paula – I know, right? Sam’s obvious boner. Dean knowing he has a boner. I was so embarrassed. Sam lighting up when Bela walks in. HA. Oh, Jared.
The Angelina Jolie/Brad Pitt crack with the “no judgment” attached to it.
So silly, but I loved how discombobbled both of them were by Bela.
//Both of them suck on the woman question with one another. I get why, and it’s really interesting, but it’s still annoying. (I like it when the show annoys me, as long as it makes sense.)//
Exactly. These guys fight evil. They are seriously twisted characters who stab things and sometimes people for a living. Their lives are a horror show. So, since I care about these characters and their lives, I’m phenomenally pleased when they have any sort of positive relationship because in the real world that we live in, they would have been arrested and locked away long ago because the Winchester Brothers are charming, handsome serial killers with a penchant for grave robbing and corpse desecration. As someone once noted, these guys are the people that monster mommies warn their kids about.
hahahahaha
// the Winchester Brothers are charming, handsome serial killers //
so so true. I love that we love them so much and they are so so violent and out there.
This whole thing reminds me of Jessie’s imitation of what it must be like to be Agent Hendriksen trailing these guys. Were you around for that?
I will now give Jessie the floor:
I think every time they leave a motel their garbage bins are full of print-outs of crazy satanic woodcuts. How hilarious it would have been to watch Victor Henricksen travel behind them. “So they went to the library and photocopied twenty pictures out of a book on Appalachian folklore and looked at them for a while. Then they emptied a can of salt onto the carpet of their motel room. Then they walked around the victim’s house and had a D&M with his five-year-old. Then they bought a gong from a hippie shop and went and got drunk on top of a car in a park somewhere. Then they murdered three dudes and desecrated their corpses. Then they had a Dr Sexy MD marathon on pay-per-view and the next day they drove 3000 miles to some podunk town in Florida.”
I have probably read that comment 50 times and it never fails to amuse me.
Bless you Sheila! Although now I’m worried I’ve peaked too soon.
This thread is making me howl.
hahahahaha
I am talking about fictional characters as seriously as if I were their court-appointed therapist.
We all are.
The court has appointed ALL of us to diagnose what the hell is wrong with these people.
//I am now laughing at myself over how seriously I am discussing this.// So seriously invested. Not just court-appointed therapists but social workers knocking on their door, doing well checks. “Are you respecting each other’s boundaries?” “Sam, I’m glad to see you’re eating more” “Dean, it’s good to see you’ve cut back on the drinking”. Someone should pay us for all this work.
laughing out loud ….
LOL.
Jeez, at least Dean has stopped drinking kale smoothies and albino omelettes, or whatever that Season 10 abominations were. Unhealthy eating please!
Who fights the darkness with all their might but embrace their own “darkness” without a doubt? The Winchester Brothers.
Hmmm, pancake girls.
Melanie, you mentioned Closet Girl from After School Special (aka Kissing in Closets) which is an episode I have only watched once because Too Painful on behalf of Dean but also because it has Wrong-Faced Dean. But I noticed that kissing closet girl stopped the minute she mentioned Meeting the Parents, which would open a family-sized can of worms given how closed off, weird, and dysfunctional his own family is, and doesn’t he know it. So he cuts her off, and gets punished for it.
Man, I will never watch that episode again.
I just re-watched it – I think it’s on my viewing diary last month? I agree about Wrong-Faced Dean, which then translates to Wrong-Essence Dean. He’s too dead-eyed. It’s not right. Definitely difficult shoes to fill – but they’ve found the right young Dean now – and it just makes that episode look worse.
Dean as Gym Teacher is very funny, though (“WALK IT OFF”).
and I wasn’t crazy about the Dean love-triangle and then getting-punished either with her big speech in the hallway that’s supposed to “reveal” him, etc. – although I think if they had a more transparent actor, it could have worked – he could have shown that ambivalence in the character which is so important.
(also, that girl was super-generic. If they were going for “Dean as sexually precocious floozy”, it seems like he would clock immediately that a girl like that would give him trouble. Who knows. It didn’t work for me. Except for young Sam’s whole thing – and that poor bullied kid – which the whole episode was about really. AND the fact that the bully in the school you learn later had nursed his mother while she was dying. I thought that was a good – and ambivalent – twist. Nobody knows what’s going on with another person. Not to excuse the bully, but sometimes there’s a lot of stuff going on there that should be addressed/healed. I love young Sam. Sweet soul.)
Great points.
I guess we all have our episodes which We. Can’t. Even and this is one for me, whatever other interesting things were going on in it. Not even the presence of young Colin Ford can make me watch it. :-(
Don’t get me wrong about Closet girl and Wrong Dean. The ep was clearly about Sam, friend, and bully so no depth was wasted on either of the others.
//“Dean as sexually precocious floozy”, it seems like he would clock immediately that a girl like that would give him trouble.//
I think what I was getting at is that Dean is drawn to higher quality women, but the sexual floozy act does NOT work with them. It reminds me of Danny and Sandy in Grease. Here’s Dean trying to act all cool like the Fonze, but, like Danny, he’s flustered because he doesn’t really know how to act with the Sandy kind of girl/woman. I would like to think he’s gotten better at it over the next 20 years, but he managed to sabotage his relationship with Lisa and what we’re seeing with Amara is more of that flustered, unsure, cluelessness in the face of this beautiful, strong, confident woman/goddess who obviously wants him.
Definitely found the right Young Dean.
Wrong Essence is a great way to put it – a face can work if an actor gets the essence right. The New Approved Dean gets something really right, or just shares something with JA, the ability to be vulnerable, be goofy, to work his eyebrows. And New Sammy is as cute as a bag of kittens, yet savvy too, same as the other young Sam.
Aces on The New Approved Dean and cute as a bag of kittens New Sammy.
Helena – Is aces as cutting edge as pooped?
I’m not cutting edge, so I guess not :-(
Oops, misread your comment, Paula.
‘Aces’ transcends mere Cutting Edge-ness, Paula, and we are all aces here.
Ha ha ha! After the Plush episode I kept thinking of my daughter’s college mascot, Ace (Evansville Aces). He was a sinister looking, cheating riverboat gambler with aces in his hatband. He looked like a creepy cross between James Garner’s Mavrick and Snidely Whiplash. It was she who introduced me to yourmascotsucks.com.
It all comes back to yourmascotsucks.com.
Veering off from the endlessly fascinating topic of Women + Winchesters, Season 11 is the one for which I’ve developed the SPN Early Warning System. This is a way of summing up an episode without describing it, so if a friend hasn’t seen it but wants to know if they need to be very drunk first (Bloodlines, I’m looking at you) or if they can relax and enjoy the episode, or even cancel all engagements, then the Winchester EWS comes into play.
So it goes like this:
5= A Farting Nun. After Season 10’s gaseous cloud of an episode. Walk around it gingerly and hold your nose. Blech. (Luckily there are very few of these.)
4= a Dog Day, after Season 9’s talking dog ep. Starts off well but kinda falls off a cliff halfway through. Maybe creates a great premise, but then muffs it. (you may disagree with the choice of ep, but you know what I mean.)
3 = ‘Dakota 8’ – after the spouse of poor Lester of S10. Well made, without being particularly inspiring.
2 = ‘Legs’ episode – after the famous Winchester Legs Moments, ergo an episode which is very Legs=Very Excellent. Brilliant script, great acting, bags of sparks. Humour, scares, action, feels. Every season premiere should be Legs.
1- A ‘Baby’ – Perfection. A Mount Olympus of Beauty wreathed in clouds of Feelz. A Halley’s comet of an ep, comes round once in while and showers you with awe.
Season 11 is doing well on the scale so far. Does anyone else have such a thing? Please do share!
Hoping that your scoring system will be used in future episodes, please!
Winchester EWS is so good. Dakota 8 is cracking me up. I didn’t even remember her name which is perfect uninspiring. S11 is raring Baby-Legs so far.
Give me Baby Legs!
http://blog.ecostore.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/baby-legs-lying-on-blanket-bw-1024×668.jpg
I don’t expect to see Baby crop up on the 2015 best-of lists (although I haven’t had the time to read much further than the AVC when it comes to TV) and that’s a real shame I think. It was exciting, inventive, very very funny, and saturated with feeling. It did something TV can, when we’re lucky, do spectacularly well, which is build on a staggering number of hours of character (and plot) investment to create a work of art that not only unpicks the object but has as its subject your attachment to the object.
Fan Fiction did this too. Sheila has been talking a lot (of very smart stuff) about self-indulgence lately and what a bad rep it gets. Baby and Fan Fiction were absolutely unabashed about indulging in the richness of their own history and the depth of our investment. Something that more respectable shows would find beneath them, or less sensitive shows would turn into a mercenary opportunity. And those two episodes (and, I venture, others like Playthings) were, I think, works of genius in the same way I think other works — The Black Stallion, Disney’s Sleeping Beauty, HMS Surprise, Finn the Wolfhound, de Heer’s The Tracker, Zappa’s Billy the Mountain, every vocal track Maddy Prior ever laid down for Span — are works of genius. Immaculately constructed in a way I could passionately defend but too deeply, somatically personal to ever really be able to convey how they are, how the potency of their meaning actually emerges. In all instances but most especially when stuff becomes you, what you have in your head and hands is something only you will ever be able to see.
So yeah I think a lot of critics and readers are going to be missing out on something unique and fascinating when they start compiling their lists this year. Like, there is a moment in Baby that I think ought to be taught in TV School or whatever. At the beginning. Sam and Dean driving, doing research. Sam throws out a line about their destination. And then they DON’T CUT AWAY. I was floored. And I was expecting it! Hell, I’ve rewatched it! And I was/am still flabbergasted at that interruption in the normal rhythms of editing. The characters just start talking about stuff. That lack of cut was more than anything else THE signal that what was going to happen here was going to be different and was going to be as much about our relationship to the show and to Sam and Dean (and the car) as it was about their relationship to each other. It is a superb example of what television as television, as the actual formal nuts and bolts of serialised storytelling, can do and what it can be used for.
Bringing it back around to the latest episode, the Sam/Lucifer conversations had my guts churning in horror, pity and delight. Been a long time since I felt that on this show — to be captivated by the potential of a scene and then have exceed its promise. Particularly in the realm of queasy eroticism. It’s gonna go down as one of my favourite sequences from the entire thing, I think; that a show in season 11 can bring us fresh pleasures such as Decoy Robert Mitchum, Sparkleface, and those dash-mounted shots of Dean’s face in Baby, as well as episodes/sequences that indulge in and build on the show’s history such as Baby and Bunk Buddies is a real miracle. And we’re not even halfway done!
The Winchester Early Warning System once saved my flea circus from being destroyed in an earthquake and the other day it barked at me until I remembered I left the stove on. It may not be the EWS we deserve, but it’s the one we need.
My own personal rating system is in base three and measures the degree to which Sam and Dean mack on each other. 0 = no macking. 1 = Playthings- or Sex and Violence-level macking. 2 = Mack City. Unfortunately by my reckoning the show is SO FAR rather terrible. But we surely have another eleven seasons ahead of us and they gotta fill air time somehow so who knows, ladies and gentlemen. Who knows. The potential for greatness is there.
I wish I had a barking W-EWS, that would be so cool. Or maybe a kangaroo, like Skippy, which could communicate its opinions in a series of clicks and paw-waving. ‘What’s that, Skippy? The Winchesters got stuck down an abandoned mineshaft with a monologuing villain AGAIN?‘ Click, pawwave, click. ‘And there’s no macking? WTF, Skip???’
WHAT IS THE POINT OF MINESHAFTS IF THERE IS NO MACKING HONESTLY
they are specifically DESIGNED for it #jeezgetwiththeprogramWinchesters
Bainer – Let’s start a new thread on your thought above on eps you can’t watch again. I agree about The Girl Next Door (despite it’s excellent start with “A monster broke my leg” and the telenovela “suicido”). Dean’s hardness towards Amy and killing her in front of her son (that kid comes back a la Cole in the next few years) combined with the fact that Amy killed three men and Sam is a softy about it. After School Special had the same nostalgia and the same set-up as to a monster that deserves our pity, but I enjoyed that one so much more even with Wrong Faced Dean.
I’ll also never watch Heaven and Hell again for the reason mentioned upthread by Sheila about the Dean-Anna love scene. Too much intimacy. Too uncomfortable.
Be curious about how others feel.
There are 2 episodes I never watched at all: Route 666 (had zero curiosity about Dean and Cassie and a racist truck) and Bloodlines… nuff said. I will never rewatch the following:
Heaven & Hell – Dean/Anna sex made me uncomfortable
Hammer of the Gods – Gabriel & Kali love story? Yawn and no bueno
Unforgiven – Spider men? But I liked the Sam flashbacks
Man’s Best Friend with Benefits – The horror, the horror
Remember the Titans – No thanks, don’t wanna remember them. Filler
The Devil You Know – I was thrown out of the story by Crowley’s giant, invisible hellhound. Dumb, I know
Paint It Black – Another bad filler ep
I agree that the spider men story in Unforgiven was not memorable at all but those flashbacks are gold. Soulless Sam beating Deputy Dawg so badly that even Samuel was disturbed. We knew Soulless was a liar and had no empathy but those scenes were a reminder that even when his life or well being wasn’t threatened, he was not a good man. These were so uncomfortable to watch the first time but fascinating on rewatch.
And bathroom sex. So much more watchable than Dean and Anna making sweet love to Bad Company.
Okay, I’ll play. In no particular order, my never rewatch list:
The Curious Case of Dean Winchester – though Sam’s performance at the end is pretty good.
Bloodlines – nuff said.
Shut up, Dr. Phil – Loved Buffy and Angel, but enough already.
Bugs – nuff said.
Man’s Best Friend w/Benefits – besides the creep factor, I just didn’t care.
Criss Angel is a Douchbag – Even the title is stupid.
After School Special – The actor who played young Dean didn’t work for me.
How interesting! I gotta say, I LOVE Criss Angel is A Douchebag and I enjoy rewatching it. I was just thinking about this the other day, how it can be overlooked. It’s one of those episodes that focusses on the guest cast more than the guys but it’s not formally striking in the way that Weekend at Bobby’s is (or atrocious in the way that Bloodlines is). It’s just a really solid tale with good characters and great actors (Barry Bostwick! Michael Weston! Richard Libertini!). It has a great mood and some good jokes (Dean going to see the Chief…). And because I’m a terrible human being I love the title and I wish for a hundred more dumb titles like it.
The Chief. You’re really gonna get it, big boy. Way over the line into twisty-sexual. I love it.
I’ll bite. I suppose technically I don’t have a never-rewatch list- I even rewatched Bloodlines just to write a meta about it- but if I did…
1. Bloodlines. Supernatural may be bad occasionally, but it should never, ever be generic.
2. Bugs. Nuff said. (Although, Kim Manners.)
3. Man’s Best Friend With Benefits. Weird kinky stuff aside, I just find it pretty boring.
Don’t slay me, but I actually found Paint It Black pretty entertaining. Bad, but not boring, and I really like the crypt scene. Criss Angel Is A Douchebag never did it for me personally, though it has its moments. (The Chief! Oh god.)
Wren I was getting ready to reply and then I realized your list is exactly my list and for pretty much the exact same reasons!
For the past several months I’ve been rewatching Supernatural with my husband. We are up to season 8 and the other night I had to watch Man’s Best Friend With Benefits again…..yeah it was as bad as I remembered.
I admit I do have certain episodes that I avoid rewatching simply because of the pain factor. Dark Side of the Moon is one of those for me. I know that episode was excellent, written well and acted amazingly but I just can’t watch it. That one hurts me worse than Swan Song.
Michelle, I know that feeling. Though Swan Song probably hurts me worse than DSotM. I also rarely rewatch No Rest For The Wicked, Mystery Spot, Metamorphosis etc- and then there’s the episodes that are painful but also enormous fun, i.e the entire Demon Dean arc.
Oh, and now Libertini has passed away. What a bummer.
This is exactly why I love this blog besides the fact that everybody is smart and interesting. I agree with you that the guests are great and the story is interesting but there isn’t enough focus on either the boys or a strong enough MOTW for me. But one of my favorite episodes , Clap If You Believe, is definitely considered lightweight to others. To each his own. With over 200 episodes, we have plenty of choice.
Carolyn, Clap Your Hands is my number one go to rewatch episode! “Ground Control to Major Tom” is a favorite music cue. The one liners are amazing, Dean as Jiminy Cricket, Soulless Sam banging the hippie chick, Xfiles references, and Winchesters considering ETs and fairies as monsters. Love it!
Yes! And let’s not forget Dean’s description of the fight with the “little hot fairy w/ nipples.” Hilarious.
This is interesting! Some eps are on the list because they are written/acted badly and then there’s the squick episodes that are so individual. My squick eps are:
Time Is On My Side – Doc Benton and Sam so desperate to think this is the right thing to do? No.
The Rapture – Not a bad fan of angels but seeing reality after possession? No.
And Then There Were None – Grandpa Campbell and what he did to his grandsons. I should have been glad he died but it just made me nauseous. And they killed Gwen. Not cool.
*big fan not bad fan. Guess that makes me a bad fan too.
Have to say, Road Trip squicks me pretty hard. Because a) needles and b) needles and c) NEEDLES, but also the whole Gadreel-Abner thing? Really painful. And the Gadreel-washing-hands-of-blood scene… it’s all just quite disturbing.
Also. Needles.
Can I just add to this discussion how deeply I appreciate the complete lack of judgmentalism going on? That no one is attaching values to liking or disliking particular episodes? It’s just a real treat.
I’ve found that I don’t really have a never-rewatch list. Even episodes that I dislike as a whole have at least a couple of solid scenes that I can enjoy (“Bugs” is the prime example of this–once the case gets going it all falls apart, but Dean calling Sam “honey” and slapping his butt? Squatting in a house just to try the steam shower? Gold). I do however have a very short have-not-yet-managed-to-make-myself-watch-it list–which is made up exclusively of the “Cas is human” episodes from season 9.
I stand by my belief that “Bloodlines” is actually a crossover episode and not Supernatural at all, but it does have the merit of being absolutely gorgeous in certain scenes. “Man’s Best Friend With Benefits” also feels more like a crossover than a real SPN episode, due in part to how the guy they’re supposedly helping is a complete non-character. Given how excellent the show usually is with even two-line exposition parts, he really stands out in boring contrast.
There’s one saving grace in “Bloodlines”, and that’s the shot of Baby driving down that Chicago street–you’re right, it was gorgeous. Wasn’t the shot of Sam and Dean leaning up on the trunk on a dark street also from that episode? This is the one I’m thinking of: http://tinyurl.com/pt4elx8
Yeah, and there was a cool song used and also the Padahair was strong. :) Now I feel that I have been fair and can go on happily judging the episode for all I am worth.
Hey, I’m in the process of completely rewriting it for fun, so no contest here–as an episode of SPN it’s … not an episode of SPN. :P
It’s not even a bad episode, it’s just not an episode at all.
No argument here. That’s the sum total of my thoughts on the episode, too. Would love to see your rewrite, though! (Love your pen name, btw–that’she one of my favorite books.)
There are very few episodes that I just won’t rewatch because they are painful, but there are a few that I just don’t care enough about to waste the time, so…
-Jump the Shark! I vow never to watch that again. I hate Adam, sorry/not really sorry.
-Metamorphosis – although I quoted it above they pushed the ethical “do we kill the soon to be monster” issue too hard to the detriment of the story in my book.
-I Believe the Children are our Future – weird vibe, intoduced this hugely powerful “antichrist” character, Jesse, and then promptly dropped him, just doesn’t feel right and isn’t a fun episode either even with the itching powder and poprocks. Just…ick.
-Man’s Best Friend…agree with everyone
-Sharp Teeth – Werewolves aren’t doing it for me and Garth as a werewolf is just…”hug?”… ummm no!
Finally, I’m pretty sure I won’t rewatch Brother’s Keeper. It feels so contrived wrapping up all the arcs, Death offering to send Dean to outer space, then the show-down between Dean and Sam was so not what I wanted it to be, and Sam on his knees crying, then the jumping water Darkness. It had some great moments, but I just won’t go there again.
I actually really like Metamorphosis, Jump The Shark and I Believe The Children Are Our Future. I have to say, though, it’s kinda refreshing to hear that SOMEBODY hates Adam. (So sick of people whinging about him being stuck in the cage.)
Confession time: Brother’s Keeper was clumsy as hell, but I actually… kinda loved it.
Melanie – I’m with you on the anti Christ Jesse. So, after some awkward bonding with the Winchesters, this all-powerful orphan disappears to a beach in Australia, never to be spoken of again. Huh.
Adam always felt contrived to me. I guess I get why they did it with the direction they were taking the story, but yeah…way too convenient.
I 100% agree with the Jesse character. That one was just weird.
The whole Jesse thing was really weird–it’s like they had this idea for an antichrist figure, started playing with it, and then realized that it could very easily break the show. But because they’d already scheduled the intro episode, they had to do something with it. Of course, this is all crit-fic, but it’s a very odd episode and sort of begs for a behind-the-scenes explanation.
I do adore the joy-buzzer scene, though.
“I had a hunch. I went with it.”
Proves there are redeeming moments in even the worst (or most uncomfortable) episodes.
That’s one thing I hugely appreciate about this show (I’ve been watching a lot of SFdebris’ deconstructions of the really, really AWFUL Star Trek episodes, where there’s nothing to make them worth even existing)–every episode has at least one thing I love dearly about it. And part of it is the strength of Sam and Dean as characters and their relationship–and Jared and Jensen’s strengths as actors. Even when handed the occasional sub-par scripts, they still manage to do interesting things; and the stable of directors is also robust enough to do some salvage work.
OK everybody, inline with Sam’s theme for season 11 – #RedeemEverything – lets find the redeeming factors to these squick episodes. For example:
#RedeemBugs – squatter, steamshower gold
#RedeemBloodlines – Baby goes to Chicago and strong padahair
#RedeemIBtCAOF – joy buzzer schtick
You get the idea…
#RedeemPaintItBlack- the confession scene! The wonderful hair of the Florentine ghost! The hamster necklace! The sassy nun! The winsync!
#RedeemJumpTheShark – Sam brushing his teeth, with a bottle of mouthwash on Baby’s hood. Dean prying himself out of the car after a night of awkward sleeping. The beauty and desolation of the location. The tuna fish sandwich.
I adore that scene so much I could just watch it on repeat.
The redeeming power of Sam’s purple toothbrush. This is one of my favorites too. Why purple every time? Do they have a color coding system? Does Dean always use blue and they clean guns with green?
#RedeemMBFWB Sam’s face when the dog jumps on the bed and he gives the cutest belly rubs. It’s sweet for a brief moment and then…eeew.
Did we ask the toothbrush question before? My hazy sick mind can’t remember but it’s ringing a bell.
I gotta say- the bit where Sam tries to explain to Dean ‘She wanted a belly rub’ makes me snigger. It probably shouldn’t and no doubt there’s a bunch of feminists somewhere getting angry over that scene, but whatevs.
Ok also #ReedeemMBFWB was Sam’s desperate plea to Dean about the “dog” staying and then the look on Dean’s face when he peeks in and sees the woman and he looks at Sam and says “Yeah she can stay the night.”
That was what I meant, haha
I vowed N E V E R , but Sam
earning those ADA kickbacks with his purple toothbrush and WakeyUppy Dean (always a beautiful little show of its own) starving, but not enough to eat that tuna sandwich… I had to rewatch that much. I also found a clip of Dean escaping the crypt with some serious LEG action. So, yeah, #Redeemed.
#RedeemBrother’sKeeper (though I actually liked it)- Julian Richings. Lamp abuse. ‘Close your eyes, Sammy.’ OPTs. The fact that there is a tiny time-gap and when it ends SOMEONE has wiped the blood from Sam’s face.
Bringing the shallow… while I adore the Leg Moments, yesterday TNT aired an episode with one of my favorite Face Moments. It’s a Terrible Life has a scene where Dean/JA is beyond ethereal.
They are wheeling out the dude who committed suicide by microwave. All the employees are standing around in horror/grief, when the camera homes in on Sam, then Dean, who share a look across the office. Dean is in a dapper suit and his face is the sound of angels singing. He’s a bit tan, his lips are pink and his hair is combed back and I die. https://scifichicks.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/417-dean.jpg
Ugh, guys, I’m so behind it’s not even worth trying to write a comment. But I had so much pleasure reading you!
Funny, I re-watched Heaven and Hell very recently. I love the scene. But yeah, I hadn’t re-watched in a while, and probably won’t for some time. What hurts more than the love scene, for me, is just the few seconds of Dean going “I can’t talk about this.” Oh, my heart!
Because I’m in the mood to have my heart broken and go down memory lane, I re-watched a few episodes of Angel, season 5 (yay, Ben Edlund!!). Just like for Supernatural, there are episodes I can’t re-watch. I mean, I can, but I have to be ready, and I need to NEED it. Don’t know if it makes sense. Swan Song, What Is and What Should Never Be, Free To Be You And Me (a personal favourite) for SPN, A Whole In The World, You’re Welcome in Angel… I can’t!
I hope you’re all having wonderful holidays.
Lyrie, I’m in the same boat as you. My recorder’s digital tuner has been…”whimsical” lately and doesn’t always catch the right digital channel to record. I got home in time to catch most of the eps, but I missed “Just My Imagination” until I caved in and downloaded the CW app to watch. (Boo.) And I refuse to watch them out of order.
And being in the mood to have your heart broken totally makes sense to me. In fact, “Heaven and Hell” is my go-to SPN heartbreaker. The ones you listed also work fine, but Jensen Ackles’ performance in the last five minutes of H&H, where Dean confides to Sam what happened to him in Hell, man, that gets me every damn time. The break in his voice when he says, “…but then I couldn’t do it anymore, Sammy.” Damn you, JA. (I believe this was the scene that they had to hold up filming because Jensen needed extra time between takes to stop sobbing and to convince his body that he was not a devastated hell-survivor.)
Ditto for me on your Angel Season 5/Ben Edlund appreciation. At least Edlund’s off-brand-muppet-y “Smile Time” goes between the pain-peaks of “You’re Welcome” and “A Hole in the World.” (Whenever I watch AHitW, I need to watch “Shells” and “Underneath”, too. I guess I’m just not heartbroken enough until I hear “A Place Called Home” at the end of Shells. And then I have to watch the Wesley/Illyria conversations in Underneath. e.g. Upon hearing that nightmares no longer exist outside of human minds, she says, “I wonder who they angered so, to merit such a fate.”)
Regarding “never again” episodes: I will re-watch most episodes in a series I’m
obsessed withinterested in. I’m sort of a completist, so an episode will have to be *extremely* tedious or unpleasant before I give up on it or skip it in the rotation. Off the top of my head for SPN, it’s Buck-Lemming’s “Heartache” (tedious) and MBFwB (unpleasant) from season 8, Dabb’s “Bloodlines” (tedious) from season 9, and Charmelo-Snyder’s “Halt & Catch Fire” (tedious) from season 10.So far, so good for season 11. I’ll re-watch everything. (I’ve already re-watched “Baby” a couple of times. ILU, Robbie Thompson.)
Hope the few people who end up reading this have a very happy holiday season!
#RedeemHaltandCatchFire: The cold open, with the Siri voice ordering the girl out of the truck and then the truck crashing into the title card. Dean’s “I’m not gonna make it”–surrounded by college girls.
I can’t even think about A Hole in the World without tearing up! Same with The Body from Buffy (true story–I watched that while the boys were napping, so many years ago, and began crying about half-way through. Ugly crying, even. And in the midst of it all, my doorbell rang. Girl Scouts. And they’d seen me through a somewhat open curtain, so I had to answer it. Not pretty. :-) )
For SPN, it’s Death’s Door, and also Abandon All Hope. That last scene from Death’s Door kills me, every time.
Barb,
Death’s Door is so painful for me I usually forget it exists. The first time I watched SPN, I binged-watched, so didn’t really realize what had happened there, on a personal level. When I re-wtached it, there’s this one line that made me lose it completely, and then I could not NOT understand. Have never re-watched the episode again.
Re: The Body: those damn Girl Scouts! I feel you.:)
Barb,
Re your #RedeemHalt&CatchFire: I have to admit that the Dean & college girls thing kinda squicked me because he’s about twice their age (36) at this point in the series. (Just like his “which cheerleaders are 18” comment squicked me 6 years earlier in “Afterschool Special”. However, that episode was strong enough in other areas to overcome the squick plus the “wrong-essence” teen!Dean for me.)
But totally agree with you on your other heartbreak eps.
“The Body” from BtVS, however, is a different kind of heartbreak for me than all those others. There’s no storytelling or genre distance to it. It’s just raw, immediate, music-less, sometimes awkward, always real, somehow even including the walking metaphor in the morgue. I have to be in a certain mood to watch it, so sometimes I’ll skip it and then come back to it. I’ll always eventually come back to it, though, because I think it’s great and it’s important to the characters and series as a whole. (And a great hour of television, period.)
And man, if Girl Scouts had come to my house while I was watching “The Body,” I probably would have opened the door a few inches and tossed a couple of dollars out while sobbing “‘k, thanks, bye!” to make them go away ASAP. (And they would be so weirded out that they would never come back.)
Re: The “squick” factor–I get that, and I heard a LOT of online chatter about the fact that Dean is so much older than the girls in that episode. I still think it’s funny. Maybe because I am older still, and can squick myself out on occasion–for example, if I think too hard about the age difference between me and the J’s. Besides, he might have looked, but he didn’t hit on anyone during the episode. No harm.
As for The Body–I think you’ve described it perfectly. There’s a sense, too, of time standing still, of time being wrapped up inside all the little details that are meaningless but so very important at the same time. It is a great episode on any scale, but one I have only brought myself to watch twice.
//I probably would have opened the door a few inches and tossed a couple of dollars out while sobbing “‘k, thanks, bye!”// LOL, would that I had had the presence of mind!
//#RedeemHalt&CatchFire: I have to admit that the Dean & college girls thing kinda squicked me because he’s about twice their age//
This squeak factor was #redeemed for me because Dean was even more excited by the college dining facility (“serve your own froyo!”) than he was by the endless parade of hot college chicks. Dean enjoying his food makes him forget girls, moc, anything. I also love in the episode wrap up (“BM”) the way he owned the mark and said the answer was inside him. I think this set me up for my disappointment in the moc resolution and Sam’s efforts.
//Ugly crying, even.//
That’s what happens to me with ‘Abandon All Hope’ – there’s never any or enough tissues, but I love to rewatch anyway.
Hellatus is over – new episode to talk about. (Sheila said that if she forgets to start a new episode thread, use the last one)
Wasn’t that opening hilarious! I cracked up so much during those precious minutes. Anyway, this newest episode packed a lot of stuff into 40-whatever minutes: Lucifer, Rowena, Crowley, Cas, young Sam, Amelia and Riot the dog, protective Dean, new angel, snarky Amara. It was nice to see Colin Ford and I think Mark P. always brings menace and creep factor to his portrayal.
I have to watch again because I had to sit after the ep to understand why Lucifer was showing Sam his past. I heard him tell Sam that he used to be a hero, and he wants to use Sam to fight Amara, but it was kind of muddled in a lot of flashbacks and I guess my mind wandered. Lucifer wants to use Sam as a vessel. He can still only use Sam as his puppet? I thought that was only for the apocalypse, not for ALL of his fights. Can’t Rowena get Lucifer out and then have him wreak havoc as his own entity?
The Cas scenes in the woods with the new angel were not engaging to me. Even when Amara showed up, I just didn’t focus too much. Amara as a character just doesn’t catch my interest. Maybe when she gets into it with Cas…. we’ll see. I’m interested in how Lucifer/Cas does with his newfound freedom and how he’ll dick with the Winchesters.
I hope that this is not the last we see of Rowena and Billie – both kickass females.
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//why Lucifer was showing Sam his past// That whole string of scenes between Sam and Lucifer threw me off a little at first because he’s complimenting him and then degrading him over and over. What I find interesting is that he becomes so aggressive in his passive aggressive manipulations. Like he’s just done with the game, done with working the greatest hits of the Sam guilt train and most of all done with Sam talking about Dean. Brother issues, right? Certainly none of his brothers came to rescue him while imprisoned in the Cage the first time.
Briana Buckmaster tweeted her her audition script. How awesome is that? I love the notes!
Those scripts notes are pretty cool. Wouldn’t you love to have a beer with her?
“Don’t worry about Sam” “I’m sorry, have you met me?” Hilarious. Crowley yelling out “Don’t” when Dean runs out after hearing Sam in pain. Dean’s phone shows calls from Crowley and his contact is ‘666’. I love these two. Of course, Crowley’s a survivor so I guess his phone number will now going into Cas-ifer’s phone (or whatever this will be called).
I didn’t really see Lucifer in Cas in that last scene (like I saw it with Sam in The End or Swan Song). It felt more like Leviathan Cas. Was I the only one?
//Wouldn’t you love to have a beer with her?//
Totally.
//“Don’t worry about Sam” “I’m sorry, have you met me?” Hilarious. //
Haha, yes!
// Dean’s phone shows calls from Crowley and his contact is ‘666’. I love these two. //
I loved their quiet conversation about family last season. I love these too two. I wish I knew more about their time together, or at least I’d like to see more of the embarrassment when that time is evoked. It’s never not fun and intriguing.
//I didn’t really see Lucifer in Cas in that last scene (like I saw it with Sam in The End or Swan Song). It felt more like Leviathan Cas. Was I the only one?//
Yeah, I really don’t know what to think of that, honestly. I’m waiting for the next episode to decide if I’m convinced or not. I’m curious about what the others think too.
Let’s talk about hell. Last season, when the cheap gothic decor was introduced, I was excited: I thought it was very amusing to see what came out of Crowley’s imagination. Because to me, a guy who can disappear with just a snap and rules over hell could create his environment. I was so disappointed when that lame place came back, more or less the same, every week, with whiny corporate demons. Yuk.
Then, they said it was not hell, but an abandoned place Crowley liked better. Sure guys, we’ll play along and pretend you didn’t mess up. And now, we’re actually going to actual hell?
I don’t like it. I don’t want to see it. It will never be as scary and messed up as it is in my head. That’s where Dean disappeared and was hanging by meat hooks and was forced to do God knows what by Alastair – to this day, nothing and no one in the show scares the shit out of me like Alastair. Fucking creep. And that because we don’t KNOW. And the aftermaths on Sam, the hallucinations, the sleep deprivation… Shivers. THAT’S hell for me. I don’t want to see it. I don’t want to see them swinging by as if it were just some sort of camp where they spent a vacation that sucked one summer. Come on!
Well, I’ll just point out that they’re still not showing us “actual” Hell–in response to Rowena’s comment about the lack of ambiance, Crowley specifically says that they’re visiting Limbo. So I think the writers/set designers are trying to make Hell usable for plot reasons without sacrificing (all) of its horror/mystery.
For me, it works, but everyone’s mileage will vary.
//no one in the show scares the shit out of me like Alastair// I’m with you on that. He and Azazel were both so menacing, but what made them even more disturbing was underlying all the torture they dispensed was that sense of pride they had in their respective Winchester boys (Dean as the “star pupil” and Sam as “my favorite”). Creepy paternal coddling.
//I don’t want to see them swinging by as if it were just some sort of camp where they spent a vacation that sucked one summer// Hahahaha, Camp Inferno? It was confusing because they referred to it as Hell several times but then we know that wasn’t really the Cage (more like the green room to the Cage?)
No one is talking about Michael. I doubt that the most powerful angel was sidelined by five years in the Cage with his little brother. I hope they give us more than that.
RIP Rowena. No more grrrl power coven.
//Hahahaha, Camp Inferno// – memories of girl scout summer camp down south…
//No one is talking about Michael… I hope they give us more than that// – We need to do some Paulanie mind magic to make this happen. Concentrate…
The demon ‘A’ game trifecta: Alastair, Azazel, and Abbadon. They were all so good. Alastair’s nasally needling makes my skin crawl just thinking about it.
Yeah, I know it’s not THE cage, and it’s not Hell-hell. Still, I was not a big fan of the place. Not that it was not well done. I don’t know, maybe I just miss the very simple (and — literally — cheap) tricks that left so much for the imagination, like the sounds of flapping wings to announce the arrival of an angel, for instance. Supernatural is so good at not showing, and I guess I miss that. Sorry guys, I’m probably just a wet blanket.:)
Episode 11:11 Into the Mystic – Dean is the vulnerable one in the room – SHOCKER!
Other than that I hate to say it, but I think we’re being softened up for an endgame. In Baby, Sam is wondering/longing for more. Here Dean wants to make a reservation for the retirement home and is eager for advice on the secret to a long happy life from the beautiful Dee Wallace. Funny that both he and Sam reject the idea when the other brings it up but Sam is putting the brochure away in his “hope chest”. I also recently rewatched the confession scene from the Exploding Nuns episode where Dean confesses to longing for a different life. Also in this episode Sam brings up the “going out in a blaze of glory” final scenario which both actors have repeatedly embraced. I hope I’m wrong, but how could I deny them an escape to happiness if that is what’s in store?
I rewatched Into the Mystic. My heart sank as Mildred told Dean how she had loved entertaining people all those years then one day her heart said “enough” and she got out and never looked back. “Follow your heart, Dean”. Either they are teasing us or laying the groundwork for the series end. Also Sam keeps rehearing Lucifer’s words, “You have to be willing to watch your loved ones die.” NOOOOOOOO! I hope following his heart means something other than giving in to Amara. She’s not really his heart. She represents that whole being compelled by the universe to do its bidding – the opposite of team free will. On the other hand if the peaceful bliss she offers is what his heart wants more so than going out on the wrong end of a blade or a gun…well shit!
Bowlegs in the Bunker Alert for “Into the Mystic”! (Can that be part of the Supernatural EWS? Legs Moments?)
The flare of Dean’s suit jacket accenting his urgency, followed by that hard right down the bunker hallway with the 1911 in hand? Got me waaay more excited than the climactic scene with the CGI Banshee. Especially since we know more than Dean about the menace waiting for him in the form of his “friend.” Run the other way, Dean!
I’d just like to bring up a few theories on who they could use against Amara and if they don’t use any of these, then we can only speculate as to who they will team up with or how they could possibly end this threat and hopefully keep “the family” business going. I have seen every episode of the series and I hope to never see an end to one of the best shows I’ve ever loved. But we all know that all good things eventually come to an end (just hope the end is not anytime soon!). Anyways, here’s a few characters from the past who could possibly come into play; In the episode,”I Believe the Children Are Our Future”, Jesse is what Cass calls the “Antichrist”. He’s so powerful and viewed as a threat for his abilities, but if he’s so powerful then he seems like a great character to seek out and bring back as an addition to the team. Then there’s Chuck. What ever happened to Chuck? They don’t really explain as to what happened to him, only that he’s no longer with us. But thinking back to their journey to find god, the Winchester duo is told that God is still with us, but on Earth somewhere and aware of the threat of the apocalypse. Chuck has been speculated to be a number of things, but we have no straight answer as to who or what he was other that a profit. One clue that always strikes me as odd is how Cass refers to Chucks Supernatural novels as “The Winchester Gospel”. Strange that he would know that they would become a part of a new bible. After his supposed demise, we meet Kevin, the new profit. Now why was the only ability that Kevin had as a profit was to translate the word of God? Chuck had the ability to see into the future. God had a scribe take down his words to be translated later on Earth, but wouldn’t it make sense to speculate that instead of having another scribe to take down his word, that maybe he got with the times and took down his own word (along with arc angles having his back to keep him safe and undercover)? Chuck, if he were God all along, would be the end of Amara. Then we have to look at the fact that Lucifer tells Sam that it wasn’t only he who banished Amara before. It was a few Arc Angles and Lucifer that were able to lock her away. So what about the only Arc Angle we haven’t seen since Lucifer was put back in his cage – Michael! If Lucifer could escape, why not find a way to release Michael? Rowena can’t be the only witch that can use the book and the codec to pull Michael into the cage they pulled Lucifer into for a chat. Now that Crowley is on the run, and as most of us have seen in the upcoming episode preview, he teams up. once again, with the Winchesters for a face-off with Amara. It could be a possibility that he could not only locate a witch like his mother, but maybe even contact his mother through a spell of some sort. And last but not least in the slightest, Gabriel. He was not only an Arc Angle with a very special way he did things, but he’s dead as far as we know. But, how did Metatron use his presence to lead Cass into a trap? Does this lead us to believe that humans aren’t the only ones with souls who go to some sort of afterlife after death? Couldn’t angles have souls and maybe even they’re own special place in Heaven or a Heaven just for angles? If they didn’t, then we’re supposed to believe that with the Angle tablet, Metatron was able to access his spirit and use him to do his bidding? Doesn’t really sound like the trickster unless he wanted to do as asked just to drop hints to Cass before the ruse was over that led to Cass’s capture. Currently. the Winchesters, Crowley, and Cassifer/Lustial are currently looking for “The Hand of God” hoping to use the power from these objects to match Amara’s power. I have a feeling there will be a new development leading everyone to finding another solution to locking Amara away. If we have learned anything from this amazing series, anything is possible. Plus, the Winchesters have survived so much and now have access to the men of letters bunker where all knowledge of everything supernatural lies, who knows, maybe a solution lies right beneath there noses. Love to hear what everyone thinks. There are so many possibilities that our speculation is endless. Thanks for all the previous comments and posts that gave me the idea and confidence to post my own theories! Happy viewing all you Supernatural fans out there! Oh, one last thing, If the cage is powerful enough to hold Lucifer and Michael (since they have no power there) it has been a strong belief of mine that finding a way to put Amara into the cage somehow would be the way to lock her away and end her threat to humanity its self.