Haven’t watched yet but here’s an open thread, as the conversation still rages in the OTHER thread about “What Is and What Should Never Be.” I am proud of us, as a group, that we can keep all these balls in the air.
Carry on.
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Sam got down to two layers in this one, so yeah. Strippers.
Yes, he did! That was one of the most shocking things about it. OhMyGod, stomach??
S11 hasn’t disappointed yet. Man, I feel like I have an emotional hangover this morning.
And now, Jessie has me wondering, how is it that Sam was gutshot and still two layers on throughout the episode.
Paula this is a bit of a deep cut (pun not intended) but I was so worried about him getting shot through all those layers — all I could think about was Stephen Maturin having to operate on himself to pull a bullet and a little bit of cloth out of his own bullet wound. Luckily Dean was on hand with the needlenose. Obvious solution: no shirts, ever.
// Obvious solution: no shirts, ever. //
Absolutely.
The two of them playing that “I’m gonna dig the bullet out” scene was like that horrifying field-hospital scene in Gone With the Wind. That was some macho shit, on both sides.
I was almost starting to like werewolves … but not now. And rangers with tasers, who knew? I do not approve.
Plus, Dean returns to lying. Addictions are such bears to beat.
I really liked Michelle (so nice job Erin Way). And really didn’t like Corbin (good job by him as well). And I miss Garth.
Another very good episode.
When Dean “went down” from being tazed (“Don’t taze me, bro!”) – it was hilarious – he came right at the camera, and then – BOOM – down out of the frame.
This was a nail-biter. Guest stars were great, crew brought their A-game, J2 killed it.
Lot of close-ups of hands, is my first coherent take-away.
Corbin suffocating Sam–a Winchester death hasn’t disturbed me like that since Dean was shredded by Hellhounds. I suppose it was due to the intimacy of the act and how it was filmed, and the parallel to the Winchester’s relationship with ‘the terrible things we do for love’ theme.
The reveal that Sam’s death was a fake-out right after Dean swallows the pills–that was some straight up Romeo and Juliet shit.
Sam asking Dean what he did while he was dead was so laid-back. Almost teasing. He obviously gets that Dean is lying but he swallows it–I suppose because the world isn’t falling down around their ears and Dean isn’t dead in his stead, so, perspective?
//that was some straight up Romeo and Juliet shit.//
Exactly! Nice one.
Yeah, when Sam “gasped” awake, I was like, “Holy shit, they’re going Romeo and Juliet on us.”
Oh god, the Romeo-and-Juliet connection! Not just the irony of the reversal, but also the fact that neither brother can actually handle living in a world without the other. So codependent, those Winchester boys!
That scene of Sam being suffocated was the worst. You’re right, so intimate and he was helpless which is so rare. When he revives, it’s a resurrection (getting back to previous comments on other threads about messiah!Sam) in more than one way. He goes from helpless at the hands of one cowardly human to kicking ass with three werewolves by the time he’s done.
Btw I did research on choking someone to death for a fic. It takes two full minutes to kill someone, even though most people pass out at 30 seconds. Terrible way to go and the person has to be committed to kill someone like this. So now you know…
Paula,
The weird thing is that I find that fascinating. I’m a nerd.
I find it fascinating too.
Wow. That’s horrible.
// a Winchester death hasn’t disturbed me like that since Dean was shredded by Hellhounds. //
I know! I said in my Viewing Diary, I think, that the slo-mo – which they almost never use – was really really effective in making that moment have the impact that it did.
If you use slo-mo too much, audiences get de-sensitized to it. So it really stuck out – the horror – and also how quickly it happened – before anyone had a chance to really understand what was going on.
So many fake-outs, such a nail-biter!
That it was Dean’s gun Sam got shot with was another layer in the cake of horror.
Dean’s death was wonderfully not-beautiful, not-heroic. And if Billie hadn’t decided to twist the knife (you died to summon me and Sam’s not actually dead to bargain FOR), and let Dean think Sam was dead, I can’t help wondering if Dean would have gone with her rather than live in a world without Sam.
Even gutshot and just having been almost dead, Sam’s sufficiently badass to kill two werewolves.
Dean’s lie at the end broke me a little. You made so much progress in “Love Hurts,” and now you’re back to lying to your brother?
(My friend and I were kind of clinging to each other for a lot of the really tense moments, and it took me forever to calm down enough to get to sleep.)
//it was Dean’s gun// thank you for this! Someone told me I was wrong about this, but it was such terrible irony that Dean’s favorite weapon, the pearl handled Taurus, was the thing to almost kill his reason for living. Ugh.
Paula you are not wrong about this, you are right about this.
Is it a Taurus? I thought it was a Colt.
I always thought Dean’s gun is a Taurus 9mm but a lot of people say it’s a Colt 1911. They look pretty similar.
They do, and now I’m intrigued, and I know nothing about guns. This is ridiculous. Me being all fussy about guns, I mean. Thanks for your reply, Paula!
The IMFDB is where I go when I wanna find out more about the guns! Because I know NOTHING about guns. Dean has the Colt and Sam has the Taurus, there’s a good comparison screencap on that page.
Oh my God, why did I never know about this before. Internet Movie Firearms Database?? That is amazing.
Wow, thanks Jessie! Some people are passionate. On some caps, I don’t even know how they can tell what gun it is. But I believe them.
I like Bobby’s revolver. I must be old school.
oh my god, it is the absolute nerdiest place on the internet, I love it. Also 90% of the screencaps have JA making a funny face.
I am a woman who had the mis-guided idea of running a series called Gun Porn on my site. I only put up one entry –
http://www.sheilaomalley.com/?p=56023
– and had a whole bunch of others planned – and then SPN came into my life, and I was like “Holy shit, this is Gun Porn Central.”
Unfortunately, the title of my one post brought a lot of nutsos to my site, and I decided it wasn’t worth it. But “porn” seemed the best descriptor – it’s not “love” it’s not “obsession” – it’s reveling in one thing, objectifying one thing, glorying in one topic and one topic only. And there are so many movies that apply to that.
I had no idea that a Firearms Database existed and I could not be more happy about this nerdy location on the Internet!!
Omg, this is amazing. You can even see the difference in the two gun barrels in the one photo. I stand corrected.
I would totally visit your gun porn site. Sign me up.
Other films I planned on doing:
The American. With George Clooney. In one glorious sequence, he makes a gun. Really good movie, by the way.
Any Michael Mann movie, really. Or Quentin Tarantino movie, too.
I mean, the loving close-ups of the Colt are pure Gun-Porn in SPN. They’re practically romantic, those close-ups!!
Padalecki and Ackles know their way around guns. There’s one scene – I can’t remember which one – when Ackles opens gun, and shakes the bullets out onto the floor, clacking it all back into place, without once looking at the gun.
My cousin Kerry – who does a lot of television – spends a lot of time on the gun range – not because she’s a gun nut – although she’s kind of becoming one (her husband is a former homicide detective who has now become a weapons trainer for actors in television – he worked on The Mentalist mostly, which is how they met when Kerry did a guest-spot). Anyway, Kerry knows the importance of gun use for actors in television – and if you’re gonna play a cop, you have to know your way around a gun.
There’s that one blooper in the SPN gag-reel when “Abaddon” picks up the gun so carelessly it goes off. Mark Sheppard turns to the camera, and you can tell he is not amused. Shit like that is bush-league and scary.
and then there’s poor silly Jon Erik Hexum!!
Woo, competence!
funny the things that stay with you — my only abiding memory of the Heat DVD commentary is Val Kilmer getting all excited over armed forces trainers complimenting him for his facility reloading his rifle. I was like, go you, Val! He’s so believable in that shootout.
//Gun Porn Central//
Well, here’s a new hashtag for us annoying cunts! I love it.
Listen, I used to be that kind of snob who would be like “Cars? Guns? Ew.” But then came SPN, and they shoot them so lovingly (porn REALLY is the best term) that I am now fascinated by both — it is kind of embarrassing, really. I discovered there are specialized websites, kind of like ebay, but for guns, and if I had money I think I would buy a few old revolvers. Because they are shiny and pretty. So, fuck my ethical issues, I guess. And thank you SPN.:)
// There’s one scene – I can’t remember which one – when Ackles opens gun//
Argh, yeah, I can totally see it in my mind. Now I need to know when, and I don’t have time to research. Frustration!
“Sam’s sufficiently badass to kill two werewolves” — I liked how they show the female werewolf going through the doorway, we hear noises, then Sam slowly appears around the corner with the keys to their vehicle, looking tired but tough. They totally showcased his strength in this show, with him bandaging himself after the bullet was removed, walking through the woods, fighting the werewolves while wounded, driving himself to the clinic, and killing the werewolf that was strangling Dean.
I was of two minds about Dean lying about what he did when Sam was dead: I’m not sure if it was one of those “oh, no, we’re keeping horrible secrets from each other” or rather “we both know what really went down but we don’t have to admit it out loud.”
well, I dunno if it was a great showcase for his field medicine skills….
Oh God, Jessie, best gif use ever!
And he was trying so hard poor soul with his shaking bloody hands. It was so intense!
It really was so intense.
hahahaha!!!
// then Sam slowly appears around the corner with the keys to their vehicle, looking tired but tough. //
Oh man, yes, that was totally awesome. I loved hearing the killing but not seeing it. Heroic ferocious Sam!
I’m still processing this one. An emotional roller-coaster for sure. One perfect tear to crush your heart. A lot of action to get your heart racing. Act One opening in the middle of a fight. The cast live tweeting during the episode.
In a lot of ways, this one was a throw back to Season 1 in terms of the lighting and setting. SPN hasn’t been this dark visually in a while. The acting was top notch. The (slight) surprise of the second set of werewolves was interesting and they haven’t done werewolves in a while.
I’m enjoying this Sam. The badass Sam, the “Big W” is so much fun. We expect it from Dean but when Sam goes full bore, it’s almost intoxicating.
The doctor telling Dean to “get some rest” which is the recurring phrase in What Is and What Should Never Be.
Dean dying to save Sam. No matter how many times they do that, it gets to me every single time, so I guess I’m fully invested. As Mark Sheppard has said, the spine of the show is the Winchester relationship and you either care or you don’t. I care.
//this one was a throw back to Season 1 in terms of the lighting and setting. SPN hasn’t been this dark visually in a while.// I agree, it was shot like a horror movie, which I really loved. Some really scary visuals, not the least of which was Dean dying on the floor. I was glad they did not make that a heroic death–though it was a fine line.
Dean lying–well, you knew he would, didn’t you? He did that head-and-eye roll when Sam started asking him what he had done, and I just knew he would shrug the whole thing off, especially since Billie didn’t say anything that they didn’t already know, and totally shut down Dean’s bluff.
Carolyn: UGH, no ‘the big W’ for Sam, please. It’s far too close to “Dubya” for my tastes!
LOL!
Well, they are all from Texas.
Every time I see the Big W I think of this scene from the movie It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World https://youtu.be/r97Nv8N7-mI
// I’m enjoying this Sam. The badass Sam, the “Big W” is so much fun. We expect it from Dean but when Sam goes full bore, it’s almost intoxicating. //
Oh, Carolyn, I so agree with this!
I didn’t clock “Get some rest” – and I totally should have – you’re right!!
// SPN hasn’t been this dark visually in a while. //
Seriously. It was awesome.
I liked this episode. Both brothers being bad-ass, doing anything for each other. But – the Impala drives away hood first in the end. Was Sam so truly badass that he backed the Impala in, while bleeding out, while knowing a werewolf might be on Dean? I kinda like it:)
Bwahahaha! That is such a funny observation!
Or maybe Dean went on a burger run while Sam was getting his “professional grade” stitches put in.
I’d do anything for ya, Sammy, but, you know, burgers… gotta go.
LOL!
Probably more like “Dean, seriously. Stop hovering. I’m fine. Go get a burger or something.”
Yeah.
I can actually hear that in Sam’s voice. (Also Dean would’ve had to clean a lot of blood out of his Baby.)
In Love Hurts, Dean backed the Impala into the parking spot outside the motel. It was so bizarre, when do they ever do that? Maybe after 11 years they finally realize they need quick get-away plans.
Although that would have deprived us of one of the most thrilling moments in this entire season – Dean backing out of that dead-end road at top speed, 180-turn, in “Baby.” Holy mackerel.
Right! I loved that. The look on JA’s when he did it. So cool. Reminded me of Steve McQueen in the chase scene in Bullet.
// Was Sam so truly badass that he backed the Impala in, while bleeding out, while knowing a werewolf might be on Dean? //
hahahaha
This was the most bad-ass Sam has been in … I can’t even remember.
I am thinking of the scene where Sam sews up his bicep as Dean paces behind him with a dislocated shoulder – maybe the butch-est the show has ever been.
When has he been this bad-ass before? I think our reactions speak to the fact that it’s a high water-mark of some kind on Sam-Badassery.
In a couple recent episodes, Sam has been mentioning how they need to remember that the family business includes SAVING people. I like how Dean remembers this; he won’t leave a wounded Sam behind (rightly so, imo), but he is willing to put aside his grief at Sam’s apparent death in order to get the two civilians to safety.
Dean remains consistent in that he is willing to give his life for Sam’s (he tells Billie to take him instead), but I like that he had someone waiting nearby to bring him back after he talked to the reaper. He seemed to be OK with not coming back, but he also had made a plan to be resuscitated even though in his mind Sam was gone. (If a reaper had been willing to trade him for Sam, no doctor would be able to revive him anyway.) He could have sent away the woman who followed him into the room; he could have snuck off with the drugs; but he didn’t. Even before he talks to Billie, he tells the people trying to revive him to roll him onto his back (they can’t hear him of course) in order to better facilitate saving his life; this is not “I have a death wish and I’ll die if Sam is dead.” This seems to me a more measured response than he’s had before when faced with Sam’s death.
I like this analysis.
I completely agree. Dean was still a little in shock (tazer pun intended) then Michelle says, “My mom said death is not the end”. You can see half a dozen reactions go across Dean’s face to include, I’ve heard that before, Winchester family motto, got the T-shirt, tell that to Bobby, etc. What finally dawns is “I have bound death, bargained with Death, been Death, cheated death and killed Death.” I’m Dean Winchester and this is what I do. He tells Michelle that he needs to talk to a friend, an evil, crazy Death machine (which is a weird way to describe Billie, Tess, or even Death), but he initially says ‘friend’. Knowing Dean and that Billie is a female he probably things he can sweet-talk death into a save for both himself and Sam. He’s not afraid of Death or dying. In true DW fashion he races in with only half a plan, but this is not a senseless “Sam is dead so I don’t want to live” action. I agree with you, AO, that his plan to be resuscitated clearly shows that he had no intention of dying a useless Death.
The Romeo & Juliet comparison is clear on the surface, but I have my own feelings about R&J. IMHO Shakespeare was a genius who was completely lampooning the idea of courtly love or as we would say angsty teen love melodrama. Some fangirls might see Dean’s actions that way, the same ones who think Romeo and Juliet are the greatest starcrossed lovers. My apologies if I have offended fans of R&J or S&D.
angsty teen love melodrama
it’s a fair cop.
It would be on the CW for sure.
I agree, what a tense episode. I feel that we’ve needed a reminder that Sam can be truly BAMF. ( I’ve always wanted to use that abbreviation in a sentence). Sam has been so cool and collected for the last while. Taking on responsibilities and the weight of the Darkness, seemingly taking everything in his stride. It was good to see him stripped down to his essence – sheer determination. Just an observation: Sam, as a chracter is at his best, at his toughest, when he’s working alone, such as in this episode or the first two episodes of this season.
10 out of 10 for season 11 so far. Holding thumbs for the last stretch.
// Sam, as a chracter is at his best, at his toughest, when he’s working alone, such as in this episode or the first two episodes of this season. //
Totally. He’s awe-inspiring. And Jared is so good. This actually loops in to what I was saying in the “What Is and What Should Never Be” re-cap. He, as a man, is so formidable, so huge and manly. His understanding of his huge body is amazing – maybe because he’s an athlete – he knows how to fling that big tall body around in these fight scenes – but he can play the vulnerability of how HURT the character is, how laid-low – the man was shot in the stomach. (How he survived that is a mystery.) Him heaving himself around, and falling, and crawling, and moaning … I mean, it was a tour de force.
I guess I’m in the minority (or I AM the minority); I wasn’t really feeling this one. They were just renewed, so I knew going in that if they were going to test Billie’s big threat, it was going to end up being an empty threat. That killed any sense of urgency to the episode for me.
I’m not discounting that I may have just been in the wrong frame of mind, and I will give it another shot, but I think this was the first episode of the season that didn’t really do it for me. That said, there were parts that I liked – Dean and Michelle’s conversation at the end was a highlight. The actress who played Michelle was very effective as well.
I’m with you on the Billie thing, Natalie. I’m just reading these comments now.
Bringing her on – and then having her just … walk away … didn’t work for me – not after she’s been so strongly set up as a reaper who is NOT PLAYING AROUND.
I loved that conversation with Michelle at the end. She will not be okay. You could see Dean try to take that in. I’ll have to watch it again. I remember there being a lot of layers in his listening reactions. Almost like … yeah, she’s right, then what the hell is going on with us that WE can keep going … how messed up are we … Am I NOT okay? and etc.
It was a very real and grounded moment.
On rewatch, it struck me that Billie once again delivered an important bit of news and then exited the scene. In Form And Void, she was key to Sam’s cure by talking about being biblically unclean. In Red Meat, she tells Dean that Sam isn’t dead. She is almost Shakespearan in her calm exit to stage left each time. Maybe the threat feels empty because it is? She is more of a messenger for someone else.
Was also thinking about her scene as Crowley’s guard at the door of hell with Dean and then Crowley had a line later that ep, “Unless you got the Almighty in your back pocket.” That seems more meaningful in retrospect.
// She is almost Shakespearan in her calm exit to stage left each time. Maybe the threat feels empty because it is? She is more of a messenger for someone else. //
Huh! I hadn’t thought of this. She really does do “calm exit to stage left.”
And the blazing white light she walks into in this last episode? We hadn’t seen that before with her either.
Could it be that Billy is the messenger from God? Can Billy be God in disguise all this time? Billy vs Amara? Girl on girl action? Dean would be in 7th heaven?
Ha ha Carolyn!
The PAULANIE mindmeld strikes again. Seeing as the Melanie end of that has been otherwise occupied I appreciate your working both ends on this!
Clearly if her purpose in the story is only to bring the threat of tossing the boys into “the big empty” then this appearance was anticlimactic and completely undermining to her threat. Your comparison of her to a Shakespearean character is perfect in the way that she inserts herself into the narrative, delivers some pertinent information, and glides off. I personally think “the big empty” might be the clue, the solution to Amara. They need to find a way to send her into it. Of course the answer would have to be delivered to the Winchesters in the form of a threat. Dean for one doesn’t trust God. Who would they accept help from? That’s their language. Her appearance at this point only really makes sense as a messenger or harbinger of something much more than Death.
You made it through the other side! //That’s their language.// Exactly. They were raised not to trust or ask for help. And where has asking for help ever gotten them? God has done nothing to help them, Cas’s help usually goes sideways in some way, Crowley and Rowena’s help comes with strings and bad intent and they killed their only other quasi-ally in Death. Doesn’t that say something when Death was usually the most reliable guy in their corner during a fight?
You’re right. The Winchesters wouldn’t accept help from any one unless there was a threat hanging over their heads.
We have a retired preacher who comes back to preach now and again. He is very good and very wise in general. He said, “Listen to me. If I repeat myself you can bet it’s important and if I say something 3 times you better sit up and take notes!” It struck me on rewatch that Billie said, “NO” multiple times and they focused in tight on her face when she said slowly and very deliberately the 3rd time, “The ANSWER will always be NO.” I’m not sure how that relates to Amara, but it made me sit up for sure.
Holy mother. Dean’s in such emotional/spiritual trouble.
Corbin was like a summary of Dean’s journey throughout the series — in spirit, if not in action. He makes extremely questionable decisions purely to save his wife (fiancee?) And then, inadvertently, gets a mark on his arm that turned him into a monster.
Before I get lynched, I know Dean never murdered an innocent person (if you don’t count meat suits, that is) even when he was a demon. But he does prioritize Sam over *everyone*. If Dean had ever been put into a situation where he truly believed he could only save one person, wouldn’t he always choose Sam?
BTW, has Dean ever bald-face-lied to a grieving civilian before? His telling Michelle that things would eventually go back to normal — I don’t think he ever believed that. Why would he tell her that?
Personally, I think Dean’s in the kind of helpless-to-save-his-loved-ones freefall that leads to making crossroads deals or getting a Mark.
*is worried*
On the other hand BAMF!Sam! Wooo!
//gets a mark on his arm that turned him into a monster.// Ooh, nice connection.
//His telling Michelle that things would eventually go back to normal — I don’t think he ever believed that.//
I think he wanted to believe it? Perhaps feeling the unfairness that he got the person he loves back while she didn’t .
I don’t know, I think he felt protective of her, and that’s what you say when you’re, say, a fireman or a police man or a soldier – when faced with a traumatized civilian. You let them know they’re going to be okay, they survived.
What interested ME was the look on his face when she said, “No. I’m not going to be okay.”
Similar to some of the things I was talking about in “What Is and What Should Never Be,” there was a mystery in the expression on his listening face – a lot of layers of questioning and surprise and thought and reflection – that I don’t really care to label or parse out.
I’ve been immersing myself in this blog and quietly following the Supernatural conversations but this is my first post.
First off, I love reading everyone’s comments – lots to chew on and process and some amazing connections to past plot elements. Sheila, all I can say is thank the gods I found your blog. It’s awesome!
As for Red Meat – what can I say but OMG!! My heart was racing and I had palpitations. I had to finish a bottle of wine just to calm down! ?.
Sam truly was a BAMF this episode, as was Billie. Although I wanted to see horrible things happen to Corbin, I also appreciated how they tied his actions in with the Winchester’s past choices. Although there might be minor details I could nitpick about, overall I loved this episode. I haven’t been as in love with the entire season as some fans but overall it has offered up some solid entries. Baby and Just My Imagination have been my favorites and I think this may join them.
Debbie – Thank you so much for reading and commenting! I appreciate everyone’s presence here and the conversations we have.
// I also appreciated how they tied his actions in with the Winchester’s past choices. //
Yeah, that was very good script-writing. I love it when they make those connections.
I haven’t read through the comments yet. Too busy writing for pay, y’all. But eventually I’ll get to them all. Thanks for showing up here, and playing nice – so I know I don’t need to “monitor” what’s happening. :)
Brief comments:
Romeo and Juliet brother-wives. I have long waited for this day.
Plus “legs.” So so so so many “legs” moments I couldn’t even keep track. I was overloading on “legs.”
Helena? Are you with me?
Plus fog in the woods and pitch-black-ness. Loved the chaos of the opening.
A little bummed that they “brought in the Billie” and then sort of had her … do nothing. Her threat to not revive them – established in the earliest episodes – was so serious that I wish they had held her back for a more serious moment if they were just going to have her stroll off into the light, like “Better luck next time …” She’s a Big Gun. Don’t bring her out unless you mean business.
But as long as there were Legs Akimbo all over the place, I was pretty happy.
also, it was nice to see Dean lie to Sam again.
Romeo and Juliet brother-wives. I have long waited for this day.
Yes but Sheila could we have dreamed that in the middle of his one-man Romeo-and-Reservoir-Dogs mashup Sam would also have chosen to restage Croatoan, Appointment in Samarra and AHBL2? I mean I admire the kid’s commitment to theatre, but damn that’s some avante-garde stuff right there — not to mention he probably didn’t need to so method in his Mr Orange impersonation.
// Sam would also have chosen to restage Croatoan, Appointment in Samarra and AHBL2? //
Ha! I know!!
//Helena? Are you with me?//
I’m here for the
pink shirts
And shouting angrily at trees
and annoying hipster beards vs grungy biker beards
and the bleeding, staggering, groaning and spewing white foam (eugh)
and the fact that when Dean lies down on his side his head doesn’t touch the floor
suicide and resurrections
and Billy
and the forest.
but mainly for the legs. This was a peak legs episode. Basically I couldn’t see the forest for the legs.
At times though those legs were in the forest. Truly the blurst of times.
Pink shirts. Yes.
I love, too, how the hospital was completely deserted – except for the doctor. Like, there was literally nobody else there.
And no one around. Even the shots outside were very gloomy, with the nothing-ness around, the rain, that poor excuse for a tree… So worrying.
Seriously!
“poor excuse for a tree” – ha! I know! and “cottonwood”? That already sounds like something at the dead-end of nowhere, no offense to cottonwood trees.
and thanks for the screen grab. The moment went by so quickly I did not have time to absorb it – although the sheer emptiness of the medical center (probably just a practical thing to cut down on extras – but it ends up being a “mood” thing) did impress itself on me and on the story.
Cottonwood was an Emergency Medical Center, like one of those walk-in ER clinics. So, not a hospital and reasonably empty. But honestly didn’t catch that until I could read the sign on the capture! So thanks for clearing that up.
Kathy – I thought it was unrealistic and funny that NOBODY was around. It was a completely abstract space, no budget for extras, or realism. It was like Croatoan that way. Those people who were there were the only people in the world.
Thrilled as always to have this safe corner of the interwebs to read and discourse on my beloved show. Thank you again, Sheila!
I didn’t see where we discussed the previous episode, “Safe House”? Am I missing something somewhere? Because that episode was awesome, too. A lot of fascinating brother relationship and mirror relationship things going on and, of course, the delight at seeing Bobby and Rufus again. Season 11 has been a joy.
At any rate, on to this episode. Initially, while exciting, “Red Meat” felt a little…remote…for me, like I wasn’t all the way *there* with it. However, on re-watch and after enjoying all the giffed-scenes and some of the comments on Tumblr, I think this is actually on the way to becoming one of my favorite episodes of an already deep and satisfying season. Not only did the episode explore Dean’s driving forces and his reasons for living, we were also reminded just how *physical* Sam can be, even though what’s pushing him through is his sheer will and determination. That is one powerful body he has, and more than once I thought: “He’s still not entirely human. He still has demon blood.”
I knew when Corbin was suffocating Sam that he didn’t hold on long enough to kill him, so some of the tension from his “death” wasn’t there for me. However, what was fascinating was Dean’s reaction to it. It was clear to me that if Dean hadn’t had the civilians to protect he’d have done something right there in the cabin, like open a vein, which would have meant that he’d have died. I wonder if Sam hadn’t been hammering the “saving people” bit since the first episode this season if Dean would have led the others out, one more heaping of guilt as he let them go to their deaths so he could kill himself next to his brother’s body. Totally Romeo and Juliet, because there would Dean be, bled out, when Sam revived. What would Sam have done then? I’m still thinking about that.
The thing at the end, “What did you do when you thought I was dead?” and Dean’s “lie”…well, I don’t think that was really a lie just from the looks on both of their faces. Sam knew Dean had done *something* but wasn’t going to push it when Dean simply replied “I knew you weren’t dead.” At this point in their relationship, I think that Sam knows that if Dean had done something irrevocable, Dean would have told him, and Dean knows that Sam understands that — and so they can calmly let it be. I think this speaks volumes to their maturity even within their never-changing (or going to change) co-dependency. I do wonder if it will come up again, though, in their familiar pattern of a fight, or will it stay in this “we understand each other” limbo between them.
A shallow note: OMFG Sam’s legs! Right? I mean they go on for fucking MILES! I think I stopped breathing at some points just because of his LEGS! (unf!)
Okay, I’ve banged on enough. Looking forward to reading more comments (and of course to more reviews of season two — can’t wait for AHBL I and II). And if anyone can point me to the discussion of “Safe House” I would much appreciate it.
I don’t thing we discussed “Safe House” but I could be wrong.
//demon blood//. That hadn’t occurred to me before. Thanks for pointing it out and I think you’re right. Evidently the gunshot didn’t hit any major organs (lucky Sam) but he was bleeding profusely so that superhuman strength had to come from somewhere coupled with his determination to find his brother. Wasn’t the first thing he said when he woke up was “Dean?”.
I’m a little uncomfortable with the phrase “brother-wives” but I get it. But I agree that the writers are letting Dean and Sam grow up. Particularly Sam who in this season has a calmness about him. He’s not frantic, he’s not running away. He has purpose and he’s ready for it. Which means Dean has to change and that process has also been fascinating. When Dean admits his vulnerability to Amara in “Love Hurts” and Sam accepts it like an adult with no panic, it says volumes about how Sam has slowly moved into the position of Dean’s protector and unlike previous seasons, Dean is allowing this to happen. The process started last season with Sam’s insistence on the removal of the MOC which I think seemed to hone Sam in some way and make him fully face that fact that he is a hunter but he can’t/won’t do it without his brother.
//Legs// Yes! Completely and totally shallow but I love it. I want them to do an episode at the beach in shorts in the summer just so I can ogle those legs.
//he probably didn’t need to so method in his Mr Orange impersonation// lmao, Jessie. Excellent legs episode. It was almost too much between the slow-mo drop to the floor in the opener (like watching a sequoia fall in the forest, he had so far to fall), then being propped up against the Impala and pouring himself into the car and that heartbreaking hallway drop at the end. As they say, Sam hurts so pretty.
Also, that opener had a parallel to Sam’s fall to the ground in ABHL I (epic Sam death #1), when he fell forward to his knees. It’s an interesting choice of direction, isn’t it? Wouldn’t you fall backwards if shot like that? Instead he falls forward.
// Sam hurts so pretty. //
Ha! I hadn’t heard that.
My Dad was a hunter (of the animal kind) and once was called on a grand jury where the wife supposedly shot herself; she fell forward and he said that if she was shot she’d fall forward but if she had shot herself she’d fall backward. The husband did it. I have *no* idea how he knew this but he was in WW2 which he never talked about so… Anyway, the experts at SPN apparently know this stuff, too! Congrats to them!
a VERY cool titbit Katie, thank you!
This is fascinating! I would have never guessed that.
This is so fascinating.
//then being propped up against the Impala and pouring himself into the car//
All I could think was “he’ll never get those legs in that car” (images of ‘About a Boy’ going through my mind.)
Just rewatched, I noticed the very, very long pan from Sam’s boot up that looking leg in the resurrection scene.
Wow! Crazy legs. Thank you, SPN.
// When Dean admits his vulnerability to Amara in “Love Hurts” and Sam accepts it like an adult with no panic, it says volumes about how Sam has slowly moved into the position of Dean’s protector and unlike previous seasons, Dean is allowing this to happen. //
Carolyn – YES. That last scene in “Love Hurts” was one of my favorites in this whole season.
Yeah, we didn’t do “Safe House.” I didn’t put up a post. I was too busy with “women writers week” at Rogerebert.com, plus the Tribeca Film Festival, so I think that one slipped by the wayside. Sorry.
// we were also reminded just how *physical* Sam can be, even though what’s pushing him through is his sheer will and determination. That is one powerful body he has, and more than once I thought: “He’s still not entirely human. He still has demon blood.” //
Yes! I was so struck by that too – although I hadn’t thought of the “demon blood” thing at all, I do admit.
For me, as much as Dean’s psycho-drama always seems to take center stage – Sam is equally impressive. And I am continuously blown away by Jared’s acting. He just “gets it”. And he was really in top form in this one, since the majority of it was physical. Phenomenal.
// Totally Romeo and Juliet, because there would Dean be, bled out, when Sam revived. What would Sam have done then? I’m still thinking about that. //
I know, the implications of the “what ifs” were amazing in this one. The missed-connections random-ness of it all …
Maybe, too, a reiteration of the fucked-up message: “Bad shit goes down when we separate. We must never ever be out of one another’s sights.”
// I think this speaks volumes to their maturity even within their never-changing (or going to change) co-dependency. I do wonder if it will come up again, though, in their familiar pattern of a fight, or will it stay in this “we understand each other” limbo between them. //
Yeah, that’s how I saw it too. I feel like Billie may be the one to spill the beans on what really happened. But the moment didn’t feel TOXIC, like Dean lying about killing Sam’s old monster-girlfriend.
It’s like: This whole thing was so intense, I’m fine, you’re fine – although you just got SHOT IN THE STOMACH – so let’s get the hell out of here and not talk about it anymore.
“Bad shit goes down when we separate. We must never ever be out of one another’s sights.”
as my D&D group’s most loudly shouted motto goes, NEVER SPLIT THE PARTY.
Ha!!
It reminds me of this amazing movie from New Zealand I just reviewed – The Dark Horse – starring the amazing Cliff Curtis. Based on a true story of a Maori chess-master – who taught the little street kids in his neighborhood to play chess. He told them that one of the rules of chess was:
“Don’t leave anyone behind. Protect the King and don’t leave anyone behind.”
GULP. It’s really good – I highly recommend it.
http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-dark-horse-2016
Or maybe he’s still got a trace of angel grace. And yeah, I am not concerned about Dean’s, “I knew you weren’t dead.” Sam knew and both still walking & breathing, so let it go. I think letting go of some things is part of their maturity and about time.
Oh how I adored this episode!! I yelled at my television a few times while watching which is always a sign of a good episode for me.
I’m still in wait and see mode over Dean “lying” to Sam. Honestly I didn’t see it so much as a lie as just a major information withhold. Sam did the same thing over being infected but it did come out later. I think Sam knew Dean was keeping something from him and he’s giving Dean time to process and come clean. I was in the same wait and see pattern last season to see if Sam would come clean about busting Metatron out of heaven and not burning the BOTD and I was horribly disappointed but I still hold on to hope!!!
Can’t wait to see how the great empty ends up playing out. They are bringing it up way too much for it not have some huge significance. I think almost the entire purpose of the episode was to bring Billie and the great empty back to everyone’s mind. I mean Natalie was dead on in what she said. Show has been renewed for another season and it wasn’t even the finale….so you knew that the “death” wasn’t going to stick however it played out. So there was some reason that they chose to have this type of episode now.
One other thing that I think this episode and “Safe House” brought to the forefront….no matter what hold Amara has on Dean or how strong it feels…Sam’s hold is still greater and stronger.
Withholding/lying are interchangeable in the Brothers’ World View, and both amount to the same thing, and result in the same thing: Bad Shit Goes Down.
I don’t think Dean’s “bad” for lying, Jeez Louise, I’m not scolding him – that’s not my relationship to the show – but it was such familiar “old” behavior, and I enjoyed it. Because No Good can come from it.
And when Dean keeps a secret – you know something’s really really bugging him.
you know I don’t think I even see it as withholding or lying — just as obvious joking deflection. Like you say it was pretty intense and overwhelming for him and I can’t blame him for needing a bit of space before he can process it. The way their relationship is at the moment I feel like a debrief session isn’t far away, and we can probably take it as read. Or alternatively go read the approx three million hyper-specific fics that I am sure are working it out for us!
// go read the approx three million hyper-specific fics that I am sure are working it out for us! //
hahahahaha
and yeah – unlike the pattern in the last 10 seasons – where “How you doing?” is always met with “Okay” – even if NOTHING is okay – this season has really taken us to another level with their relationship and Dean saying “I knew you weren’t dead” and not saying anything about Billie didn’t feel like a Knell of Doom or anything like that.
It probably will come back to bite them in the ass, I imagine – but I just don’t sense the internal conflict going on between the brothers that has been so much the focus in previous seasons – Season 8, Season 6, even the earlier seasons – when they just could not get it right with each other, and just could not communicate openly.
Everything feels different now – which I love. I love that they’ve been bold enough to take the characters to a new level with their communication. Like, Jensen is in his LATE 30s now, and Jared’s not far behind. They’re almost 40 freakin’ years old. The brothers have figured a lot of stuff out and come through a lot of stuff, and who they are are a result of what they’ve gone through. I like that shift.
// Can’t wait to see how the great empty ends up playing out. They are bringing it up way too much for it not have some huge significance. //
I agree! It’s such a scary phrase.
I tried to initiate a conversation about last week’s episode in the topic of the previous week, but I think it didn’t take. I really, really loved it too.
I’m amused by silly details, but that doctor was “Sam’s” mother in Swap Meat. And that episode is Red Meat. I like to think it’s the same person.
Yes to everything you guys said about the look (that fog!), the legs, BAMF Sam, brother-wives. I’m amazed they still manage to worry us with that. Although what came out of my mouth when Sam died was “not again!” Still, I was crying.
Although Dean did try to bargain again, when he looked at his dead brother on the floor, I thought I also saw something like “well, I’m going to try, but it had to happen for real eventually.” Am I the only one?
All of those reaction shots to Sam on the floor were simply phenomenal, Lyrie – I agree. And I was also amazed – in a sort of distant-from-myself way – that this particular situation would STILL have an impact on me, even after 11 seasons.
So many things were happening on Dean’s face. Tears were the LEAST of it. It felt extremely REAL.
No wonder he decided not to let Sam in on what the hell had really happened. That shit on his face runs so so deep!!
//So many things were happening on Dean’s face.//
Agreed – this was also a good episode for Things Dean Does With His Face TM
That should be a graduate degree field of study, it’s so deep.
Maybe I’m seeing what I want to see, but like Sheila and other people said, the characters have evolved so much. I don’t see the lie as a problem, and not even as a lie, either. I see so much acceptance in the two brothers. Not of everything, not completely, but still.
Sam knows Dean is not saying everything, Dean knows Sam knows, and they’re OK. Giving each other space.
When Michelle says “I watched the man I love die,” I feel like Dean knows he did too, and is now able to think that i’s messed up. Which he just could process a few years back.
I also love the sense of humour Padalecki infuses in all of this. Lately, Sam often has these little laughs of “this is messed up but it’s us,” and again, I see that as finally accepting stuff, like the nature of their relationship. Not because they’ve given up, but because they’re ready to evolve — despite the whole Billie debacle, I’m under the impression Dean could now actually move on — if not “be OK,” — and Sam is not fighting that relationship anymore — more working with it.
// Sam knows Dean is not saying everything, Dean knows Sam knows, and they’re OK. Giving each other space. //
Yeah, there is definitely a different vibe now – not just in that one moment but in this whole season. I’m really grooving on it!!
Sam knowing that Purgatory was unfinished business on his part. The WAY Dean took in that apology with minimum self-pity – and I actually believed Dean’s acceptance of the apology. Did everyone else?
He’s such a horrible liar that he normally gives himself away. So there, he just seemed okay in a transparent way – maybe the Purgatory thing still hurts – but so much has happened since then, it doesn’t weigh him down with anger anymore.
I’d have to watch that moment again.
The mother from Swap Meat! I admit that I kept waiting for her to yell, “Gary! you’re allergic to wheat gluten.” Her voice is so distinctive.
Wow, I did not clock her as the same actress!
Ok, I need some help here, guys. I agree with all of the comments about this episode except for the comments about Billy being the big bad. She’s a reaper, no more and no less. She can’t kill the Winchesters and they can only go with her if they choose to go with her. not to go when your time has come makes you an out of control nutcase (i.e. Bobby). But it still is a choice. So I didnt really see her on the scale of the real big bad, Amara.
I don’t see her as a Big Bad. I see her as a Big Gun, meaning you don’t bust her out until you need her. Her scenes through this season so far have been amazing and consistent. She’s a Big Gun, and her threats are very clear.
I liked that it was Billie who told Dean that Sam wasn’t dead – awesome moment – but she is so formidable a presence (unlike Tessa, who “bonds” with Dean enough that you sense a kinship there that isn’t present with Billie) – and her “I will make sure you stay dead” comment – said in, what, episode 1? whatever … seems like it should have been honored – like, if she showed up again … you KNOW shit is serious.
I felt like what happened in this episode lessened that sense of threat and that she “means business” just a tiny bit.
although, on the flip-side, what happened in this last episode may have Upped her determination in her ultimate goal. So I’m sure this will come back around again.
Plus, I love her outfit.
This is the second time Billie has dropped some useful info to a Winchester while gloating–her “Biblically unclean” comment to Sam and letting Dean no Sam was alive. That could be set-up for her having a larger agenda than she’s let on.
It does kind of violate the storytelling rule of three though–this is her third appearance and third time she’s delivered her threat and … no consequence.
// That could be set-up for her having a larger agenda than she’s let on. //
Yeah, in reading everyone else’s comments here – that makes a lot of sense.
I think what it comes down to is her “entrance” in the season was so powerful and haunting – that singing – that this last episode seemed to diminish her (just a tiny bit, not entirely), and I’m not crazy about that.
At least Dean didn’t call upon a crossroads demon! I would have been like, “My GOD. NO. STOP IT WITH THAT.” :)
Just wanted to share–someone finally made this episode a Romeo & Juliet captioned gifset.
sasquatchandleatherjacket.tumblr.com/post/142185609007/the-sun-for-sorrow-will-not-show-his-head-go
Any one want to talk about the new ep? I’m still trying to decide where the writing falls on a scale of Paint It Black to Route 666.
Do you think this summoning spell works for anyone or just Dean? ‘Cause I’ve tried it and I didn’t have much luck.
//Do you think this summoning spell works for anyone or just Dean?//
I tried it. All I got was a gerbil.
Helena that’s a cockroach. Pick up your biscuit crumbs.
I got five minutes in and gave up at the sight of all those teen angels. Folks, I think this one has defeated me. Plus I’ve been reliably informed that there are no legs in this episode. Don’t the writers even read this blog? LEGS ARE MANDATORY!
I think they gave us so much legs in “Red Meat” that they realized they needed to pull back a little (a lot) to keep us interested.
Boy, everyone talked a lot in this episode!
I am, sorry to say, “over” Rowena. It’s time for her to go – she serves no purpose anymore. Her coming back from the dead – huge anti-climax and not believable and also not necessary. I guess they felt they needed to have someone for Amara to talk to and describe what she was doing. But the connection between the two is not clear, I couldn’t even remember when they had hooked up – so it just didn’t have the punch it needed to have.
I continue to be impressed with Amara’s line-readings. She sounds like a confused child half the time (“I’ve always been alone …”) and her odd hesitations mid-sentence which gives the feeling that she is still getting used to language – and it’s a very interesting way to go with a supposed Big Bad.
It’s been such a strong season. But remember “The Bad Seed” back in the day? All exposition and setting up this Arc? No inner life, really? Just plot points. They “had to” do it, to basically set up their season, and then moved away from it to focus on creating one after the other after the other after the other great Monster of the Week episodes.
But so much talking!! And I don’t care, really, about any of it!
I care about the Dean/Amara thing. I care about the Sam/Lucifer thing. I love Crowley but I don’t care about him anymore – the long bargaining scene with Dean/Sam was well-played but it’s just a re-tread of other identical conversations. When Crowley was “dudebro” with Dean, it seemed like the show was tapping into some underlying sickness in the character – twisted and sexual and codependent – that I thought was really interesting and fresh. But then they bounced the Demon out of Dean, so Fan Fiction could happen – and that new element of Crowley was abandoned. Since then, he’s had fuck-all to do. I LOVE Mark Sheppard but I’m not seeing the point anymore. Rowena died. We don’t need her anymore. Something ELSE has been unleashed in this show in Season 11 – a re-commitment to Sam and Dean and their inner lives – always present – but really new and improved here – so all of those other characters are just … grating on me at this point. Especially if they make them impotent – as they’ve done to Crowley for 3 seasons now! And Castiel! So even now, when they both have more to do, I feel like: Okay, it’s time for you to go away now.
I did not understand Castiel sitting in the kitchen watching television. I don’t know what they’re going for there and it didn’t make sense. It wasn’t written very well either, because the script didn’t illuminate everything.
I may be reading into this and I don’t care what people say at cons or anything else. I am reading what I see on the screen – and it’s better that way, it clears things up: My take is, and what I sense onscreen, is that awareness of the Castiel fan-base and what they need (which is often at odds with the rest of the fandom) means he’s written “weirdly” at times. He can be all over the place. This started to happen around Season 9, 10. It’s like the writing staff is trying to please too many people. Don’t get me wrong, I get why they’re aware of Castiel’s fan base and of course you want to try to keep everyone happy – but in the case of Castiel, I somehow think that awareness has … lessened the character, at least his “use” on the show. The pop-culture crash-course … was, for me, the beginning of the end.
Teen angels. No. The corporate stuff – I’m so over it.
I’ve really enjoyed Misha playing Mark Pellegrino.
and speaking of Mark Pellegrino:
When he entered the kitchen, and started randomly tracing a crack in the nearby pipe with his finger … I started laughing out loud. I love him so much as an actor, that moment looked so ridiculous (in a good way), and so perfectly Lucifer. Lackadaisical: saying all these threatening things in a mild “whatever” voice, but meanwhile he’s also like, “Huh … look at that pretty crack in the pipe …”
//Boy, everyone talked a lot in this episode!//
LEGS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS
(sorry, Jessie, had to say this here ;-) )
Also, just generally, I feel you, Sheila, re all of the above. In particular, for me the character of Rowena and her associated universe (not the actress or her performance but the character itself) is a wasted opportunity and a toxic dead-end in ways that life is just too short to enumerate. But she’s also symptomatic of these other changes in focus and dilution of energy that have affected Castiel and Crowley. It made my heart sink to see her popping up again because I was so happy that they killed her off – and it was one of her best scenes, too, in my book anyway.
tl;dr #goawayRowena
I am OFFENDED that Sheila appears to subscribe to a quantity theory of legs!
hahaha
So true, I was trying to understand the reasoning for the Lack of Legs and that is entirely my bad.
Clearly, this is what we need, all day and every day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUDcTLaWJuo
// But she’s also symptomatic of these other changes in focus and dilution of energy that have affected Castiel and Crowley. //
I know, it’s weird how that has happened.
When did this happen? I’m clocking it at around Season 9 – when the focus started to shift in enormous unstoppable ways back on the psychodrama between Sam and Dean – as it should be, honestly.
Unless those characters somehow pour into/comment on that relationship – they’re just plot-points.
and yes: Rowena. She was a fun novelty for a season. Let her go. She’s not enough of a threat to be of any use to this situation. Unless they’re conscious of the “lack of girls” and if that’s the case: I, as a girl, don’t need girls on the show to find it watch-able. The LACK of girls is just as interesting as throwing girls into the mix just because.
I appreciate the “girls” concern, but yeah: Rowena being killed like that was a great scene. Bringing her back made me feel like “Meh.”
Even the “rivalry” between her and her son doesn’t matter anymore – the way it did near the end of Season 10.
It’s over. Let her go.
//It’s over. Let her go.//
I prefer this version of “Let It Go” – it starts at the 2:13 mark.
hahaha!
Maybe they should get Channing Tatum to play Rowena?
He’d kill at it!
I’d watch that…
I thought it was just me. I liked Rowena and was disappointed when she was killed off earlier this season, but the way she was brought back was hella lame – a self resurrection spell? Whatever. Was the last time Amara was shown was the time she just disappeared after the confrontation with a bunch of angels who tried to zap her? I couldn’t tell you, cause I tend to zone out when she’s onscreen. So she’s been “in limbo” all this time”, I guess. And please to explain to me how Rowena and Amara hooked up. I missed that explanation.
There was a lot of stuff packed into 40+ minutes: corporate angel drones, Casifer trying to garner support, surprise!Rowena, Amara convalescing, the brothers bumbling around with Crowley, attempted Cas exorcism, quick Mark Pellegrino cameo, Crowley and Cas intervention, Casifer vs Amara. My brain hurts.
And another Hiatus!?
It seems that SPN always places their finale later than other series. I’ve always thought it’s to maximize viewership, lessen competition for ‘finale night’ by being one week later. That puts another hiatus out there to balance their season.
Pat, I’m with you re: Rowena. When they explained her resurrection I felt like Kathy Bates in Misery “That makes no cock-a-doodie sense!!!”. And they did not explain how the hell she hooked up with Amara. In fact I cannot recall them explaining how Crowley escaped Lucifer. And since when is Lucifer the oldest? I thought Michael was first-born hence his connection to Dean.
Another hiatus!! C’mon, enough already!
I was disappointed in this episode but as Michelle mentioned, I’m not a fan of this writing team so may be extra nit-picky. It had some good moments but overall seemed like filler. Although it did make me wonder where they’ll go with the whole ” God’s chosen” being the only one capable of using a “Hand of God” against Amara. Perhaps it will be Sam and/or Dean! ?
Yes, Debbie, the “chosen one” comment from Dean caught my ear as well. Here’s my thoughts on that which I have been hoping for since last season’s finale.
Dean is (I hope) harking back to season 5 when it was revealed that he (Dean) was chosen to be Michael’s vessel and destined to lead the forces of God’s army. At another point he does a confirmation with Sam, who thinks Dean is talking about Cass, saying something like, “So you agree that if one of us feels they should do something, then we should support that?” To which Sam answers, “yes”. Sam took on Lucifer back then in Swan Song and I think Dean still feels he should have been the one to take on Michael. It’s time to fulfill the destiny he was chosen for. However, Billie says, “I never thought you’d go for suicide.” Again, is this her way of saying don’t take it on like a suicide mission? There was definitely a message in her words to Dean. Swan Song was a suicide mission as far as Sam knew, but even Dean’s bid to save Sam in ‘Red Meat’ had a plan to be revived. Excited for the possibilities…
I didn’t overall love this episode very much. However those 2 writers are not my favorites and so I feel like I sometimes watch their eposodes with an extra critical eye. I’m going to watch again this weekend with my husband and see if it improves. I already know he won’t love it….he watches for the car and there was a definite lack of Baby in this episode.
There was so much going on…that may have been part of the problem….it almost felt disjointed at times.
Now there were definitely moments I enjoyed. The comment Dean made about being slapped by a stripper in a Zorro mask….hysterical! I enjoyed the Amara/Lucifer confrontation at the end and Lucifer’s snark while surrounded by holy oil.
When did Cas get so lethargic? He certainly seemed aware of what was going on the time Lucifer was trying to kill Sam…enough that he managed to fight hard enough to take temporary control. Crowley said Lucifer’s hold was too strong on him….maybe that hold is getting stronger as time goes by?
// he watches for the car and there was a definite lack of Baby in this episode. //
hahahaha I love this.
//When did Cas get so lethargic?// This was my least favorite thing about the ep (and that’s saying something since Rowena had a weird resurrection spell and then hooked up with Amara without any explanation). He is supposed to be an angel, and if there’s anyone who would be aware of what would be happening, wouldn’t that be Cas? Also, Gadreel had to give Sam something to do, a fake case, to keep him tucked away in his mind but all Lucifer had to do was give Cas Netflix to keep him passive. Either it’s sloppy writing or someone in the writer’s room doesn’t like Cas.
//being slapped by a stripper in a Zorro mask//
this must be from the porn version of Amelie
I never get sick of insights into how bizarre and hilarious Dean is in the sack (or, at least, in his fantasies). We never SEE it so it’s always amusing when we get a glimpse. And he’s so not judgey towards himself about it. He just threw that comment out there and Sam barely blinked which was even funnier.
Right? More than his impeccable body, that to me is sexy as hell. He must be so. much. fun!
My favorite gif of all time. A+
hahahahaha
and Dean is so out there with his sex drive, porn mags lying around, etc., but you still don’t know how dirty he might get in his brain. It’s so funny to me.
And Sam is in his room, still watching porn like its a documentary.
//And Sam is in his room, still watching porn like its a documentary.//
and viceversa, Paula!
#dungbeetles
Firefly, yay!
But let’s not forget how insane and macho Sam is when he does eventually get naked.
I don’t think we’ve ever seen him having “tender love-making sex” the way we’ve seen with Dean a couple of times.
Sam seems to be an “I don’t even need to take my pants off for this” kind of guy.
and the girls love it.
Uhm, yeah.
right?? Also the Url of that gif is making me laugh out loud. “hotsexgif.” hahahaha
//Sam seems to be an “I don’t even need to take my pants off for this” kind of guy.// uh yes this.
I have a whole folder of SPN gifs, so in order to find the one I need, I need to name them well.:)
Good archival work from you, Lyrie. I’m impressed.
Yesssss. Love it when Dean just throws these things out there and to people he probably shouldn’t, although I loved Crowley’s reaction here too.
Belladonna. One of my favorite moments of this kind. Poor Sam. It’s two to one in that scene, and he doesn’t stand a chance.
Uhm… Yeah, Michelle, when I see those names, I tend to sigh and wait for shitty dialogs and improbable twists.
Like you, guys, so many things made me roll my eyes. I loved Rowena, but now I want her gone. Castiel, WTF? etc.
But I have to say that I have found a lot of some small moments great. I loved Crowley going “oh bloody hell” and just ‘smoking in’ Castiel. Generally, I love the moments where Crowley and the brothers have some sort of complicity, as old ennemies.
I love Amara.
And Dean’s face before he says to the others that he recognizes it’s her work. We know he knows before he speaks. He has his Amara face. I love Ackles.
I don’t love (understatement) Heaven Incorporated, but I found funny and disturbing to see Lucifer barge in with his evil libido, sitting on people, wearing Castiel. Ew, fun!
Speaking of which:
// When he entered the kitchen, and started randomly tracing a crack in the nearby pipe with his finger …//
One of those tiny moments I loved in the episode! The way I see it, he’s doing his threatening thing, and it’s so obvious that he has the power that he has time to think of something else. He’s being all sensual “Hmmm, I love that wall. Could fuck that wall if I wanted to. I’ve fuck Castiel, I’ll do whatever I please with you, Crowley, I’m not even talking about my bunk buddy Sammy, I can fuck the whole world.” Lucifer and his dick of steel, is what it evokes to me.
TMI?
Oh I think Lucifer is all about his dick of steel, Lyrie.
Did you notice the signage on the building when Ssm and Dean rushed outside and the sky was swirling dark? So weird to see a skyscraper in SPN but it was pretty cool that the sign read “AKF” for Always Keep Fighting. Nice touch.
Oh, nice catch, Paula!
Yeah, skyscrapers are rare in SPN, and I’m pretty they shot Hunteri Heroici in the same area.:)
// And Dean’s face before he says to the others that he recognizes it’s her work. We know he knows before he speaks. He has his Amara face. //
YES. I clocked that moment too – it was my favorite one in the episode, the real “take away.”
// He’s being all sensual “Hmmm, I love that wall. Could fuck that wall if I wanted to. I’ve fuck Castiel, I’ll do whatever I please with you, Crowley, I’m not even talking about my bunk buddy Sammy, I can fuck the whole world.” //
I cannot stop laughing.
“Could fuck that wall if I wanted to.”
That’s exactly what MP is doing. I’m guffawing.
// Lucifer and his dick of steel, //
You see, you are almost making this episode sound like it’s worth watching. I mean, I’d watch the fuck out of that episode.
I am enjoying reading people’s thoughts here. But having to watch all those pimply teen angels with my actual eyes? nopenopenope
Ha ha ha, Helena, I know!
This whole conversation, this morning, has taken a turn I did not expect. (sorry)
HA!
//This whole conversation, this morning, has taken a turn I did not expect.//
however, I feel it is a correct and necessary one ;-)
(also that gif reminds me of the end of the clown episode when Sam says he was squirted by a flower and Dean diiieeesss laughing. Ahh, happy days.)
Strippers again. Plus PCP, which is such an old-school 1960s drug reference – it was banned in the mid-60s it was so dangerous – Angel dust stories always scared the shit out of me. So Dean bringing it up is so hilarious and strange to me. You don’t hear about PCP anymore. “Angel dust”, Dean? What the HELL have you been doing.
Yeah, those angels … internship angels. I understand. Maybe we could just fast-forward through those parts to where Mark Pellegrino tries to bring a wall to orgasm.
//Maybe we could just fast-forward through those parts to where Mark Pellegrino tries to bring a wall to orgasm.//
whenever they want any cooling towers demolished they just get MP to wiggle his fingers at othem and then – poof!
or rather – poof!
Also, what do we think about the “He’s not an ‘it'” conversation? There was some Retweeted commentary in my Newsfeed from Sam people who were extremely upset about that conversation. I don’t really watch the show in the same way as these people do but I enjoyed reading the commentary because it made me think about the moment in a deeper way.
I just assumed that Sam said “it” meaning “the vessel” and Dean, quiveringly sensitive as he is, called him on the language goof-up and they moved on. They definitely had an interesting disagreement going on – a battle over Cas inside of Lucifer – but I don’t feel that Sam was being portrayed as “bad” there.
Meanwhile: Cas is watching Netflix. Stupid. Sorry. But it’s stupid. They don’t know what to do with Cas anymore (the writers, I mean) and this season has explicitly acknowledged that – Cas even said it!
I don’t understand people’s responses to this. Sam meant the vessel and he was right. It’s an it because there is no Jimmy anymore. If they switch Lucifer out, who’s going to become his new ride? Some poor sap that agrees to it?
This is where I’m confused because can’t Cas exist as a celestial wave of light (or whatever) as opposed to a human whose existence is tied intimately to their body?
I know, in re: Cas. That’s the thing that you lose when you make Heaven explicit, with all these good looking “Colors of Benetton” intern angels. You lose the sense that they don’t need vessels – that they are celestial beams that, on occasion, take human form.
Castiel is still Castiel – if I’m not mistaken.
What exactly is wrong with Castiel, at this point? I’m missing the Cas bodily-function thru-line. He’s an angel – but … can’t teleport? Why, exactly? He has wings again, albeit tattered, but … he can’t fly? I can’t keep up. Mainly because I’m bored.
and yeah: I thought “it” was quite reasonable, at least in terms of their argument – which was a pretty good one, good conflict.
I’ll need to re-watch this scene. So much was going on, they have talked SO MUCH, that that conversation was drowned. In the moment, I understood it as Sam being practical, Dean being attached to Cas in a way that makes a little irrational, because come on, the dude is an angel. And if memory serves, he was an angel who was looking for redemption? Which makes his apathetic behaviour even less understandable for me.
// He’s an angel – but … can’t teleport? Why, exactly? He has wings again, albeit tattered, but … he can’t fly? I can’t keep up. Mainly because I’m bored.//
Don’t know, don’t care. I haven’t cared for almost two seasons, when angels were trouts with pants that were too short.
// Don’t know, don’t care. //
LOL.
Clearly I am hanging out with the right crowd.
// And if memory serves, he was an angel who was looking for redemption? Which makes his apathetic behaviour even less understandable for me. //
Yeah, there’s that too.
I am trying to understand that choice. I don’t get it. Definitely a call-back to Sam researching ghoul/cheerleaders (ha) but not at all with the same punch. It made no sense.
//Don’t know, don’t care. I haven’t cared for almost two seasons, when angels were trouts with pants that were too short// ha, is it progess that we went from trouts in too-short pants to teenagers in business casual wrap sweaters? It appears the SPN wardrobe department doesn’t like angels either at this point.
There’s not much in Supernatural that They (collaboratively speaking) get really, really wrong and so far off the mark. I have even missed leviathans and smarmy Dicks for heaven’s sake. So I am choosing to believe that the bland, boring, stupid Heaven inc with it’s underpaid interns has a purpose. I think and hope they are moving toward an “appearance” of God in some way and you wouldn’t want the supreme being to disappoint. Now if HE is not Chuck you’ve already got thousands of fans disappointed (and a few, like me, who will be disappointed if he is, but whatever.) Their best chance of impressing with awesomeness is in stark contrast to the baby suits. Give us some real Old Testament hair like Cain/Omandson and Renaissance flowing robes and rippling biceps like Michaelangelo, some age and wisdom like the Joshua character in heaven’s garden. I want to see some smiting of upper management and restoring Heaven to a place you’d want to spend eternity in not the universe’s largest storage unit facility on the back side of nowhere. (Season 12? Although I personally am still holding out for an ol timey love triangle and I don’t mean Sastean!) Surely it’s got to be about the contrast.
// Give us some real Old Testament hair like Cain//
Best. Description. Ever.
Oh, those grey-clad angels. Why.
I wonder if there is anyone out there who LIKES the teen-angel faction? Or Heaven in general, at this point.
The demons aren’t much better.
Just rewatched Red Meat again. Can I just say how much I love Bob Berens again?
Was it Lyrie that mentioned the loneliness of that urgent care facility? Such a derelict place and that tree out front – was it dead or just sad and pathetic? Ugh.
Hello, Gun Porn Central friends! Yesterday I manipulated a Colt 1911, I feel closer to Dean Winchester than ever. :)
So, funny thing happened to me while reading through this post. I dropped my new phone and had to reactivate my old one a couple days ago. The tech had me activate an app that would do something supposedly good for me. Well when I began reading every single gif and link was blocked! My delicate sensibilities were being aggressively protected from the sex, drugs, rock-n-roll, and alcohol that were being spewed at me from the evil internet, BUT…guess what wasn’t blocked at all…the gun porn arsenal, amazing as it is…hmmmmm?!? What does that say?
Okay, The Chitters.
Some of the “losing a brother” stuff was a bit too on-the-nose for me. But I really enjoyed the two other hunters: Jessy and Cesar. I thought I had seen the actor who played Jessy in other things, but not per IMDB. Something about his performance reminded me of Jason Patric in After Dark, My Sweet – I think his punch-drunk vulnerability. I was hoping they’d team up in the future. Oh well.
I think we’ve commented before, shouldn’t Baby be parked in the garage at the Bunker, rather than left out front?
And Kandyse McClure – always good to see another Battlestar Galactica alum. I think she came all the way up to Sam’s sternum: a small town sheriff (rimshot!).
The Chitters.
Yes, mutecypher, sometimes the parallels are really on the nose, but I tell you, some people in the fandom need things to be on the nose to keep them from trying to twist things in a completely opposite direction and then get upset when it doesn’t ever pan out (because it wasn’t intended to pan out in the first place).
At any rate, I liked the episode, there were some great Sam and Dean moments, I loved Jesse and Cesar, but I felt that maybe the pacing was off a little? Scenes seemed to linger on things a little longer than was necessary, or didn’t pay off the way they seemed they should? Like why did we see the old sheriff washing his face? I don’t know what was off. I don’t have Sheila’s vocabulary for what I thought I was seeing/feeling.
I was happy about there being a new kind of monster that it made sense the boys hadn’t seen before. I loved that the gay couple actually *survived* and that Dean and Sam knew not to “touch that” when Jesse and Cesar said they were going to retire.
I really like this new writer, but I feel that all the writers, new and old, should brush up on the show from time to time, like on Supernatural Wiki, because when Sam and Dean were kids vampires didn’t exist, they’d been wiped out (or so John had thought), and the boys didn’t learn about rugarus until season 4’s “Metamorphosis”. But that’s being nit-picky, I suppose. It’s not nearly as bad as the goof in “Hell’s Angel” where Lucifer was referred to as the first born when we all know it was Michael, hence the Dean/Michael, Sam/Lucifer parallel.
I’m really looking forward to next week’s episode (11.20) because that’s the one Jared was talking up at recent conventions, saying it was the most emotional script and he was so excited about it.
Still, “The Chitters” was a fun MOTW episode and over all, season 11 has been nothing short of a gift, as far as I’m concerned.
Yes, the face-washing was a bit odd. I expected it to be a prelude to him just coming out and spilling the beans. But then he required even more coaxing. To some extent it heightened the tension of “will he tell what he knows.” I think that was the intent. It did feel oddly timed and almost made me think the old sheriff wasn’t going to talk – so, tension. But something was off.
Hi, I’m new, though I’ve been hanging around and reading your comments for a while now. I hope it ok that I come and chat.
I agree that the pacing seemed off. To me it felt like they were building up to something that just never ended up playing out. I also felt overall that the episode felt awkward somehow. There never seemed to be any real danger or final showdown or anything. I just kept waiting for the piece of lore they missed or the monster they thought was human to come out of the woodwork and make it difficult, or some morally ambiguous decision to happen.
The scene you pointed out (ex-sheriff face-washing) was especially difficult for me because, as you say it did highlight the tension but then not only did he not come clean right away, but the infomation he had to give didn’t lead to any change in the case. If he had told them there was a mommy monster that was uber scary or that he’d already tried burning the creepy larve and then we cut back to Dean and Cesar in the mine thinking they’ve got it all handled, that would have made sense but none of that happened. So the tension just kinda never payed off.
Also, yes it was good to see Kandyse McClure again – she was also in Dark Angel with Jensen back in the day where she did a really good job playing a blind woman in s2.
Agreed, I was expecting a bigger payoff in terms of information for monster hunting. It was certainly a big reveal for the character’s trauma and guilt. But I just didn’t care about him that much.
Glad you joined in.
//I think she came all the way up to Sam’s sternum// I noticed that too. They had to shoot her either sitting down or when she walked away, it was shot through the window of the door up high with the Winchesters still seated. Can you imagine the director trying to get them in the same frame? Ha.
I like Nancy Won a lot. And rammygirl, you’re right about continuity. I think I read somewhere, maybe Jim Michaels’ twitter, that the AD who was the person who was good at continuity checks left the show (can’t remember his name) so this made me laugh a little.
Having the ep focus on two new hunters, not angels or demons, was a breath of fresh air. I kept waiting for one of them to turn on Sam or Dean, or turn into the monster (God, this show conditions us to expect the worst to happen) BUT they were decent, relatively normal guys. Made me laugh when they found out they were sitting across from the Winchesters. I always expect other hunters would be OMG THOSE GUYS, the guys that started the apocalypse, the guys that keep dying and coming back.
Instead, they’re like, huh, we’ve heard your name but we’ve been hanging in Mexico hunting monsters. So chill.
Plus, now we have a precedent for hunters happily leaving the hunting behind.
For the moment, at least.
You nailed it right there, Mutecypher. First the banshee episode with it’s idyllic call to sunsets and retirement vs going out in a blaze of glory and now it’s the horse farm in New Mexico. I guess from here on out we are going to get occasionally softened-up for possible endgame scenarios. We barely got a breath after season 12 was announced.
One way or another I’m gonna start feeding the writers my xfiles crossover scenario where Sam goes to the FBI to head up a special monster task force and Dean is a part time consulting hunter.
//my xfiles crossover scenario// Sam and Scully examining evidence with caustic humor while Dean and Mulder conduct awkward but adorable witness interviews and compare porn collections. Skinner would walk in, “where do I know you two from?”
Where do I sign up for that? I need that.
Oh God, now this exists in my head, thank you so much!
Of course, Skinner! He and Samuel were the same ‘person’ all along, a benevolent alien who goes back in time to father a child who would grow up to marry a man of letters legacy (but has no clue) and be the mother of Sam and Dean so they can join the FBI and help Dana and Fox fight the fairies, I mean aliens (wink) or is it the global government cover-up or kooky conspiracy theorists, wait a minute whose side are we on again?
//I kept waiting for one of them to turn on Sam or Dean, or turn into the monster… Made me laugh when they found out they were sitting across from the Winchesters.//
YES! “I heard you bit it…” “Long story.” Ha!
YOU KNOW YOUR HERBS. Oh Sam.
And then Dean teasing him about back in college. “It was probably just oregano.”
During the flashback scene at the beginning, I questioned what I was hearing – is that kid saying that he likes another boy? Is that kid a boy or a girl with really short hair? I realized it was a male when he went behind a tree to pee. Then I thought this is really cool that SPN dropped in that bit of diversity.
I liked the intensity of the actor playing adult Jesse; my heart broke when he found his brothers remains in the Chitter cave. I wouldn’t mind seeing them teaming up with the Winchesters in the future.
Forgot to add: Did anyone else get a giggle when Dean started to show the woman his “this is a diddle” hand gesture?
The actor reminds me of JP in that way too. Both big and powerful guys but with that ability to pull it in and appear so young and vulnerable. Great casting.
Or even double-teaming.
I’M SORRY I’M SORRY I’M GOING put the rocks away jeez
Hahahaha, actually that would be JP and Jason Momoa with all that glorious hair and beard, but I digress…
Hi there!
I’ve been lurking about these Supernatural posts for months now, completely in awe of Sheila’s beautiful episode breakdowns and of all the incredibly intelligent discussion going on around the show. Mind if I join you…?
I can’t promise to be capable of contributing anything half as eloquent as most of the comments here, but I’m so incredibly excited to have come across other people who want to talk about this amazing show in the same way I do.
Welcome.
Welcome! I promise we don’t bite. Well, maybe Jessie and Helena…
Oh, so NOW she’s complaining.
Join the fun!
Yay thanks! Will attempt to dip my toe in the S11 waters when I get home from work tonight ;)
Did anyone happen to notice when Dean made one of his signature inappropriate-for-the-context jokes in the sheriff’s office that Sam actually kind of chuckled at it instead of the usual eye-rolling bitchface response? I thought it was an oddly touching moment and more evidence of the growth of their relationship. Sam didn’t leave Dean twisting.
Another very solid episode from Nancy Won! I liked the 2 new hunters that were introduced. Part of me would like to see them show up again in the future, but the part of me that hopes they get that happy ending is afraid for that to happen….very afraid.
Glancing around the interwebs, it seems like mileage varies on this episode. I wanted to ask, what did you feel was off about the pacing? Was it just too slow? Or was it to do with the way the characters were developed? It was an oddly quiet episode, I guess.
I enjoyed it–I thought the dialogue was good, the creatures appropriately creepy (that chittering sound! the revival-meeting shaking! The ooky “maternity ward”!), and I liked the Stephen King-ish atmosphere of the town in denial about what is going on in the forest. And even more, I liked Jesse and Cesar. They’ve joined the ranks of one-off characters I’d love to see again, which is something at which this show excels. It’s interesting to see how the stories are often structured so that the supporting players take center stage for their episode, even when they are never coming back.
I have to say, zombies, even insect-like green-eyed chitter zombies, are not my favorite monsters, I think because they are generally without motive. They’re just hungry–or in this case, horny. So zombie stories have to be about the survivors, not the monsters, to be successful. For me, the (Derry-like) town and Jesse’s backstory kept my interest, so I’d call it a solid success.
Horny isn’t a motivation? Oh Barb, you don’t really mean that.
*blushing–Oh, you know what I mean!
I didn’t make fun of Paula’s comment about biting Helena or Jessie (Has anyone? How did they taste?). So I had to go for this one.
1. Horny is totally a motivation.
2. But seriously, this has me thinking, We have the most asexual set of monsters on this show. Part of the creep factor for this ep for me was the sexual nature of the attacks and then seeing the den of ‘forcibly impregnated women’ and the mindless drive towards procreation. Despite all the innuendo thrown around, if you take away vamps, there is very little. Only one I can think of is the spider-creature in Unforgiven.
3. //(Derry-like) town// Barb, you got this right. Very Stephen King like in the denial and then the guilt of the old sheriff. The pacing of that scene is odd, but it reminds me of Stephen King books like The Tommyknockers.
Well, like I said, I just don’t have Sheila’s background and vocabulary to really articulate what I found “off” about last night’s episode, but just watch the whole interrogation of the old sheriff scene. It starts off slow, then it gets slower, then the guy is inexplicably washing his face, then he still won’t talk, Jesse is barely holding on, Sam then gets overly dramatic, Jesse goes over the top, the old man is crying — all I can say is it just didn’t *flow* logically or realistically. I think it was the director or the editor’s “fault” — how the scene was shot, the direction given for it, and then how the scene was cut together. It just felt awkward the way most of the other scenes didn’t nearly so obviously, even if they also seemed a little slow. Pacing is the only way I can put it, but as usual, any scene with Sam and Dean together was pure gold, especially the “Sinner” scene. Could Dean be more adorable? I don’t think so. Sam’s “Idiot” was perfect. I will definitely watch the episode again and see if any of the “off-ness” goes away.
I felt like it was clunky, and maybe that some writing and directing inexperience was showing. This came up mostly in the pacing issues that Rammygirl and Jenny (welcome!) were pointing out and a stiffness in a lot of the scenes with the Sheriff – I normally respond better to that actress. And I really felt a lack of flow for Dean whose perkiness levels were all over the place.
It felt to me like Won had a few great ideas, maybe too many to make work neatly together. A sex pollen episode with all the messed-up stuff that entails, which was also about bodies being taken over which was also about past town trauma which was also about a man who lost his brother which was also about revenge and retiring. It didn’t feel like it was deeply about any of those things so it didn’t have a MOOD – melancholy or weariness or horror. For instance they had that horrifying image of the forcibly impregnated women dead and gestating a monster – that was a HUGE image and I was surprised nothing else in the episode spoke to it.
This makes it sound like I hated it but on the whole I had a good time and I’m looking forward to seeing what Won does next.
//For instance they had that horrifying image of the forcibly impregnated women dead and gestating a monster//
Yes, I wanted someone to shoot a grenade into that thing like Ripley blasting the Alien Queen.
Yes! The glowing green larva needed something a little more specific than gas can and a match. Who’s to say it’s not gonna escape up one of those worm holes.
Finish the job right, boys.
There was no twist, was I think what it came down to for people. Or maybe retired Sheriff’s daughter being a monster was supposed to be the twist but it wasn’t foreshadowed and didn’t mean anything plot-wise so fell flat. And as far as Jesse’ and Cesar’s story having an impact on Sam and Dean it was basically a retread of stuff we’ve been over quite recently. Loss, revenge, retirement.
They’ve been hitting those beats hard – the retirement part just confuses me at this stage, because we’ve got season 12 to go at least and I very much doubt they’ll fold another Sam or Dean tries to settle down story into season 12.
Agreed. The Samulet issue used to make me genuinely sad, but after Fan Fiction – and after reading Sheila’s thoughts on it – I felt like things were finally resolved. I didn’t see how they could ever bring the real object back without it being horribly over-sentimental, so I loved how it finally came back into the boys’ possession not as a symbol of brotherly love but as a tool with a practical purpose: to locate God. Very impressed that they managed to completely avoid the saccharine and yet, looking back on Chuck’s comment (“You wouldn’t believe where it was the whole time!”), after the final scene, I now believe that Sam must have had it all along.
Oops this comment came out in totally the wrong place…I was actually replying to Pat!
There are needs–and then there are motives that require thinking with your upstairs brain–
“Don’t Call Me Shurley” had me wiping a tear away when the amulet showed up. It brought a range of emotions: disbelief, happiness, excitement, hope, sadness (that it was tossed 6 seasons ago). You couldn’t slap the grin off my face when it lead them to Chuck.
I just hope it goes back around the neck of either brother.
Agreed. The Samulet issue used to make me genuinely sad, but after Fan Fiction – and after reading Sheila’s thoughts on it – I felt like things were finally resolved. I didn’t see how they could ever bring the real object back without it being horribly over-sentimental, so I loved how it finally came back into the boys’ possession not as a symbol of brotherly love but as a tool with a practical purpose: to locate God. Very impressed that they managed to completely avoid the saccharine and yet, looking back on Chuck’s comment (“You wouldn’t believe where it was the whole time!”), after the final scene, I now believe that Sam must have had it all along. Hoping to see Dean wearing it again next week.
I checked out some other peoples comments on last nights episode and found that some are saying that Sam had the amulet all this time, that he picked it up out of the trash can back in S5 and it has been in his possession. My thought was that Chuck was ready to be found and he “put” the amulet in Sam’s pocket for the brothers to find it and for it to lead them to him. If I squint, I can see it either way.
Another re-appearence by an actor from a past episode; the blonde female sheriff played the murderous nurse in Croatoan. I recognized her lips right away.
So apt that the actress came back since there was the whole throw back to that episode. When Dean said “I’m not leaving my brother”, I shouted out CROATOAN which totally confused my husband.
I was concerned about the schmaltz with the way the ep started but was really moved by everything (bless Robbie Thompson, a fan writing for the fans). We waiting six years for the real Samulet SIX *effing* YEARS, and based on what Chuck said and how Dean pulled it from Sam’s pocket, no one can tell me that Sam didn’t have it all this time. Seriously, how are they going to top that moment with the finale this year?
And having Rob sing that song, while total fan service, was the perfect choice in that moment.
I knew that one person here would not be happy about the Chuck reveal *side eyes Melanie*
I agree, Paula. This was a great episode, right up there with “Baby”. The writing was emotional without falling into schmaltzy and I love the fact that it was Metatron ( who is not one of my favorite characters ) that was fighting for us. To me that was very smart because you would expect Sam or Dean or Cas or even Crowley to argue for us, but not Metatron who is so self centered and smarmy. But of all of the angels, he perhaps knows Chuck the best and would know how to get through.
I also think that it made sense that the story didn’t exactly focus on Sam and Dean. They were almost Story B as opposed to Story A. I think if confronted with Chuck directly in the midst of the story, Dean’s anger and Sam’s reverence would have weakened their arguments.
//They were almost Story B as opposed to Story A// it was also a weird reversal from what you would expect. The Sam and Dean story was almost mythical in its telling – the drama of the fog, Sam becoming infected, Dean breathing in the fog to go with Sam (again with the Romeo and Juliet scenario) – and yet the God story was weirdly normal with just two guys hanging out, talking and playing guitar.
Also that baby girl reaching for Sam when he was infected and was falling down. I can’t even talk about that.
//But of all of the angels, he perhaps knows Chuck the best and would know how to get through.//
I think he is also the angel who knows humanity best. How long has he been collecting our stories?
Excellent point, Natalie.
Haven’t even seen it yet, packing my daughter up at college, but it was pretty inevitable. I mean ‘Don’t Call Me Shurley’. I couldn’t resist stalking the comments in the meantime.
I was also previously not happy about the prospect of Chuck as God – mostly because I’ve always LIKED Chuck, and the show, up to this point, did not particularly give me any warm and fuzzy feelings about who God is – but they managed to win me over completely. I should have had more faith in the writers. (It helps that Metatron voiced virtually every one of my criticisms of Chuck as God – the show is so good at that.) I ended up delighted by something I thought would be a terrible disappointment. Go figure.
It’s funny, the whole way through this episode was teetering on the edge of “too much” for me, but I was willing to give it a chance and see where it went. Turns out it went somewhere so perfect and beautiful that it completely and utterly won me over. I was writing notes throughout which became completely incoherent during that final sequence, and when I read back through the doubts I’d had earlier in the episode, I simply couldn’t bring myself to care about any of them. That’s magic right there!
Same here! My heart sank initially when Chuck revealed himself as God, but as it went on, I was like, “Oh. Okay. I can go with this.” And the amulet was just brilliant. I seriously thought they were going to let that go after Fan Fiction, so to bring it back now, and the way that they did – I was just a puddle of goo by the end of the episode!
It’s another level of meta to have the writers write that writing is so hard that even God can churn out something as clunky as ‘Bugs.”
I like that Chuck got snarky a couple of times with Metatron. He can make fun of himself but be careful what you say back. It was good that Chuck wasn’t just the nebbish slob we remembered but instead egotistical and a little menacing. “You see what I want you to see.” Finally see the connection to how he might be like his sons, right? World’s Best Father.
The World’s Best Dad mug was awesome. A very nice touch
I just wonder if God and Amara are brother and sister, who their parent was.
Also, Metatron has no future as a bartender after that 4/5 foam beer he pulled from the tap.
Jerkiness aside, a very good episode, with the potential to reset a lot of things.
//I just wonder if God and Amara are brother and sister, who their parent was.// Oh please don’t go there. It would make my brain hurt.
//Also, Metatron has no future as a bartender after that 4/5 foam beer he pulled from the tap.// Yesterday, in his Twitter account, Curtis Armstrong mentioned that he had to draw that beer a dozen times so he asked not to be blamed.
Ok, so get this. If we talk creation myths and use the analogy of Amara as Gaia and Chuck as Tartarus, her brother/husband, then their parent is Chaos as known as the Void. Coincidence? I think not.
Loved that!! I know we try not to talk about too much behind the scenes stuff here, but I did find it very touching that Robbie Thompson actually contacted Eric Kripke to get his blessing before he poked fun at “Bugs” and that Eric gave him full blessings and said it was great.
// Curtis Armstrong mentioned that he had to draw that beer a dozen times so he asked not to be blamed.//
I figured it was just the character. Curtis seems like he’d know how to draw a beer.
And I completely agree with your comment upstream that Metatron was a great character to be pushing back on Chuck and defending humanity.
Oh this episode!! I’ve definitely got to rewatch again because it was almost too much for my emotions to handle! I’ve always believed believed/hoped that Chuck was God so I was thrilled that the show finally outright acknowledged it. I always felt very strongly that Erik Kripke meant for Chuck to be God, but I knew that Jeremy Carver could go anywhere he wanted to with the story. When I found out that Rob was coming back I was excited but very nervous.
The Samulet……oh the Samulet. The tears I shed last night over that little piece of jewelry. I loved the shout out in Fan Fiction that they gave to the amulet and I would have been….ok….if they had never brought it up again. I’m not going to lie though, that episode didn’t give me the closure that it did for some people. I wanted to see that amulet again. I didn’t need a mushy scene between Sam and Dean over it, and I didn’t need to see Dean wearing it all the time again….I just needed to know that it didn’t stay in that trash can. Whether Chuck has had this whole time or Sam has had it all along…I’m ok with either one of those. I have seen it. It is not in a garbage heap somewhere. Now I have closure.
// If we talk creation myths and use the analogy of Amara as Gaia and Chuck as Tartarus, her brother/husband, then their parent is Chaos as known as the Void. //
Yes! Paula, I’ve been noodling on that since we discovered Amara’s relationship to Chuck. It makes perfect sense to me which is so freakin’ scary. It sort of makes me wonder who is the religious scholar on this show. Kripke? Has be been channeling Joseph Campbell or Edith Hamilton? Someone has a very interesting though twisted theological viewpoint.
Kripke as casual religious scholar which made what the story they came up with even better because he didn’t feel like they had to adhere to any story and the writers could play with all of these ideas. And they just keep twisting that viewpoint too. I know it frustrates a lot of fans (horrors, don’t mess with the mythology!) but I love that about the show.
It seems that Chuck sees his role strictly as creator. So what about destiny? This was such a big part of S4-5 and not one of Metatron’s many questions to him (that I remember). Maybe he just “suggested” a few things to the archangels and they ran with it, creating a structure and a mythology around it? A little like a parent who makes a throwaway comment to their kid and finds out years later how much of an impact it made.
I liked Chuck-as-God more than I thought I would. The actor brought those chilling glimpses of injured pride and wrath and those moments when he’s ‘performing as Chuck’ not ‘being Chuck.’
Metatron was great, words I never thought I’d type–(though I’d never thought he was a complete waste as an antagonist.) But he’s perfect as God’s critic because he’s such a self-centered schlub and has no sentimental attachment to humanity–if even Metatron says you’ve done fucked-up, you’ve done fucked-up, son.
Loved loved that shot of the fog rolling down on the town and all that classic viral-plague horror, the infected battering at the glass doors and the duct-tape unravelling–you know it’s coming but it still got a jump out of me.
I’ve got to say that I wasn’t really feeling the Sam and Dean stuff–of course Dean isn’t going to leave Sam, ever, of course they’re going to die together–we went over this just three episodes ago. I wanted to get back to the Chuck and Metatron show, more words I never thought I’d type.
Sam saying that Dean will choose Amara–is that just set up for when Dean doesn’t choose Amara? Could it be that Sam’s faith in Dean might be tested in a big way by the end of the season?
“You wouldn’t believe where it was the whole time!”
I’m sorry.
Hilarious!!
Uh, guys. . Tell this can’t be true.
I hope not.
I second that emotion.
This week’s been a hell of a rollercoaster.
Aw, man, that is not good news if it means what I think it means …
I love Thompson’s writing for the show, much as I love Ben Edlund’s writing – at his he just pushes the show into unexpected places, while being simultaneously best fan and best critic. If this is his last episode, then, boy done good.
Uh-oh:(
I didn’t have an opinion about Is-Chuck-God and I liked it that way. I didn’t want to know. I’m really glad Thompson wrote it in a way that still leaves room for the imagination, though: sure, he’s Chuck, but he is still so much more. We know we’re only seeing what he wants us to see. He’s not just Chuck. I’m OK with that.
And we don’t know where the Samulet was, and I don’t want to know. So, all good.
I’m so happy Rob Benedict was up to the task. He’s great as that Woody-Allen-y Chuck, but then, don’t piss him off, he is fearsome! (Those eyes! If he get bored again, I volunteer to be his girlfriend. I’m curious to see what sex with God is. This show, seriously.)
I’ve always loved Metatron – and loved hating him – because, strangely, Curtis Armstrong makes him so very human, somehow – I don’t have any other words to describe what I see. Sure, he’s not humanity’s greatest supporter, but he still roots for us. If we can do better despite our imperfections, if we deserve a second chance, so does that old whiny baby. Man, that single man tear was so moving!
I love that kind of white noise they use to make the place out of the world. I haven’t payed attention to that, but I feel like they hadn’t used it in a while? It really brought me back to those first seasons I hold so dear, which were so mythology heavy.
Knowing that the song was also a way for Robbie Thompson to say goodbye to the show and the fans breaks my heart a little.
Also, last week’s episode and this week’s made me think: damn, isn’t Canada a gorgeous place!:)
//I knew that one person here would not be happy about the Chuck reveal *side eyes Melanie*//
I did not hate it. I had been stealing myself and actually found I was OK with it. Read on Twitter someone voiced that Chuck was not God, but God was acting the role of Chuck. That explains a lot of the wimpiness that I did not want to ascribe to God.
//I’m really glad Thompson wrote it in a way that still leaves room for the imagination, though: sure, he’s Chuck, but he is still so much more. We know we’re only seeing what he wants us to see. He’s not just Chuck. I’m OK with that.//
I agree, Lyrie! Me too!
Actually Chuck!God said he’d written Supernatural and Revolution which leads me to believe that not Chuck, but Kripke is the god of the Supernatural universe. Interesting that Robbie would write that and yet so entirely accurate even 6 years later.
//It helps that Metatron voiced virtually every one of my criticisms of Chuck as God//
I completely agree with everyone’s comments about Metatron/Curtis. He was sooo passionate. He loved god sooo much. He believed sooo strongly in mankind… He really made the interaction work in the otherworld!bar. He can be such a schmoo I’m screaming at the TV for Sam to shoot him in the kneecap and then something comes out his fat little lips that is so passionate and sincere and a tear rolls down his dumpster diving cheek. What the heck?!?
He was a really GOOD editor…
My only real “disappointment” was when Metatron asked Chuck!god why he left. His response was, “I was disappointed in you.” That is the response bad parents give when they are guilting their children as if blaming them for their own poor parenting decisions and actions.
My hope would have been firstly that Chuck!god had responded that he had never actually left them and that he had quietly been watching and guiding all along, but if not that at least he would take responsibility for his own actions rather than blame children for ‘disappointing’ him. Thanks Metatron for sticking up for us.
My really very, very favorite part was Dean screaming, “Stop this you dick!”
It’s so Dean. It’s so biblically King David. It was so parallel to the dream root episode where Dean finally lashes out at John/Dad. (For the record in case some of you don’t know, unlike those who feel John was abusive, I think John was the best dad he could be under the circumstances and loved his boys more than anything.) It was so necessary to Dean’s growth, so necessary to the adult father/adult son relationship. How great that that is what snapped Chuck!god out of his wimpy Chuck centric reverie back to god mode again. I hope but don’t necessarily expect Dean’s relationship with Chuck!god to ease up at least a little.
The amulet was a little like, “In case you missed that it was god who saved your ass, let’s just put a glowing god!detector amulet in Sam’s pocket. You’re a hard case to crack, Dean, and a little on the dim side and besides, Tumbler will go freaking nuts!”
(Sorry to be irreverent, but I was never particularly invested in the amulet beyond the fact that Sam gave it to Dean.)
I do not understand why Sam said to Dean, “You were going to choose Amara over me.” Is this Sam’s secret fear? Must be a setup for the finale’.
I do think that very well could be a secret fear that Sam has. I do however think that was brought out of him by the fog. Just a second later he says “I’m sorry I didn’t mean that.” The darkness was bringing all the worst out.