I was sick of looking at Dean’s wonk-eye.
I won’t have a chance to watch tonight, or maybe even tomorrow. Crazy times, back-to-back stuff for the next couple of days. But carry on, and I will have a lot of fun catching up.
Go, episode 200!
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First impression – that was a whole lot better than I expected. The Samulet! That cameo! No one does meta like Spn. JA’s reactions were priceless. And yes I cried at the end!
I’m not going to spoil my favorite moment for the left coast viewers, except to say that it was only a couple lines, and it still managed to top Braveheart Dean for me.
Natalie – I was totally thinking Braveheart Dean during that scene. This was pretty fun. Not staying up for the west coast feed, will have to catch up with everyone tomorrow or Thurs, after everyone gets a chance to see it. I was good and didn’t spoil the surprise. ;)
I did not just squeal like a teenage fan girl at that very last scene…..nope didn’t do it. :-)
Baby so shiny, FINALLY!
There will be such punishment for all the juiciness of this episode. What’s the line from Be My Baby, “for every kiss you give me, I’ll give you three?” Sam and Dean won’t be getting 3 kisses for this. They will suffer for the pleasure we had tonight. Gashes and contusions and soul rending. So love it even more because of the price they’ll pay for us getting what we wanted.
And wasn’t that a gorgeous version of “Carry on My Wayward Son?”
They had me at Gordon Lightfoot.
YES. Me too!
Helena, they had me at St Alphonso’s Pancake Breakfast. My favourite musician…referenced in this episode of all episodes!
It’s gonna take me a good while to get myself together to be honest….a lot of feelings are being felt right now. Aside from St Alphonso, I am grateful for some exceptional actresses, some lovely bits of humour, and Sam and Dean looking at Mary at the end. But it’s been a long road so far and I don’t know how soon I am gonna be able to rewatch it without disintegrating.
Jessie – I know, Zappa reference – toooo much!!
I am a slow processor of things (which makes my film criticism work sometimes very challenging when I have to formulate an opinion IMMEDIATELY following seeing something).
I don’t immediately rush to the Web or Twitter to commiserate – I sort of have to hole up with myself for a while. Especially an episode like this one, so palpably and nakedly emotional.
I’ve seen it a couple of times now, and it’s holding together for me. It’s still packing a punch. So. It’s one of THOSE episodes.
Maybe not AS nakedly emotional as Very Supernatural Christmas – but definitely in that on-the-verge-of-being-too-explicit wheelhouse.
It spoke out the subtext. Speaking of which …
I also loved the moment when Sam was singing “A Single Man Tear” (dying) – and the lyrics were literally an ODE TO DEAN – and what’s Dean doing? Racing around backstage, chasing down some phantom coming out of the woodwork. So it had that explicit quality – but (in my opinion) it would have been way too much if Dean had had to sit there and listen to the praise of him, and own it, and be all “OMG thank you so much” or whatever else.
I mean, I’m thinking of some of the fan fiction I’ve read (speaking of which) – which pretty much reads exactly like “A Single Man Tear.” It doesn’t appeal to me at all, way too sentimental for me, and totally lacking in TENSION (which is what creates Drama) although I understand where it’s coming from.
So there it all is: in that song. The fan’s feelings about Dean. How they talk about Dean.
And Dean is literally flying through the air holding a wooden stake in the background.
hahahahaha
as you may be able to tell my critical/functional brain is offline at the moment.
Jessie, that’s hilarious. Now, a Zappa-esque High School Musical would have been … too much for my brain to handle.
As was the whole episode. Just a giant fruit basket for fans. Every time I thought ‘OK, that puts the tin lid on it for me (eg the ‘demon smoke’- twice! the onstage headlights special effects, etc etc) another tin lid would appear.
The Winchesters brought together not by hunting but by the healing power of musical theatre? I’ll buy it, just this once.My only disappointment? No dancing. And no teapots. Mutecypher, we may have to wait for the 300th episode.
The Samulet. I’m hoping it’s spelled Psamulet, and was made by a Psammead.
The demon smoke!!
And the “oohs” and “ahhs” of the audience. That was what really got to me.
Like the moment in Shakespeare in Love, when she gets “stabbed” and blood flows out of her in red silk scarves and the audience all gasps.
Goosebumps.
Yes: the healing qualities of musical theatre. Or theatre in general!!
Put on your ponchos!
Right about the close of the “Then”, with the shot of white page and “by Eric Kripke”–I was gone. I was not at all sure about the premise, but I decided that I was going to enjoy the show right there. Marie and her stage manager were a great team, and I enjoyed all the in-jokes and call backs and the “actually, I’m just here for the theater credit” moments.
I’ll admit to a single (womanly) tear at the end with the song and the Winchesters’ reaction shots.
And like you, Jessie, I immediately felt the need to watch it over again, but have not yet succumbed.
I watched it twice. As soon as it was done the first time I immediately started it over and watched it again. Still can’t get much past the “feels” to actually be able to write about my thoughts.
I will say that the young actresses in this episode…especially the two leads were phenomenal.
Agree that was one of the most beautiful renditions of “Carry On My Wayward Son” that I have ever heard.
So. Um. That episode was kinda…awesome.
May for the WIN with that gif!!
Helena –
There better be dancing teapots in the 300th episode.
Among all the larger pleasures, I also liked the cuts to the audience enjoying the musical. It enriched the experience to imagine the students’ friends and relatives watching the show and nodding at little moments in the production.
Totally agree that those cuts to the audience were so wonderful. The look on the one woman’s face as Castiel sang her little song. It was so touching to me.
I was amazed that I never read any hints, anywhere, of a surprise appearance. I just gotta say, they a pretty good job with the sets for the play – one of my biggest beefs when high school musicals are shown on tv is the over top sets that no high school would have the budget for. I loved the demon smoke, I’m going to have to show this episode to our tech guy/stage manager. We run a children’s musical theatre company (cast & tech all kids) and I could just imagine someone chasing ghosts/supernatural beings on the stage during one of our productions. (still cracking up at the thought) Those girls had really lovely voices. I can still hear in my head those clear sweet voices singing Wayward Son.
Hope Sheila gets a chance to watch soon!
Kim – thanks! Finally watched!
I loved the demon smoke too. And the demon mask for Yellow Eyes?
Dying.
I ran across this site via your genius commentary “Breaking Down the Schtick: JA…” I loved how you voiced what I too had noticed , but couldn’t quite express about Jensen Ackles allowing himself to be objectified like a woman and the writers and directors choice to go there. Well this episode has so much wonderfulness, but I just can’t move on to the main story without stopping to drool, I mean dwell, for a moment on the Sundown/Dean/Baby scene. First of all, not all us fans are teen, tumbler-dwelling, slash-loving fangirls. This was a love letter to ALL the fans and thank you for that scene. For those of us of “a certain age” Gordon Lightfoot’s “Sundown” is the epitome of slow sexy. As the intro chords strum Dean is gently screwing (ok, so I know it was a wrench, but its all the writers’ fault) and then rubs down Baby’s shiny under-the-hood parts. Was it just me or did anyone else have a flash to Dean’s hand rubbing up Anna’s thigh? Next as the words, “you can see her laying back in her satin dress” drift over us in that slow, oh so sexy way the camera pans down Baby’s gleaming black side. Now I am not a car fanatic and normally if JA is walking away I’m not focusing on the scenery, but it was all eyes on Baby in this scene. Let me also say I usually call it the impala because anthropomorphising a car is a man thing, but the writers, directors, camera operators, et al completely succeeded in personifying, objectifying, sexifying that half ton hunk of steel…and she looks damn good in that satin dress. Then the line, “in a room where you do what you don’t confess”, notice how Dean leans into her trunk, then looks out and around as if to make sure they are alone, then lifts the secret false floor to reveal Baby’s hidden treasure, for Dean, the tools of their craft, not all weapons. Ms. O’Malley has such good insights I would love to hear what she has to say about that. When Sam awkwardly interrupts this intimate scene he knows he’s intruded, but Dean allows him to share in the moment a little bit.
Oh, thank you, thank you for this scene. No youtube video of sexy supernatural scenes will be complete without this one in future.
Interestingly enough, in the re-cap to Crossroad Blues, which just went up – and which I wrote before this week’s episode: I talk about one particular shot of the Impala and how it looms into the camera – and what shots like that have signified for the fans over the last 9 years. How those shots are cumulative, how they help us identify with the car, love the car, etc. I’ve been writing about that a lot in all of the re-caps, actually: It goes into overdrive in Season 2, the relaxation and confidence from having being renewed for Season 2.
So yeah, that opening of this week’s episode was the payoff for what they have set up over the last decade.
Especially since we haven’t seen the Impala since the opening of the season. Not really.
Pretty safe bet that it won’t be long before “Fanfiction” is playing on High School stages everywhere. My daughter played a boy in her all girls school production of High School Musical just months after the movie came out. This was very reminiscent for me.
Dean: “You want to piñata this asshat?” More verbing of nouns. There has to be a grammatical term for that – but I can’t seem to find it even with google. Any of the better educated folk know the proper term? Not “gerund” or “nominalization.” I can’t find an antonym for “participle.”
And a reference to Adam and Lucifer, along with the return of our cameo friend. Portents?
//“You want to piñata this asshat?” More verbing of nouns.//
Mutecypher, apparently it’s denominalisation. Or Deanominalisation. Or Demonilisation.
Helena —
You’re crazy it would only be even more perfect. Imagine how much more pep last week’s episode would have had if the diner flashback had been scored to Zomby Woof!
Speaking of music, I noted the return of the dreaded “wacky fun-times organ” motif when they first encountered the play, but I think thye must have just been trolling us because I didn’t notice it pop up again.
the healing power of musical theatre
I initially thought was going to be a Glee parody, but it was so much better!
Barb — I think one of the things that affected me most was that we started with Eric Kripke and finished with him (qua Chuck), giving a nod of love and support. That actually is making me rather misty-eyed just typing it. I don’t even want to watch it again until I have been able to process my feelings via gifs for about three years.
Michelle —
I agree, Marie and Maeve were absolutely perfect. Loved them instantly.
mutecypher —
I agree — the inclusion of the students’ families was an unexpectedly sweet touch — and poncho boy was awesome!
Also, you’re so close — it’s denominalisation :-D
// I noted the return of the dreaded “wacky fun-times organ” motif when they first encountered the play, but I think thye must have just been trolling us because I didn’t notice it pop up again. //
Yes, neither did I – looked for it in my last viewing.
Wacky fun-times organ needs to be stabbed with a wooden stake. For good!
// I don’t even want to watch it again until I have been able to process my feelings via gifs for about three years. //
hahahaha That’s just how I feel. I take time to process stuff!
Melanie, while I agree with Sundown being a great Dean/Baby song here, it’s their more ominous lines that caught me.
“Sometimes, it feels like a sin when I feel like I’m winning when I’m losing again. I’m glad they got this interlude to reconnect because I’m sure it’s gonna get painful again soon.
Kathy – yeah, I thought of that too – even just the lyrics in that opening sequence are not at all “happy fun times.”
Great sound, and also great working-on-car music … but there is that other layer, as always.
//“wacky fun-times organ” //
To quote Charlie, blerg. But yes, never cropped up again. Which makes me think that it was something forced upon them by The Suits and which they dropped (down into the fire-y pit) as as soon as they could.
//Glee parody, but it was so much better!//
I’ve never seen Glee, because Musical Theatre I. Just. Can’t, but I got Rushmore (with slightly less awesome stage props – and that beret, surely Jason Schwarz?) and Season 3 of Slings and Arrows.
I got Rushmore, too – the beret! – as well as the total-immersion-theatre of the production – ponchos under your seat! and yes, Slings and Arrows too (especially the drunk drama teacher) – and also Waiting for Guffman – “leaving a ticket” for this mythical powerful person, etc.
I’m such an “idjit” myself – I didn’t put it together, first viewing, that they were waiting for someone from the “publisher” and of COURSE that would end up being Chuck.
oh yes, the Rushmore beret and glasses!
Kate —
I don’t doubt it’ll get painful again. One of the things that causes me consternation is that we’ve now had what we all said we want — two of them, relatively happy & healthy, driving into the sunset with the goddamn amulet. Perhaps we would be wise to stop here. I don’t know if they’ll give it to us again.
Sentiment isn’t sentimental when it’s your sentiment, right? I think what really got to me was that the episode organised itself around some of the things I care most about in the show: the Sam-Dean relationship, the nature of storytelling, the embedded and embodied history of the show. Kripke rocking up at the end in love and support for the writers and actors who have in a sense been writing their own fanfiction about the show since he left. I turn thirty in a fortnight so I have been watching literally a third of my life. That sense of history and love has been unexpectedly affecting.
// I think what really got to me was that the episode organised itself around some of the things I care most about in the show: the Sam-Dean relationship, the nature of storytelling, the embedded and embodied history of the show. Kripke rocking up at the end in love and support for the writers and actors who have in a sense been writing their own fanfiction about the show since he left. //
Beautifully put.
And man, Jessie, that last shot is exactly what we all were talking about whenever that was – about the perfect END to the series. Fake sunset. Necklace! Brothers on the road.
So yeah. Should be interesting to see where we go from here.
In a way, the whole “necklace” thing was really handled, for me, in this episode. It was acknowledged in a way that took my breath away. I actually don’t need to see the real thing again. I’m okay now.
And that was as explicit as the show has ever gotten: “I don’t need a symbol to remind me how I feel about my brother.”
You know? I don’t know, something shifted for me when he actually said that.
Because, yeah, it’s all about me.
I was leaning toward anti-participle. If a participle collides with its anti-participle, it creates an oxymoron, destroying all intelligent conversation in the area.
Glad that didn’t happen.
Kate, Totally agree about the ominous lines.
“She’s a hard lovin’ woman, got me feelin’ mean
Sometimes I think it’s a shame
When I get feelin’ better when I’m feelin’ no pain”
I looked up the song and interpretations vary from alchoholism, exwife, addiction, to crazy, cheating ex-girlfriend… I’m thinking mark of Cain. I certainly think there are some dark waters running beneath the surface of “good Dean” which were meant to be set aside for this special 200th celebration, but writers couldn’t help a little bit of forshadowing. Its why I love this show.
Kate, Totally agree about the ominous lines.
“She’s a hard lovin’ woman, got me feelin’ mean
Sometimes I think it’s a shame
When I get feelin’ better when I’m feelin’ no pain”
I looked up the song and interpretations vary from alchoholism, exwife, addiction, to crazy, cheating ex-girlfriend… I’m thinking mark of Cain. I certainly think there are some dark waters running beneath the surface of “good Dean” which were meant to be set aside for this special 200th celebration, but writers couldn’t help a little bit of forshadowing. Its why I love this show.
Melanie, I saw elsewhere that when Dean told Sam he was doing okay the line in the background was “but you don’t always say what you really mean”. God, I love this show. :)
I loved it so much. The whole idea of the play bringing in all the characters without cameos by the actors allowed us to see them all without diminishing the emphasis on the brothers. It was masterful. The looks on Sam and Dean’s faces when they first come into the auditorium. The shout-outs to the fandom – ‘samulet’ and Sam teasing Dean about ship names. The other shout-outs: the Harvelle’s sign backstage, the one girl saying, “We should have done The Outsiders”, the quick glimpse of Ash’s mullet, May being the understudy for Jody Mills, Castiel’s sad cellphone song. I loved every minute.
The girls’ rendition of ‘Carry On My Wayward Son’ had me crying. How poignant that the boys’ dead family was promising them peace when they are done. But they’re not done yet…
And a very brief glimpse of arms in the opening where both Dean and Sam are wearing single tee-shirts. Sadly seems to have been a fan gift because by the end they are back in layers. Still. GIFs! Many many pix of Dean walking around that porny car to that sadly beautiful song.
Kate,
“but you don’t always say what you really mean”
Yes, that registered in my head on my first watch thinking that Dean never really says what he really means in response to “Are you OK?” I am particularly thinking about when he came back from Hell and the guilt of having caved in and tortured souls was weighing him down. No accident that this song is singing about sin, shame, etc. If we know Dean he is being eaten up inside by the guilt of things he did as a demon. Sam’s response is so different. Their characters are so well developed. ♥♥♥
Kathy,
“Porny Car”, the impala has a new nickname. And yes, please! Bring on the beautiful pics and gifs.
I wonder how many hours Robbie Thomson spent on tumblr. There were so many great things in this episode that I’m willing to forget that a few things seemed forced – the jerk-bitch exchange, for instance. But the actors make it work, they’re all so good!
I love the drama teacher. She’s such an asshole! « Thruth. Truuuth. » Haha!
Some of my favourite things: Baby oh so shiny! A library scene! The samulet! Ash! Chuck! Dean shaking his head to the music, the sign on the motel room door that with « no smoking » and 200, Jensen Ackles staring right into the camera.
The first time I saw the episode, I laughed a lot, and only shed one very womanly tear – « kick it in the ass », Kim Manners’ catchphrase… gets me every time. Once I had decided that yes, it was a really nice love letter to the fans and that I liked it a lot and rewatched it, I suppose I allowed myself to be really sentimental. Because I cried much more.
The songs are catchy! People looked at me weird when I sang « His name is Sammy, I’m big brother Dean » in the subway. What? No SPN fans around?
Melanie:
//I certainly think there are some dark waters running beneath the surface of “good Dean” //
We should definitely revel in that moment of peace, because it won’t last. Like you, I loved the reconnecting moment with that car, I love that car, and I really don’t like cars. It also happens to be the only moment where Dean wears shorts sleeves and the Mark of Cain is visible.
And when Dean explains to Marie what happened and that he had become a demon, is it me or does he look a little proud when he says « Knight of Hell, Actually »? When Sam’s not around, he certainly doesn’t look that embarrassed.
And even though Sam is the one to save the day – again – in « life » and in « the show » – that has become « life » – we’re reminded he’s on a dark path as well – If he cut his hair, Sam would make a pretty good Dean. At least, that’s my interpretation. So I’m going to put my poncho on and brace myself for the darkness to come.
I loved the Jerk-Bitch exchange, actually. I loved it because of the SYMPHONY of SHIT on JA’s face. He just called a young girl, a child, a bitch, and he didn’t mean to, and it happened automatically – and then she bursts out in this huge smile. It was lovely, I thought.
The drama teacher was SUCH an asshole. I love how they’re rehearsing and she’s sitting there texting. Ha!
and yeah, Dean was definitely bragging that he wasn’t just a regular demon, he was a Knight of Hell. I saw it as multiple things going on. He was trying to own his own story, wrest it back from the hands of these lITTLE GIRLS who think they KNOW SOMETHIN’ ABOUT SOMETHIN’ (to quote Crossroad Blues) … but there was also that element of, “I wasn’t just your everyday demon. I was much much worse.’
although we didn’t really see him as “much worse”. What the hell did he do that was so awful? Bad karaoke, bar fights?
But definitely. It’s only Episode 5. Because it was the 200th episode, they went “this way” – which feels either like a mid-act break, or a finale. Like, this felt like it could conceivably have been the finale of the show. So yeah, dark times ahead!
I say, Bring it!
Too cramped in my schedule now to read thru this awesome thread – can’t wait to catch up with you all.
My one main comment is: Dean looked straight at the camera. He looked at the camera like it was suddenly a Mel Brooks movie.
and consider me DEAD.
My favorite Supernatural is silly Supernatural – wayyy more than deep angst Supernatural — the silliness often unleashes the most profound stuff. The loosey-goosey quality of the silly episode narratives is able to contain all that gigantic operatic emotion the best.
Sam: “what she said …” Dean closing his eyes, nodding.
Too much. Warm fuzzies so intense it was a supernova.
Carry on! (my wayward son?)
Going to work on “Croatoan” in the next week. Because my own little re-cap show here must go on, Season 10 or no. Please join us for Season 2 convo as well!
Will read and reply to all comments when I have time to breathe.
xoxo to all of you!
Per Robbie Thompson several moments were JA improv: Andrew Floyd Webber (and JP did a quick response to it), Dean’s look to the camera, and the bow/curtsey at the end of Act 1 – “I laughed in every single take when (JA) ‘bows’ at the end there. You, sir, are hilarious”
It was really a lot of fun to watch everyone tweeting through the episode, even if it meant I had to rewatch it immediately afterward to pick up so much that I missed. And then again with pause to try and catch things I wondered about – Kudos for seeing the MoC ’cause I looked and didn’t see it. My pauses don’t always grab the right moment.
Sorry, TBD: RT also noted that on his first day in the Writer’s Room he was SO confused by references to the “BM” scene – I love that reference is real!
Okay, “I’m going to Barbra Streisand this bitch.”
Proper Deanominilisation?
Proper Marienominilisation?
Other?
Does this mean there won’t be any epic poetry in the SPN-verse? No Homer Edlund writing The Castiad. No Deante Alighieri writing The Subtextual Comedy. No Edmund Shirley writing The Faerie Dean. Maybe Calliope was upset with how she was treated in the Sandman-verse and decided to go all Saturn in all the ‘verses.
No “I sing of arms and the man with the Mark of Cain on his arm.” How sad.
//Does this mean there won’t be any epic poetry in the SPN-verse//
Knock yourself out, mutecypher, I’m looking forward to your version of Bobbywulf .
Hey all – I’ve been hearing from some people that they are getting 403 error messages when trying to comment.
If that’s been happening to you – could you let me know? gibsongirl@sheilaomalley.com.
I sent a note to my server about it, but want to see if it’s isolated incidents or more widespread.
Thank you!
Yeessssss
Much better than expected. Like a unicorn sitting under a rainbow after the dark and depressing second half of S9. Normally I hate half-assed Greek god and goddess villains and when I saw Calliope I thought, uggghh. Then she spoke to my feelings about fanfiction, “robots… tentacles… in space… I can’t even.”
Calliope’s line reading there was hysterical.
Supernatural’s musical forebears.
Ha!!
I’ve now watched it five (six?) times. I think Dean’s “Smith” when Sam introduces him as his partner is becoming my new “Dean grimly”. The more I hear it, the more it cracks me up.
Mutecypher,
“More verbing of nouns. There has to be a grammatical term for that “. I hate pretentious grammatical terms that think they are too good for the rest of us (yes, Parenthetical Expression, I’m talking to you and your snobby friends, except Onomatopoeia because you, like fezes, are cool and fun to say). I am officially adding “Verbing a Noun” to my list of socially relevant grammatical terms. Thank you Mutecypher.
As for epic poetry you can’t have The Cassiad without The Crowlessy.
Sheila, Kathy, et al,
As for the Mel Brooks camera look there was a flurry of live twitterings on the subject with JA making a point to tell everyone that it was NOT scripted. Now what is that grammatical term for saying the opposite of what you mean for emphasis…? I’m not meaning to diminish JA’s comedic genius in the slightest (“Andrew Floyd Webber” – I nearly choked), but the writers have also proven themselves masters of the schtick. While we’re pondering JA’s considerable comedic talent let me also add that JP does an amazing job of playing straight-man to that, whether scripted or improv. Its part of why they are so good together because the one enhances the other. I’m thinking Hope & Crosby. Can anyone think of a more recent comedy team…?
I actually am not really into backstage stories – Not at this stage of the game. I know! I’m weird! For me, it’s too soon. I like to swim in the fiction for a while before I delve into the reality. Personal preference. :) I realize it’s totally fascinating to most people. This is why I’m not crazy about commentary tracks either – sometimes it’s fun to know HOW things were put together, and I have listened to many of them, especially when I am doing research – but a lot of times I prefer to NOT know too much of that stuff. It’s why I don’t watch a lot of convention footage either. I’ve seen some of it – but it’s just not a “way in” for me.
I totally agree, though, that Supernatural is basically the definition of a tight ensemble – and sometimes in that atmosphere it becomes impossible to credit who does what (I love it when that happens – collaboration !). Nobody is day-jobbing it there. Nobody is a hired hand. They are a TEAM: director, production designer, music designers, editors, actors. So a moment like JA looking at the screen – which may have been treated like a goof-off to be edited out in another more conventional series – is included. Because it’s perfect. They are all so much on the same page – and I guess that is evident to me from what is onscreen. Every single frame vibrated with it – the people in the audience, all the girls in the school, Calliope (“I can’t even”) – everyone was so devoted to One Vision.
That’s some rare television right there.
Helena –
No way could I compete with your Beowulf. I’m leaning toward re-writing some of the Belphoebe stanzas from The Fairie Queene since her name means “Beautiful Phoebe” – a beautiful hunter. We’ll see if I can torture poor Mr. Spenser’s stanzas into something a little short of awful.
Melanie –
The Crowlessy, I’ll have to think about that. I do like challenges.
Mutecypher
How about a bit of Marvell?
Had we but World enough, and Pies
This coyness, lady, were no crime
We would schmooze and think which way to sashay
To the back seat of the Impala, and pass our long Loves Day.
Until it was time to say Adios, always Adios.
HAHA
(Andrew Marvell, wherever you are, I’m very sorry.)
“Is Marie gonna get eaten?” – and she raises her hand as she asks the question. Like she’s in class.
Helena –
If we’re going to expand beyond epic poetry, now about some Eliot?
In the room the fangirls talk and tell,
Debating subtext and Destiel.
I should have been a pair of ragged henleys
Draping across the chests of Old Spice Seamen.
Shall I frost my hair atop? Do I dare to eat a pie?
I shall wear red flannel shirts, and hum to the spirit in the sky.
I have heard the windigos humping, sigh to sigh.
I am shaking with laughter reading this.
// Shall I frost my hair atop? Do I dare to eat a pie? //
dying …
Also: HENLEYS.
Sheila –
Don’t you wish you could see Marie’s one woman “Orphan Black” show?
Definitely. I want to see whatever Marie comes up with at this point.
Marie is livin’ the dream.
And a moment that is representative of the reason why I love this show:
1. Dean forgets himself and starts jamming out to the music. Funny, as it is. Hilarious. But even funnier because
2. He is jamming out to his own mother burning up onstage.
It’s the combination of those things that is the slam-dunk for me. #1 alone is funny. But add the second? The sick twist of it?
HUMOR.
I want to apologize. I am newer to Twitter than @JensenAckles and have obviously not learned the art of expressing myself in 140 characters or less. I am also overloaded with response to this amazing episode. Thanks for reading patiently or, well, just ignore me and move on to the next comment. I also find you to be particularly provocative commentators with whom it is irresistable to engage. Again, thanks for indulging me.
On the line, “I’m gonna Barbara Streisand this bitch.” my 17 yo daughter said, “What? I don’t get it.” I did, but I couldn’t remember why beyond her lovely singing voice. Here it is 3 days later and it finally dawned on me. “Yentl is a 1983 romantic musical drama film directed, co-written, co-produced, and starring Barbra Streisand (Marie).” It is a very Shakespearean story of a girl pretending to be a man, falling in love with a man, marrying a woman, etc all backed up by Streisand’s beautifully, poignant singing. And yes there was subtext, but in those days it was the private joke of those “funny” hollywood/theatre folk and if you ‘got’ it you certainly didn’t talk about it in front of your mom. How do they do that? X files references aside, Yentl, really!?!? Ok, it was awesome and perfect like the rest of this episode.
No need to apologize! You express yourself just fine! :)
The Barbra Streisand joke really, though, was a reference to a woman who acts/directs/stars. “Writer … director … actor …” Marie says into the mirror.
A woman who acts/directs/stars is still enough of an anomaly in the industry – that Yentl – freakin’ YENTL – from almost 30 freakin’ years ago – is STILL one of the only examples.
and yeah, Yentl is a wonderful movie where a girl dresses up as a boy, so there was that added funny layer. (Speaking of which: I LOVE that an all-girls school would put on a play made up of mostly boy characters. Either Supernatural or The Outsiders. Ha! Because it’s fun to get a chance to be a boy! Loved that element. That it was an all-girls’ school doing a show with a mostly male cast. Hilarious.)
But I saw her comment being really about the “triple threat” nature of Barbra Streisand – which still stands pretty solitary in the industry, unfortunately.
sorry, one more comment, since you got me thinking:
It’s great that a young girl like Marie who wasn’t even born when Yentl came out, who wasn’t born until, like, yesterday … would KNOW the legendary status of La Streisand … would know how groundbreaking her career was – because any theatre nerd worthy of the name knows those details – and would jump at the chance to be a “triple threat” too.
Streisand is still a reference point for people – there are accomplishments from Streisand that still have never been matched. She’s still someone to look up to!
(Glee referenced her all the time, too – which was very cool.)
Melanie –
I assume this is your favorite Steely Dan song.
mutecypher, that’s awesome. Looking forward to the SPN poetry slam.
Helena –
I figured I had you at “henleys.”
Okay, I have girded my loins and sticky-taped tissues to my face and watched it again.
I know the motel is Route 200 Motel for the obvious reasons, but I choose to believe it’s also another Zappa reference, because this episode is about me.
One of the funniest things for me was hearing those great female voices singing Dean’s biggest traumas, like, “it burned my moooother :-( and it cursed my brother.” “[John] took away our free will.” ha ha ha. Also: that’s Adam, he’s still in Hell with Lucifer. Aaaawkward. LOL
I also love how all the girls just uncomplicatedly accept that these two huge macho FBI agents are deranged Supernatural fans who think they know how the story “really” ends, and whether there’s singing in it, etc. I’ve said 1000x times Sam pairing off with women is one of my favourite things, I loved his battle of wits with Maeve.
Ninjas, robots, space, tentacles, Destiel, genderswap — is that going to be the most stuffed second act or what?
Still can’t handle Mary singing or Chuck at the end, stick a fork in me, I’m done.
// that’s Adam, he’s still in Hell with Lucifer. Aaaawkward. //
HA!!
// I also love how all the girls just uncomplicatedly accept that these two huge macho FBI agents are deranged Supernatural fans who think they know how the story “really” ends, and whether there’s singing in it, etc. //
I know!
And the fact that Dean, this huge guy, immediately starts bickering with them … nobody blinks an eye at how STRANGE that is – but instead rolls their eyes, laughs in his face, argues back … He’s totally on their level. He’s a big kid himself.
Dean looking harassed is also one of my favorite Deans.
Sam, yes, was a joy to behold. How about him starting to wax rhapsodic to Maeve about the sound board when HE was in high school and she interrupts him and leaves the room. yet another one of those: Sam and Dean being presented as middle-aged kind of … losers, even. Nobody cares about the creaky old technology when you were a kid, Grandpa.
ALSO: Maeve saying to him: “Don’t touch anything.” before she leaves. And of course what does he do immediately? Touch everything.
and yes. Mary singing with her beautiful almost Irish-folk-singer sounding voice – and Dean watching her … too much.
I also love, though, her placing her head in the hole and screaming her head off. HILARIOUS.
The glances between Sam and Dean – like when Marie references “Hell House” – they are not used to being celebrities – but it’s the specificity in their glances. Sam looks surprised – Dean looks surprised and also disgusted and harassed and I DIE. LAUGHING.
And I am not a Destiel person at all – but did you catch Dean straightening Castiel’s tie before the curtain went up? It was so caring and also so automatic. Totally JA choice there.
The young girl wearing the beard practicing how to say “idjits” is so funny. I’ve seen it 3 times now and it’s still making me laugh.
And Chuck’s face.
No. Stop it.
And the drunk drama teacher. Dying.
Sheila –
“Livin’ the dream.” We always come back to Benny.
Ha. Yes. Bemny.
But really, Marie and Maeve reminded me of me when I was in high school. I wrote a little one-woman show when I was 16 (it was Louisa May Alcott narrating her life) – and we were all TOTALLY committed to living in that fantasy world of the Drama Club. It was our whole lives. Nothing better!
Supernatural really GOT that. It didn’t make fun of it. I mean, of course it made TOTAL fun of it – but there was a real fond-ness and affection beneath that. Because, after all, JA and JP were theatre nerds too. Every person working on that show was a theatre nerd to some degree.
The intermittent shots of the audience members were great – just sooooo wonderful and warm.
Oh, Benny.
I know. The best.
//I’ve said 1000x times Sam pairing off with women is one of my favourite things, I loved his battle of wits with Maeve.//
Yes!! I loved the whole scene when Sam asked her “Heard any strange noises?” and she sits down at the sound board and starts bringing up all the “scary” noises from the production. Then Sam being unable to resist messing with the lights when she left.
The whole episode was a treasure trove of great moments. I haven’t laughed like that over an episode of Supernatural in a long time. Then “Carry On My Wayward Son” and the scene of them driving off in the Impala pretty much reduced me to tears. Didn’t think it could get any better and then I saw Chuck.
This episode for me ranks right up there with “Mystery Spot” and “Changing Channels” which are two of my absolute favorites. However, like others have mentioned, I’m trying to prepare myself for the pain that is surely to come now that they have given us so much of what we wanted.
I really thought it was interesting the way the musical handled John. Both of the songs that “Dean” sang featured John in the lyrics. “The Road So Far” had the line “He took our own free will.” During Dean’s solo of “A Single Man Tear” it was the line “but underneath this broken mask it is my father and all his wrath.” During “Carry On My Wayward Son” Dean looked at Mary and Sam looked at Bobby but neither of them really focused on John at all.
//And when Dean explains to Marie what happened and that he had become a demon, is it me or does he look a little proud when he says « Knight of Hell, Actually »?//
Lyrie, I definitely noticed that as well. He did look proud.
// During “Carry On My Wayward Son” Dean looked at Mary and Sam looked at Bobby but neither of them really focused on John at all. //
Yes, I noticed that too!
John has been reduced to an extra in the Winchester story. Mary is all.
Quintuple threat even. Streisand was a writer, director, producer, actor, and singer. There aren’t even many men who can make that claim. Marie really did Streisand it especially on “One Man Tear”- beautiful.
My point is: that Streisand’s accomplishment is still somewhat singular, 30-plus years later, so much so that it remains a reference point for a 16-year-old girl.
“Fanfiction” did such a wonderful job of celebrating all the things we love and have loved about Supernatural. Another amazing how-did-they-do-that element of this episode comes out when you consider what they did with the things you, rhetorical you, really HATE about Supernatural. They (the aforementioned creative team) put it out there, acknowledged it, owned it, stoked it, then totally flipped it on its ear so you couldn’t possibly hate anymore. How did they do that?!? Think about these:
1. A musical theatre 200th episode – could have been so awkwardly bad. “There is NO singing in Supernatural!” If you weren’t misty by “Carry on Wayward Son” you are SSS (season six Sam). Flipped.
2. Homoerotic subtext – “Take a sub-step back, ladies.” Flipped.
3. Meta – “I hate the meta episodes. Me too. Me too.” will go down in history as the most mega, meta, meta words spoken since Aristotle invented the concept and the word. Flipped.
4. The B.M. scenes – “Bowel Movement” scenes. Flipped.
5. The cliche, two-bit, minor mythological deity – Be honest, everybody hates them. I was so disppointed when Calliope was revealed, all perfectly coiffed and robed in her beflowered greek goddess gown. Lame. Until she uttered her final speech and with her last breath, “robots… tentacles… in space… I can’t even.” I was cheering for her, wishing she could somehow be redeemed, but then we wouldn’t have gotten the purple goo and poncho boy, alas! Flipped out!
So I realize you don’t all hate all of these things, but there must be other things you disliked, like say “wacky calliope music”, or obscure references that I/you don’t get. Were you hater-flipped? How did they do that?!? Possible fairy magic…
Mutecypher, Crazy song, can’t say I’ve ever heard it, but it sounds fun. “I like to do it with my fez on.” OK…I was actually referencing the eleventh Dr. Who, “Fezes are cool.”
Mutecypher, You might even say I totally Who’d that.
which makes my film criticism work sometimes very challenging when I have to formulate an opinion IMMEDIATELY following seeing something
I remember LOVING The Dark Knight when I first saw it. Took my friend to see it a second time and was utterly mystified. Kinda hated it. Talk about diminishing returns. Only Ledger remains.
Anyway yeah, trying to step back from something, though, while trying to retain a sense of what made it urgent or alive — that’s so hard. But you are great at it! People who write episodic tv reviews as they air have been finding it an increasingly problematic form of criticism; it is extremely difficult to write a good one, without knowing the full story. And cinema — I mean it’s not (generally) longform like tv. But the CONTEXT is longform — the longest!
I love the slapsticky fighting during A Single Man Tear (Helena didn’t you make the cover for that single?) — and Maeve being like, “RIGHT, get the understudies into hair and costume” ah ha. She is my hero. There are so many little gems strewn about; I’m glad to hear its holding up for you. I don’t quite know yet where it’s gonna fit in for me.
Speaking the subtext and the paratext simultaneously, and having it work — hats off, team.
The Impala. Wonder why he didn’t clean it while they were on holiday? For this moment of course — and it was for this episode that we lost Demon!Dean so soon. Okay — I recant — it was worth it!
I actually don’t need to see the real thing again. I’m okay now.
Me too! And a whole subgenre of “Sam gives the amulet back to Dean” fanfiction cried out in pain. But yeah — we’ve had it, that’s done, that’s actually resolved now — gulp, what NEXT?
I loved the asshole drama teacher! She was like the lovechild of Molly Shannon and Mary Louise Parker or something. It was good to see her and play!Sam help save the day.
I also love, though, her placing her head in the hole and screaming her head off.
So hilariously dark and mean!
but did you catch Dean straightening Castiel’s tie before the curtain went up?
I did — but I thought he was turning it around, so the back was facing out (like Cas’s invariably is/was) — perhaps I mis-saw.
//which makes my film criticism work sometimes very challenging when I have to formulate an opinion IMMEDIATELY following seeing something//
I feel like that a bit with these Season 10 open threads :-) It can take me a long time to get my thoughts in order and by then everyone else has said what I was going to say, only much better.
Jessie, I’m making the cover artwork for the original cast recording – double gatefold 12 inch vinyl, with a pullout lyric booklet an something cryptic written on the vinyl by the pressing plant in the space where the grooves end and the label begins. Do you want to write the liner notes?
And not available on Spotify.
I’ve watched the episode once … kind of psyching myself up for a rewatch. May need some hard liquor by my side. But what did make me laugh like a drain on first watch was Dean trotting behind Marie trying to tell her what really went down and me thinking – Dean you are a TERRIBLE story teller, your version sounds CRAP (‘and then Sam ran over a dog’ GAAH!). No wonder Marie laughed at his version.
But then, ‘Knight of Hell, actually’ – important to make the distinction between that and common or garden demon. Maybe Dean is a bit of a snob about certain things. Anyway, it made me laugh and sent out a bit of a tremor as well.
Which was the 100th ep by the way – was it Changing Channels?
// I feel like that a bit with these Season 10 open threads :-) It can take me a long time to get my thoughts in order and by then everyone else has said what I was going to say, only much better. //
Yes, me too! I like to think about stuff a bit more.
But it is fun to come back to the thread when I’m ready and talk about it.
// And not available on Spotify. //
hahahahaha
and oh my God “Sam ran over a dog” – like he STILL cannot bring himself to validate the existence of Amelia. Jeez Louise, get OVER IT.
Also, again, Dean seemed like this old Gramps, hustling along after her, trying to keep up. Same with Sam waxing rhapsodic about the sound board he had to use in high school. “Back when I was in school … we had to create sounds with our own bare hands … in a driving snowstorm!” And Maeve honestly could not care less.
I’m still in the middle of my second re watch. I haven’t had very much free time this week. You have already discussed everything I had picked up on except one. I thought it was very interesting that Dean didn’t say that he had been cured from being a demon when he was telling Marie the real version of the story.
I love the fact that even though Dean hated everything about the musical he was 100% behind it when it came to protecting Marie and the cast from lame Greek Goddess.
I could go on and on but I think I’ll leave it here. Sheila, as always thanks for having this available for us.
Helena –
Per IMDB, the 100th episode was season 5’s “Point of No Return”
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1594854/
That would have been an awkward place to stop the storyline for a meta episode.
Jessie –
Yes, only Heath remains. Hey, weren’t you too young to see The Dark Knight by yourself back then? It was PG-13.
Jessie – hahaha about Dark Knight! A writer I respect – someone whose taste is great – got so swept away by it that he wrote in his review, “This is the best movie that has been released in my lifetime.”
I remember thinking:
1. A year from now you will be embarrassed that you wrote that, sir.
2. You must not see a lot of movies.
I was not a fan of that film at all – except for Heath. He was way better than that movie deserved. RIP!
The whole “react immediately” thing – which has been exacerbated by Twitter – has really impacted more thoughtful criticism. Meaning: THOUGHT has been put into it. hahaha
I know everyone likes to participate in the moment – but I actually find that stressful. I need time to process, and especially if I’m writing about something for pay – I need that time to examine: What DON’T I like about this? You have to be able to ask yourself those questions.
And yeah, I agree that weekly re-caps as it’s happening are fun for viewers I’m sure – but add nothing to the critical landscape or critical understanding of the show (except for rarities like Matt Seitz’s superb Mad Men re-caps). They’re too granular. The mood swings up and down with the episodes (especially in a long season like Supernatural’s) – you lose the thread. People tend to over-react: “THAT WAS THE BEST” or “THAT WAS THE WORST”.
That’s why I have zero interest in doing re-caps of current seasons. I far prefer the conversations we all have about those old seasons – because the “pressure” is somehow off. Also, to those people who have been watching all along for 10 years, there has been a lot of time to marinate, to be thoughtful. That is very much lost in current-season re-caps.
Anyway, my two cents.
If I love something, I get sensitive and anxious sometimes and have to retreat to get myself together, or at least just sit in the experience for a while. That happened this week with this episode. I like to swim around in that dream-space by myself, before I have to listen to people talking about what so and so said on Twitter and some backstage anecdote. I’m like: NO. Let me still DREAM about this thing!!
Anyway, moving on. I’ve seen it now a couple of times, and have found my power of speech again.
// Maeve being like, “RIGHT, get the understudies into hair and costume” ah ha. She is my hero. //
That was so brilliant and SO stage manager-y. Those people are unflappable. (I love the stage manager in Slings and Arrows. That is such a real type!!)
Also: I LOVED how Maeve and Marie were both sooooo frightened of the scarecrow they made. The totally UN-scary scarecrow. It was adorable to me. Made them seem like the kids that they are. The glance they threw at one another … like: It’s gonna be okay. Be strong when Marie is about to go show Dean the scarecrow. I fell in love with both of them. And how Marie winces when Dean unveils it. She can barely look at it.
// And a whole subgenre of “Sam gives the amulet back to Dean” fanfiction cried out in pain. But yeah — we’ve had it, that’s done, that’s actually resolved now — gulp, what NEXT? //
hahahaha I know! I have been so necklace-obsessed – but there was something about the way it was handled that was even BETTER than the real necklace being returned. It’s a symbol. That’s all. Let it go. I loved it – it was respectful of those of us who yearn to see its return, but it was also firm in its belief that it is not the necklace that bonds them together. I felt really really satisfied with that closing-out of that long assed arc.
// She was like the lovechild of Molly Shannon and Mary Louise Parker or something. //
hahahaha Totally. I loved how she was like, “Girl, pick up that stake – let’s kill this broad”.
Also, how wonderful that nobody died.
Oh – and that guy I mention did write a blog-post a couple years later saying, “Clearly my excitement over Dark Knight got the better of me” or something like that.
It took guts. Lots of people just dig their heels in with their first impression.
Everyone talking about John Winchester… I did notice that all the lyrical mentions of him were negative, but didn’t notice the non-interaction with his character until so many folks pointed it out. What are the thoughts on what’s going on here? Sheila, I’m not ready to go with your “Mary is all” yet – though perhaps you were only talking this episode and not the series.
Is there a cliche about the father-daughter relationship for the sort of father that sends his daughter to an all-girls school? Is that being referenced via Marie’s version?
Is John Winchester/Jeffrey Dean Morgan just too powerful a character to bring into the meta? So he needs to be kept at a distance lest he imbalance things? Make sure Mercutio stays dead so that the play doesn’t become about him.
Has the show been trending more toward Mary and I’ve just been too dull to pick it up?
Also, when did Dean watch Rent? After all the Casa Erotica PPV got old? When would he have stayed in the sort of hotel that had it on PPV?
I know, Dean watching Rent was a stretch. To me, it was a total meta moment. These girls are drama nerds, and so he suddenly becomes a drama nerd, even though it makes no sense.
Mutecypher – yes, my Mary is All comment really had to do with how she was positioned in the musical, and how her big closeup starting out Carry on My Wayward Son packed such a huge punch. Especially with that gigantic closeup of Dean watching. The musical (not the show – damn you, Meta!!) seemed to be Mary-focused, with John almost an afterthought. Or an extra in the larger drama.
The “exorcism” of Dean scene – with all its rantings and ravings about brainwashing – and mother dying – sort of brought that old old backstory from the pilot back into my mind again at least (and perhaps highlighted by re-watching Season 2 at the same time for re-caps. His using of that word “brainwashing” was maybe more startling to me than it would have been otherwise.)
So this is just me riffing right now – that John has been relegated to a smaller place in Dean’s heart than Mary’s. John has taken his proper place – no longer looming over him as a doomed father figure drill sergeant – but a guy who co-opted his life and brainwashed his sons.
Again, this is just going on what has happened in the last 3 episodes. We can get too granular on a week to week basis and forget all the subtleties of other stuff.
But there was something about Dean’s face as he looked at that little girl singing the song and playing his mother … I felt like in that moment he grieved for the first time. And WASN’T punished for it. He was allowed to have that moment. He had space to have that moment with the memory of his mother.
But then, of course, in just the scene earlier, he was jamming out to the song where his mother was burning up onstage.
hahahaha
I think if it had been, let’s just pretend – John Winchester doing that solo – we would have seen a very different look on Dean’s face, obviously. In a way, Dean has worked out for himself who John was, there was good and bad in him, it’s less romanticized now … but his mother? That’s the primary wound. It keeps being used against him. STILL.
// Is John Winchester/Jeffrey Dean Morgan just too powerful a character to bring into the meta? So he needs to be kept at a distance lest he imbalance things? Make sure Mercutio stays dead so that the play doesn’t become about him. //
I definitely think that’s a part of it, and bless you for the Mercutio reference. Show-stealer, that one!
I think what John Winchester brings with him are feelings of ambivalence and this was not an ambivalent episode. So he needed to be sidelined.
But I’ll think more about it.
I think ambivalence nails it. The episode was a big slice of whatever is the opposite of cry-baby pie.
Yes, John would show up – and the warm-fuzzies would vanish immediately!
St. Alphonso’s Wish-Fulfillment Waffle Breakfast.
Along with everything else there was to love, there’s also Sam and Dean’s pained/annoyed reactions to the team huddle “ghoooost – facers!”
Sooo funny. Dean turns right to Sam. Like: “No. Help. Please. No.”
So many good exchanges of glances but that one was one of my favorites!
And Sam getting swept up in how “charming” the show is and then seeing Dean’s rage and totally changing his comments. “No? No. NO.”
Re: Rent (because that was possibly my biggest laugh on first watch), I have 2 hypotheses. One is that it’s entirely possible that he caught the movie adaptation on HBO in some motel room and probably even enjoyed it, not that he would ever admit that to anyone. In that case, I don’t think he remembered WHAT he was quoting, but he knew he was quoting something, and it worked for the occasion. My second (and, I think, more likely) hypothesis is that he came up with those words spontaneously and had no idea whatsoever that he was quoting anything. He just thought it sounded good. Either way, it cracked me up. “Did he just quote Rent?” “Not enough to get us in trouble.” Awesome.
Natalie – totally, either way, it was awesome.
Any time Dean is in the position of giving an inspirational speech (which, if you think about it, is almost never) – he has to quote something else.
“No day … but today.”
HA!
Reminiscent of the ending of S8’s ‘Maybe I can’t carry the weight of these trials. But I can carry you.’
*cue sniffling*
And then Sam frowns and says, ‘I think you just kind of quoted Lord Of The Rings.’
Sheila: //I loved the Jerk-Bitch exchange, actually. I loved it because of the SYMPHONY of SHIT on JA’s face.//
YES ! Me too. That’s what I meant by « the actors make it work ». Maybe if it hadn’t already been used with Crowley a few weeks ago I wouldn’t have minded. Maybe I’m just too protective of the BM scenes and I don’t want the jerk-bitch thing to become a gimmick.
// I saw it as multiple things going on. He was trying to own his own story, wrest it back from the hands of these LITTLE GIRLS who think they KNOW SOMETHIN’ ABOUT SOMETHIN’ (to quote Crossroad Blues) … but there was also that element of, “I wasn’t just your everyday demon. I was much much worse.’//
Yeah, you’re right! (I really have to re-watch Crossroad Blues this weekend). It’s so important for Dean to own his own character. Maybe even more lately?
//although we didn’t really see him as “much worse”. What the hell did he do that was so awful? Bad karaoke, bar fights? //
Well, we still don’t know what they did with/to the triplets…
//but did you catch Dean straightening Castiel’s tie before the curtain went up?
I did — but I thought he was turning it around, so the back was facing out (like Cas’s invariably is/was) — perhaps I mis-saw.//
Yes, I think that’s what he was doing. I loved that detail. But I suppose I’m some sort of a Destiel person so maybe I’m just not seeing straight. (pun not intended, I swear)
About reacting right after watching an episode: guilty! I like to rejoice in what struck me immediately, sometimes. Like that beautiful Impala. Or after Soul Survivor: I NEEDED to get some things out. Then I can focus on other stuff that go deeper. And what’s great with a show like this one is that I know a few weeks, these episode will have another layer for me. Even year from now, I’ll probably still find something else. Quantum Leap, Veronica Mars, Deadwood, Buffy… Even without re-watching them, they still « feed » me. Am I making any sense?
Lyrie – to be honest with you, “jerk bitch” always felt like a gimmick to me. It felt fan-driven – the fans picked up on it, made a big deal out of it, and the writers reflected that and put it into the show on a more regular basis to please the fans. Nothing wrong with that – but it has always walked that line for me. It’s like they wanted a tag-line, or a gimmick, or a catchphrase – and the fans somehow made that one happen.
But still: JA’s reaction to having just forgotten himself and called a little girl a “bitch” – Like, he is slightly horrified at himself for about half a second, totally embarrassed … SO FUNNY. As far as he is concerned, that teenage girl is Sammy. When he says to her, “Take a bow, Sammy” ….. heart. CRACK.
In re: Castiel’s tie: Yes, he turned it around. But it was just this compulsive little caring gesture, something a mother would do. And it was so automatic: “Here ya go, pal, lemme fix your tie for you …” So charming.
And in re: reacting immediately:
It TOTALLY makes sense – I just have a hard time with it (for myself – I don’t care when others do it)! It’s my own stuff. :) And it’s stuff I really have to “get over” in my film critic work – because there I HAVE to get my shit together, and write up a review within 24 hours of seeing something. It’s challenging. Because of course I can’t be like, “OMG THAT WAS SO GREAT” – I have to, you know, use grammar and stuff. :) I have to THINK about it, and what I like, and what I didn’t like, and WHY I didn’t like it … It’s good practice in terms of critical thinking, I’ll tell you that. You have to really sharpen those skills.
But that’s being a critic. Being a fan is a different thing – and there is no need to inhibit oneself in terms of response.
I just like to be alone with my thoughts. I am a very slow processor. It takes me time – especially if something is good.
//And Sam getting swept up in how “charming” the show is and then seeing Dean’s rage and totally changing his comments. “No? No. NO.”//
And Ackles’ line reading of “There’s no singing in Supernatural!” It’s like he can’t contain it, it comes bursting out of him, and he has COMPLETELY forgotten why they’re actually there. That’s how much of an affront it is to have his life story set to Andrew Floyd Webber crap.
It’s also an interesting contrast to his reaction to the Supernatural fans in Real Ghostbusters. If it had just been a play, he might have been able to hold it together (not happily, maybe, but controlled nonetheless), but the fact that it’s a freaking MUSICAL just pushes him over the edge.
And I love how Sam keeps getting sucked in by the play. The sets, the production value, the tech equipment, the mild jealousy over not exploring the Samstiel subtext. It’s very endearing.
“And this show I am sure has not sold out–”
“Let’s hope not.”
The two of them together …
“Why isn’t it Dea-stiel?”
“Really? That’s your issue with this?”
And then – beautifully – Sam starts laughing! I’m a Behavior Junkie. That kind of moment makes the world go round for me!
And the bonding of Maeve and Sam was beautiful. They’re so alike.
More mirrors!
Like the moment at the end where she says, “Right about this time, Sam and Dean would take off …” and he starts laughing – she’s suggesting to him that they should probably vamoose. There’s such an energy of respect between him and her – and she’s, what, two full feet shorter than him?
ENDEARING.
She is quickly rising as one of my favorite one-off characters the show has ever had.
“To a liquor store. Or a bar. Or both.” (All one shot. Deadpan. Headset.)
Cut back to Sam – whose response is – “wow. Really?”
hahaha I love these fictional characters, I really do.
Sorry, one more moment I loved: GOOFY as hell:
The show has begun. Sam and Dean are on opposite sides of the stage. The scarecrow rises behind Sam, and Dean points at it. Sam, caught up in the moment of the show, smiles, and points back, like, “Right back atcha” – and Dean is forced to yell, “TURN AROUND.”
I just love Sam forgetting, momentarily, that he needs to be on the lookout for a scarecrow, not reliving his Drama Nerd days.
// In a way, Dean has worked out for himself who John was, there was good and bad in him, it’s less romanticized now … but his mother? That’s the primary wound. It keeps being used against him. STILL. .//
Totally agree. One of the lines that Sam sings in “A Single Man Tear” applies very well. “…but underneath the manly sheen is my brother, a boy named Dean.” That four year old boy who lost his mom is still very much at the core of Dean Winchester.
//But there was something about Dean’s face as he looked at that little girl singing the song and playing his mother … I felt like in that moment he grieved for the first time. And WASN’T punished for it. He was allowed to have that moment. He had space to have that moment with the memory of his mother.//
//I think what John Winchester brings with him are feelings of ambivalence and this was not an ambivalent episode. So he needed to be sidelined. //
Something that kind of struck me when I watched again. The show has been doing “Carry On My Wayward Son” since season 2. Fans of the show totally associate that as kind of the theme song so to speak. Obviously Sam and Dean wouldn’t though. Sam’s little “Really?” question when Marie mentioned the song was perfect. I was too busy laughing the first time around at Dean and Marie’s simultaneous “It’s a classic!” to really let that fact sink in. Sam and Dean wouldn’t associate that song with their lives. So imagine what Dean would have felt hearing “Mary” sing those lines to him. Hearing his mom tell him that somebody he could find peace. No coincidence that the song was done soft and gentle as a lullaby that a mother would sing to a child. A focus on John definitely wouldn’t have worked in that moment at all.
// And a whole subgenre of “Sam gives the amulet back to Dean” fanfiction cried out in pain. But yeah — we’ve had it, that’s done, that’s actually resolved now — gulp, what NEXT? //
They either cried out in pain or they are now more convinced then ever that Sam actually has the amulet. The Dean character in the play was still wearing an amulet when the final song occurred. So the one that Marie-Sam gave Dean was one that she just happened to be carrying around? Ahhhhh subtext. :-)
Michelle –
Ha, I love, too, that of course Sam and Dean are not all obsessed with Carry On My Wayward Son because …. they don’t watch the show. Very funny! The simultaneous “it’s a classic” was hilarious, and I loved how Dean, harassed and upset, was suddenly so invested in this stupid show that he hated on sight.
Good call on the amulet!
I am not up to date on fan fiction. Is there speculation that Sam is withholding the amulet … for evil reasons? To hurt his brother? To be a douche?
What’s the 4-11?
// I am a very slow processor. It takes me time – especially if something is good. //
Me too! But to process, I need to talk about it. Hence, sometimes, my incoherent rambling, I suppose. And my joy to have found you, guys! But I must say: if I had to watch and read as many things as you do, my tiny brain would fry.
// I have to, you know, use grammar and stuff. //
Ugh. I hate when that happens. And I write for a living. And I’m the slowest writer in the world. I don’t make a lot of money. Really…
// “To a liquor store. Or a bar. Or both.” (All one shot. Deadpan. Headset.)//
She is perfect. I love deadpan. That’s what I loved about Castiel in the first seasons he was in the show.
“Specially my sweet, brave, selfless… Sam. There’s nothing he can’t do.”
“No.”
HIS FACE!
// And I write for a living. And I’m the slowest writer in the world. I don’t make a lot of money. //
I totally feel your pain.
I think the way Dean said “No” is one of my favorite moments in the episode.
I think I fucked the url. Oh well.
Guys, Rosario Dawson was in the recent movie of Rent. Dean’s seen it.
mutecypher —
Hey, weren’t you too young to see The Dark Knight by yourself back then?
My mum very kindly wrote me a permission note.
[Point of No Return] would have been an awkward place to stop the storyline for a meta episode.
Well it does have Zachariah telling Adam “You now you can’t trust them. You know Sam and Dean Winchester are psychotically, irrationally, erotically codependent on each other, right?” So nasty. And true! I miss you Zachariah!!
I thought about the Sandman version of Calliope too — glad things didn’t get quite so heavy here….
Sheila —
LOL about your Dark Knight friend and good on him for his mea culpa! It can be so hard to not be overwhelmed by a movie — sometimes just being in a particular headspace will ruin you.
I think there is definitely a place for episodic reviews (if only to generate a comment space where I get to go OMG DID YOU SEE WHAT SHE DID) but I think people try too hard to make them definitive statements; or the reading community demands it. What I like is where immediate reaction (which is great and exciting and cathartic) gives way to back-and-forth, a hashing-out, a dialogue — a general understanding that meanings are still percolating, haven’t ossified yet into a “proper understanding”.
Love your thoughts on how Dean’s rethinking John, getting some distance there, particularly after the brainwashing comment. Will be interesting to watch out for that going forward.
sort of brought that old old backstory from the pilot back into my mind again at least
I think one of the punches this episode packed with its emphasis on the pilot and heading off in the car was that it brought the pilot into immediate conversation with the present. The gulf of difference there, and everything that’s happened, all those feelings felt by us and them over that span of time. The more I think about it the more I realise how well-constructed this episode was to serve its purpose: make us think about 200 episodes of story, character, feelings (and what we’ve done with that over that time).
& Natalie —
Sam laughed so much this episode! I was in Heaven! His playful prodding about portmanteau names, his thumbs-up, fiddling with the lights and then having to apologise, taking charge while Dean was focussing on letting everyone know very FIRMLY how APPALLED he was by all this business.
Helena–
Sounds like a collector’s dream. You don’t need me to write notes though, we can just use some excerpts from Marie’s journal that I found. “August 12. Pitched Supernatural: The Musical. Mrs Chandler too drunk to raise copyright issues.”
// Guys, Rosario Dawson was in the recent movie of Rent. Dean’s seen it. //
Of course. Duh. What was I thinking? He probably owns it.
Jessie – My birthday is in two weeks two, by the way. November 27. Go, Sagittarians!
In re: reacting immediately: I agree with all that you said. What is disturbing to me (in the film world mostly – although I’m sure it happens in TV too) – is that immediate reaction tends to create a consensus – INSTANTLY – before the film has even opened. That’s what happens during the Cannes festival, Venice – I generally avoid Twitter during those festivals, because critics emerge from screenings and start Tweeting. Often they make grandiose statements: “Such and such is the Best Movie since Citizen Kane” – You know, I’m cynical, but sometimes I think they’re looking to get quoted on a poster, rather than anything else. But that’s evil of me.
And so – within 10 minutes – a consensus is formed around a film that only a handful of people have even SEEN. And so slobs like myself, who are NOT at Cannes, have to fight against the tide of reaction in order to form our own response. Anyway – it’s not a huge deal – but often those first reactions are way WAY off base. They’re too strong, they lack perspective, they ‘set the tone’ for the rest of us too – so if I, say, don’t like one of the films everyone raved about at Cannes – suddenly I’m a “contrarian”.
It really inhibits critical thinking and discussion. But this is the world we live in now. No real biggie.
// I think people try too hard to make them definitive statements; or the reading community demands it. //
Yes. One should definitely avoid definitive statements in a first reaction to something. It’s tempting, but seriously: don’t do it.
That’s one of the reasons I enjoyed Matt Seitz’s Mad Men re-caps – he had a clear enough head to keep the whole season in mind, all the different Arcs, and yet also to take each episode as its own distinct entity. I don’t read a ton of TV criticism but those re-caps struck me as extremely elegant – and the comments sections were always awesome!
Same with a lot of the AV Club stuff. Vigorous back and forth between passionate fans. That is always a good thing!
// The more I think about it the more I realise how well-constructed this episode was to serve its purpose: make us think about 200 episodes of story, character, feelings (and what we’ve done with that over that time). //
I know, right?
And we got to “visit” all of the characters we met over the years – through these high school kids playing them – Bobby and Mary and a glimpse of Garth – and Chuck – Chuck!!
Jessie –
//Guys, Rosario Dawson was in the recent movie of Rent. Dean’s seen it.//
Excellent point. Not to mention he would have been totally into Joanne and Maureen. Idina Menzel is kind of his type anyway.
Well, it’s canon that he did see “Black Swan”. Twice. So “Rent” is not completely out of the question–especially, as you guys have pointed out, with all the hot chicks in the movie.
Dean’s head would explode if he saw Blue Is the Warmest Color.
Today I found myself watching Marie say “Well, duh” over and over after Dean says, “You know they’re brothers, right?” It’s almost Mellllanie BosTICK the way she says it, just such an odd, specific “duh.” Not so much to make Dean feel stupid, she just seems to enjoy the way the word feels in her mouth as she’s saying it.
I’m wondering if Dean watched Rent when he was with Lisa.
Was Kristen both Castiel and Adam?
“Mellllanie BosTICK”
HAHAHAHA
She just opened on Broadway in Cabaret this past week, speaking of live theatre. The pictures of her taking her bow with the cast brought tears to my eyes, because I am a gigantic nerd.
And yes: Castiel and Adam were the same person!
Pics of Emma Stone taking her bow with the cast.
http://www.vanityfair.com/vf-hollywood/2014/11/emma-stone-nails-broadway-debut
Still puzzled as to why the demon that spews ‘black smoke’ (god I love that, a triumph of special effects) is wearing a long black dress and goggles. Except, why the hell not.
I loved the demon costume! I loved the random-ness of it.
And the sort of interpretive-dance circling.
I was curious about the blue creature. The one that Sam almost stabs backstage. HA. What was that supposed to be? A Wendigo?
And I am still touched by the “ooh” and “ahh” from the audience with the demon smoke. I don’t know. There’s an innocence there, a sweetness. Waiting for Guffman captured some of that in the shots of the audience during the actual show – same with Slings and Arrows.
Nothing like live theatre!!
The terrible Sam wig … I love the fact that Marie feels the need to don a wig to play Sam, even though her hair is the same as the wig. Showbiz! Theatre is life! (By the way – that poster in the teacher’s office – who is that?)
And the drama teacher has a book on designer motels in among the bottles and space helmets …. ok, I’m done.
Oh my gosh, I absolutely loved that the Sam wig was pretty much exactly the same length/color as her own hair.
So adorable!
What is the point of playing a boy if you can’t wear a wig??
and good catch about designer motels, Helena – that is a rocking observation.
Of course I was scouring all of those posters on the wall. It appears they did The Crucible as well, which … ya know. Fits.
Oh, and it appears that the vinyl pressing plant has temporarily burned down, so while that’s being investigated you may be interested to know that St Alphonso’s Academy Drama Club has produced a limited edition CD.
Cost $7 for the CD and a free pancake breakfast.
Helena!! You are so gifted!
I love it!!
This Buzzfeed article from 2013 was suddenly showing up again in my FB new feed, and it made me think of the episode!
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mattortile/24-ways-musical-theatre-made-you-a-better-person#1291231
//I was curious about the blue creature. The one that Sam almost stabs backstage. HA. What was that supposed to be? A Wendigo?//
I think she was creating a shadow demon that was being projected onto the stage. I loved that bit.
Ohhh, I get it! Right.
I loved when the blue creature got shot, and she gets shot in this very dance-y way. I’m sure you remember the moment. The theatre nerd in me just thrilled to that.
//I was curious about the blue creature. The one that Sam almost stabs backstage. HA. What was that supposed to be? A Wendigo?//
Couldn’t that be a djinn? Like the tattooed one from WIAWSNB?
I think this is definitely going to be one of those episodes where I’ll discover something new and funny and amazing even after having already seen it a dozen times…
Get the fuck outta town, that’s my birthday! *high five*
Helena where do I send my money???
Michelle —
The Dean character in the play was still wearing an amulet when the final song occurred.
Maybe they are self-replicating now. NO AMULET LEFT BEHIND.
November 27 is my birthday! Crazy!!
//Maybe they are self-replicating now.//
Oh no! Samulets = tribbles.
No Amulet Left Behind – starring Nicholas Cage. “This time, it’s biblical!”
Sheila –
In the comments to that Buzzfeed article, someone writes that #14 was Misha Collins resume before he started acting.
Ha! What a weird coincidence – love it!
re: Misha’s resume. It is! There are YouTube videos of MC and JA reading off eachother’s early resumes. The guys are hilarious and laughing at eachother so much. Talked about how much *crap* you put into a resume hoping to catch someone’s attention. The story about clogging is pretty funny.
Not really into convention footage, but that sounds funny.
I stated on my first acting resume that I could type 96 wpm. Which was true. And HUGELY impressive back then. Why it would be relevant to an actress is unknown.
Maybe a role would call for really quick typing?? Maybe? Throw that shit on there!
My brother speaks French and continues to get called in for jobs because he lists that on his resume. It’s hilarious. He started to take French (one of his majors in college) mainly because he loved Inspector Clouseau. Like, literally, it was that stupid a reason. A couple of years of college French, one semester abroad in France, over 25 years ago, and he still, on occasion, gets called in for acting jobs that require a French speaking person. We roar about it. Damn, that college French paid off.
You should never outright lie because it could come back and bite you in the ass. A pal of mine blithely stated on his resume that he could snowboard, because he went once and really enjoyed it. He then got a job in a commercial where it was required that he snowboard at an almost Olympic level of ability. He fudged his way through, annoying EVERYONE on set when it was clear he had lied on his resume and couldn’t snowboard at all. Ha! It certainly made for a great story though.
On the Samulet and fanfiction, //Is there speculation that Sam is withholding the amulet … for evil reasons? To hurt his brother? To be a douche?// I don’t think either of these are generally done, at least in the fics I’ve seen. It’s one of those great empty spaces in the show, right? We see Dean walk out the door, but the final shot is Sam, still in the room. Did he pick it up or did he leave it there in the trash can?
If he did pick it up, I think the usual consensus is not that he’s keeping it as a way to passive-aggressively hurt Dean. It’s more that Dean made such a strong symbolic statement in that moment, that Sam doesn’t know how or when to try to give it back. I’ve read a couple of fics in which Dean is angry to discover the amulet in Sam’s possession, but more often it’s used the way it was in the episode.
On that note, I’m struck by Dean saying, about the amulet, that “it never worked.” Was he talking specifically about Cas’ attempt to locate God with it? Or the more general idea of protection? Or about its symbolic tie to Sam, as a family totem?
Barb –
thanks for the glimpse into the fan fiction handling of the amulet. Interesting! Yes: a big blank space. LOVE it.
I saw Dean’s comment as referring to the symbolic tie to Sam, but with an unconscious echo to Cas calling it “worthless.” He doesn’t need it to remind himself how he feels. It’s a symbol only. But it took him years to be okay with that. The whole thing felt very honest.
The more I think about the amulet section of Fan Fiction, the more happy I am with it. Very emotional.
I feel pretty “done” with the necklace now – which I can’t believe I’m saying – but that moment in Fan Fiction really closed the circle for me in a way that was even MORE satisfying than some tearful conversation between the brothers when Sam reveals he picked it out of the trash. I liked this better. I love it when the show does what IT wants and it’s better than what was in my mind. :)
It will be interesting to see where it all goes moving forward.
//I feel pretty “done” with the necklace now – which I can’t believe I’m saying –// I know what you mean, even though I’m a sucker for a good amulet fic (which I think the show has now effectively nerfed). Dean’s throwing it away is one of the more painful moments in the series, and it always felt like it should come back in to play sometime. Using Marie’s Samulet is, I think, a way of saying that the power of the symbol is understood, and I agree, was an emotional moment for the brothers and the viewers. It was the show saying to the fans, too–“we know you value this. Here it is.”
//But it took him years to be okay with that. The whole thing felt very honest.// Yes! I hadn’t thought of it in that way, but I think you’ve hit it, right there. I love that. Then consider that he gave up the amulet at around the same time he stopped wearing his other charms, his father’s jacket, and his silver ring. At the time it felt symptomatic of his loss of faith, which is not something easily recovered.
// It was the show saying to the fans, too–“we know you value this. Here it is.” //
Right. And sometimes the fans latch onto something – and the way the writers choose to resolve it is far better than what the fans could come up with. That’s why they’re paid the big bucks. :)
He tossed that amulet in the trash 5 years ago. It was a terrible moment – and definitely filmed in an open-ended way so that its return seemed inevitable. It was almost like Castiel’s words – “worthless” – de-valued it for Dean totally – it was a terrible word-choice. But ultimately, it’s just a necklace. It isn’t the relationship.
There was a beautiful space opened up around the necklace. AND, Dean hanging it on the rear view mirror in that totally silent final scene. Killer.
It’s closed for me. Anything now would be anti-climactic.
The idea is that Sam picked the amulet out of the trash can at the end of “Dark Side of the Moon” and has had it ever since, but doesn’t want to give it back to Dean because he’s afraid Dean will react badly.