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That restroom was like a brief shot of Awful Motel Room porn for us old time viewers. When Barbara opened the door and the blue shadows from the woods were on it, the shot was momentarily beautiful. And then hideous green! I liked that the changing table on the wall was the same color.
I was surprised that bacon was not mentioned on the shopping list.
I did like the MOW and the sherif. I thought his pushback on S&D about “why don’t you tell people about monsters” was a good thing to have. I was unconvinced by their answers. Blah writing.
I also liked bringing back the townies. The final scene with them really highlighted Jack’s lack of self-awareness and his lack of self-control. I also liked Jack’s increasing Winchester-ization by lying to S&D. Jump in the bell jar, Jacky-boy!
I agree, this episode was beautifully designed and shot. That opening with Sam hunched over the laptop in the kitchen (interesting that he was in there, instead of his usual spot in the library. There was something furtive about it–or maybe cozy/claustrophibic hiding?) All the deep blues, sickly greens, shadows, not being able to see the monster for most of the ep– I loved it. And the sheriff joins the long line of law enforcement characters I’d love to see again.
I also really liked Jack’s verbal pratfall over his age, “I’m two–wenty–“, which Calvert just nailed, and the way his powers were depicted as both delightful and scary.
I feel like, rather than Sam & Dean’s answers to the sheriff being banal, it was more that they are inadequate. And the scene was played in a way that suggests that they realize this. Sam, especially.
Sam’s face in this scene and at the end of the monster confrontation just made my heart ache for him.
All in all, a solid MoW.
“two-wenty” was so good!!
// I feel like, rather than Sam & Dean’s answers to the sheriff being banal, it was more that they are inadequate. And the scene was played in a way that suggests that they realize this. Sam, especially. //
Barb – I agree. There was nuance in this – and they definitely came up against the inadequacy of their own justifications for how they do … everything. Lying is so automatic for both of them.
I was thinking back to Lisa and Ben actually – and how Dean was just so not practiced with being open about things – that he basically imprisoned them in the house before Lisa was like, “Dean? Stop.”
I liked that they addressed this in this episode.
Mutecypher – I read your comment after writing mine. Yes – he jumped in the belljar! That was very good!
Okay so I have a mixed response – not just to this but to stuff in general (what a shock).
There was a lot I really liked here. I liked the complexity we were given in the relationship between sheriff father and son – if you think about it the episode managed to put in a hell of a lot of information in that first scene. Parents divorced, mom’s off with a new man, kid caught in the middle – dad being authority figure, son not having it – but then all these other things about lying to save your kid’s innocence – and then how that lie bites you in the ass, etc. I thought both actors did a very nice in-depth job with the little screen time they had.
I loved the disgusting bathroom. They went all out in production design.
It was good to see the townie kids again. I think it’s so funny that they’re all rebelliously going to hang out in this abandoned house – but what they do when they’re there is study for the SATs, not party and get high. (Do kids party and get high anymore? KIDDING.)
The flashback to the creation of the creature was APPALLING. Like, if you look at the footage … and you’re in charge … just cut it, if it’s that bad. You get enough from the sheriff telling the story. My God, it was almost in pirate-shirt-haunted-painting-flashback level of badness.
Calvert is really quite excellent.
Good MOTW. Good to not have Castiel present, and good to have it be Sam and Dean in the Impala. Not enough of that.
I had a bit of an issue with the After School Special-y “message” – “should you lie? Is it ever okay to lie?” Sam and Dean wrapping up the message in the end Impala scene was too on the nose – why not let them disagree and let them stew about it – this is the thing with them. They lie. They justify it. So many people have died because they justify lying. I mean, I’m exaggerating – there was a layered exploration of lying in the ep: them lying to Jack, sheriff lying to son, Sam lying to the hunters – and lying to Maggie, really, in letting her think that she was capable at anything (sorry) … Those connections are there in the episode already – I don’t need the underlining.
I loved the line when Dean said “We do what we always do. We lie.” A necessary contrast to all the “we hunt monsters we save the world ” BULLSHIT that has taken over the show. Like nobody is allowed to feel bad anymore, except in the most superficial way.
All of this being said: in the final scene when they go home to Jack – and Jack doesn’t tell them what happened – even in the context of “we shouldn’t have lied to you” coming from them – that he doesn’t come clean – that the dysfunction of the Winchester dynamic has seeped in to the degree that he lies – and lies EASILY – now that’s the Supernatural I know and love. Here are Dean and Sam giving a “good parent” talk – and yet they’re both so fucked up and lying is so much a part of who they are – they don’t even realize the damage has been done.
The best part is that all of that was subtext. You “read into” what you’ve seen instead of having it be told to you. Like, Sam walked away from Jack – thinking he’s had a good talk with Jack – thinking maybe that he and Dean made some progress in their little Impala discussion about lying – and yet … here the cycle is, still. And Sam is not aware of it – but WE are.
My final gripe: where the hell is the HUMOR these days? I am really ready for a big old goofball episode – but honestly I don’t feel like the team over there has it in them anymore.
Really glad to have your artful eye watching the show in this last season-and-a-quarter! I need to hop back and read the older discussions now. Thank you!
One of my major annoyances for years came up again in last nights episode – how it’s so dumb that they have two angels but then never seem to want then to use their powers to take out the various supernatural entities. They have Jack all powered up again but they think that he’s too unstable to help clean up the MOTWs. I started getting tired of this when Cas would lose his powers so frequently in past seasons — he could snap his fingers and destroy the vampires, wraiths, ghosts, demons, etc. Instead he’s too weak, cut off from heaven, completely drained of power or just MIA.
I understand that the show would be over if they allowed Cas or Jack to take out all of the things they hunt, but it was dumb to set up these all powerful beings in the show and them hobble them to fit the episode. This will always bug me.
Pat – yes, it is a problem! IIRC there’s a DVD commentary track from back in Season 4 where they discussed the issues therein with Castiel. They had created this being who could obliterate an entire town – which could potentially wreck the whole show! if they always had Castiel on hand – so they had to hold him back.
Now, instead of holding them back – they drain them of power for whatever reason, which then manifests in tuberculosis, and it becomes this whole “i’m so concerned for how sick you are” and “how is the tuberculosis coming” narrative and it’s very repetitive.
It’s similar to the issue with Rowena – magic is now SO powerful it can reverse death, etc. You lose a lot when magic becomes “abacadabra” as opposed to something much more challenging and mysterious.
Magic is too hand-wavy anymore. There aren’t any rules to it, barely any cost. Lazy world-building, because they can get away with it.
https://www.popsugar.com/entertainment/Supernatural-Canceled-CW-45950080?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=post&utm_campaign=family&fbclid=IwAR2PzwbS5hg1uk9elMaqzEkqF0cB-HRzvrIV9K3yFBRQHYQ0k8Z0_baPQeU
FYI. In case you haven’t seen it yet.
as sad as I am, it’s obviously time. :( lots of emotions.
I know–I saw it coming, but it still hit hard–and in the middle of a workday, too! A co-worker sent it to me, and a couple of people are actually giving condolences. Excuse me while I go hide in the breakroom–
I’m very happy I discovered the show – albeit late – it’s given me so much.
after lj died and those buds started hating the show, and twop went the same way, and the av club stopped reviewing, not having migrated to tumblr or twitter, I’d lost my SPN people during a particularly tough and extended irl time — you discovering and embracing the show and creating a community here, coinciding with the resurgence of s9, felt like an absolute miracle. So thank you Sheila! The show (as text and as everything else tangled up with it) has been a boon to my life for fourteen years now and I’ll be glad to tip my hat to it with you folks when that happens.
Jessie –
// you discovering and embracing the show and creating a community here, coinciding with the resurgence of s9, felt like an absolute miracle. //
wow, I am so glad to hear this. I think I remember your first comment on this – I think I posted just a picture of Jensen, and said “OMG so gorgeous” or something equally as articulate, and you were there in the comments to support.
Your participation here in SPN talks has been so invaluable – not only that but we met IRL which is so awesome too –
This has really been one of the most extraordinary communities here – everyone is so smart!! Our epic threads on this damn show!
Very grateful to ALL of you who have shown up here to discuss.
Wow. It’s actually going to end.
Sheila, it’s been a blast, an education and such a privilege to be along for this particular ride, along you and all the fantastic commenters (and occasional annoying c*nt). I’ve been doing a rewatch of earlier seasons, and regularly back to old recaps and comments threads to remind myself of the weekly joyride of watching in real time. I’m not watching this season but I think I’ll watch the final one – really curious to see how it all comes to an end, and how the sense of an ending, a real ending, will affect things.
And then there’s all the fun of speculating what will come next for these guys …
Sheila –
Though I had been commenting long before, your wonderful deep dives and these SPN comment-orgies came along during a tough time for me. As they did for Jessie. They were a welcome opportunity to dwell in joy and beauty and community. Thanks for building this and thanks to all the wonderful people who are part of it. I still hope for new episodes that generate 100+ comments.
ha, Sheila, I remember that! That s2 pic of Dean in the Harvelle bar. What a shibboleth! It’s been such a pleasure.
Helena —
I’m excited to hear you’ll be back for the last season! \o/ I can’t wait. Let me fill you in: Mary came back but it didn’t matter much. Sam and Dean had a kid together and he’s about as well adjusted as you’d expect. Sam got beaten up by a giant fly wearing an Edwardian veil hat. Dean started wearing a newsboy cap in retaliation but then in a series of comical mishaps it got left in the fridge. Sam got into a hypothetical turtleneck wearing scene and then after that a non-consensual Dame-Edna-glasses-wearing scene. The monster from Stephen King’s classic short story The Raft developed a dry wit and cursed Cas to turn into a dead swan if he ever met his Siegfried. Mary and Bobby live in what one can only assume to be a BDSM dungeon cabin deep in the Canadian wilderness. Sam grew a Beard of Leadership but then had to shave it off after it became unfortunately clear that he empowered most of his human capital to buy in past their optimal performance zones and now they’re hot-desking in that great open-plan office in the sky (closed for renovations). Dean decided after a good five minutes of hard thought that the best solution to deal with the incipient end of the world was to turn himself into a pilchard (sadly we don’t know if that would have worked because the great evil was defeated in a short post-credits tag). Now that most of the hunters and adults in the world have been consumed by teeming hoards of Extremely DarkWeb monsters most of our secondary characters are 16-year-old lesbians. John came back and hoo boy! Was he came back all right! Jeepers! Jumpin Jehoshephat was he there! Sam set the table and they all had a laugh.
I think that’s about it? oh! Nick keeps beating people to death with a hammer but Sam and Dean have decided to politely ignore it, I’m guessing because of the embarrassment factor.
Jessie, thanks so much for filling me in. I wish it was you writing the episode recaps for the DVDs because you really sell ’em.
SO BUMMED to have missed the Beard of Leadership as it kind of taps into my own secret hope for the final episode of the series which is that Sam and Dean grow flowing beards then give them a Viking funeral garbed in tie-dyed henleys and sporting horn-rimmed spectacles.
wait, the beards? The beards, carefully shaved, bespectabled, and behenleyed, are laid gently on the deck of a Viking ship, surrounded by all the beards’ possessions, and then are set alight and shoved out into the great inner sea of Kansas, presumably while Sam and Dean hold hands on the bank and shed single perfect tears?
I love it and I literally cannot wait for Jorodowsky to take over from Dabb for the final season.
Yes, the beards but ok, yeah, maybe better for the penultimate episode, because I actually want the full every-henley-which-ever-appeared-in-the-show montage for the final episode. Yes I am a simple person with very simple needs.
That’s a good point. The last episode should probably just be Sam and Dean going through their wardrobes. It could be a very subtle version of a clip show. Dean could hold one up and say hey remember when you got stabbed on the back and I cried over your stinky body for three days, good times. And then they high five.
// The last episode should probably just be Sam and Dean going through their wardrobes. //
hahahaha
I believe you made this comment before the 24-hour long conversation about cheesecloth. It all ties together. This is what the show is about.
// I actually want the full every-henley-which-ever-appeared-in-the-show montage for the final episode. //
This is what I need.
I’m surprised how emotional this is, even though as Barb says, we saw it coming. I just hope that let CW lets them off the leash so that we can have an epic grand finale.b
Carolyn –
Amen to that! Here’s to hoping for an epic finale.
I’m very emotional about it too, Carolyn. Even as we’ve been slightly frustrated lately with the show – it’s still this commitment we all share, this thing we do, discussing it. It’s such a big part of our lives.
and yes: off the leash, please. I remember Jessie saying once that she hoped the ending was the Impala roaring off into the night – like the last shot of Fan Fiction – and I am hoping it goes in that direction. I’m open to whatever .. but I’m just hoping it’s not Dean, Sam and Cas clinking beer bottles in the bunker kitchen to close us out. Lol.
… telling everyone how they’re the guys who save the world.
oh dear Lord no.
oh no, don’t make me preemptively hulk out about this possibility!!
Yes! Some version of riding/walking off to the sunset. Or an echo of the closing shot in the pilot with the brothers tossing a weapon in the trunk and the lid slamming shut on “we’ve got work to do.”
I’d be satisfied with a blaze of glory, too, on the opposite end of the spectrum, with Sam and Dean fulfilling their destined roles in an unexpected way.
It’s a weird coincidence, too, that yesterday I posted a fanfic whose first line was “Billie said, ‘It’s over.’”
Billie knows how it all ends.
fingers and toes crossed, Carolyn! That they can write well and purposefully and stick the landing.
The thread above was getting unwieldy – moving us down here!
Helena –
// Sheila, it’s been a blast, an education and such a privilege to be along for this particular ride, along you and all the fantastic commenters (and occasional annoying c*nt).//
It’s been a great ride. Also yes, annoying c*nts – lol – SPN brought the most entertaining troll to my site possible. I also love how everyone else handled her when she showed up on a rampage – just kind of like “oooookayyy lady you sound crazeeeee” – and then everyone began to mock her immediately.
We’ve had so much damn fun talking about this show. Very happy about that.
Mutecypher –
// SPN comment-orgies came along during a tough time for me. As they did for Jessie. They were a welcome opportunity to dwell in joy and beauty and community. //
I’m so happy to hear that – it seems like it was that way for a lot of people. The positive side of fandom!
Jessie – your recap of the past seasons is so funny I can barely breathe.
Dean left his hat in the fridge. HA. He did!!
// Sam grew a Beard of Leadership but then had to shave it off after it became unfortunately clear that he empowered most of his human capital to buy in past their optimal performance zones //
Too true.
// most of our secondary characters are 16-year-old lesbians. //
LOL!!!
But truth!!
I love this website! I just reviewed all of our comments since 3/22 and laughed (Jessie, your recap was brilliant!), cried and did both at the same time. God, we are smart.
Oddly, I feel much more motivated to keep watching/discussing the show now that I can actually see the finish line in the distance :)
Can’t wait for them to really be able to let rip and do whatever the hell they want in the final season knowing they won’t have to somehow undermine it all in the last few episodes in order to set up for ANOTHER season.
I also can’t wait for all the non-disclosure agreements or whatever (do they have those??) to be up, so we can maybe start getting some of the behind-the-scenes dish…not with the actors so much as the writers’ room, because I would really love to know what was behind some of the decisions that have been made over the years. Also because I’m nosy.
It would be great to get some backstage confirmation of what we already felt was going on on the screen.
I do hope they let her rip. I don’t have much faith, though. I think they’re going to maybe pour on even harder the “we are heroes we save the world” thing – they might even take it into space so it can be “Sam and Dean saved the universe”, cue Family Theme.
But let me not be bitter.
I will remain hopeful.
Wow, I (almost) missed one hell of a convo – Jessie, your recaps are always priceless!
I totally get the sadness, but I’ve been so disappointed with the few last seasons that I just wish it had happened sooner. I’m curious to see what they do next!
Thanks to this amazing group of people and Sheila’s recaps, I feel like it will never truly end for us. For me too, Supernatural came in a very dark moment of my life, and this show and this fine group of people has meant so much to me. Thank you, Sheila, for creating this amazing space where we can both analyze the darkest sexual undercurrents of relationships AND talk about shirts literally two days in a row – I couldn’t reply yesterday but I was reading your tweets and crying with laughter in a waiting room. Next: let’s talk about henleys.
// I also love how everyone else handled her when she showed up on a rampage//
You know, now in a conversation when someone is being irrational and I decide to just leave it, I always think of Helena’s “I’ll miss our talks”!
“I’ll miss our talks.” HAHAHA
I mean, what else are you gonna say?? We drove that woman INSANE. hahaha
// where we can both analyze the darkest sexual undercurrents of relationships AND talk about shirts literally two days in a row //
I know!! This is the best part! One thing leads to another! A racist truck leads to discourse on coffee pots through the ages.
I am very glad I decided to start writing about the show. When I have a moment to breathe over here, I do want to write up a little thing about how I discovered the show and my journey with it – it’s already here, but kind of buried in comments sections and recaps. It came along at a crazy time for me too – this seems to be a theme – and it was such a worthy object of obsession!
“Supernatural came in a very dark moment of my life” — me too. I think it’s so interesting that this is true of many people, but I know, for me, I wasn’t seeking it out. My daughter liked it, she suggested I watch it, I did, and it captivated me immediately. Would it have resonated with me so deeply if I hadn’t been feeling so rejected and betrayed, lost and unsure? I don’t know. I do know that I’m so glad at the felicitous chance that brought me to your wonderful recaps, Sheila. I thoroughly enjoyed the comments too, though from time to time I regretted not finding them earlier because I wanted to chime in on a discussion that had taken place much earlier.
I was all set to come in here and start laughing about how perfectly this episode illustrated everything that has gone wrong with the way they brought Mary back but then there was that final shot of the table and I got all mad again :-(
But hey…..hopefully means good things for s15?
Bah – haven’t seen it yet!! will return to discuss!
“most heroic men on the planet.”
Burn it all down.
So many monologues. Cas’ long monologue about Jack. “we are a family” – that just feels very pandering to me. Dean saying “we do what we always do” not once, but twice. Exhibit 8,000 in my argument that Rowena has been catastrophic to the show and the writers who work on the show.
Is Castiel an angel? Will someone please tell me what he is? If he’s an angel, why does he drive? What are his powers?
//What are his powers?//
accents
at this point, his superpower is: “always make the wrong choice so that Sam and Dean can then feel betrayed.”
I mean, this has been the case since … season 6, maybe?
I know you’re not watching but this is to those who are.
This episode really showed the purposelessness of this character – and he’s been eradicated (like so much else) because of Rowena.
I did find Dean’s rage thrilling – it was in some other place for him as an actor – it felt barely in his control. Consider how hurt he was with the “kryptonite” giveaway in whatever the hell season that was – how it spiraled him into depression and nightmares and alcoholism and Destiel-ers went home happy. This? It was something new, and I liked seeing JA in that barely-controlled rage zone. The connection with Cas has been nonexistent for years now.
I don’t think this is particularly good story-telling – it’s same ol same ol – and it feels very contrived. So now Cas, for the eleventy-billionth time will have to somehow regain the trust of the brothers – or do something to redeem himself – and just none of it has any OOMPH anymore.
That being said, I thought Dean’s anger – and how volatile it was – was exciting to watch. Plus Sam holding Cas back from going to Dean. This is the kind of thing the show used to do so well. In earlier seasons, a moment like that, the entire audience would be collapsed in a puddle.
and now I’m going to be very mean.
The people doing this show are professional writers. But it’s like they forgot how stories work. We’ve had 3 years of Mary being “badass” – and then 2 eps ago she says “I know I can be very cut off and very hard …” (which made me go, “So far has this show fallen, so much has it forgotten its origin story”) – and now suddenly, we get all these fascinating flashbacks? With some ambiguity in them too?
They give it to us NOW? all at once? as opposed to … all along? So they suddenly realized all the BLANKS in their Mary story?
WTF is going on over there. In what world is that effective story-telling?
In other relationships in the past – Lisa – or Benny – supporting characters were invested in enough that we went along on the ride of the relationship. Charlie. Like, the full ka-boom power of Pac-Man Fever worked because they had already established the relationship – through the couple of Charlie episodes before. Finally it was time to deepen our understanding of Charlie, fill in her backstory … but they had already done the hard work of having us give a shit about her, and see what her friendship meant to Dean (and Sam, but mostly Dean).
They didn’t just throw in this character, kill her off, and then give us all these flashbacks of good times … that we didn’t see the first time around.
It’s just baffling to me.
I felt exactly that about Mary! They had SO LONG to develop more sides to her, but every choice they made all along was her hurting her sons by leaving them, spending time with others, choosing to fight beside other people, choosing to respect and honor others with little appreciation of the value of her sons, but suddenly we see it all in one episode. That is tremendously bad storytellling, as if they had no idea where her storyline would eventually lead, but it also felt extremely manipulative: “We know you like/admire Mary — the reason the Winchesters started hunting — so we’ll bring her back but portray her as an uber-hunter, as someone cold and aloof. But now, oh, we want you to feel sad so we’ll show a sudden maternal side?” Ugh!
hahahaha
is that a power or a curse?
I noticed Dean’s repeated line too! What even? Who’s writing/editing this thing?
Re. Castiel’s driving, I *think* it’s an attempt to wrangle angel powers into something manageable, so they took away their “wings” (blipping-around powers), until it comes time to die … then the silhouette of them is burned into the earth, because it’s “cool”.
Cris – sadly, I think you’re right.
Honestly, I’m having a moment right now with this show. I just did a re-watch of Season 2. It’s incredible how much the show has been betrayed. I guess I have been in denial – or it’s just that much more stark when you put them side by side.
I’m not against change or growth. I was into all of the new developments along the way – angels! Men of letters bunker! Lisa/Ben. Amelia. Member I stuck up for her! I’m into it, as long as I felt those in charge were working in the same continuum.
But now …
I’m telling you, there is more tension in Season 2 regarding Dean’s outstanding warrant in St. Louis and Agent Hendriksen closing in than there has been in the entirety of the series since Season 11. And that’s not even the main arc in Season 2.
And the Mary thing.
I wish I had stopped watching. What they did to Mary has impacted how I viewed What Is and What Should Never Be. They drained the relationship – past and present – of meaning. I mean, I knew they had done this and I have felt it since the jump – but it’s STARKLY clear watching these early episodes alongside the current one.
Sorry to be such a downer. They’ve done a LOT of damage. More than I even realized before.
Last night’s episode and the one prior was a huge case of “too little too late” when it came to Mary. Sam Smith did a fine job with her scenes. I don’t feel like she is an incredibly strong actress, but there have been several times this season that I’ve warmed up considerably towards the character of Mary. She’s actually shown that she cares about her sons and has proven that she can be somewhat maternal, but seeing it in flashbacks during her “death” episode doesn’t cut it.
The best scene of the whole episode for me was the one where Mary was asleep on Dean’s shoulder and he looked over and smiled at her. That scene was powerful, beautiful, lasted 2 seconds, and no words were necessary. If we had seen a few scenes over the years of Mary coming up and laying a hand on Dean’s shoulder and the two exchanging a smile, or perhaps coming in the room with Sam while he was hunched over his laptop or his books and handing him a cup of coffee and giving him a quick kiss on his forehead, that would have completely changed my perspective of her. It wouldn’t have even had to compromise her “bad assery” or whatever the heck the show was going for. It would have just been small moments to let people know that yes indeed Mary loved her sons.
I haven’t commented in awhile. The episode where they killed Michael off in about 5 minutes, almost seemingly as an afterthought at the end of a MOW episode absolutely infuriated me. I knew I wouldn’t be able to comment without ranting :-)
I guess I had actually let myself believe that the show was going to potentially give us one of the most suspenseful, gut wrenching finales that we would have had in awhile…Dean sinking to the bottom of the ocean in the box. Guess I should have known better with this current crew.
So now the focus is off the Winchester’s and on to Jack and the state of his soul. I like Jack. I’m concerned for Jack, but a finale involving him will not make me happy or keep me concerned over the summer.
I feel like I’ve overall sunk back into the meh state that I’ve watched most of this season in, with the exception of those few bright and shining episodes that happened after winter hiatus that got my stinking hope on the rise again.
One tiny, tiny positive is that they do seem to be getting rid of quite a few superfluous characters. They’ve gotten rid of Maggie, a huge chunk of the AU hunters, Nick, and now Mary (I actually kind of feel bad lumping her in with superfluous, but….) Do we have a tiny spark of hope that next season might actually focus on the Winchester’s again? With this current show runner and writing crew….who knows!! If they blow up the bunker in the finale, now that would get me excited again!!
I’m concerned for Jack, but a finale involving him will not make me happy or keep me concerned over the summer.
Yep, me too. I’ve mentioned this before, but the Winchesters have gone from epic heroes to iconic heroes. With epic heroes, the story is about THEM, their growth, their adventures, their trials. And with iconic heroes, the hero is the character that guides *other* characters through their own stories, a la Mad Max and Conan the Barbarian.
Good, bad, or otherwise, it feels like a side-effect of trying to evolve the show into an ensemble cast. The stories have been Jack and Mary’s stories, not Sam and Dean’s. (Though at least they did try with Michael!Dean.)
All the retconning of Mary being a sympathetic character in her final episode? That should’ve been shown to us as it unspooled, not in flashbacks, then I might actually care that she died! The only person who wrote her well (imho) was Davy Perez, in ‘Damaged Goods’, for instance.
I so agree that getting rid of the superfluous characters may work to refocus the story on the core of the show again: the struggles and successes and tragedies of being Sam and Dean Winchester.
// With epic heroes, the story is about THEM, their growth, their adventures, their trials. And with iconic heroes, the hero is the character that guides *other* characters through their own stories, a la Mad Max and Conan the Barbarian. //
Cris – this is such a good point. You are so right.
What you wrote about Mary is exactly what I’ve been saying to myself! I too loved that quick little glimpse of Dean driving with Mary sleeping – the look on his face! How hard would it have been to include things like that? Instead we get her leaving again and again, saying she needs space, saying she wants to stay in an alternate universe and fight besides strangers because she respects them.
People who don’t like Mary are being called “Mary-haters” online, and I resent that because it seems so dismissive. My feelings about her are much more complicated. I’m disappointed and frustrated at how the writers chose to portray her, at the choices she made, and at how suddenly we’re being shown the side of her we should have been seeing all along.
// How hard would it have been to include things like that? Instead we get her leaving again and again, saying she needs space, saying she wants to stay in an alternate universe and fight besides strangers because she respects them. //
Terrible terrible storywriting. I’m really pissed off right now, mainly because I just re-watched What Is and What Should Never Be. They never should have brought her back. The way they refused to deal with her – or engage with the symbolic power of her as set up through 11 other seasons – was just insane.
I’m now convinced that Dabb’s focus all along was in trying to create a successful spin-off – in order to ensure his own job security once SPN finishes.
I’m sorry! I never talk like this!!
But to “wrap up” the unsatisfying Mary arc with FLASHBACKS of stuff they should have been developing all along? Terrible.
Michelle – thank you for this comment which pretty much sums up my own reaction. Was there even an episode last night? If so, I haven’t watched yet.
But the “too little too late” thing in re: Mary kind of broke my heart, honestly. I don’t know what they think they’ve been doing over there, what story they think they’ve been telling – the weird thing is I think THEY think they’ve “nailed it.” I think THEY think that putting Mary’s initials on the table was a genius move. The level of do-not-get-it going on over there is shocking, honestly, and I’m bummed that someone “over there” – Singer? SOMEONE? – didn’t step in.
Re-watching What is and What Should Never Have Been last night was upsetting. I had to force myself to block out what they did with Mary’s return. How much power was in Mary as a symbol, how misguided the return was, how much it BROKE the show.
Ugh. sorry, everyone. I try to see the good things. Not really feeling it today.
re-watching Season 2 was an object lesson in just how fantastic this show once was. The brothers so ENGAGED with each other – the world they operated in felt REAL. This goes back to my issue with the bunker, and how much it has contributed to the “breaking” of the show.
I am not just saying “Let’s just do Season 2 over and over again” – I have been on board through every single permutation this show has gone through – up until Season 11. I have followed them.
And now I just can’t anymore.
The show is more interested in Jack than in Sam and Dean. They are playing support staff to other characters, and all of their concern is about “what’s going on with Jack??” as opposed to – even just recently – the season-long arc – actually LONGER – a season and a half – about Dean and the Mark. Look at how many different ways they explored that – how it affected Sam. I mean, we’re long overdue for something to be going on with SAM too – as far as we know, all he does now is sit in the bunker, laptop open, looking concerned.
I wasn’t fond of Castiel’s memory of his talk with Mary after a hunt. He tells Mary that her boys are glad she’s back (which is true), but that no matter how long she needs to process what’s going on, they’re happy. Ummm, no, they weren’t. They were heartbroken when she chose to leave them. Saying otherwise seems to negate the hurt they felt at what seemed like further rejection from the mother Dean lost at age 4 and that Sam never knew at all. Also, Castiel is foolish to tell her that she should take whatever time she needs. They’re hunters. They face monsters every day. Any moment could be their last. While she’s off adjusting to being alive, her sons could die and be gone forever. You can’t take the gift of life, the gift of time, for granted.
I was also annoyed that, when he said that they’re less alone, she smiled and said, “They were never alone.” It was nice as an acknowledgement of Castiel’s presence in their life and his importance to them, but saying they were never alone seems to invalidate the times when they felt desperately alone, outcasts from society, on the most wanted list as criminals, hunted and hated by both hell and heaven, deserted in childhood by their mother (not her fault for dying but still), deserted over and over again in childhood and season 1 by their father, experiencing the death of Bobby — and how about Castiel leaving Dean alone in Purgatory? I just didn’t like her saying they were NEVER alone. It didn’t seem fair or accurate.
That line irritated me as well. Are we really supposed to believe she was talking about Cas? How would she even know, if this is apparently so early in her resurrection? It’s lazy pablum – like all of her dialogue about Her Boys, clichéd, superficial and pappy. So in that respect, it fits; another part of a fairly uncanny picture of a disconnected, childless mother giving empty pep talks and feeling empty feelings about two strange tall men and their strange friends. I don’t believe the show has been trying to depict that but it’s been the result, and I’m just glad that’s how J2 have been playing it this season.
Aslan – I was very annoyed by that entire exchange too.
// but that no matter how long she needs to process what’s going on, they’re happy. Ummm, no, they weren’t. They were heartbroken when she chose to leave them. Saying otherwise seems to negate the hurt they felt at what seemed //
Exactly!! And – incidentally – that was the strongest episode of all the Mary episodes – or at least with the strongest moments (Sam wincing when he heard the door slam).
Like … are they just hoping we don’t remember this?
and to say “They were never alone” … just negates the whole damn show.
BAH.