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I liked it and have positive feelings for S12. My one hope is for minimal to no interaction with heaven and angels and that the big bad is NOT Lucifer.
Shallow Report: Wet, shivering Sam is hella sexy.
I am sure I don’t know what you mean.
Wet Sam. I may have a problem when it comes to that.
I’ve been rewatching The Gilmore Girls in preparation for November, and seeing JP so fresh faced and adorable, tall and lanky- what a treat. Then contrasting to last night-I must agree, wet Sam is really something.
I enjoyed the quietness of it. Much has been written about how this season would be less earth shattering and bombastic and I appreciate that. The writing was good with just enough words and not too much exposition. After all, the SPN family know the back story so let’s not waste time.
What I liked and what I will go back to view again.
– Dean’s face when Mary hugged him. I was almost too scared to look at that scene. JA is so good and surprising at the same time. I didn’t what to expect.
– the fight scene with the British chick. It would have been nice to see Mary take her but it’s too soon.
– a wet, relatively unclothed Sam with prehensile toes.
– Crowley. “Well, duh…”
– the film seems different or maybe it’s just my TV but the lighting seems muted and less drenched with color than less season. I like it.
-snarky Sam. “I’ve been tortured by Lucifer…”
Well, I hope you guys can change my mind, then. Because for now, I’m far from convinced. With Mary back from the dead there’s a huge potential for screwing up (just like there was with making Chuck explicitly God).
I found this episode pretty weak on several levels, the writing being one of them. Some stuff just don’t make sense to me. The brothers don’t even bother with what English chick wants? I mean, we’ve seen Sam tortured by someone on the phone with their kid before, and he tried to, you know, REASON with him. But here, he only knows two words and doesn’t seem to be thinking.
Also, I’m sorry, but Mary going “This is blood”? Yeah, we know, thanks. At least when she was dead she couldn’t say dumb shit. I know she just got back from the dead and stuff, but still. There were a few clunky lines, like this.
What happened to Castiel? Is he still under Rowena’s rabid-dog curse? Or maybe that’s what happens when you’re useless in a story for several years – you become aggressive for no reason (Country Guy going “what are you?” was adorable). Why is Crowley still here? Why is Lucifer… oh no, actually, I don’t even CARE.
They killed the only secondary character played by someone who seemed to know what they were doing. That’s too bad, that woman looked like FUN. But the veterinarian, the demons, the cop? It was embarrassing, really. Remember when demons were played by Leslie Odom Jr.? *sigh*
My favourite moment was by far the shot of the garage. (I wonder where the two motorcycles are.)
Lyrie, I thought that Sam tried to reason with Cole because perhaps he thought Cole was basically a good guy (though pushed by revenge to do something horrible – something Sam could relate to) but primarily because he needed to get free to catch Demon Dean and try to cure him. Pointless, angry defiance would get him nowhere; he wanted to be free so he could save Dean.
Now however Dean is truly gone, obliterated by the soul bomb. There is NOTHING Sam can do this time; his brother is truly gone for good. And there’s Toni, smug and cruel, and there is no reason for him to comply. Sneering in her face, despite his helpless position, is his way to say, “I defy you, stars!” Why come to some sort of agreement with her when there’s nothing for him except escape from pain which either 1) he feels he can deal with or 2) his physical pain is preferable to the emotional emptiness he feels?
I liked Cas’ baby Superman entrance. I loved the (eventually awkward for Dean) Mary and Baby reunion. And the Dean and Mary reunion. Intrigued by the Magic Brass Knuckles. And Sam in danger is disorienting. More shocking in a way than Dean in danger.
I’m with Lyrie on useless demons.
I thought it was a good start. I WANTED the episode to end with Sam and Dean’s reunion – so it was nice to have that left unsatisfied (I tell myself).
//Cas’ baby Superman entrance.//
A couple of movie references with that scene. I totally saw
> Marty Mcfly crash landing ‘Back to the Future’
> Edgar the bug climbing out of the crater in MIB.
My favorite shot was that last one of Sam on the stairs with Black Sabbath playing. Gorgeous and heart breaking. Got to say, I love Mary. She’s real (her wordless exchange at the Impala) and she’s kick ass (“hurt him”).
As to answering Toni’s questions, I love that Sam was stubborn and refused to engage. They kidnapped him, threatened him, belittled all the things that he and Dean had done to save the world – and yet she just wants a little sit down to answer some innocent questions? It smells and Sam just didn’t care any more.
One piece of wank. It only takes a few hours to drive from Kansas to Missouri. The little coffee stop and sit down bothered me enormously, because hello, Sam needs rescuing.
Don’t hate me BUT cmon, didn’t the scene where Mary’s foot is on Dean’s neck give you The End flashbacks of Lucifer!Sam? Foreshadowing some serious shit I believe.
Both boys got beat up by women. What a violent gender!
Ha! The woman who was the MoL muscle was interesting to me. A role that is almost always played by a man – a henchman who feels no fear or pain, and does the job efficiently and coolly – and instead we get a woman. I love how SPN casting brings diversity in characters, normalizes what might be untraditional. She scared me for sure with her flat eyes and those powered up brass knuckles.
She was cool like that. And Mary put Dean down real fast. Sisters were doing it.
didn’t the scene where Mary’s foot is on Dean’s neck give you The End flashbacks of Lucifer!Sam?
Very interesting resonances, Paula! Because that scene made me think of the Mary iconography of her in white stepping on The Serpent’s neck with a bare foot!
How great would it be if Mary were responsible for taking out Lucifer?
Mother Mary. Wow, I hadn’t thought of this. All those religious images we’ve seen in the show, of Michael and Lucifer even Gabriel, but nothing of the Virgin Mary (except the bathtub shrine in Form And Void, which doesn’t count when it’s buried in someone’s front yard).
Does that brings us back to Messiah!Sam as the babe in the manager? (jk, but it would give Jared a reason to keep the hiatus beard and long hair)
*didn’t the scene where Mary’s foot is on Dean’s neck give you The End flashbacks*
Glad it wasn’t just me. I was literally sitting there waiting for the turn/click. It kind of made me feel a little squeemish to be honest.
Me too.
I liked the episode. One issue I had with it, why did the British lady pick Sam to get information from? She wants to know all the hunters info, right? Like Sam said, why would she pick on the guy that has literally been to hell and back to try and put the squeeze on.
I loved the look on Mary’s face when she was checking out the back seat of Baby, and Dean’s dawning realization that something interesting happened in that back seat :) Hilarious!
I think my biggest issue, and this is just a personal objection-I really hate torture scenes. I’m sure no one loves them, but I hate when it is part of the story. Maybe because I have spent the last few weeks watching hours of Gilmore Girls, so seeing sweet GG Dean (took me forever to think of JP as Sam) chained to a chair with a blow torch to his feet really got to me.
I really liked the premier last night too. I’ll definitely be doing a rewatch this weekend. I had 2 scenes I particularly loved. That opening shot of Baby in the garage was utterly gorgeous. I love that they give that car it’s own much deserved entrance to the season. Loved the scene with Mary and Baby. Her crooning tone…”Hi sweetheart….” (I’m pretty sure many of us might talk to that car like that if we had an up close and personal) Dean’s face….priceless.
The second scene I loved was when Dean talked to Toni on the phone. Yes, I know the dialogue was pretty much an homage to “Taken” but I loved it. The look on his face, the quiet rage, the whole breaking the phone apart after she hung up on him. Up to that point Dean had….obviously…been very focused on Mary suddenly being back in his life. Even though they were looking for Sam, it almost felt like he was secondary to everything else that was going on…understandably so! That phone call seemed to bring the brothers connection to the forefront though…and since that is what I watch the show for…..it was good to see!
Overall a good start and I can’t wait till next week!
Someone on another board asked “how long before they kill off Mary?”. My first instinct was ‘how dare you!’, but then I got to thinking how she would fit in for the long haul. I like the character and don’t relish seeing her dispatched and causing the boys more heartache. I also would find it hard to see her walking away from her sons, unless the writers find a really goooood reason for it that doesn’t hurt too badly.
On the other hand, I can’t see the three of them zooming around in the impala the rest of the season, so I imagine she could stay in the bunker and be their researcher. But then, that would require her to be in just about every episode which I’m not sure I’m ready for that. Or could she be like Cas, whose absences are explained by his being angel on “heavenly business”. Mary didn’t seem to be thrilled with having to kill, so maybe she could be sent on special searches for “stuff” to keep her out of the dirty side of the family business.
Curious to see how Mary is entwined into her sons lives.
I’m taking a guess here that Mary will be like Sam: she’s always ran from the hunters life, she said so herself. I think the writers will set it up so she sacrifices herself for her sons, willingly returning to death. Just a guess:)
That is my guess as well. Sacrifice self for family… it must be genetic.
Oh wow. Autofill put in my whole name. That looks really pretentious. Sorry.
The Right Honorable Melanie F Rice. Now that might be pretentious… (on another note, yay! Melanie’s back)
Her Ladyship Melanie F Rice. Has a nice ring to it.
I genuinely loved this episode, and in my opinion one of the best premiers in recent years. I really enjoyed the juxtaposition of Dean and Mary’s story line, with its quietness to Sam’s which at times was so intense I was actually holding my breath.
The only problem I am having with Mary’s storyline is all the potential emotional trauma which she is undoubtedly going to endure, whether on screen or not. I even sat there after I watched Sam’s hallucinations and thought, Mary is going to find out about Jessica, and I shuddered. Like an actual, hair on end shudder.
Oh, and does any one else think that if we take into account the Season 8 time shift, Mary would have been dead for 34 years, not 33?
No?
Okay just me then.
S8 time shift – why am I blanking? When Sam and Mary have their conversation, that will be heartbreaking to hear about Jessica. I hope that opens up the door to more details about her (was she an artist, based on the easel in the corner of their room) and Stanford (anyone else want more backstory on Brady, or is that me?. If Mary always dreamed of getting away from hunting, it seems like she’d want to hear about that time.
Season 8 starts 12 months after season 7 ends, so technically it is now 2017 in Supernatural land, not 2016.
I’d love a flashback episode of Jess and Sam – there is so much there that we have no idea about, and I think Mary is a prime opportunity to do it. It means we could even get a stealth Jeffrey Dean Morgan appearance.
Of course! Duh.
I think there was a year between seasons 5 & 6, as well, when Dean was with Lisa and Sam was hunting soulless with gramps Campbell. I don’t really get hung up on the time line thing. Believing that mom is 29 years old is a serious stretch of the imagination though…
33 is better though because Jesus. (IMHO)
I loved it too. Plenty of time for things to settle, to ask questions, to ground itself in Winchester history. That pan over the Impala’s interior- gorgeous.
Sam being ferocious was great. & that last shot, my God.
“Where am I?”
“Uh …….. earth?”
Seen it twice. Laugh every time. Also Misha’s frustrated tone when he says, “No.” hahaha
Okay so finally I have some time – last week, help me Jesus – to respond. Will put down my thoughts without reading comments first – and then will go back to see what you all thought.
I think there were some very intriguing ideas/possibilities introduced:
Mom, of course.
Sam being haunted by the past. Not sure if this will play out – but rising torment from things that happened from the very start of the series – was pleasing to me in terms of continuity – ESPECIALLY because the final 3 eps of Season 11 were like the writers had totally forgotten who the fuck Sam was – and hopefully some of this will bear fruit. Connected, for me, with his belated apology last season for leaving Dean in Purgatory. Unresolved issues of guilt for “abandoning” his brother – multiple times.
Men of Letters? I don’t know… Not sure I care about a re-enactment of 1776 happening on the show, but we shall see. Men of Letters is yet ANOTHER “bureaucratization” of something that started out mystical and mysterious and eccentric-underground. Now we have prim looking ladies in tight pants being officious, etc. One of the irresistible pulls towards office-life that SPN seems to struggle with.
Lucifer going through vessels like a marauding conqueror raping and pillaging. and to think that it’s actually Rick Springfield doing the raping and pillaging? I’m thrilled.
Also maybe Lucifer will spice things up a bit because those rent-a-demons. UGH.
Remember RUBY. and MEG? they were the full and eccentric counterparts to Balthazar and Uriel and all the rest. Ferocious and truly disturbing. Who on earth would be frightened by those two boobs hiding from Crowley? and those actors. I hate to criticize actors. But both of them … again with the line-reading issues. That dialogue. Seriously: if that’s going to be the version of Hell in the show – then it’s best to just leave it behind.
Poor Mark Sheppard. A bored Crowley, yet again.
However, felt there was a nice balance between the three separate stories – more time given to Sam and Dean. Castiel was only connected to Sam/Dean – which is how he needs to be. I have read a couple of Tweets like “More Castiel this season!” and I thought: Oh come ON. However: if he is connected to the brothers – as opposed to having his own tubercular Arc – I’m okay with it. He’s FUNNIER when he’s with them, too.
I LOVED his response to Mary’s confusion about the computer. “I don’t trust them.” This is where Misha Collins shines.
I’m not sure why it would have been bad if Mary shot Castiel. Isn’t he un-kill-able? WHAT THE HELL is he at this point?
I loved the brass-knuckled British hard-ass, and I loved how the sunlight made her green eyes translucent in a couple of shots. They cared enough about her unique face to film it properly.
If it’s 6 in the morning when they knock on the vet’s door – why is it mid-day light? This is the kind of mood-detail that the show does not care about anymore, and it saddens me.
I loved the moment when Mary remembers fooling around in the back seat of the Impala, and Dean gets uncomfortable.
Also, JA’s delivery of the romance between Mary and John … there was so much richness in it! First of all, none of it we knew already. Great. Second of all – the image of John telling Dean the story in that much detail … the date they met – what movie she was seeing (nice call-back to Dean’s supposed love of Kurt Vonnegut, yes? A one-off joke they made which they never followed up on … so SOMEONE was paying attention there) … the fact that they married in Reno … But mainly what I loved was the image of John telling Dean this story over and over again. It actually gave some shadings to that relationship (John and Dean, I mean) in the same way the CBGB’s story did. These are tender and fond memories – I guess I imagined that John would have shut down any conversation about Mom, except for in the context of avenging her death. The image of him giving Dean the play-by-play of their entire romance is extremely touching.
33 years. Jesus died at 33. Not a coincidence.
VERY VERY good “Legs” episode. all around. Legs everywhere, bow-legged, akimbo, splaying out on stairways (loved that fight on the stairway), stalking across streets, etc.
Sam in the cold shower. Well. It was too hot for words. I have heart palpitations just thinking about it.
That’s what I got, off the top of my head.
//I loved the moment when Mary remembers fooling around in the back seat of the Impala, and Dean gets uncomfortable.//
One of my favorite moments. I’ll repeat my twitter comment that it seems oddly appropriate that Dean was conceived on Baby’s back seat – symbolic even.
Totally!
“She’s still beautiful.” I said “yeah she is” at the same time as Dean.:)
Honestly, the Impala is always beautiful but it looked particularly beautiful when they walked into the garage and saw it. Like a jewel.
“Hi, Sweetheart. Remember me?”
I’m . . . Undecided about my opinion. Loved Dean and Mary and Mary’s reunion with Baby. I’m thinking there could be an interesting dynamic set up when Sam is back together with them with both Dean and Mary trying to play the role of Mom. (This is common with parentified children – they don’t deal well with that role being taken over by someone else.)
But the rest of it . . . I’m looking forward to Rick Springfield as Lucifer, but what’s up with this after the whole Chuck saying Lucifer is not the villain stuff last season? If they’re going to retcon the last 3 episodes, I’m not going to complain too much, but some clarification would be nice.
And the whole British MoL thing. Are they Men of Letters or hunters? They don’t seem entirely clear on that. And I agree that this is just more bureaucratization of something that used to be mysterious and fascinating. I’ll also agree that shivering Sam was, um, appealing, but the blowtorch was upsetting. And why was Cas able to do the forehead-touch knockout on the truck guy, but not on the woman who was, you know, actually a threat? Do enchanted brass knuckles negate angel powers?
Natalie –
// I’m thinking there could be an interesting dynamic set up when Sam is back together with them with both Dean and Mary trying to play the role of Mom. (This is common with parentified children – they don’t deal well with that role being taken over by someone else.) //
I have a similar curiosity and I so hope it is explored. I hope they treat this with sensitivity and depth … I’d love to see some conflict erupt around this. It was interesting to see how different Dean’s reaction was here to Mom – as opposed to every other time she has emerged from the dead. He seemed very competent and grown-up – even when he flipped out about the image of Mom and Dad having sex in the back of the Impala. I also love – and this is all on JA – the way he says the word “Mom.” It’s not natural for him to say – especially to her face.
// And why was Cas able to do the forehead-touch knockout on the truck guy, but not on the woman who was, you know, actually a threat? Do enchanted brass knuckles negate angel powers? //
I know. What the hell is Cas now?
and I’m already bored with the British Men of Letters which is not a good sign.
Agreed. It’s possible that it could GET interesting, but as of right now, I’m just not seeing it.
Also: because Mary was so confused, with no memory, Dean naturally segued into a parental role with her.
These are all very intriguing possibilities.
I hope they don’t just focus on Plot. We have a long season to go, I know, I know.
//Also: because Mary was so confused, with no memory, Dean naturally segued into a parental role with her.//
Yes! I also assume, since she showed up in the same nightgown she was wearing when she burned, we’re meant to believe she’s still 29? Which means that both of her son’s are older than her now, in Dean’s case by close to a decade. It was disconcerting for me to realize that several of my professors were younger than me in grad school. What must it be like to suddenly be 8 years older than your own mother (who hasn’t been around since 1983)?
// What must it be like to suddenly be 8 years older than your own mother (who hasn’t been around since 1983)? //
I know. I thought that too.
There’s a song written by the singer/songwriter Amanda Broom about her father – and it’s killer. (I wrote about a post about it.) Her father is dead – he was a B-movie actor so occasionally she’d see him show up on late-night TV – and she would get this incredibly weird feeling:
“And up on the screen
Well, here comes my Daddy
It’s a sad funny feeling
Now I’m older than him.”
Kills me.
I honestly hope they delve into these kinds of issues with Mom. all the stuff we’ve been talking about.
//the image of John telling Dean this story over and over again. It actually gave some shadings to that relationship (John and Dean, I mean)//
I was hard on “Freaking Mary Winchester” end of last season, but I admit I didn’t see the possibility of revealing a softer, more loveable side of John through her. I love John and would welcome a more balanced picture of him, not just ‘what kind of jerk would subject his kids to this’. I’m not implying that I think John was perfect, just a complex guy inundated by trauma since age 8 when his dad ‘walked out’. That we can get this insight from just a few lines in that episode is a tribute to the writers. I choose to believe that it was purposeful.
//I’m not implying that I think John was perfect, just a complex guy inundated by trauma//
That’s honestly true of most abusive parents. That’s part of what’s so heartbreaking about working with dysfunctional families – save for the occasional pathological sadist or sociopath, there’s really not a villain to be found, just a group of seriously damaged people all doing their best to survive. That’s also what makes John so compelling. He wasn’t evil. He did love his kids. (That said, I still reserve the right to be appalled by some of John’s parenting choices, like pimping his kid out to monsters. And I still think there was a bit of self-aggrandizing narcissist in him.)
:-)
Agreed on all counts, Natalie – and I think that’s why I was surprised by the new image of John telling Dean bedtime stories over and over again about his romance with Dean’s dead mother. Somehow I hadn’t pictured that – I had imagined that Mom was basically off-limits for discussion – except in some idealized martyr way – “we will avenge her – she was perfect – our marriage was perfect” (as Sam thought it was, based on his memories of how his dad talked about it).
So I don’t know – I found that strangely – not touching, really – but just interesting. It hadn’t occurred to me that John would try to talk to Dean in that incredibly detailed way. Maybe he did it when he was drunk – which is kind of an awful scene to contemplate – but I can picture Dean listening to this Memory Lane story totally agog – hungry for more details about his lost mother.
//Maybe he did it when he was drunk//
Exactly what I was going to say. That’s the only way I can picture the John we know being open enough.
That’s pretty sad.
Right? And, like, 10 year old Dean soaking up all the details about the wedding in Reno, etc., but faced with the tragedy in front of him. Yuk.
Little Dean, soaking it all up, taking care of John at the same time. Throwing away the beer bottles, setting out a puke bowl and towel on the nightstand.
There must be some version of Robert Conquest’s third law that applies to bureaucracies on SPN:
The simplest way to explain the behavior of any bureaucratic organization is to assume that it is controlled by a cabal of its enemies.
In this case, the enemies are “boredom, cliche, and nausea.”
It’s just lazy. SPN is suspicious of systematization – because the hunters live so outside of that. Thats why they had to burn down the road house. I like that about the show – but being suspicious of organization of any kind means that every single “entity” that lasts on the show somehow morphs into a bureaucratic structure – maybe for the contrast with the “individualism” of Sam and Dean – but it’s super old now, super boring.
It was the Leviathan that brought in Corporate America Power-Point speech and we’ve never really recovered since.
That Dick, Roman.