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It was nice to see Jake Abel but even that didn’t make this episode memorable. The effect of him being Adam and Michael conversing was just disconcerting to me. I completely forgot that the Michael that inhabited Dean last season and the Michael in Adam are the same, and it hurts my brain trying to remember how all of that works, so I’m not going to dwell on it.
The writers for this show will always take the cheesiest, tired-est path to get to the next episode. They used the utter crap stupid move to have Sam run off with Eileen for her half-assed vampire case and they get picked up by Chuck. That was a no brainer – who didn’t know that that was a trap? I’m also sick of spells, spells, spells! for everything. Just about every character is able to pull a spell out their ass to get a job done. Another easy out is having Rowena be the Queen of Hell. So convenient that a character that they have a history with (and is a fan favorite) happens to be in charge and can make it easy to facilitate their mission.
We all know that dying on this show is a joke, but I think this episode hit a new record for the number of characters who’d died back in the day (besides D/S/C) that appeared in the hour: Eileen. Rowena, Adam, Lilith, and Donatello.
// I completely forgot that the Michael that inhabited Dean last season and the Michael in Adam are the same//
Well, technically, Dean was possessed by the Michael from the Alternate Universe. The Michael that’s possessing Adam has been in the Cage since the end of Season 5. I did like Adam and Michael’s relationship, because we haven’t really seen that dynamic between an angel and host before. Castiel certainly didn’t give Jimmy Novack the chance to call home and update his family back in the day.
Thanks for the reminder of how the Dean, Adam and Michael(s) situation works out. Forgot about the AU aspect of Michael!Dean.
// Forgot about the AU aspect of Michael!Dean.//
Me too. I wish I could forget it for good, frankly!
// I did like Adam and Michael’s relationship, because we haven’t really seen that dynamic between an angel and host before. //
Yes, that was all very interesting.
And similar to The End – or the other eps where JA had to play opposite another version of himself – I could always tell in the two shots which one was Adam and which was Michael. Abel really worked that shit out and did it effortlessly.
I’m happy he’s back. I’m interested in this – especially since he’s not just some rando. He’s a Winchester.
// I completely forgot that the Michael that inhabited Dean last season and the Michael in Adam are the same, and it hurts my brain trying to remember how all of that works, so I’m not going to dwell on it. //
I had forgotten this too. When I remembered, it just reminded me of how much I despise the AU.
Definitely true about this writing team’s love of the easy out. They really shy away from high stakes. Like, tossing the boys out into the unknown. Like, BURN THE BUNKER. The whole damn episode was in the bunker.
I was happier with the Eileen characterization this time – she seemed more competent than the last episode.
People are very very unhappy about this episode on Twitter. I feel like I’ve been bitching for 3 years straight, so I’m kind of relieved to feel a little bit differently, although I’m sorry everyone is so upset.
You all who read me know that I LOVE it when stuff comes between them – be it a person, an addiction, a disagreement – whatever – I LOVE seeing them have to negotiate a change in the dance step – I LOVE seeing what happens when someone ELSE comes into the picture. (As long as it’s not Castiel.) When either of the Winchesters have to face some change in their dynanmic – shit gets weird and shit gets interesting. Like that weird good episode last season when Dean snuck off and made his death box. Was that last season? It was all about their relationship. That was primary.
But in general there is serious resistance to Sam and Dean ever making choices that doesn’t include the other.
Seeing as one of my favorite seasons is Season 9, suffice it to say I disagree with this viewpoint. I want MORE conflict, MORE fucked up ness, MORE confrontation with their codependence (hate the word, hate the label – how ’bout we just say RELATIONSHIP). Season 9 was heaven.
Eileen is just a symbol of what I have wanted MORE of. If the brothers always no matter what 100& always choose each other – whether it’s to go on a hunt or save each other’s lives or go out for beers – then we have no conflict, we have no “will they or won’t they?” tension. And I LIVE for that tension. I LIVE for Sam not forgiving Dean for Gadreel for episodes on end. This is rich textured stuff. I like character development.
so. anyway. This is why I have always welcomed others into the fold – as long as it’s done RIGHT. It’s been done right before. Lisa was done right. Amelia was done right. I’m interested in conflict, obstacle, and desire. That’s what I want.
So in last night’s episode, we got to see Dean being like “okay, well something’s going on, I’m going to give Sam a dad talk about why it’s okay” – and it was awkward, but it provided an opportunity for BEHAVIOR. and if there’s anythign I have missed – it’s that: behavior.
All the bullshit schtick about food is a lazy writing team trying to just throw us a bone – “oh look there are the characters. Sam eats healthy, Dean eats horribly, tee hee” – and it’s facile and shallow and … so un-interesting. JA and JP PLAY it well because they’re amazing but there’s zero character development going on anymore. you see character development not through plot but through BEHAVIOR.
for 3 years now, the boys relationship has been one of mild concern for one another (“what about your visions” “how’s your shoulder”) – and then just being the Scout Leaders for all the anonymous hunters. snoozeville.
Give me some CHANGE. some STAKES. Have them make CHOICES. Let them get their HEARTS broke. I don’t care HOW you do it – I’m not invested in Sam and Eileen that way – but if you’re GOING to “go there” – then GO THERE. Enough pussyfooting around and telling me they got drunk on margaritas and not show it to me. Think of how the Lisa-Dean relationship was developed – with that end-game in mind. She was going to be “the one” he went to when Sam was gone. So they needed to set her up properly and they needed to plant the seeds of what Dean found there and why he gave it his best shot. Look at how specifically they did that – and it had to be specific because Dean himself is such a SPECIFIC person.
And so is Sam. He’s become very very general in the last 3 years. we all know this. But the spark with Eileen felt … genuine and like it might have possibilities. That was 3 years ago. Those people over there do not know what they are doing.
So. Small things like Eileen going off on a vamp hunt didn’t bother me. What I’m concerned about is the arc they are trying to build up – what are they trying to DO and how they are going about doing it? They can’t just throw shit at us and see what sticks, they can’t just be like “oh hey Eileen’s back, please congratulate us, Eileen fangirls” – or “Let’s make Eileen be even MORE badass because apparently women are no longer allowed to be vulnerable” – and etc. Horrible Wayward bullshit.
There was a lot going on in the ep last night but I felt like it progressed on multiple fronts, in a certain and fluid way. And I felt the characters – for me, that’s the main thing.
I have no real requirements beyond that. You can have them do whatever you want them to do – but do NOT make them not be characters anymore. That’s why we’ve all been so upset.
I understand people are upset, I do! And I completely get the issues with the episode. It wasn’t perfect. I mean, ROWENA? Why are they so ADDICTED to her. lol. But for ME, the main concern in this episode had to do with character and relationship – and that’s what I want. I don’t care what else happens.
If that makes ANY sense.
Okay I just watched it. I thought it was … fantastic? I’m shocked to hear myself say that. And I went into it resistant. I go into all the episodes resistant now. But this one won me over. Even though it was very plot-heavy – it felt driven by emotion. and not just “let’s solve this problem” emotion, but real emotion – relationship emotion – stuff that has some KICK to it.
I’m not on board with the “chuck as puppeteer” thing but I really loved the focus of this episode – as well as its intense interest in family – family relationships and their fucked-up-ness. Betrayal, disappointment, all that nasty stuff. I thought Abel absolutely killed it – he acted Misha off the screen, that’s for sure, and – in some cases – dominated the screen against all THREE of the regular co-stars. Which is slightly disconcerting, on the other hand – showing how little JA and JP have been given to play, how on-the-surface the writing has been for them. Once upon a time, such conflicts as Abel was portraying – was all with Sam and Dean, those inner/outer conflicts – I mean, I guess, okay, they’re “elder statesmen” now – but boy you could really feel the contrast. Like: once upon a time, it was Sam and Dean who had these twisty tormenty journeys. Now they’re just … stage managing. HOWEVER. I liked their shamefaced-ness in re: Adam – there seems to be a lot of people on Twitter who don’t give a shit about Adam. I’ve always wanted them to loop back around to this arc. It’s family, it’s messed up, it’s John, it’s unfinished business: give me MORE of that. Also I like it when Sam and Dean feel bad and NOT heroic. so. I was very into all of this.
It was so GOOD to hear the off-screen flap of angel’s wings again. Dammit, why do they stop doing all the things that are GOOD?
I loved the scene between the brothers in re: Eileen – especially Dean’s callout to Lisa and Ben – and their shared history of having bad relationships. I have missed this kind of REAL callback to the continuum of their lives (not this fake “callback to an OUTTAKE” bullshit like from last week). There was a nice raggedy-ness in that conversation – on both sides – again, the kind of thing I’ve missed in the show.
and I legit laughed out loud at the Achilles heel exchange.
I know this writing team is not beloved, but I thought they did a very good job here – of stripping everything down – especially when you consider how much happened. Rowena! Donatello! etc. It felt very calm and focused, not too pumped up, not trying too hard.
I am so sick of the bunker I want to claw my eyes out.
//I loved the scene between the brothers in re: Eileen – especially Dean’s callout to Lisa and Ben – and their shared history of having bad relationships. I have missed this kind of REAL callback to the continuum of their lives//
When Dean mentioned having tried the family thing before, I almost couldn’t believe it. When has Dean ever mentioned or referred to Lisa and Ben since Season 6? I loved loved that. The Lisa storyline was one of my favorites, even if it was derailed rather abruptly and tied up kinda sloppily. (As a sidetone, I always wondered how much of their lives Sam and Dean shared with Mary when she came back. Did Dean tell her he went to Hell? That he got out of the life for a year?).
I also find it interesting to think about Sam being in a romantic relationship with a hunter. In the past, his longest relationships were with civilians who were completely in the dark. Sam never shared one word with Jessica or Amelia about hunting or his upbringing. The only exception I can really think of is Ruby, but she was a demon and their relationship was different anyway.
Fortune –
// When Dean mentioned having tried the family thing before, I almost couldn’t believe it. When has Dean ever mentioned or referred to Lisa and Ben since Season 6? //
I know!! The only reference EVER since Season 6, was when Sam made the joke about dating someone “bendy” in Season 9. Dean had been so forbidding about never talking about Lisa and Ben again. So yeah … it was thrilling. I never liked the wishy-washy copout (in my opinion) of how Castiel wiped Lisa and Ben’s memories – he should have refused. But this is old territory. The writers had written themselves into a corner – they didn’t know how to get out of it. They wanted the arc done. (imo).
I wish they would write themselves into a corner more often. When you push an arc to its furthest extent – you get all this great stuff! This is why I like Amelia. Even though I don’t like the lemon haze.
PUSH them into unfamiliar territory and then let’s just sit back and see what they do. See how they get out of it.
With THIS bunch of writers, they’d just toss in some spellwork or something- take the easiest choice. That Lisa arc was a difficult one – beautifully played by the whole family trio – and made such internal sense – it was real growth, and pain, and Dean literally becoming his father, without even meaning to. Amazing.
This is my thing about these romantic partners who come in – and they so rarely do (and that’s a good thing) – when they DO come in, they MUST reveal something about Sam, or Dean, or their relationship. Otherwise, get outta here. This is why Amelia was good. Look at how much we learned about Sam through her arc – look at how much we learned about DEAN through her – and how much we learned about their relationship!
This is what (so far) has been missing with Eileen – and I have no trust in the team over there to explore this. I mean, look at how they killed her off.
I want them to commit to writing themselves into corners, and then having the characters have to try to flail themselves out of it. That’s when you get drama, high stakes.
// As a sidetone, I always wondered how much of their lives Sam and Dean shared with Mary when she came back. Did Dean tell her he went to Hell? That he got out of the life for a year? //
and this just makes me mourn the whole Mary thing and how much they botched it up. Terrible.
// I also find it interesting to think about Sam being in a romantic relationship with a hunter. //
Yes. When he said to her in Into the Mystic – “give a call if you just want to hang out …”
Sam? Hang out? with a girl? This is why Eileen became important (to me anyway). Because of what she revealed about Sam – because of how she somehow showed that Sam was changing – just by virtue of entering into his life – we got to see how much he had changed, how maybe he was continuing to change, in ways that weren’t quite under his control.
That’s the vibe I really miss from this show.
Pat and Sheila- I agree with both of you! I was pleasantly surprised by this episode! I really liked the specific things that happened in this episode, I liked what Abel did as Adam/Michael, I liked his exchange with Lillith, I liked the tension between Dean and Cas, I liked that ring of fire to hold an Archangel and Sam and Dean walking in full of purpose and terror! So good!
On the flip side, what continues to not work for me is just like the whole premise of the season. I do not think God as Big Bad is working because he honestly, has not done much since letting everything out of Hell. As the episode went on it felt more and more like this is just Sam and Dean looking for revenge, they don’t like how their life turned out, they blame God and now they are going to get even. There is no world to save, there is no bigger purpose besides these guys are pissed at God, and that just seems like a lame ending. I felt like they were working hard to make God seem like a threat in the opening surrounded by what I assume are dead people, but again this is GOD, fire and brimstone, apocalypses, a few dead people in casino just does not feel that threatening. Castiel full of Leviathan juice was more menacing.
Pat- I so agree with you about death becoming a joke on the show. I’m not sure when Sam and Dean are going to get the memo to stop trying to save people because, honestly besides Eileen, everyone seems a lot happier when they’re dead! And since they have their angel buddy and unlimited spells they can just visit these dead people whenever they want and have a nice chat.
I am disappointed that Rowena didn’t redecorate Hell, I feel like her Hell would have been more glamorous! Remember when Hell was a giant like DMV line? Why must they keep using the same tired set? I miss those early seasons when big concepts like Hell and archangels were left to our imaginations.
// I liked that ring of fire to hold an Archangel and Sam and Dean walking in full of purpose and terror! So good! //
That moment was fantastic!
// I do not think God as Big Bad is working because he honestly, has not done much since letting everything out of Hell. As the episode went on it felt more and more like this is just Sam and Dean looking for revenge, they don’t like how their life turned out, they blame God and now they are going to get even. //
This is a really interesting point and I completely agree with you.
The whole idea behind Chuck as God is not yielding any interesting results. If there are a couple of interesting choices to be made, this team goes for … something else entirely, which is not at ALL interesting to ANYone. (BMOL.)
so Chuck being lackadaisacal at a slot machine … I mean … okay?
Some Big Bad though. There’s no sense of threat – like the brothers aren’t threatened. Shouldn’t we be feeling that they are in imminent danger somehow?
// Remember when Hell was a giant like DMV line? Why must they keep using the same tired set? I miss those early seasons when big concepts like Hell and archangels were left to our imaginations.//
Yes. It’s all become just so literal.
I laughed out loud when Castiel said “The bunker’s warding is intact.”
Do they think we’re dumbbells out here? What CAN’T get into that joint at this point?
Ha! As if the entire British Men of Letters and everyone else hasn’t stormed in over the past few years! A wraith made it in during Mary’s horrible funeral last year. Even sketchy Russian guy was brought in last week. I feel kinda bad for Abaddon now, because when we first met her in Season 8 (in the episode with Henry Winchester) she was trying to get into the Bunker and couldn’t. I bet she wouldn’t have a problem now.
“horrible funeral” lol
I wish I could block it out! (except for the part when Dean goes off and cries alone.)
There was quite a bit I really liked about this episode. Also quite a bit I didn’t. The “biggest” moment that had my twitter feed blowing up with rejoicing…..Rowena’s reveal…..literally had me rolling my eyes.
Jake Abel was PHENOMENAL in this episode. He absolutely blew me away with the switching back and forth between Adam and Michael. I loved the dynamic between them, an actual partnership formed in exile. I only wish there had been more family dynamic scenes between Adam and the Winchester’s instead of so much time with Cas, but that unfortunately is par for the course for the show now.
Donatello channeling Chuck was also amazing. I loved all the scenes with Donatello, and Keith Szarabajka was incredible.
What I didn’t like…..and I’ll echo Pat on this one…..I am sick to death of their being a spell for EVERYTHING. I don’t like the “Sam is a witch” storyline or how Dean is totally ok with it. Remember how many times Dean has made the statement “ I hate witches”??
Now he’s chill about Sam casting spells, he’s chill about Sam having a wound in his shoulder that connects him to God, and is causing him to have visions again. But what is show focused on and making one of their main plot points and conflict focuses? Dean and Cas had a fight. Dean is being mean and Cas is suffering. When Rowena sent Sam out of the room to fetch a drink, so that “Auntie Rowena” could give advice for them to fix it, I wanted to throw something at the tv.
Since when can an archangel snap his fingers and open a doorway to another place? Lucifer and Gabriel couldn’t do that. Is it supposed to be because Michael is the oldest son? Remember when the characters used to have to put in a lot of time and effort to accomplish things and the accomplishing would often cost them something dear? (Dean having to chop one of his best friends head off so that he could get Sam out of purgatory for example) Everything is so convenient now. A spell, a nephilim, a sudden appearance of exactly who they need to accomplish their goal.
On the flip side of my irritation about a door to Purgatory oh so conveniently opening…my excitement about a return to purgatory is off the charts. Purgatory was one of my favorite things about season 8. I only hope this current writing team will do it justice.
// I only wish there had been more family dynamic scenes between Adam and the Winchester’s instead of so much time with Cas, but that unfortunately is par for the course for the show now. //
Agreed. I’ve lost track of Cas and why Dean is mad at him – is it still Jack/Mary? Like: this arc is only meaningful to Destiel people, it has no resonance beyond that section of the fandom. So the whole “you boys need to work it out” thing just felt … empty. Its not a FULL conflict – the way it has been in the past – one that dominates the story – like Dean and Sam in Season 9, or, hell, Season 8 – where they just could not connect, and it was all fraught with tension, seeping into every single scene. Or when they started to wonder if Cas was working against them back in the day – now THAT was a real CONFLICT.
If that’s what they want with Cas and Dean – they’re failing to create it. It feels pandering – like, they’re just artifically “holding off” on an apology scene – with yet another “you’re family” type dialogue – and the Destiel shippers will be happy – but it’s really just a bone tossed their way. It’s so tiresome.
// Remember when the characters used to have to put in a lot of time and effort to accomplish things and the accomplishing would often cost them something dear? (Dean having to chop one of his best friends head off so that he could get Sam out of purgatory for example) Everything is so convenient now. A spell, a nephilim, a sudden appearance of exactly who they need to accomplish their goal. //
I know. It makes me so sad. By relying on spells, they lower the stakes for the story.
I’m excited for purgatory too.
I thought Jake Abel did well for himself, and so did the actor playing Donatello when he had to channel Chuck. I could hear Rob Benedict’s smarminess in his delivery.
Dean was wearing a jean jacket throughout most of the episode – until they were going to hell, when I can only assume that he said, “Welp, goin to hell, better put on another layer” because then he had a black jacket OVER his jean jacket, which absolutely cracked me up.
I was pretty hesitant about New Lilith in the episode where she was introduced, but I kind of loved her here. The way she delivered her lines reminded me more of a New Ruby than a New Lilith, but at least she had some personality, some spark. Are we to believe that she’s gone for good now, or will Chuck just re-resurrect her? That yellow beret was nonsensical, and I kind of loved it for that reason alone.
Rowena’s “Sam, go get me a drink so I can throw a bone to the Destiel shippers” thing was absolutely loathsome to me. I feel like 50% of the last three seasons has been “Sam go get me a drink – you know, offscreen, away from here.” What are Dean and Cas even fighting about?? This entire conflict feels so manufactured to me. Remember in season 11 when Cas literally said yes to the devil, and Lucifer almost murdered Sam using Castiel’s body as a vessel, and Dean responded with, “No worries, you’re family”??? If he can forgive that, he should be able to forgive whatever happened at the end of season 14 that was so insignificant that I have literally already forgotten what it was. Either that, or give us a real CONFLICT that’s worth fighting about!
// because then he had a black jacket OVER his jean jacket, which absolutely cracked me up. //
lol!! I noticed this too!
I am also enjoying new Lilith. She’s having fun with it.
// I feel like 50% of the last three seasons has been “Sam go get me a drink – you know, offscreen, away from here.” What are Dean and Cas even fighting about?? This entire conflict feels so manufactured to me. //
God, me too. I’m with you. I don’t even know what they’re fighting about. Is it still Cas not telling Dean that Jack killed a snake? Because … wow. That’s pretty silly and phony. And also: we’ve seen it all before. Castiel is just awful, I’m sorry, all he does is make bad choices, stupid choices – and … can someone explain to me because I got bored 3 years ago and stopped paying attention:
WHAT IS he? Is he an angel?
Can he not fly anymore?
Does he “live” with stolen grace?
What IS he? What are his powers?
He can touch Michael’s head and show him the truth … so okay that’s powerful … but what else? He can’t fly, or teleport, he needs to drive a car, and knock on doors?
it’s just all so ARBITRARY.
Like I said above – hearing the off-screen flap of Michael’s wings as he arrived made me so happy – I miss hearing that sound, I miss angels being “other” and frightening – and I love that effect. Castiel is just useless.
// he should be able to forgive whatever happened at the end of season 14 that was so insignificant that I have literally already forgotten what it was. Either that, or give us a real CONFLICT that’s worth fighting about!//
I am so with you on this.
“Like I said above – hearing the off-screen flap of Michael’s wings as he arrived made me so happy – I miss hearing that sound, I miss angels being “other” and frightening – and I love that effect. Castiel is just useless.”
OK, WHAT?!! I must not have noticed that Michael could fly or I just didn’t pay attention to it, but their complete inability to be consistent with world building is so frustrating. I was under the impression that none of the angels could fly since Heaven was closed, or whatever, after that whole Metatron debacle. Which, Ok, fine, but WHY WOULD THAT NOT APPLY TO MICHAEL???? Did they do this with the AU Michael too? I can’t even remember.
The lack of care/attention to the details that make the world of Supernatural real has been incredibly frustrating.
see, I was so excited to hear the sound again that I didn’t even consider all these questions.
I don’t think AU Michael flew – it’s been a long long time since I heard that sound and I don’t have the patience to go back and track it.
Having useless angels wandering around, who cant fly … just seems like a horrible choice. So now we have Castiel bringing in sketchy Russians – and yet at the same time so powerful that he can touch Michael’s head and make Adam/Michael see everything?
Like … as I said elsewhere in this thread:
What IS Castiel?? He’s just a dead vessel walking around making poor choices. I will never understand the appeal of this character – I understand the appeal from Season 4, 5 – but after that? Will never understand.
Jenna-
//Which, Ok, fine, but WHY WOULD THAT NOT APPLY TO MICHAEL???? Did they do this with the AU Michael too? I can’t even remember.//
When Metatron did his spell at the end of Season 8 and cast the angels out of Heaven and caused them to lose their wings, Lucifer and Michael were in the Cage in Hell, so they were unaffected. Lucifer was able to fly and time travel in Season 11. And as far as I know AU Michael was also able to fly.
This is far too complicated and far too long ago for me to retain.
Jenna – it occurs to me – yet again – how much ground they’ve lost with long-time fans like us – who can’t remember what happened in the last 3 years. Nothing STICKS. It’s really quite … amazing.
Sheila, bless you for calling me a long term fan! This show is so insane, I actually only started watching it a few years ago, but man, it. Sucks. You. In. (And my by that I mean Jensen’s face sucks you in). But, you are right, nothing sticks now. Their lack of attention to detail and consistency is largely to blame I feel.
The explanation about angels and flying that Fortune offers above is no doubt correct, but also, it’s pretty convoluted? I don’t remember this ever being explicitly stated in the show, and my own explanation above is based on things I read on Tumblr, not anything I remember from the show.
I think the confusion is compounded by the inconsistency with Castiel’s power as well. Someone was talking about this somewhere on here, and it’s very true. I never know what he is going to be able to do or not do these days. I was shocked he had the power to make Michael see anything b/c he has said his powers are failing now. But this has been going on for ages. I was honestly convinced Cas was actually someone else for most of one recent season b/c he couldn’t heal/bring back that guard Jack accidentally killed. Since when can’t angels do that??? You could tell though, that they NEEDED Jack to feel bad about something and so they needed Cas to NOT be able to fix it. They don’t care what they break as long as they get to point B in the story.
// I actually only started watching it a few years ago, but man, it. Sucks. You. In. //
Very true.
It’s like once Heaven became a glorified Amway-type operation – the show lost a lot of JUICE. They should have realized that continuing to have a corporate environment for Heaven compromised the strange-ness that the angels brought with them. I loved that you never knew what the angels were going to do – that they were unpredictable – and when they got a taste of freedom, they went CRAZY, like Balthazar did.
Heaven has long outlasted its usefulness – and … is anyone even fighting for it anymore? Is it open for business? Does it matter?
Nothing matters anymore. lol
Castiel has his grace back (since Season 10’s Book of the Damned with Don Quixote and Metatron in the library), he is still technically an angel, but he has not been able to fly or time travel since the end of Season 8 (when Metatron cast the angels from Heaven). Other than that, his powers seem pretty arbitrary. He was too weak to heal someone at the beginning of this season (“my powers are failing”), but he was strong enough to kill a juiced-up Belphegor in the same episode, so it really seems to depend on what the writers need him to do.
It’s so thrilling to go back to earlier seasons when Cas was actually useful. Like in Season 6 Mommy Dearest when he scans the whole town for Eve in half a second, or Season 8 when he flies off to Egypt to get ingredients for Kevin’s demon spell. Now he has to DRIVE and it is kinda pathetic.
// He was too weak to heal someone at the beginning of this season (“my powers are failing”), but he was strong enough to kill a juiced-up Belphegor in the same episode, so it really seems to depend on what the writers need him to do. //
Yes, and I cannot stand this.
Back in the day when Castiel first arrived – they were very aware of how careful they needed to be with how they “used” him – because his powers were so (seemingly) great he could obliterate the whole show. If someone can just come in and snap his fingers and make everything right – or wrong – then where’s the tension? It was a constant issue, with keeping Castiel powered down as much as possible. Angel warding, etc. It was very calculated, strategic, and thought out.
This team isn’t up for that anymore.
I mean, they are ADDICTED to Rowena, queen of the easy fix.
I think at the end of the day, the two things that really wrecked the fabric of this show are:
1. The bunker
2. Rowena
I get a kick out of the lacuna in Dean’s knowledge. I was watching Baby last week and Dean knew that the quote “God helps those who helps themselves” came from Aesop (or earlier). But he doesn’t know what an Achilles’ heel is? The perils of being an autodidact, I suppose.
A good episode – Adam was (finally) a great character returned to meaningful action. Along with the SPN universe Michael.
It was good to see blood needed for a spell (despite the “there’s a spell for everything”). It felt like a cheat to have Cas heal it so quickly, that should nullify a spell. I was glad that the guards to the throne of Hell kicked S&D&C’s butts easily – it’s annoying when everyone loses to them in a simple fist fight. And why did they only come with fists? Where was the meticulous planning? It lowers the stakes when we don’t get to see Sam and Dean preparing for a serious battle. As one would expect when going into Hell to open the cage.
Donatello’s “I need bourbon” could have used an “I support that” from Dean.
Returning to Baby, there was a scene where Sam was asking Dean if he didn’t want “something, maybe with a hunter, someone who understands the life.”Sam clearly did. I hope the payoff with Eileen will be something powerful for Sam, pain or other. That relationship ought to be a big deal. Fingers crossed. I suspect others have pointed back to that scene – sorry if I’m repeating.
Mutecypher – “Baby” was Season 11, right? So was “Into the Mystic” – with Eileen, and all the conversations about “what do we do after” and “let me hide away this pamphlet about a retirement community” … as well as Amara and Dean being drawn to her. it felt like they were planting seeds. Especially in re: Sam. There was a very interesting conflict in that ep between Sam and Dean about “the job” and their prospects and mortality – and Eileen – since she showed up – took on importance (in many of our minds). It all felt very deliberate. This is, of course, what we are missing in recent seasons – they lost all this ground – they didn’t realize what they had – and decided to just rebuild the show and try to develop peripheral characters and add a bunch of teenagers to the mix. Ugh. But yes – that conversation in Baby is like planting a seed. They used to know how to plant seeds and then REMEMBER THEY HAD PLANTED A SEED. That doesn’t seem to be the case anymore.
the Achilles heel moment was great. a good old-fashioned ba-dum-ching. Silly but funny! I don’t look for consistency the way you mention here. I’m an autodidact, so yeah, you remember what you remember, there’s no rhyme or reason to what sticks.
// Donatello’s “I need bourbon” could have used an “I support that” from Dean. //
No no no! That exchange is for Melanie alone!
Donatello was great – so funny – although (similarly to many other characters) I have lost the thread with who he is, his status, and all the rest. This is on me, I realize. But it didn’t used to be the case in earlier seasons – I could always keep track of the side characters and where they were and what their status was even when they weren’t onscreen.
and yeah … I admit I don’t have faith on this team to nail any kind of landing. Having Eileen tiptoe naked out of a scented tub was … disheartening.
I lack trust. In general. lol
//No no no! That exchange is for Melanie alone!//
Noted, silly me.
Ah, I was about to ask what you thought of the new Lilith, but I see that was talked about above. I liked that she wasn’t quite a quippy Buffyesque character. She was a bit closer to the flirty/aspergery Villanelle from Killing Eve. At least that’s how I experienced her. I liked that choice, and I’m bummed they brought her back at all just to kill her so quickly. Although, maybe Michael just sent her to the corn field? not sure.
My lack of trust doesn’t extend to real life. Let’s count my broken hearts(though none recently). But I definitely don’t have a lot of trust for the writers here.
I’m slightly confused by bringing Lilith back – and yeah then killing her again – and … what are they DOING – but I do think this young actress is doing a great job (in her first episode too). She seems to get the style and is having fun with it.
But the main issue is that the people over there don’t seem to remember the things so meticulously set up in earlier seasons (The whole djinn thing in the recent episode is a perfect example – it’s like they’ve never watched the show. It’s just so FRUSTRATING.)
//I get a kick out of the lacuna in Dean’s knowledge. I was watching Baby last week and Dean knew that the quote “God helps those who helps themselves” came from Aesop (or earlier). But he doesn’t know what an Achilles’ heel is? The perils of being an autodidact, I suppose.//
Funny enough, Dean knew what is was back in Season 5, when he reunited with Sam after seeing a glimpse of the future: “Maybe we are each others Achilles Heel. Maybe they will find a way to use us against each other…I don’t know. I just know that we are all we’ve got.”
But I did laugh, and I’ll take comedy where I can get it.
Did they go to the Grand Canyon or didn’t they? Does Dean know what an Achilles’ heel is or doesn’t he?
I blame Chuck for the confusion.
But not the laughs. I guess we should give the writers credit for that. And the confusion (sigh).
It’s so complicated.
I really enjoyed this episode. Adam/Michael was the breath of fresh air this show needed! His acting was amazing. I particularly enjoyed how they equally shared the body of Adam, in as much, and in Dean’s word, ‘Michael lets you out’ or something along those lines. This is like a foreign concept because at this point in time most of the angels have been dicks and especially alternative Michael. But this Adam/Michael have something that is unique, they were both locked in the cage together and had only each other. Adam’s humanness is something Michael begins to see and kind of relate too even if he doesn’t totally get it, he still has a deep affection and attachment to Adam. Michael is, in how I see it, the true meaning of what God really is meant to be. A part of us. Now I don’t know if that is what the writer’s really intended, or it’s just my own personal reading of it, but I really felt it had a lot of depth. As for the whole ‘Achilles heel’ thing in this episode, I see it as a foreshadowing, When Sam says to Dean, ‘God has an Achilles heel’, it is foreshadowing that Sam has an Achilles heel and that Achilles heel is Eileen. Eileen was brought back because she was a way for Chuck to get to Sam. Sorry if this is worded badly, getting late at night here in Australia.
Carolynne:
// Michael is, in how I see it, the true meaning of what God really is meant to be. A part of us. Now I don’t know if that is what the writer’s really intended, or it’s just my own personal reading of it, but I really felt it had a lot of depth. //
Wow. I am really enjoying this perspective of yours. I hadn’t thought of it that way – but you’re right.
// it is foreshadowing that Sam has an Achilles heel and that Achilles heel is Eileen. Eileen was brought back because she was a way for Chuck to get to Sam. //
Yes. This is definitely what that was about.
I wish I’d saved this one until I was fresh. Instead I’m coming off of a string that I honestly had no sense of what I should care about or what mattered at all, out of which all I can really remember is Sergei? Really? Sergei??
I really liked it, and more to the point, i really didn’t not like it. Liked the upgraded throne room. Loved Adam and Michael, the way they talked so easily and distinctly to each other. There was a relaxed way that Jake Abel played the characters – it was obvious who was who, they were both so clearly drawn, but neither felt hammy in the way possessions often do on this show. I believed that they had worked out this relationship over (converts earth time into dog years) like, over 1000 years together? The comment that they were all each other had was a nice, lightly skimming callback to Dean’s similar comment to Mary – the Impala and Sam and Dean. The Cage and Adam and Michael.
Wished there were something more substantial going on with the Rowena scenes, but I found myself mostly just focusing on her gold eyeliner. I’m tired of the show letting S&D off the hook for their uncomfortable decisions – Sam didn’t need to be explicitly absolved for killing Rowena. I’d rather he continue to dwell on it.
That said, she makes an entertaining Queen of Hell and I think the show would have benefitted from skipping Asmodeus+ and just killing her and installing her 2 1/2 years ago. Demons in tight black tshirts rather than corporate wear would have been a fun changeup, as long as Hell didn’t become some relationship therapist’s office.
I liked Eileen, I like the idea of her unwillingly compromising Sam. I like her having her own networks and contacts and goals and competence. I’ve liked watching Dean work out how he feels about her, from the overly enthusiastic “I knew I liked you, gotta go!!” to this more sincere attempt to work out with Sam how she might fit into their lives.