I said on Twitter earlier this week that if I see one more scene of everyone sitting around in the bunker eating leftovers …
And how did this episode open?
I wanted to shake my hands at the heavens shouting “STOP!”
So I have huge issues with the very CONCEPT of the alternate universe. I also have huge issues with Mary Winchester’s false eyelashes and heavy eyeshadow in the alternate universe.
And the sex scene early in the episode … what the HELL?? It was so “out there” stylistically – it was like I was suddenly watching a low-budget 1960s orgy-comedy. So unlike the Supernatural house style – but honestly, since their recent love affair with automatic weapons/camo/gear/SWAT-teams has taken over the show since Season 12, I welcomed the break in style. It was silly as hell – didn’t really work – it was totally juvenile (Laying Pipe??) – but honestly, I prefer “juvenile” to “self-serious machoness” so I’ll take it.
Jensen Ackles knows how to act.
In case anyone missed that memo. His almost childlike whimper when he tried to push past Castiel in the cave to go after Sam … it’s details like that that separates the men from the boys in this industry.
How do we feel about Dean agreeing to leave Sam behind? I’m conflicted. It had some good results though: it ruined the reunion with Mary, Dean being like “Hey Mom, good to see you, gotta go back and get Sam’s body.” Guy can never ever get a break. It got to me.
Pretty sure the powers-that-be heard our howling complaints in re: Sam’s blase non-reaction to being in the presence of Lucifer at the end of Season 11. Now they’re back to at least ACKNOWLEDGING Sam’s trauma of his time in the cage being abused and tortured and raped. Thank you. Although the fact that you would FORGET Sam’s history in that regard is … what’s the word … ridiculous? At any rate, Jared was wonderful at showing the pure terror at even the MENTION of Lucifer’s name.
I am beginning to understand that Samantha Smith is a limited actress and as long as she was called upon to play Mary in small flashbacks we didn’t notice. Now, though, we – or at least I – notice. She’s flat. Mary was mythical, as long as we didn’t see her all that much. And since they didn’t seem interested in piercing the myth of Mary – at least not in ways which would have been fascinating character-wise for Sam and Dean – the whole thing has come off as a non-event. I look at her face, wondering: WHAT is she FEELING? This isn’t because the character is ambiguous or ambivalent. It’s because there’s not much going on in the actress. It hurts me to say this because I dislike criticizing actors. But it’s glaringly obvious to me.
This does not excuse the Season 12 handling of Mary. There are many MANY ways to “work with” an actor’s limitations. Her flat-ness could have been used in multiple ways, to suggest – frighteningly – Mary’s ambivalence about having children, maybe? How horrible would THAT be? Mary’s clear preference of Dean, because of her guilt about Sam? I mean, they SORT of acknowledge that, but not as hard-hitting as they could. They could have recognized Smith’s limitations and made it a character-thing, rather than hoping we don’t notice she just isn’t … THERE onscreen, especially not when side by side with the two powerhouse actors playing her sons.
Anyway, these are my initial thoughts.
It was like watching two different episodes – the dick jokes versus the Trauma. Gabe and Rowena was supposed to be comic relief and I like the two characters but did we really need the cheesy voiceovers telling us their thoughts? We got it, okay, WE GOT IT.
But the second half is what I’m here for. The vamp tunnel was so claustrophobic, reminded me of the Wendigo cave. If you don’t have a huge budget, then make it scary by not showing us what’s coming. Sam being stuck in that mine shaft room where he has no choice, resurrected against his will, was just crushing. I agree with you – Jared was amazing at showing his terror in that scene. I’m still thinking about it this morning. Might be my favorite of s13 so far.
Right, the voice overs, like we don’t know what Gabriel-skip-the-apocalypse-for-porn-stars would be thinking…
A quick focus on toosh and cleavage, cue Casa Erotica soundtrack and boom, who needs voice overs.
Yup.
Laying Pipe. I mean, come on. Say no more.
Yes, the Wendigo cave, great callback!
The voiceover choice was so bizarre!
I absolutely loved the vamp tunnel too – and those flashlight beams coming through the darkness. It was also a truly stressful sequence.
my immediate thought after was just pure relief! An episode about Sam and Dean where they couldn’t have been replaced by any standard hero drama lead. It was PERSONAL! I was so, so happy it was personal! I was so happy they put Sam and Lucifer in a room together and made it mean something.
Jensen Ackles knows how to act.
The way he said “body.” !!!!! The Look he gave Lucifer just before stepping through the rift!!!
Look there are quite a few things my brain marked as wrong — the voiceover thoughts, the way that climactic vamp fight was shot (looked like it was hatched together with not quite enough footage), the way Cas saunters down the tunnel and comes back three seconds later with a sad face, Rowena talking to herself, the freaking split focus that they love all of a sudden, every word out of Cas’s mouth in the kitchen, kinda stupid to leave Lucifer alive. But things happened in the dark! Their faces in the tunnels were so lovely! Sam had a dream! (hey who knew Sam has an inner life?). The music was very good. I was enthralled by the Sam-Lucifer tete-a-tete and it’s been two years since I could say that about a whole sequence of scenes on the show.
Paula, when Cas doubled over from the angel warding I was like ooooooo is he finally gonna be revealed as Not!Cas? But no :-( So much for that theory, right? Just the standard inconsistency.
I have some mildly worried/hopeful thoughts on where the story goes from here that I’m trying not to beg tomorrow’s trouble on and will just enjoy the fact that I felt feelings again. You guys remember feelings, right?!
//hey who knew Sam has an inner life?// *heart crack* and how mundane it was, just a little pizza in the Bunker, with Jack as a part of it. Mary following him out to have a conversation with just him – that’s the one that hurts because she’s never really done that.
//standard inconsistency// man, I guess so. Cas is all over the boards this season. The saunter and sad face “it’s too late, Dean” whaaaaat?
And haha, Sam leaves the room, but Dean is still eating pizza! Sam’s feelings about Dean’s eating habits must be so strong that even in his dreams Dean would continue eating when he’s not actually present. That calls for therapy, Sam.
Ha! That and dream!Sam giving Dean a little Piglet nickname. So much therapy.
//The saunter and sad face “it’s too late, Dean” whaaaaat?//
Whaaaaaat, indeed! Do you actually know Dean Winchester? (See Not!Cass comment below.)
I went back and watched The Big Empty – which really highlights how all over the place Cas has been. It’ll be interesting to do a season re-watch this summer – I’ve had a hard time connecting the dots – but that might change the second time around.
“saunter and sad face Cas” hahahaha
Yes, it was very bizarre. And that Dean accepted it?
Guys, do another draft on the script. You have to know we’re all gonna be like WHAT?
There was something lacking in the way they constructed ticking-clock urgency here, definitely.
Talking about house style, I feel like they’ve been struggling filming the new fighting all season the choreography itself looks fun but the shots feel very unclear, too close or too remote, and the editing gets super choppy to compensate.
Welcome to my show, They’re Trying Something New And I Don’t Like It
It’s all blurring together now – and I may be thinking of Season 12 – but remember that brief period of like 3 or 4 episodes where they were quick-cutting like crazy – to make the fights more “explosive” and “exciting”? and you couldn’t even see what the hell was happening?
It was such a short-lived moment – eventually they “got back” to letting us actually see Jared and Jensen do their thing – because duh – but I agree – the fight scenes have been problematic all around.
I believe I am co-producer of your new show.
it’s all blurring together for me too! But I’m fairly sure it’s a s13 phenomenon. The clearest in my head is the hatstand v sheets of paper fight from 13.01 D-:
I’m picturing our new show as something like this.
(I AM NOT A PERVERT)
//is he finally gonna be revealed as Not!Cas?//
I, for one, an still holding out for this shoe to drop. Dare I say, season 14 big bad?!?
What’s the Not Cas theory? Sorry, I’m out of the loop! Fill me in!
The theory that the entity from the Big Empty has escaped into our world masquerading as Cass.
Aha. Got it, thank you.
I have wondered that myself – especially since I just re-watched that ep.
The entity with the Malcolm McDowell voice!
// It was PERSONAL! I was so, so happy it was personal! I was so happy they put Sam and Lucifer in a room together and made it mean something. //
I know!
And I actually teared up near the end of the episode. It’s been a LONG while for me.
And how upset Jack was at Castiel about leaving Sam – this is the kind of emotional detail I want. I think of it as putting money in the bank in a savings account. You put the money in the bank – and then you check on it later and it’s accrued interest – it’s grown. So they put the money in the bank with Jack and Sam early on – and it paid off, beautifully, in that big moment of betrayal and anger. That’s all on Alexander Calvert, too – to keep that continuity going. He did it so beautifully my heart cracked!
Also I didn’t really say anything about Mark Pellegrino’s side of that tete a tete – THIS is the Lucifer that thrills me. Not the whiny snarky dude. But this intense and focused FORCE, and he’s so INTIMATE with Sam. You could see Jared struggle to maintain his boundaries standing there with Lucifer. Very good.
YES this, the intimacy he brings to those conversations is so disturbing. That’s what I want in Lucifer. He should be pushing boundaries for his own agenda and just because he can.
// Also I didn’t really say anything about Mark Pellegrino’s side of that tete a tete – THIS is the Lucifer that thrills me. Not the whiny snarky dude. But this intense and focused FORCE, and he’s so INTIMATE with Sam. //
// YES this, the intimacy he brings to those conversations is so disturbing. That’s what I want in Lucifer. //
Cosigning the hell out of this. Forever. I’m starting to suspect that Lucifer as a character only works in relation to Sam, and this is why.
(Bluh, posted my email in the name blank. This is Eve.)
Thanks Eve – I fixed it just so the email’s not out there!
// I’m starting to suspect that Lucifer as a character only works in relation to Sam, and this is why. //
Interesting.
I think this is spot on.
It’s a very activated relationship – shared history and trauma – that whole Season 7 arc with Lucifer in his head, putting Sam eventually into a mental hospital?
this is INTENSE stuff.
Squandering that at the end of S11 was such a disconnect – and now that it’s “back” I’m like: Oh, yes, this works, this is what has been missing.
and yes – Jeez Louise – Sam has an inner life! Dreams! A private moment with Mom! It’s tragic, when you think that’s what he was dreaming about. His mother wanting to talk to him, just him, not him and Dean. But even in the dream you could see how she prioritized Dean. Poor Sam.
The thing that got me in the tunnel was how quickly Sam was killed. Boom. Neck torn out. Dunzo. It was swift and horrifying. When Sam got shot in S11 – he went down in slo-mo – which was also its own kind of horrifying – but this was brutal.
// the way Cas saunters down the tunnel and comes back three seconds later with a sad face, //
hahaha. Right?
That speech from Castiel in the kitchen was…yeah, no. From the Watsonian perspective: “We” let Lucifer out? Really? You know I love you, Cas, but that was all you. (From my Doylist perspective, obviously, it’s more like: Oh Cas, it’s not your fault the writers don’t remember show canon or characterisation further back than two years. I know, Ben Edlund would never have made you say that….there there, we’ll always have seasons 4 and 5.)
Also, and unrelated: I’m starting to think I would actually be a pretty useful addition to any group with a bad guy they need an eye kept on, because I am really good at tuning people out and not responding to obvious attempts to rile me up. Call me, Sam and Dean!
Also also: Jared Padalecki was amazing. I had forgotten just how good he is when he has something to work with. I agree completely with the commenters who said that his reactions make Lucifer frightening again.
Finally, Dean going near-silent after Sam’s death made me think of how, early in season 1 (Dead in the Water, I think), we learn that child-Dean was mute for a while after the fire. Now that’s the kind of call-back I appreciate.
I was hoping they would fight a Balrog when they went into the Mines of Moria, or at least a cave troll…
My thoughts about the Gabriel/Rowena thing are similar to Sheila’s and Paula’s, but I also thought that it was good SOMEONE was getting it on in the bunker. It’s a terrible thing that Dean’s only release seems to be alcohol – which he now drinks from both a flask and a decanter.
And Dean would not have left the tunnel without seeing Sam’s body. I just couldn’t believe that he would simply take Cas’ word for it.
//the Mines of Moria// lol
Yes, thank goodness Jensen and Jared finally got to do some acting; and, as usual, they knocked my socks off!
// how do we feel about Dean agreeing to leave Sam behind? I’m conflicted. It had some good results though: it ruined the reunion with Mary//
Dean broke my heart, but agreed, he would not have left that cave just because Cass said, “we don’t have time.” I’m thinking of Sam’s supposed death in Red Meat – compare! But what Jense/Dean said with his face and no words upon being asked “Where’s Sam?” – heart ripped and bleeding in the dirt!
Sam’s Lucifer trauma was also palpable as you have all pointed out, again, all written on Jared/Sam’s face with few words! It was so painful, but satisfying to have that acknowledged.
// But what Jense/Dean said with his face and no words upon being asked “Where’s Sam?” – heart ripped and bleeding in the dirt! //
I literally gasped, watching.
He’s just unbelievable.
//I was hoping they would fight a Balrog when they went into the Mines of Moria, or at least a cave troll…//
Look at your geography, writers! The hills of Kentucky are daunting in a Deliverance sort of way, but the obvious barrier is the Ohio River! You don’t just wade across that baby at a low spot! I imagined in my head it was a chunnel-like structure under the river. It does mildly spoil the dramatic tension when the alternative route is so non-threatening. Think about those mountains in middle earth – that would drive you underground, but it should actually feel like they had no other alternative but to brave the vamp tunnel.
// You don’t just wade across that baby at a low spot! //
I’m picturing Sean Bean speaking those words.
Lol to all of this
Mutecypher, The image in my head is more one of Aragorn going into the caves to call out the undead army, but the parallel of needing to get across the mountains is a better situational analogy. No doubt there are plenty of lotr nerds on the writing team!
I suspect there are all sorts of nerds on the writing team… Maybe too many Call of Duty ones.
When I watched the Unfinished Business episode, and Sam and Dean asked Gabriel what the deal was with the Norse gods/demigods/monsters – Gabriel’s answer about them being a whole separate thing from God/Angels – was probably a nod to the Marvel-verse. And also to American Gods. But it also made me think of an episode of Charmed, shot the season after Buffy moved to UPN, where the Charmed team confronted vampires for the first time. One of the witches asked why they had never encountered vampires before and one of the boyfriends commented that they were a whole different network (of evil creatures).
// And Dean would not have left the tunnel without seeing Sam’s body. I just couldn’t believe that he would simply take Cas’ word for it. //
I know! I get it, you’ve got a time crunch, but when has this ever stopped you?
Dean would go in there slashing and chopping no matter if there were 30 vamps. It might have been good for them to go through one more draft of the script – because it felt sloppy.
//it should actually feel like they had no other alternative but to brave the vamp tunnel// Melanie
//you’ve got a time crunch// Sheila
I was a bit confused by the need to use the tunnel in the first place. I thought the point of having Lucifer on tap was that a longer period of time could be spent in the AU. Obviously they wouldn’t take a detour to Harlan KY and see if AU Raylan Givens could help them (I do like that idea). But they didn’t need to be stupid with the time/safety trade-offs.
Sheila –
I’m glad you made your comment about Samantha Smith. When Mary was brought back, I took her blunted affect as shock and trauma. And when she was boning Ketch without any investment, I tried to take that as a mixture of self-loathing for not wanting to be with her boys, and the desire for the creation of loathing by being with someone so petty, hateful, and ridiculous. But she was just going through the motions. Which is a line from the Buffy musical episode. I think I was placing Buffy’s season 6 arc on her – trauma from being snatched out of heaven and back into the cold, cold world. But the emotions just aren’t registering. I kept telling myself that if I watched with fresh eyes I would see what SS is doing, rather than what I was longing for. Now I am thinking that maybe it’s not me.
Yeah, I just don’t think she’s got it in her.
Which wouldn’t necessarily be a problem if they made it a character thing.
It could be fascinating – like I said elsewhere I think to Melanie – if the image these adult men had of their mother turned out being nothing like the real thing. Which would open up all kinds of interesting questions about what happened to Mary when she married John? What was the marriage really like? How did she move forward with her entire family DEAD so that she could marry John? Memory wiped, it doesn’t matter, her family is still dead. Would that have changed her?
There are many ways to deal with the situation … possible avenues that would have made Samantha Smith’s performance seem perfect, as opposed to lacking something.
It’s too bad.
Mary is such a rich symbol. They’ve squandered so much of it.
I feel that Boys are in charge over there. Boys who think what they’re showing is a liberated woman who doesn’t “define” herself as a mother, but instead OMG has sex and OMG is a BADASS. But that’s a complete reduction of the character and a destruction of all of her rich symbolism. It’s like they didn’t want to deal – or didn’t know how to deal – with the implications of everything they set up in all the years prior.
They put so much $$ in the bank and then didn’t let it pay off – it remains baffling to me.
In ref Sam Smith: They got the wrong Mary! As much as I have always objected to the sainted Mary Winchester (picture the white-nightgowned girl singing sweetly in the high school musical), if they had to bring her back why would they not bring back Amy Gumenick, young Mary Campbell. She is supposed to be 28-29 year old Mary back from heaven. And Amy portrayed a Mary with the spunk to be believable as the monster fighting daughter of the Mayflower-vamp-head-hacking Campbell clan, but who now just wants to run away with sweet, trauma/ptsd ridden John Winchester. She was probably busy filming Arrow or something else. Pretty sure Sam Smith was a second choice of should have been.
*or
Sam Smith is in her late 40s. Amy Gumenick is in her early 30s. Hello!!! It would have created a so much more interesting dynamic to have an actress who actually seems younger that her grown sons. Amy really brought the character of Mary W. alive for me. The primary episode featuring Sam S. as Mary was Dean’s slightly one dimensional djinn-dream version of his mom. Sam S. was perfect for that, but not apparently because she was acting. (Yow! That hurts even typing it!)
It would have been SO INTERESTING to have Mary come back as a PEER! You’re so right.
But alas, here I go, drifting off into my OWN “alternate universe” where they handled Mary better.
// As much as I have always objected to the sainted Mary Winchester (picture the white-nightgowned girl singing sweetly in the high school musical), //
You’ve mentioned this before. Respectfully, I don’t get the objection. ? It’s the family mythology. It’s the engine on which the entire show has run. Or at least the engine which launched the show.
In a way, bringing her back was such an opportunity to DEAL with the fact they’ve mythologized her – and understandably so – Dean was 4 when she was killed, Sam doesn’t remember her – what else are they gonna do? Have a nuanced complex and ambiguous image of their mother in their heads? No. But bringing her back could show that she wasn’t perfect, never was perfect – and they KIND of dealt with it for like 2 episodes and then just dropped it. They just never dealt with it.
Ironically – Samantha Smith’s flat-ness could be a huge ASSET if they had dealt with this story in a more intuitive responsive way. The mother in the white nightgown is actually kind of … cold, and maybe too wrapped up in guilt to deal with her adult sons as adults … Again, it was sort of there in the language early on in Season 12 – but then we all know what happened with Season 12.
//It’s the family mythology. It’s the engine on which the entire show has run. Or at least the engine which launched the show.//
You are absolutely right! My objection is not to the character’s attitudes about Mary, however messed up and dysfunctional they may be, because that is the heart that makes it all so good. Sometimes I have wanted to shake Sam &/or Dean and say, “Dude, step back and look at what is going on here.” Ultimately they can’t do that (belljar) and I’m glad because I don’t really want to see Winchester brothers behaving maturely and in a wholesome, healthy way.
My venom for Mary W. comes from the fandom tendency to completely sanctify Mary while totally vilifying John – no middle ground. That image is magnified in the girl’s play. I have always seen them as 2 flawed people making flawed choices born of trauma that led their 2 sons into this extraordinary life.
I agree that bringing her back has been an opportunity to rebalance those scales. I also agree that that opportunity has been somewhat wasted possibly due to Sam S’s inability to match acting skill with J & J at the required depth to carry it off.
I would also not be entirely honest if I didn’t admit to a huge bias toward John, not as a perfect man, husband, father, but as a great character warts and all! I want to know more about John. JDM as an actor makes me want more. Mary – not so much. Amy G’s Mary got some very good backstory and I can still see her twirling the blade, fighting the angels, and talking to the kid who made a demon deal. That’s a Mary I might be able to care about.
Melanie –
// My venom for Mary W. comes from the fandom tendency to completely sanctify Mary while totally vilifying John – no middle ground. That image is magnified in the girl’s play. I have always seen them as 2 flawed people making flawed choices born of trauma that led their 2 sons into this extraordinary life. //
Thank you so much for explaining this – if you did it before, I’m sorry, I either missed it or didn’t get it.
I totally understand now – and I really like where you’re coming from, in terms of the ambiguity and the flaws – which, yes, makes John and Mary so much more interesting!!
// I don’t really want to see Winchester brothers behaving maturely and in a wholesome, healthy way. //
hahahaha legit LOL
// I would also not be entirely honest if I didn’t admit to a huge bias toward John, not as a perfect man, husband, father, but as a great character warts and all! //
I am with you on this. Great character – AND – most importantly – he brought out great things in the Sam and Dean. He was something to fight against, to compete for, to rebel against, whatever – to fight ABOUT. Sam and Dean – except for the grief counsellor scene – haven’t fought ABOUT Mom. Like … why the hell do they think we’ve been watching all these years?
anyway – thanks, Melanie – I totally hear what you’re saying!
Melanie and Sheila, yes, this is what is so mystifying about the whole Mary situation. Who could blame you for being more interested in John? He was in like seven episodes and he is huge and complex, as a character and in the fabric of the show. They’ve had Mary for two seasons now and BORING! how is that possible? Mind boggling. And it was so interesting that since John has receded to the bg of the show in terms of S&D Issues (since S5) this whole chapter of the show could have opened around their mother. But nothing. I feel helpless in the face of how bizarre this is. I mean, why would Mary even care that Sam was dead? Specifically? No idea.
(I would love if a rupture opened up between Dean and Mary over her non-feeling over Sam’s death. How interesting would that be?!)
//So I have huge issues with the very CONCEPT of the alternate universe. //
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
?
I don’t like the AU. I’m not into the concept at all.
Exactly! I was emphatically agreeing!
Oh! Very emphatic! I got ya!!
I prefer picturing Sam and Dean trolling the highways and byways of our world – not off in some other world.
I realize this makes no sense since both of them spent time in Hell and Dean spent time in Purgatory … but you know what I’m saying.
I went off on this very idea at the tail end of the comment string a couple of weeks ago. Ultimately I blame ‘French Mistake. As much as I enjoyed that ep it forever removed the Winchesters from our world, declaring there was no magic and no supernatural in our world. Way to suck the fun out, guys!
//I’m still thinking about it this morning. Might be my favorite of s13 so far.//
It’s like old times where we can’t wait to share our thoughts on the latest episode!
So true.
yes!!!!
The second half of that episode was absolutely amazing. Jensen and Jared both absolutely blew me away. From the time the group left the cave until Dean told Mary that they had to go back and get Sam’s body….I’m pretty sure Dean didn’t “speak” a word, but you could literally see the light, hope, inner spark…whatever word you want to use to describe it…you could see it die inside him.
Agree with everyone on the Sam and Lucifer scene. It was intense, painful, and Jared was utterly incredible in showing Sam’s pain, trauma, terror, and also his incredible strength. One of the moments that broke my heart the most was the look of shame that flashed across his face at the end as he was standing there at the camp. He chose to live and he was guilty about it.
I don’t think Dean would have left the cave without 100% seeing Sam for himself. I’ve tried to ration it. Sam’s throat was basically ripped out. There was no way that they could have saved him. They had a mission and they were on a time crunch…even with (as far as they knew) Lucifer back at the bunker dripping grace..I’m sure they had to be worried about it running out. So yes, I’ve rationalized all those reasons and more and I still can’t see Dean doing that.
That brings me to Cas. First of all, what the heck was that speech in the kitchen?? WE let Lucifer out of his cage?? Excuse me? WHO was the one who said YES to him? Sam didn’t. Sam wasn’t going to. Sam and Dean also quite valiantly made the effort to get Lucifer back in his cage and would have if Crowley hadn’t thwarted it. Not going to lie….that speech ticked me off. Then as Jessie so wonderfully put it above //the way Cas saunters down the tunnel and comes back three seconds later with a sad face// also ticked me off. I think all of that made it harder for me to swallow that Dean would leave Sam just on his “Dean, we don’t have time.
// I’m pretty sure Dean didn’t “speak” a word, but you could literally see the light, hope, inner spark…whatever word you want to use to describe it…you could see it die inside him. //
I know! It was amazing. And when the young woman said she was sorry about his “friend” – and he didn’t even respond? So perfect. It would not surprise me if he did have a line like “He’s not my friend, he’s my brother” – and Jensen cut it. Either way, it was a great choice to have him not respond.
// One of the moments that broke my heart the most was the look of shame that flashed across his face at the end as he was standing there at the camp. He chose to live and he was guilty about it. //
Really good observation. Terrible. I wanted to tell him it was okay.
But it’s like he’s been “stained” forever by this association with Lucifer – and finally they’re DEALING with it and SHOWING it.
// So yes, I’ve rationalized all those reasons and more and I still can’t see Dean doing that. //
hahaha I know, I went through the same rationalization process but it still doesn’t add up!
*waves my hand over all this* 100% on everything you said about the kitchen speech and the vamp cave reaction.
And yes to Sheila on Jack’s reaction. Money in the bank, what a great way to think about how character relationships should be built and the investment that should go into them over time.
the look of shame that flashed across his face at the end as he was standing there at the camp. He chose to live and he was guilty about it.
I LOVED THIS! Complexity! Feeling!
And when the young woman said she was sorry about his “friend” – and he didn’t even respond?
Yes, SO GREAT, and she was so chilled by the look on his face that she just sank away. I’m in heaven. Also: a SUBJECTIVE, MOTIVATED flashback. They have abused flashbacks so egregiously for the last two years but this one was about character feeling instead of telling the audience things they didn’t know.
Also, another Bogart-Lorre-Huston movie? Real missed opportunity by Berens here:
SAM: Dean, we must beware of these vampires. They’re desperate characters.
DEAN: What makes you say that?
SAM: Not one of them has looked at my legs.
hahahaha! You know I thought the same thing the second I saw the damn title in some preview promo. They definitely should have Capote-d up the dialogue.
Maybe they thought they did! ?
In case they’re looking for more ideas, my copy of Beat The Devil shares a DVD with, randomly, The General, Passport to Pimlico, Spooks Run Wild, and At War With The Army. So have at it Dabb&Co, you couldn’t be any more scattered than you already are. I dares ya.
(For real though, isn’t it about time they tried a silent?!)
I also wanna say that Jared’s dead face is AMAZING and he went from superdead to alive without a cut, with Sgriccia in so close you could have seen his pupils dilate, and it was perfect.
Loved the spinning fan in that scene too, and its uncomfortable metallic creaks, and the cobwebs, and the way he was lit by his own torch. Great stuff.
That whole small scene – the moment when he was shot from above – was very upsetting and beautifully done.
First off, love your site. Absolutely love it.
Second, they need a new show runner. It’s really as simple as that. This is the second season where they have not been able to land on a single, consistent, driving arc to push the show from beginning to end. There have been other seasons that have been weak (I’m looking at you, Season 7) or had an ending that didn’t really pay off (hi there, Season 11), but none of them have been as uneven and in places just flat out *bad* as Dabb’s time at the helm. It’s absolutely maddening. They’re rewriting canon to make their twelve different plots work, attempting to force the characters into the plot rather than writing the plot around the characters, and every single role is suffering as a result (Dean saying in 13×20 that he and Dad learned the hard way that revenge isn’t the answer when Dean has been anti-revenge from Season 1 had me screaming at my TV). Throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks is no way to run a show that has so much depth, history, and possibility even after all this time. I could think of any number of ways they could have made this season coherent with just one or two tweaks, but they seem more interested in throwing out red herrings that lead nowhere and trying to launch a spin-off than they are in writing a good story.
The missed opportunities they’ve had this season to put together a strong through-line boggles the mind, from the possibility of Empty!Cas (what a fantastic concept to FINALLY make Cas’ return have some kind of purpose); to the Shedim (really??? We’re REALLY just going to let that drop completely???); to Jack being an amoral sociopath (he admitted he couldn’t really “feel” anything but wanted to do the right thing) who might not necessarily turn out to be Lucifer, Jr. but could easily succumb to hubris and end up “breaking bad” as a result; to how utterly boring and nonthreatening the AU is; to every single thing they’ve done – or not done – with Mary; to powering up Rowena just to power her back down the very next time she appears; to the whole “don’t go poking at the AUs because they’re like a house of cards” warning from Billie that clearly means nothing, as they’ve been poking at AUs all season and nothing really bad has happened yet; to introducing Sister Jo for no other reason apparently than they wanted Jensen’s wife to be on the show. All of this adds up to the season overall being one big stall tactic and time suck. That’s. Bad. Writing.
On the subject of Mary, I’m totally with you that the whole “Mary problem” can be put down to Sam Smith’s weakness as an actress and the writers’ inability to recognize her weakness and write to the few strengths she has. I’ve done a lot of stage acting and know quite a few actors who are very limited in their range. You keep them in that range and they will knock it out of the park. You cast them outside their range thinking, “Oh, this will be a good exercise in getting them to stretch” and they will flop every time. Sam Smith is *very* weak, and they tried to write outside her limited range rather than accepting what they had to work with and WORKING WITH IT. I’m on my third re-watch of the series and once you’ve seen her in the recent seasons you can see how little presence she has early on, how limited her emotional depth is, and how the only reason she succeeds is because she’s not really a person but a “legend” to the boys. I think a big part of the issue with bringing her back was the idea that they had to make her into a “strong, independent woman tm,” and they think in our modern times that can only mean she says RIDICULOUS things like, “I’m not just a mom” as justification for working with the people that tortured one of her sons and a way to assert her “woman-ness.” As a mom whose daughter was 4 when I started watching this show (a big part of why I feel so strongly for Dean and his story – I know how many hugs my daughter needed at that age, and Dean missed out on so many hugs that he *needed*), that line was personally offensive to me, and I don’t take offense easily. It implies that you somehow have to fight to maintain your person-hood once you birth another person, but if you truly know yourself and are a strong person to begin with, there is no danger you will lose yourself, even if it feels for a while like all you do is say, “No,” and “Stop jumping on the couch,” and, “Did you finish your homework,” and “How many times do I have to tell you to look both ways before crossing the street, do you want to DIE?” It also implies that if a woman has children and completely devotes her life to her children at the sake of her own needs and identity for a period of time it somehow means she isn’t “strong enough” to maintain her own person-hood, irrespective of whether or not she’s someone who has *always* wanted children and genuinely *lives* for her kids (I know several women like this; it is not some construct of “the patriarchy,” it is something that fulfills them). The idea that the only way you can have any kind of identity once you become a mother is to abandon your children completely if they dare to hint that they might need something emotionally from you like, I don’t know, sticking around long enough to have a conversation? God forbid trying to learn what their childhood was like so you can understand who they are as adults since you missed *everything*? It’s limiting, sexist, archaic, and I hope whoever wrote “I’m not just a mom” got smacked upside the head by their mother for such cliche, unimaginative dreck. Honestly, who would have predicted that Rowena would turn out to be a a more loving mom by the end of this season than Mary???
It feels very much like they wanted to deconstruct the Mary Myth, but were afraid of the howling that would ensue from the peanut gallery if they dared to write Mary as either a) someone who was fully devoted to motherhood after she gave up the hunting lifestyle and was struggling at how to mother two grown men that are not used to a woman’s presence, let alone being mothered, or b) someone who probably never should have had children because she really wasn’t any good at being a mother to begin with. Instead they tried to go for something in between those extremes without having the benefit of an actor who can *play* it, or writers who can *write* it. I’m certain if they had picked one of those extremes Sam Smith could have carried it off relatively well, as those are very limited in terms of what they would require her to portray. Instead they tried to make her complicated and layered, shoehorning in the idea that she was so wracked with guilt about the deal she’s made with Azazel she couldn’t face her sons despite never doing anything to show that until the final speech Dean gave her, when suddenly she went from, “I miss my little boys in heaven” to “I’m afraid Sam will never be able to look at me” as the basis of her character. Obviously the only reason they even tried pulling off that last-minute character re-write is because Jensen Ackles could make audiences weep reading the phone book, and he could buy into that line of thinking and sell it even if she couldn’t. The idea that Mary really wasn’t any good at being a mother, and only ended up becoming one because Sam and Dean were destined to be born so she didn’t have a real choice in the matter would have been fascinating to unpack, but the writers just wanted to put it down to, “Well, she was in heaven and everything was perfect and now she’s in shock.” She made absolutely no attempt to bond with her sons, and then after spending all of last year making it crystal clear that she has no relationship with Sam and Dean beyond playing Words with Friends (and doesn’t really want one) they make the main thrust of this season be the frantic efforts to get Mom back from camo-world, with forays into Kentucky Fried Prince of Hell and bringing back every side character they can think of. Honest to god, it’s like they’re trying to make Jared and Jensen say, “Okay, we’re done” so they don’t have to cancel the show and endure the wrath of the fans. But back to this episode.
While I agree with you for the most part and in general nod vigorously in agreement with your analyses, there are two specific points on which my opinion differs.
1) I actually enjoyed the Rowena and Gabriel fling, even though the narration was over the top, the dick jokes were too obvious and went on too long, and it gave the episode an overall uneven feel in tone, simply because at least someone in the bunker is getting laid. At least someone is looking at the task before them and carpe-ing diem. I miss that so much. Hell, at least last season Dean got to ride a mechanical bull. Coming home from a strip club with his tie around his forehead pales in comparison to that, which is the only real action Dean has gotten this season and was clearly a show he was putting on for Sam’s benefit so it didn’t even count as actual fun. And Sam? Dear lord, poor Sam. His pipes must be so backed up by this point I don’t know how he can walk. Given how infrequently he’s come in contact with anyone female and how we know he doesn’t appreciate porn the way Dean does he has got to have some actual physical problems by now. I realize they’re both hugely traumatized at this stage of the game, but they really have basically become monks, and neither of them are naturally inclined to be monks. That is an absolute tragedy for men who are in their prime and *beautiful*. I’m just a couple of years older than them. Despite what the CW may typically depict, I’m *young*. I can’t imagine having to live without any kind of physical comfort like they do. It’s flat out depressing to see such unearthly gorgeous creatures spiraling down farther and farther without any *comfort* from anyone and no end to it in sight. While the hook up between Gabriel and Rowena was out of place, at least there was some genuine levity (or an attempt at genuine levity) in this episode, and at least someone was having fun, which was necessary given that Sam was about to get his throat ripped out. Like they realized that they’d spent a tremendous amount of time these last two seasons on doom and gloom and maybe they should throw the audience a bone. The problem being of course that they’ve spent the last two seasons on doom and gloom and don’t seem to remember how to construct the lighter elements well – they haven’t done it in such a long time.
2) I didn’t think it was out of character that Dean didn’t try to get to Sam when Cas came back from the tunnel suck all the energy out of the scene whilst declaring “He’s gone.” The vampire tore out the entire side of Sam’s neck and based on the bite when they showed his dead body (which was an amazing piece of acting from Jared) the vamp got both his carotid and his jugular. He would have bled out from an injury like that in a minute or less (yes, I googled it, I was curious if Sam would have had minutes or seconds). Side note: no wonder the vamps are starving to death if they’re bleeding out their victims before they get to eat. End of side note. Dean couldn’t possibly have saved him, and the teenage girl was still there needing to be protected and taken to the camp. This felt very much like “Red Meat” on steroids. Dean had to leave “dead” Sam then too, and while yeah, the argument could be made that what happened in “Red Meat” should make Dean less likely to leave Sam just in case he wasn’t really dead, arterial spray like that = time to pick out a headstone. When Sam staggered into the camp at the end his clothes were drenched in blood. It wasn’t like coming back and not seeing how Sam “died,” Dean had a front row seat for the carnage. Which isn’t to say it was particularly well executed (did I mention Cas sucked the energy out of every scene he was in? Because he sucked the energy right out of that scene, and I swear if it doesn’t turn out that he’s Empty!Cas at some point I’m going to write someone a Strongly Worded Letter), but it didn’t bother me or seem out of character. Dean shut down pretty quickly when Cas came back to suck the energy out of the scene. That Jensen was able to show us Dean dying inside while Cas was sucking the energy out of the scene speaks to his tremendous reserves of talent. He didn’t have enough fight left to look for Sam’s dead body at that point; he was just as dead by then. And given how large Sam is, it would have taken Dean, Cas, and Gabriel combined to get him to the camp as dead weight, which would have left them completely vulnerable to any attacker. Dean may not care about his own life, but he isn’t going to sacrifice a teenage girl, Gabriel, and Cas.
Speaking of Cas – he sucked the energy right out of every scene he was in. Just in case I wasn’t clear on my feelings about that.
Anyway, just my thoughts in response to your site (which I genuinely love – how could I not when you gush about the beauty of Cary Grant and Elvis?).
Thank you so much for this comment! I haven’t been able to make myself watch the last few episodes, and you nailed why. This show runner, these writers. Just, no. I’m too old for this sh*t. I couldn’t have listed all the reasons as well as you did even if I tried.
(btw, what is your opinion of Cas’ scenes? You weren’t all that clear :DDD)
I agree with you 1000%. Well done and well written. Much as i love this show, i think season 12 was the beginning of the end and everyone knows it. I think Dabb is too inexperienced to really run the show and they brought Singer in to help him. But Dabb isn’t Kripke, and he is learning on the job. Thank God for J2 because they make some of the missteps tolerable because i literally can’t watch the show if they aren’t involved. In my very humble opinion, Season 14 should be the last season, the ladt episode should be written by Kripke, directed by Singer or Ackles, with only 2 characters, Sam and Dean Winchester. Close it like it started.
// I think Dabb is too inexperienced to really run the show and they brought Singer in to help him. //
Is this how it went down?
Singer has always been around as executive producer. I’ve seen some fans posit that he must have additional influence now because his wife and her partner are writing more crucial episodes in the last two years. I wouldn’t doubt that he does have influence given Dabb isn’t the strongest showrunner but he’s always been there.
Meredith – Hello!! What a comment! I really appreciate your big-picture view – because I admit I’ve gotten kind of caught up on the ground-level (which is why I keep getting confused – I cant keep the story lines straight in my head – and I am, in general, a smart person with a memory like a steel trap. It’s been so weird).
I agree with all you say – in particular about wanting to make Mary a “strong woman TM” – and how reductive that has been – how damaging. As a film critic, I am seeing this more and more now and it drives me crazy – it comes from men AND women – and it’s archaic, patriarchal, and … STUPID. If a woman is only “strong” then she’s a monster. Sorry. She’s not a real human being. If a woman is always right – well, then where is the dramatic tension? Do women never have to grow, then? How patriarchal is THAT attitude? If women aren’t allowed to be flawed then we are more screwed up than I thought. I wrote about this a little bit in a comments thread a while back about AU Charlie – how now she’s a “badass” – and I guess we’re supposed to think that’s cool – when what was GREAT about Charlie was that she was so smart, that she was so emotional, that she wasn’t just some Ninja with a laptop. I have felt the waves of this sort of thing coming – at least in film critic land – for some time – and this past year has not helped matters. I said at one film critic gathering, ‘I don’t care about strong female characters. What matters to me is three-dimensional female characters” and it was as though I had said, “Let’s keep women barefoot and pregnant.” A consensus is building and gathering and it’s happening on a lot of fronts – my acting teacher friends have mentioned their issues with younger actresses not being willing to play “weak” (because to these younger actresses – anyone less confident than a superhero is “weak”) – and so if you see Blanche Dubois as “weak” – or pathetic – then you will not be able to play her. You won’t be able to play any of the great roles in theatre. It’s disheartening all around. It’s also heartless in a way: because it views vulnerability as weak.
And I think, yes, that’s EXACTLY what Dabb et. al. did with Mary – assuming that women out there would eat it up, screaming YOU GO GIRL.
For what, exactly? Not dealing with her two adult traumatized sons? At all?
Why even bring her BACK if you are not going to explore the relationship?
I completely agree with your assessment of her acting – and also how it would have been fine if they had worked within her limits – not just fine, it would have been fascinating. It was weird – it took me a while to even come to this assessment, mainly because I’ve been so unhappy at their handling of Mary that I didn’t even want to see her onscreen anymore.
//If a woman is only “strong” then she’s a monster. Sorry. She’s not a real human being.//
So much this. Insisting that a woman can’t be “strong” if she shows vulnerability, or compassion, or love is so incredibly damaging to women and society overall, and the last two seasons of SPN illustrate it perfectly. I will tell you one way they could have saved both of these seasons just through Mary’s character, since it’s the way they *set her up* at the beginning of last season before deciding, “No, that’s not interesting” and taking a hard left away from it, and then doubling back mid-way through the season and then again at the end of it.
Make Mary someone who was so happy to give up hunting once she got married that she spent the first part of her arc in season 12 trying to be “World’s Best Mom” and convince her sons to stop hunting. To let someone else fix things. To walk away from the life, because they’re still young, and they can still find some kind of normal, and for the love of god that is NOT what she wanted for them, and she wants them to find wives and have children and it tears her apart that her little boys have had to go through everything they’ve gone through because of her mistakes. This is, after all, what her heaven was. Her heaven was not spent hunting monsters. Her heaven was being a mother to her two little boys, cutting the crusts off Dean’s sandwiches, and making pies *for eternity.* After growing up in a family of hunters, that isn’t weak. That is tremendously strong. Being able to break away from a life in which you were raised, where yes, your father tried to shield you from as much as he could but also scoffed at the idea that you would fall in love with and marry a “civilian”? That takes guts. Ignoring signs that might indicate something evil is out there because no, you have two little boys at home who *need* you, and you will do whatever it takes to keep them out of the life even if it leaves you feeling morally compromised and like a coward because you know you’re letting people die? There’s nothing weak about that. Dean is *constantly* trying to talk people out of hunting because he knows how it destroys you, so there is precedent for this. Of course, he’s getting crap about that as recently as this season from the same people who would have howled at Mary “just being a mom” for discouraging a teenager who gets excellent grades and clearly is on her way to a full scholarship from throwing everything away to pursue a lifestyle that *just* got her grandmother killed, but it’s still a valid way of looking at hunting.
If they’d set up last season this way, there would have been so much natural tension available to them the season might have had a shot at making sense, even with the competing BMoL and baby Lucifer plots. Have Mary spend several episodes in the bunker just trying to be their mother and learn about what their life was like without her, and run face first into the great wall of “Winchesters don’t talk about feelings.” You could have had some fantastic natural comedy with her calling while they’re in the middle of a hunt to ask what they want for dinner and Sam is irritated that they don’t have time because they’re in the middle of trying not to get eaten by a werewolf while Dean wants to make sure she has everything she needs to make pie. Have Sam and Dean uncomfortable with a woman in the bunker, even if she is their mother, who wants to clean and cook and do the laundry. Sam would be confused by it, and Dean would appreciate it while at the same time feeling like, “What am I supposed to do with myself now that I have nothing to stress-clean???” Have Sam and Dean (especially Sam, who never had a mother) chafe against the idea of Mary suddenly reappearing and increasingly trying to treat them like little kids, attempting to talk them out of hunts, nagging them about it being dangerous and certainly there must be other people who can deal with these things (enter the BMoL), and just generally not understanding why tracking down Lucifer is so incredibly personal to Sam, who she really doesn’t know at all. Give Sam the “you’ve been gone our whole lives” speech relatively early on in the season, coupled with pieces of Dean’s “do you know what your deal with Azazel led to” speech, and have THAT be what drives Mom out of the bunker. As cathartic as it was to hear Dean voice how their lives were changed, he would have stuffed that down the rest of his life if it meant having his mother in his life. It would break the whole, “Sam is just sweet and gentle and caring and so empathetic” cycle they’ve been stuck in that has made him not only bland but stifled his character growth since Dabb took over. It would also be very *real.* After all, Sam is more like John, and he’s *never* had Mom so he has no ability to understand how a mom is supposed to behave or what he missed. There’s a difference, after all, between someone who has never been able to have chocolate and therefore may lament that they’ll never be able to have it and someone who loves chocolate and can no longer eat it because they have developed a deadly allergy, but can still taste it when they close their eyes. Both are tragedies, but they are not the same tragedy.
Mary then decides the only way to give her sons the life that she wants them to have and to get them to stop hunting is to work with the BMoL to get rid of all the monsters in North America. Have Dean actively be trying to find Mom while Sam is obsessed with tracking down Lucifer/finding the Nephilim and growing increasingly frustrated that the Nephilim doesn’t have Dean’s full attention. Bam – instant conflict, as the boys feel very different ways about their mother. Dean just wants all those hugs he needed as a child, whereas Sam can’t understand why it matters when she’s the one that screwed up their lives to begin with and just can’t relate.
Very little of the season has to change. Mary could have still accompanied them on the ghost hunt with the creepy doll after she originally left but could have hated every second of it, leading them to the “you don’t have the right to tell us what to do” fight I postulated above; Mary gets dropped from the wake for Asa Fox (because she WOULD NOT HAVE STILL BEEN A HUNTER AFTER BECOMING A MOTHER – that was so unbelievable to me based on everything we knew about her) but that doesn’t really matter because Jody was still there and could have been the one being possessed by the demon; they could still work together on “Stuck in the Middle with You,” where Mary could have claimed to be getting back into the life because what else does she have if she’s not wanted as a mother by the boys (leading to some awesome Winchester angst and big conflict between the brothers as Dean blames Sam for Mom feeling that way); she could still have hooked up with Ketch not because “I’m a vibrant woman who has needs and that didn’t stop just because I have children” but because she feels like utter shit being back hunting and doesn’t think she has a choice so she needs to find something to dull that pain and Ketch is willing; Dean could still have felt hugely betrayed upon discovering she was working with the BMoL, but that could have happened later in the season, which would have have eased some of the tension between him and Sam (“You were right, we don’t need her”) and made him confronting her when she was brainwashed TRULY moving; we could have avoided the absurdity with them being locked up by the Secret Service entirely; and this season the obsession with getting her back from the AU, especially on Sam’s side of the equation, would have made a whole lot more sense and would have raised the stakes through the roof. After all, Sam would have spent all of season 12 being a dick to her, at odds with his brother, not seeing what the big deal was in having her in their life when they’ve done “just fine without her,” and the season 12 finale could have had actual punch (pardon the pun) for him when she went all mama bear and brass-knuckled Lucifer into the AU. It could have been an awakening for him that – oh. His Mom will literally go fisticuffs with Lucifer (who happens to be Sam’s biggest abuser) to protect him and Dean. Maybe there *is* a point to having a mother after all.
And we would have seen character growth from Dean being more willing to show open vulnerability and let some of his mask slip in admitting that he not only wanted his mother around, he *needed* her (which is what Amara sensed). While he’s been better in showing how soft he really is (up until last season), having his mom around really could have led to some opening up for him on the many ways he has suffered, separately and differently from Sam, with someone who would make him feel entirely safe to be vulnerable. Not that I’d want to have seen him weeping all over the place, but if anyone has earned the right to infrequently sob into a carton of Haagen Dazs while getting a hug from his mother, just to let out some of the stress, it’s Dean. And then the betrayal of her working with the BMoL would have been crushing, because he had opened up to her so much, and she was just throwing it right back in his face and proving that he is wrong to every let anyone in, and his conflict with Mom becomes a logical consequence of her actions, not some long-deep-seated anger he’s been harboring but has never voiced.
And we would have gotten character growth from Sam in seeing him push back against the idea of someone else trying to define his life for him and shove him down a path that THEY feel he should have (i.e. a normal life) when he’s finally accepted that being a Winchester means a violent, traumatic, and probably short existence. It’s taken Sam so long to make peace with the way his life is, and that he isn’t going to have the white picket fence and a dog, that having someone come in and say, “But I want you to have all that” would be a serious mindfuck. Like, “Hi, my name is Charlie Brown, and I just stopped trying to kick the football Lucy holds for me and now you’re telling me to give it one last try? No thank you, and who are you to raise all the hopes it took me so long to accept had died? I don’t even know you, lady.” Not ONLY would the set-up with Eileen have been awful, but her death would have had an actual point. “All year Mom’s been saying I could have another life. Here’s this woman that I’ve made a connection with, who understands what I do because she does it, too. Maybe we *could* have a life together. Maybe we *could* leave hunting behind. I don’t even have to worry about what will happen to Dean, because he’s got Mom, and clearly he needs her in a way that I don’t, and she is clearly willing to do whatever it takes to undo all the damage he’s got, and maybe he can eventually have a real life, too. Oh. Eileen has been torn apart by hell hounds. I knew I shouldn’t have even entertained the idea we could have anything real. And fuck you mom for digging up that hope I had salted and burned.” It would have been devastating.
Half of this stuff they already wrote into last season, but by making Mary’s stated motivation, “I am your mother, but I’m not just a mom” and having such a weak actor to try to portray the underlying internal conflict (plus showing that she never stopped hunting – WHAT WERE THEY THINKING), they really ruined the entire thing. Plus, writing Sam and Dean exactly the opposite of the way they should have reacted to their mother coming back didn’t help any. Plus, having the very convoluted reason for Mary leaving (“I can’t adjust, I keep thinking of my little boys in heaven” is *so* weak) so they could force conflict between Mary and Dean was just…ugh. This is exhibit A in how a lousy show runner who fundamentally misunderstands his lead characters can absolutely ruin a show. Dabb thought that the only way for his female viewers to connect to Mary was to show her as this woman who was not defined by being a mother, and thinking that in order to not be defined by being a mother he therefore needed to make her indifferent to her children and their need for her, makes me wonder if he actually knows any women. Or at least any women who aren’t in their early 20s. The last thing anyone invested in this show and in these “boys” would ever want to see is their mom reappearing and clearly not caring about them because “reasons.”
You are killing it, Meredith.
You are also killing ME, since this is so obviously how it should have gone, and I am so sad!!
Spot on in re: Dabb and women – and the impulse to have Mary be some feminist – or “feminist” more like – hoping to get, what, brownie points? Total lack of imagination and empathy. it was very very pandering and did not at ALL serve the story. As though “being a mom” wasn’t somehow important enough – OR her main function in the story. Let her fulfill that function. Or try. Let it play out. (This is happening with a lot of female characters now – and these female characters are getting a LOT of praise from – in my opinion – credulous ideological film critics – who are all about “agency.” She has “agency” in this moment, in that moment. Okay yes. It’s good to have women characters who are active – we need it … but “agency” has come to mean something else, something much more limiting. Like, never having moments of being uncertain, not being allowed to be flawed, or – God forbid – weak. Everything has to be about “self-empowerment.” And this goes back to my acting teacher friends who now have to coach young actresses on why Blanche Dubois isn’t “weak” or “pathetic” but a great female character who has survived the best way she could, and is making a stand for her dignity, and yes – the world eats her up – but still: she is a brave and resourceful woman, who is terrified of being alone. She’s NOT “weak”. And yet she doesn’t have the right kind of “agency” in this particular landscape – so she doesn’t pass muster.
The argument about Phantom Thread – which probably didn’t filter down out of the Film Critic world – was really fierce. The women who loved it (and I was one) were a lonely group. Which I’m not complaining or anything – I’m perfectly fine in having an opinion that differs from others. But I felt the film was almost willfully misread by the “women must have agency at all times” people – because that female character TOTALLY has agency, #1 – although her “agency” is about “I love this man and I must make a stand to be allowed to love him, he MUST let me into his heart” – and the WAY she goes about that is so bonkers, but so beautiful. But suddenly, though, in the current landscape – a woman trying to make a relationship work doesn’t have “agency” – or it’s not the right kind of agency. I tried to express in the essay I wrote for Film Comment that relationships are important – to most human beings – and making something work with someone you love is of the ultimate importance! That’s what the movie is about. So we can’t do love stories anymore? Being in love makes you weak? Wanting to be with a man means you have no agency? I’m over-simplifying, I realize, and generalizing – but it’s definitely a very new aspect of the critical landscape – and writers and show runners and all the rest absorb this stuff and it shows up in their writing.
And I have FELT that shift in Supernatural, for sure. I think it’s one of the reasons why they’re shying away from sex, too. Too hot a topic, too many ways to get it wrong. Which is so sad. Member Sam and Piper in the back seat of the Impala? Those were the days.
It’s extremely complex – but you laid it all out beautifully, in terms of Mary – and her relationship to being a mother AND to being a hunter. To avoid that – or to totally change her backstory to show she didn’t “give up” by being a mom (!!!!!!) – is to betray the spirit of the entire story – and it leaves no one anywhere to go.
You lay out so beautifully how the whole thing could have gone and I want to cry just thinking about the missed opportunities – especially in terms of conflict and growth between Sam and Dean.
Such a tragic misfire – and, as you say, highlighted Sam Smith’s lack of depth as an actress.
Also, your observation about how Sam has been completely neutered for an ENTIRE SEASON – We have been bitching about this for a year now. Like: where is Sam?? No one over there understands Sam anymore.
The moment it all went south was when he said the immortal words at the end of Season 11: “Why are planets round?”
That showed that nobody over there understood Sam or knew what they were doing at all in terms of his character. Sam has been the biggest casualty, in my opinion.
Meredith, that was amazing. How I wish your vision could have been how this season played out. You certainly fired my imagination with the potential.
Oh man Meredith when you lay out all the set-ups that just DIED like that, yikes. I’m cringing.
I know, me too.
And don’t forget the shedim! I feel a little cheated. I was only tolerating evil Col. Sanders because he was supposedly bent on raising these mysterious creatures from the depths of hell! There’s yet another set-up that died by the wayside.
As for Sister Jo/Anael, I agree that her inclusion seems entirely gratuitous in retrospect. She clearly doesn’t fit with the other angels, but if there’s only 6 of them left where did she go? They haven’t even mentioned her existence since she disappeared. I liked her sass with Lucifer, but I can’t imagine Naomi & co. tolerating Anael’s spunk.
also, Meredith: I so hear you on the sex thing.
The lack of sex in the show – even the possibility – has been appalling. Again, I don’t think Dabb gets that aspect of the show – Dean with the bra around his neck was played as a joke. And yes, Sam …
I keep thinking of the missed opportunity of Eileen. How carefully she was set up. How beautiful the dynamic with Sam was. And him saying “Call if you just want to hang out” …
and then you don’t DO anything with that?
This goes back to what I was saying in the thread about putting money in the bank. They have all this money in the back and it’s accruing interest but they’re either not DOING anything with it – or they’re spending it in the worst way possible.
Why NOT Sam have an actual ROMANCE?
Are they afraid that “fans” wouldn’t approve? They need to not listen to those silly fans. Because plenty of OTHER fans would have loved to see it – not that Sam would suddenly go live in a little house and not be a hunter – but that the PERSONAL aspect of his life would then iMPACT the thing going on with Dean – and it would be fascinating. Why not explore this? My God, what the HELL, people. Why even create a character like Eileen – and have Sam be drawn to her like that – set up such a beautiful possibility – and then just have Eileen be killed in a TEASER?
It’s unforgivable.
Never forgiven. When people say, everyone dies in SPN. That’s true but some are given meaning and emotion around that death – John, Bobby, Ellen and Jo. As you said, why build her up at all if there wasn’t some meaning to it other than a quick plot point? I felt robbed.
I agree that the way Eileen was killed was a gross injustice to the character, but I had a completely different read on the Sam & Eileen relationship. It seemed to me that they HAD developed an intimate relationship off camera and when she spent the night at the bunker I assumed it was with Sam. I also concluded that it wasn’t the first time because Dean wasn’t acting like a twitterpated, matchmaking, 13 year old girl. I’m not saying I’m right, just that’s how I read it when I watched it. I absolutely think they were trying to purposefully leave it open to interpretation so as not to upset any particular group of fans. Clearly the extreme subtlety combined with likely edited scenes left that relationship paper thin. Maybe I am the one who was too willing to grasp at imaginary straws simply because I wanted it to be so…
//I swear if it doesn’t turn out that he’s Empty!Cas at some point I’m going to write someone a Strongly Worded Letter// lol, we will start a petition
I agree with so much of what you say here. Logically, you’re right about Dean seeing that carotid artery spurting and knowing that Sam must be dead. However, I come back around to Sheila’s concept of money in the bank on this one because of Red Meat. Dean checked Sam’s seemingly dead body himself and still, Sam wasn’t really dead. That trauma, that build-up, our own emotional investment in that episode, tells me that Dean would always be sure about to check what he sees and never to leave Sam’s dead body behind.
It was due partly to the show having to move things along, partly to show us that Dean puts other people needs above the brothers’ needs, but it took me out of the moment. Certainly, it paid off in spades with the Lucifer scene and the shame march into camp. But in that moment, I was shaking my head.
Yes, especially comparing his actions in Red Meat where he did eventually put the needs of the living above his own need to stay with Sam and his preference to die there beside his brother. I’m like you, Paula, I understand the need to move the story along and to set up the Sam/Lucifer scene, but we could easily have traded 30 seconds of “laying pipe” jokes for Dean to get half a minute of closure before being pulled back to the mission.
Paula,
I think you got your wish! Cass killing Cass? But the horribly bad Russian accent? Misha is a wonderful actor so why all this garbage?
This episode was painful to watch for mostly good reasons. Jensen and Jared got something meaty to do finally.
I did have an eww moment when Rowena and Gabriel were having their seduction scene, but the payoff was Sam’s face when the guys came back into the room and caught them. It was priceless.
I agree with everything said above about Dean dying inside and just going through the motions of living. Jensen knocked it out of the park as usual. I did feel sorry for the girl when she tried to sympathize with Dean. I’d shrink away from the look he gave her too!
Jared hit this one out of the park also. Sam’s worst nightmare came to life when he woke up trapped in a room with Lucifer and then had to agree to work with him.
burn down the bunker, burn down the alt-world, burn the camo, burn the paramilitarians, burn the machine guns, burn the berets, burn Mary’s mascara, burn 6th-grade theology gotchas, burn dumbass plans, burn dumbass Cas plots, burn Trump references, burn Hitler haircuts, burn dissolves and ugly smash cuts, burn suckass ’90s Alan Parsons Project ripoff scores, burn Hero Speeches, burn A Toast To The Winchesters, burn flashbacks, burn incompetence, burn unfunny jokes, burn embarrassingly bad punches and girl power, burn My Boys, burn We Are Family Everybody Get Up And Sing, burn yak yak yak, burn Cas walking urgently into scenes with constipated strain on his face, burn punches with sack-of-coins sound effects because they’re soooo intense, burn ugly go-pro interior car shots that are meant to feel exciting?, burn the diminution of angels, burn conversations between Bobby and S&D with no emotion, burn painfully cheesy guitar licks, burn cliche, burn it all, please, and see what rises from the ashes.
Wait, there was a 90s Alan Parsons Project ripoff score?
hahaha okay I might have been exaggerating slightly there but that whole “driving to the rift” sequence gave me the worst On Air flashbacks, I swear.
Amen.
Oh God it was awful start to finish.
one thing I really liked was the hug scene. That really worked for me. But there was so little there overall and then the end just crucified me — like, I agree with you so much Pat, all this alt-stuff is so deadly bland and irrelevant. And now it’s in our world too!
also, I’ve come around on the fact that no one ever told Jack about Sam’s history with Lucifer. I still think it’s very, very, very, very, very dumb that everyone let Lucifer control the framing of the conversation — it wouldn’t have taken much at all to bust his woe-is-me bubble — but I think that Sam’s silence (and Dean’s) is a) understandable and b) has a kind of emotional sturm und drang, an engine that gives me echoes of the old days.
/ burn the diminution of angels/
I feel like this was the beginning of the awful. Once capable of it, the writers can commit any sin.
This season has been a blur for me because of my disconnection from almost all of the activity going on in the AU world. Whenever New!Michael, Mary and Lucifer are on screen, a switch in my brain clicks to off and all dialogue sounds like the adults in those Charlie Brown cartoons. All of the running around and bad angels, alt!Bobby, Kevin Tran and alt!Charlie didn’t even lift the last half of S13 beyond pretty dismal. I got all excited when Mary said that she wanted to stay in AU world, but then she was talked into going back through the rift. Bummer. I have my fingers crossed that Lucifer gets sent back to the cage PERMANENTLY. That character has become a black hole to me – sucking all the energy out of his scenes.
I still love the brothers (and Jack) and they’re the only things keeping me coming back, but if they extend this story line into S14, it’s gonna be a hard journey for me.
As wonky as the whole thing was, what I did like were the interactions between Jack and Lucifer. They are both really great actors, and I really admire Calvert’s work throughout the season. A lesser actor could have made this character whiny and bland, especially given how shitty the writing has been in general. I really took pleasure watching Lucifer trying to manipulate his son because he doesn’t know how to do it any other way (at least that’s my take on it), and Jack listening.
Agreed. He listens really well and yet you don’t get the idea that he’s being sucked in either. Calvert is really compelling.
agreed x2! Calvert has been a huge boon to the season. Melanie you’re so right — I really enjoy watching him listen.
100%.