I’m reading Rubicon: The Last Years of the Roman Republic
“Wait … there were no cars back then? What strange country, friends, is this?????”
Etc.
This is a side issue.
But … “working out” has been in the lexicon, how long? Cary Grant, by our modern standards, “worked out”. He lifted weights, swam, whatever. But he said, “I try to keep fit by exercising.” “Workout” is a modern term for “exercise”. I mean, whatever, of course I have to bring up Cary Grant because I’m a geek – but … to read about Pompeinius Maxiumus Glutitodinus III “working out” … just doesn’t seem right!! I highly doubt Cicero would be like, “Yo, man – I’m gonna go work out … I’ll orate with you later …” Well, he was kind of a sickly dude, so maybe he wouldn’t “work out” anyway – but … I don’t know. I’m not wacky about the language in this book. (Gibbon can be tough to get through – but I think his language is perfect for describing antiquity.)
And “big business” … I mean, I realize there were businessmen in ancient times – but … it’s such a shorthand kind of word, meant to trigger a response in the reader – which in many cases I don’t think is appropriate.
It’s jarring. It’s not just that they’re modern words – because of course, you have to use modern language to write books about the ancient world – it’s just … using SUCH localized terms as “working out” and “big business” and “blitzkrieg” – which is TRULY modern … seems kinda lazy.
But whatevs. I’ll finish it. After my workout.
“Yo, man – I’m gonna go work out … I’ll orate with you later …”
Ohmygod. I can’t stop laughing.
Sounds unfortunate – as if the author presumed the idiocy of his paying customers and chose to talk like an idiot himself. Hopefully the actual history is better.
“Let me guess, you’ve spent too much time with Epicureus over the pagan holidays, and you’ve got some extra pounds you’re trying to get rid of. We’ve all been there. I used to be Flabbius Buttus, but with an exercise program I’m Gluteus Maximus. I came, I saw, I conquered my metabolism. And so can you. (You too, Brutus!) Just follow my work out program, cross that Rubicon to fitness! Also check out my latest papyrus issue of the Low-Carb Codex!”
dorkafork – you’re brilliant!!!! hahahahahaha
You too, Brutus … hahahahaha
Does he discuss the issue of Roman outsourcing vis-a-vis modern cost reduction paradigms?
I think there’s a chapter on “work Romans won’t do” and a complaint about the social libertines of Greek theater.
Please tell me this isn’t the most recent Thomas Cahill book.
I really enjoyed “How the Irish Saved Civilization…” and have read others in his series, but I found they became progressively more flip and modernistic in their tone…and I really hate that.
He used the phrase “Hello?” in the sense of “I do not understand this person’s motiviation” and put it in the mouth of one of Jesus’ followers in the book he wrote on Jesus. (He also used the phrase “Lesser Bumf*ck” to describe Nazareth, which I suppose is accurate in terms of how people of the day thought of it, but again, I found it uncomfortably flip).
I like my historical books to give me that little frisson of what life might have been like then. I don’t want them to try to transmogrify it into some version-of-today-but-without-indoor-toilets. Because – what’s the point? It’s kind of like going to Tokyo and staying in a Holiday Inn where everyone speaks perfect, Midwestern-accented English, and never leaving the hotel, and only eating in their Western-style dining room.
Sheila, this post is soooo funny! I looked like a totally crazed person at the office, staring at the monitor and giggling like a lunatic.
“Pompeinius Maxiumus Glutitodinus III “working out” HAHAHAHAHA!!! And: “Yo, man – I’m gonna go work out … I’ll orate with you later …” Priceless!
I haven’t read a “modern” history book in a long time; I’m still reading Mommsen, a “pet project” that I started last year and that’s still going on as we speak. As with Gibbon, Mommsen is a tough read. However, I’d rather wade through these authors’ tough language than have someone rephrase things to make them easily digestible and then sound totally ridiculous. It distracts from the main issue and it doesn’t create a feeling of what antiquity was like. (What a geek! hahahaa)
Mike R – hahahahahaha
ricki – I’ve never read any Thomas Cahill stuff – but … are you serious that he uses “Hello?” in that colloquial way? BAD!
It’s like that book I tried to read about the War of 1812 which I finally put down because of the author pulling shit like that. The author used the word “Hey” in his narrative – more than once.
As in: “Hey, the British were impressing American soldiers, so what did they expect?”
Uhm – Hey?
No. I repeat: No.
And ricki – you said:
//I don’t want them to try to transmogrify it into some version-of-today-but-without-indoor-toilets.//
EXACTLY.
Ceci – ah yes, you are my buddy in having read (and preferring) Gibbon!! I forgot about that! I don’t know too many other people (in our generation anyway) who have read his massive tomes. At least not casually – People used to read him for FUN. Like – he was the go-to author for that period. Now? We have Caesar “working out” and the “blitzkrieg” of flaming arrows … and I’m just not wacky about it!
Actually, I am finding out that one of the books I bought to use for our homeschool curriculum is quite a good book on Roman history, albeit its told in a fictional format. It’s called “Eagle of the Ninth”. Its written with young adults in mind, but I am enjoying it immensely myself.
If its Roman stuff you want to get into, I also recommend an online forum called Roman Army Talk. Those people rock! Theres a lot of Texas history re-enactors that I know of, but I am finding I really want to join a Roman re-enactors group!
Have never tried Gibbon…sheesh, you are a glutton for punishment! LOL Just kidding…I should put that on my reading list.
I may have another go at Gibbon after I finish The Brothers Karamazov. See, the proprietor here will throw bad looks at me if I don’t finish it first (j/k), and I’m 400 pages in.
I think something’s flaky about the translation I’m using, though. Father Zossima said, “Yo, ‘ssup, dawg?” to Alyosha on page 97. I’m pretty sure that’s not right.
The truly sad thing, Ken, is that somewhere in some school district, someone is thinking that kind of translation would not only be a good idea, but be essential to students being able to “relate” to the classics.
(Actually, you know – that would make a funny/horrible exercise: “translate” a passage of a classic novel into modern-speak. The mental picture I get is of Jane Eyre coming back to the horrible house where she was raised and telling off the “bitches” there…)
Sharon – I have a copy of Eagle of the Ninth sitting on my shelf and I keep thinking I should start reading it. This gives me a little more push in that direction.
I have been enjoying it, ricki! If its classics we are talking about, I also recommend Padric Colms “A Children’s Homer.” Im endeavoring to get through that and THEN pick up the hardback copy I have of the Iliad and Odyssey.
Cheating I know, but this homeschooling is the education I never had…
I *am* doing it for my daughter, too…LOL
Sharon – that’s so cool!! I imagine you do have to reacquaint yourself with all this stuff to teach your child – neat!!
I actually really like reading history books geared towards kids – they sometimes cut right to the chase. I have a “History of the United States” – published in the late 1800s or early 1900s – ha!! I found it in a second-hand bookstore, and it has all these old-fashioned illustrations – woodcuts, and drawings and political cartoons from old-fashioned newspapers – and a very blunt no-nonsense narrative – a bit flowery and old-fashioned, but I learned a LOT from it.
(Actually, you know – that would make a funny/horrible exercise: “translate” a passage of a classic novel into modern-speak.
We had to do that in my jr. english class (2001-2002). we were reading “The great Gatsby” and some lame brain decided he couldn’t understand it so our teacher made u break it down into modern slang…. it was horrifying. I’d really liked the book, I’m sad that idiots ruined it for me.
ricki,
Did you read Cahill’s “Gifts of the Jews”? I enjoyed that book a great deal! If I remember correctly he seemed to be more succinct in staying connected to the time in which he was writing about, which is not the case with some of his others. Not that would be too hard…there really are not many modern ways to decribe the desert…sand is still sand!
I really thought it was a fairly decent representation of the growth of a nation and a world religion.
Dearest: do you think anyone would ever google ‘stairmasters in the roman empire’? I’m racing through the Washington bio you gave me and enjoying immensely. hope all is well with you, love, dad
Chuck – I’ve read that, and it was pretty good. Haven’t moved on to “How the Irish Saved Civilization” yet.
This whole conversation reminds me of the “modern Shakespeare” books one can find in the mega-chains like Borders. Mercy, it’s dreadful stuff.
Mercutio: Geez, Tybalt, watch it! Why’d you have to go and stab me, you rat? Great, now I’m worm food. Y’know, that wasn’t cool!
Nightfly: [vigorously scrubbing ears with Drano]
This whole stream of comments has reminded me of something that seems lost to people these days.
I taught Biology and Chemistry for a year at a High School, and geez do I miss it. Anywho, I used to tell my students how powerful the English language can be. Master it and you can take on the world, without it you’re limited…period end of sentence! Yeah, I know, I was supposed to be teaching science but I couldn’t help myself. So, through quotes from scientists to writers, philosophers, etc I tried to demonstrate the power of this beautiful language we have been given. The fact that some, not all, writers would cheapen the experience of history by trying to moderize it is missing the point. Maybe it’s just society or any other countless issues, but Sheila said it best “/it’s just…seems kinda lazy./”
Dad – I’m so glad you’re loving the Washington. It’s good! On a disgusting (some would say Joycean) level – I was amazed at how often the dude had diarrhea. Like – literally, ALWAYS. Poor man! I have diarrhea for a day and i want to throw in the towel. He had it for 20 damn years and look at what he did!