I’ve interviewed Dan about almost every one of his books! It’s almost a ritual now. His latest is, so far, his most ambitious: a book about, of course, Bing Crosby, Billie Holiday, Frank Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald, Judy Garland, and Barbra Streisand: how these people influenced each other, influenced American (and world) culture, through their voices and their art. Dan is so so good on the details. I interviewed him about the book for Ebert.
He goes into this legendary team-up in great detail so for reference, and also just for sheer pleasure:
Bing and Billie and Frank and Ella and Judy and Barbra comes out next week!
Great interview! I’ve been working my way through Henry Pleasants’ THE GREAT AMERICAN POPULAR SINGERS for about a year and half, and all these singers are covered in there, but certainly not at this length, so I’ll absolutely be adding this one to my list. Most of the folks in the Pleasants book have been new to me, or at least people I never really *listened* to all that closely before, so I’ve been taking it slow and doing a lot of listening. It’s been a wonderful experience.
Interestingly, it was listening to an old Bing Crosby box set from the ’90s that got me interested in the Pleasants book in the first place (well, that and a Robert Christgau piece about the book that made me aware of its existence). The Crosby recordings in that set are wonderful — really enjoyable, tremendous variety. I’m more of an Elvis-and-later listener in general, and it’s been fun *really *hearing a lot of the older singers for the first time. Plus it’s neat to hear different singers’ takes on standards and get better acquainted with the pre-rock repertoire.
Also, I adored THAT WAS SOMETHING, so I appreciate your bringing that to my attention several years ago.
Tom – that book sounds really interesting! I love discovering singers who were just somehow not in my field of vision – or I knew OF them and knew their biggest hits, but never really looked any deeper into it.
Dan is really good on the details stuff: how is one interpretation different from another? how is one person’s voice/sensibility more suited for this than others? Or less? It was so fun tracking down these clips – some of the really old Bing stuff – early 30s stuff – isn’t on Spotify – but thankfully nerd-scholars uploaded them to YouTube – so I loved using Dan’s book as a guide!
// it’s been fun *really *hearing a lot of the older singers for the first time. //
that is so cool! I feel the same way.
I haven’t gotten to the Judy and Barbra chapters in the Pleasants book yet, but the Bing, Billie, Frank, and Ella chapters have probably led to the most enjoyable listening experiences thus far, along with the Bessie Smith and Louis Armstrong chapters.
Sinatra, for example, is someone I could never get into. Too much exposure to the big, noisy hits of the “swinging Vegas Rat Pack” variety in settings where they served as background music. But sometime last year I was playing ONLY THE LONELY late at night and really appreciating it, and then “One for My Baby” came on and just totally transported me. At that point I wasn’t just ready — I needed to hear a lot more, and right away. And then reading about how much he was influenced by Billie Holiday, for example, made me able to approach her music with better ears. So an album like LADY IN SATIN, which I’d never been able to appreciate, suddenly clicked. Plus she does a bunch of songs on that one that Sinatra had done, so there’s that back-and-forth going on as well.
Anyway, really excited to read this! :)
I love the story of you listening to Frank and that discovery process! Only the Lonely late at night is the way to go! lol
It’s so interesting how someone’s representation in the media or in culture generally – their image – precedes them to such a degree that the entire culture takes them for granted. Or … it is assumed they were just “one thing” – OR, even worse, their reputation has very little to do with what they actually DID. (in the case of Bing Crosby, for example). In that case, rehabilitative work is important!! I love it when someone – a writer, or a clip tripped over on youtube or whatever – shows me something deeper, where I can go “ohhhhh okay THAT’S why this person is such a big deal.”
I feel this way about Marilyn Monroe sometimes. Her image is so everywhere, and so disconnected now from the actual human actress – the work she actually did – there is still much to do to get people to discover her fresh!
It’s so fun with this era of singing because – as you say – they all sang the same songs. The American Songbook, really. so it’s like all these different versions are talking TO each other – it really shows you what great songs these were too, that they can “take” these different approaches.
thanks so much for sharing your thoughts!
and I love that you loved That Was Something!! Dan is awesome.
Looking very much forward to this exciting book! I adore all these vocalists, and I do a weekly radio series on Bing that gives “equal time” to his earliest work, his final recordings, and everything in between. This interview previews the book and I was delighted to read that Louis is also featured prominently. Can’t wait! Thank you!
Arne – so happy to pass along the rec to someone who clearly already gets it. You do a radio series on Bing!! that’s amazing!
Could you tell me more about your radio series? Where can I find it, or is it on a local station? would love to have a listen!