If you find yourself in a red and white public bathroom …

6 Responses to If you find yourself in a red and white public bathroom …

1. Biff Dorsey says:

   November 11, 2024 at 6:48 pm

   Both house Faustian bargains.

   Reply
   • sheila says:

     November 11, 2024 at 10:12 pm

     yeah nothing good goes on there.

     Reply
2. nighthawk bastard says:

   November 12, 2024 at 5:21 am

   I saw this in the cinema and thought of you, and pointed out the bathroom thing to my partner. What did you think of the film?

   Reply
   • sheila says:

     November 12, 2024 at 7:24 am

     Hi nighthawk! Hope you are doing well, or as well as can be expected.

     I think the carpet in the hallway of the TV studio was like the carpet in The Shining – there were probably more nods but the bathroom was just so obvious!

     I’m still thinking about the film. I had heard so much about how “gross” it was – and it was, kind of – but to me the philosophical questions – the Dorian Gray-ness of it all – was what was so interesting.

     I am a little confused hearing this called a “feminist” film. I don’t find it be particularly feminist – at least not in the way I understand feminism. (and that’s fine. It doesn’t need to be feminist to have value.) To me, it’s a manifestation of misogyny – or internalized misogyny – which I suppose is feminist? But … Demi Moore’s character “buys the lie” – not every woman does. She truly values herself only through how young she looks, because youth is a capitalist asset. This, to me, is not particularly feminist – although pointing it out, I suppose, highlights what a patriarchal male-dominated system does to women. Not sure. To me, it’s a portrait of a woman who values all the wrong things in life. she has no inner life, she’s sacrificed herself – already – when the film starts – for the appearance of youth. Whether or not “the substance” came into her life, she was going to have a hard time!!

     I think my favorite scene was when she was getting ready to go on her date, and she wore that tiny red dress and had an existential crisis staring at herself in the mirror – her lipstick was too red, she was “trying too hard”, etc. – and I really related to this. Inside I feel like I am perpetually 26, 27 years old. I definitely don’t think at some point we need to “grow up” – like I dress pretty much the same way I dressed since I was 10 years old. Peppermint Patty + riot grrrl is my aesthetic.

     But there is sometimes that disconnect – when I suddenly see myself from the outside – or I wonder what someone’s first impression of me would be – and suddenly all this old old insecurity comes up – like high school insecurity – but it’s even worse because I am fully grown. There is a point when you stop really recognizing yourself in the mirror. My mother – who is not a vain woman – and has never tried to act younger than she is – said to me once that sometimes she gets a quick glimpse of herself in the mirror and is startled like, “who is that old woman?”

     So I really liked how Demi looked at herself in the mirror and almost split into two. she didn’t know how to dress for the date, and look her age – because (imo) she has valued all the wrong things in her life (like outward appearance, like looking young).

     I don’t know – I’m still thinking about it. I’m not 100% on any of these thoughts – I’m open to persuasion.

     You? How did you feel about it?

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     • nighthawk bastard says:

       November 12, 2024 at 4:56 pm

       Thanks Sheila– I’m reasonably well over here in the UK. Hope that you are holding up OK.

       I found it really refreshing. I’ve been thinking about it a lot. I kind of get why it’s seen as a ‘feminist film’– especially as every film/book that has the audacity to be about women, or the experience of womanhood in any way, ends up being called a ‘feminist film’.

       Yes– Demi Moore’s character had such a sad little empty life. Like… she was doomed either way. That lady had literally nobody. It played out a bit like a nasty fable or a cautionary tale about valuing the wrong things, but parts of it also struck me as deeply tragic. The scene where she’s getting dressed for the date was my favourite in the film– it really captured that dysmorphic experience of having looked at yourself for so long that you can’t ‘see’ yourself any more, not as you really are.

       I didn’t care for the final few scenes. For me the film could have ended when she woke up again as the ‘monster’ and still tried to go through the motions of getting dressed up, putting earrings in… again. Tragic. People in the cinema were laughing. I thought it was incredibly sad. Everything after that felt a bit gratuitous.

       I don’t know what I think of all of it either. As you say, the problem wasn’t necessarily just patriarchal expectations/the beauty standard or whatever. Obviously expectations are a big part of it– and ‘pretty privilege’ is a thing– but Demi Moore’s character bought it. She played the game all the way to the end. She was complicit.

       Anyway the most horrific scene in the film was obviously Dennis Quaid eating shrimp. Also Riot Grrl / Peppermint Patty aesthetic sounds fantastic.

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       • sheila says:

         November 13, 2024 at 7:20 am

         In re: the end – I feel like the inventiveness kind of tapered off and the film leaned too heavily on Carrie’s famous ending – so there was no surprise left. I really have no problem with long movies – I adored The Brutalist and it was 4 hours long, with an intermission! But I think Substance would have benefitted from a good half-hour being chopped off. I think the film also benefited (conversely) from being so much about repetition and accumulation – we needed to see the progression of the back and forth, but I still think it would have benefited from some serious trimming – it wouldn’t have compromised the whole at all.

         // nasty fable or a cautionary tale about valuing the wrong things //

         Yes, I agree. That’s a good way to look at it.

         and – side note – those scenes with the two of them piled on top of each other, totally naked – non-sexually naked – must have been incredibly weird to shoot. I loved that their nakedness was not presented in a prurient way – and when the camera WAS prurient (like with Margaret Qualley’s ridiculous work-out show – Pump It Up? I think it was called) – it was clearly with a point.

         But I was so admiring of both actresses – a lot of times actresses are called “brave” for weird reasons – like not wearing makeup or whatever. This, to me, is just a commentary on the sickness of pop culture right now – how manufactured much of it seems. If you go back to the 70s and watch, say, Diane Keaton – her teeth aren’t whitened, she is not glamorous – and yet she was, along with Julie Christie – gorgeous but in a very real way – the biggest movie star and leading lady in the world. Our beauty standards have gotten so much more rigid. (Tina Fey talks about this in her memoir!)

         I think, though, that on some level the film AGREES with the view that older women are grotesque. I suppose this, too, could be seen as a commentary on how these awful views are internalized by women – even if it hurts them. I totally understand that kind of ambivalence – even though I have worked so hard to honestly not give a shit about those pressures.

         I’m psyched for Demi Moore – so often in her career, her body was the subject. She worked that way. GI Jane and Striptease come to mind – she was, for about a year, the highest paid actress in Hollywood. It didn’t last long. and her career sort of stagnated. I always liked her though – I still remember her doing a cartwheel – 7 months pregnant – on Letterman. lol Again, her body was so central to what she did as an actress. and The Substance sort of reiterates all that – she was perfect for the role.

         and I’m a huge Margaret Qualley fan. I feel like there had to be so much trust between these two actresses – and the director – and the crew – to create the kind of safe space where the two of them could walk around – roll around – naked – literally on top of each other – totally naked – shoving needles into each others arms, etc. – and nOT have it look like a twisted male fantasy.

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