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Ooooh …. I loved this episode.
Me too! So much great Donna/Jody stuff – really fun pairing.
and while I gather my thoughts:
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/dec/03/100-brains-go-missing-from-university
The URL says it all.
Get on the case, boys!
hahahaha I saw that in my FB feed this morning. What the HELL.
Supernatural and The Band…. so nice.
Oh man, I know. That just made me so happy.
Right, Helena, that was pretty great, hey!? The monster plot and Monologue of My Motives was a bit of a damp squib (and shouldn’t the Winchester entrance to the convention have felt a bit more like this?) but Jodie and Donna did not disappoint, and I need them to always be saving-people-hunting-things friends possibly with benefits, and if they ever die I for one will show no mercy.
There’s a whole parallel thing going, and start of a hunting career vs end, and does Doug = Crowley? And how long will Donna’s amazing smiles last? And was Deputy Douche the evil twin of Dean’s deputy friend from Yellow Fever? And will Sam ever truly be proud enough of his Kinko’s skills?
hahaha Fear and Loathing! Yes, I agree – the entrance was kind of “meh” even though The Band was playing beneath it – could have made more of it.
Jody and Donna were awesome together. Donna’s chipper-ness was so off-putting to Jody at first (some of her reactions) – but it’s really quite a strong outlook, she is basically deciding to be an optimistic friendly person, even though she has this shitty sad background with her ex-husband. Jody is like, “why are you being so nice to me???” Ha. It was great.
Deputy Douche was definitely Blushing Deputy’s evil twin. He FELT the attraction to Dean, but instead of just being like, “Hi. You’re so cute” like Blushing Deputy did, he got all WEIRD. Which, for Dean, is like just another day at the office. How often do men do that to him? Always. Watching Sam deal with it, as though it’s a familiar thing for him to witness as well, was funny. Like, Oh God, here we go again. It was great watching Dean handle it.
Also, the fact that Sam still uses Kinko’s. They need a scanner. Or they need to install a printer in the bunker.
(and shouldn’t the Winchester entrance to the convention have felt a bit more like this?)
Well, obviously, but maybe they’re saving it all for the Vegas episode. In the meantime I’ll just edit this in to my copy and dream.
// The monster plot and Monologue of My Motives was a bit of a damp squib //
Yeah, kind of the usual Vampire Rentamob, (and recycling, really). But on the plus side for me at least the monologue was not quite as bad as some so far this season (Calliope’s excepted). Usually I’m just waiting for the monologuer to just shut up and get killed but there was a bit more actually going on in the scene as Evil Woodstock Girl monoblathered on and on, (getting flirty with Dean in a genuinely uncomfortable moment) and actual suspense was generated, what with Sheriff Toothy McVampire getting beheaded.
//There’s a whole parallel thing going, and start of a hunting career vs end//
Please god, if there has to be a spinoff, it be Jodio and Donna. Loved that they finally bond over monsters and professional competence.
Loved that Sheriff Cupcake McMarvellous used her glasses to saw through her bonds. Whatever hangups that woman has, she doesn’t underestimate herself as a professional.
//Supernatural and The Band…. so nice.//
Heather, yes, what a treat.
//And was Deputy Douche the evil twin of Dean’s deputy friend from Yellow Fever? //
Some grade-A stealth-flirting going there – good work, Dean. Otherwise, your lights were a bit dimmed during this episode, and you were very defensive towards Jodie … and all that stuff to Sam at the end? I wouldn’t buy even with a fake credit card. Hmm.
There were some great lines in this episode. The conversation about the fake job had me in stitches. I’m just imagining the state of the house when Jodie gets back after Annie’s weekend of boozing with bad boys and burning down the back garden.
// Evil Woodstock Girl // hahahaha
Dean: “I’m not in the mood.”
I guess I don’t understand the smiley faces on the belts? Is it like … a badge on a jacket?
// I’m just imagining the state of the house when Jodie gets back after Annie’s weekend of boozing with bad boys and burning down the back garden. //
hahaha I know!! “Do I hear firecrackers?”
I know, I think Dean – learning that Sam and Jody were talking about him (yuk), then made him say “I felt like me in there” (which, honestly, is one of the funniest lines on the show ever? Like: in SPN world, that’s a GOOD thing, but what that means is he felt like himself while beheading a bunch of vampires. Hysterical.) There may have been more underlying motivations there than I realized at first – I’m a slow processor. But I liked that he’s not shutting people out. It’s different. Jody felt his bullshit coming at her, and made the offer AGAIN, and basically forced him to say “Thanks, I appreciate it …”
I don’t know. I kind of like all of it, as messed up as it all still is. It’s interesting behavior.
Without a “big bad” this season there seems to be little sense of urgency in season ten’s episodes. The pace has slowed to a crawl. Did we really need to see Sam type in an address on his phone?
I loved Jody and Donna together. I suspect an “organic”, to quote the Powers-That-Be, spin-off in the works featuring Jody, Annie, Donna and Cole. All good actors who could carry a show. Maybe I’m just hoping! I think that would be really good. Jody has to quit her job to chase after Annie and becomes a hunter, Donna takes on the Bobby role, and Cole and Jody (and Annie) work together.
Dean, with all his unusual chattiness regarding his emotional state, is lying, methinks. I still want to know what’s going on with him and am so curious as to where they are going with the story. It isn’t obvious yet. I just wish each episode had more intensity than they do now.
// Did we really need to see Sam type in an address on his phone? //
Ha. Yeah. That was pretty pointless.
I don’t know, I like the looser loosey-goosey episodes, and Season 9 had enough unremitting intensity to make us all need a long long nap. It’s a long season, they need to pace themselves.
Without a big bad, there’s definitely a lessening of urgency – but I’m okay with it. We have a long ways to go. Things’ll get uglier soon enough. The midseason finales are always brutal.
This episode was in the same vein for me as “Ask Jeeves”….I didn’t love it but it definitely had some very enjoyable moments.
Jody is great and I always enjoy seeing her. Pairing her and Donna together was a goldmine! I see the beginning of a beautiful friendship and I would totally vote for a spin-off with those two. Every scene with Jody on the phone with Annie made me laugh. The female vampire character was interesting…icky flirting and all. Poor Dean….always with the female vamps coming on to him.
The next episode finally deals directly with the MOC again. I must say I’m ready. After those intense first few episodes of the season and the sheer wonderfulness of “Fan Fiction”, I’ve had a harder time enjoying the lighter toned MOTW episodes like this one and “Ask Jeeves.” I know this is Supernatural’s normal pattern, but this is the first season I have ever had to watch episode by episode and it’s making me a very impatient girl!! :-)
Michelle – I loved the ups and downs of Jody and Donna’s relationship – really nice flow to it. They even had a nice FIGHT – which is definitely the beginning of a beautiful friendship!! Donna’s crack about the husband was a zinger – and Kim Rhodes reacted gorgeously. Just a trance of loss.
Second half of the season is when things will start getting crazy again.
I rather loved this entire episode – although the huuuuuge group confessional monologue that ended the thing was … really? Come on, enough with that trope. Everyone just stands around narrating their lives and motivations?
Notes I jotted down:
May be my favorite blood splash …. like, ever?
“Save you a seat, Jodes.” Jodes! And then “Jodeo.” Dying.
“This is my first time hosting one of these things …” (someone in the crowd murmurs “Obviously”)
I love that Alex ISN’T head of the cheerleader squad and has instead become a stoner who sets off firecrackers in the back yard. Good. Life isn’t perfect. People are flawed. People don’t get “fixed” right away.
Sam and Jody. Can’t get enough of those two.
“Don’t ya go smoking, Howie.” “Just watch your Top Model.”
“Hiya Len. How’s that seltzer treatin’ ya?” I mean ….
Doug dancing. I love that actor, I don’t even know who he is.
Oh God, THE BAND.
“Looking for the Sheriff.” All hands raise. “… of Hibbing.”
The sexually tense standoff between Dean and the Deputy. Gorgeous.
“Try not to be so defensive about your pretend job.” “This badge means something.” “I made it at Kinko’s.”
Gun Expo: girlie guns to take to the gym. Great Girl Bonding moment.
Jody: “You are just a DOUCHE.”
Great scene with Jody and Donna. I am so glad SPN put them together. More, please!!
LOVE the second scene between Dean and the Deputy. With the teeny weeny handcuffs and the bedroom eyes and the seduction going on. Super awesome. Dean getting what he wants, working someone over, manipulating them, Dean at his best.
There’s some interesting stuff going on with Dean right now. He’s coming to Sam with stuff, he’s initiating conversations about feelings like at the end, although he’s obviously putting a Happy Smile on something that is clearly still going on … he’s … it’s just very different. Or at least he’s forthcoming when Sam checks in. Holding onto his arm, though, is troubling – but that’s good, too. What would Dean be without lies and withholding?
I love that Sam has been calling Jody to talk about Dean. I get why Dean hates it, but I love to imagine those conversations.
“She just pulled out a machete!” Donna to Sam and Dean.
“I SAW you with your vampire face.”
I really liked this episode. (Maybe because there were no angels? Sigh. The angels bring me DOWN. Sorry, angels. This one feels like old-school Supernatural, and I also like the small expansion of the ensemble at this stage of the game. Donna. I love her!)
Dean giving Sam the puppy eyes at the beginning to get him to agree to the hunt…..
Yeah, I liked that.
I don’t recall SPN using The Band as a soundtrack before – am I missing something?
I don’t remember The Band showing up before, which is part of what was so arresting. When those first few notes started playing, it just seemed so warm and bright, but also a bit strange: like full sunlight, or if a current chart-topper started playing, or if Jerry Seinfeld showed up in a role.
Oh man I loved the don’t be so defensive over your fake job exchange so much. And loved Dean’s dances with the deputy. And even though I also loved Donna and Jodie, I feel protective towards Donna. Yes, she knows about monsters now, but she doesn’t really know the full horror yet. It’s too late for Jodie, she saw her zombie son eating her husband and you can’t really some back from that. But I don’t want Donna traumatized, and if this show has a motto, it definitely involves hunting and trauma.
The monster monologues make me laugh, but also make me miss spirits. Ghosts didn’t tell you their motivation, the guys had to figure that part out on their own.
I also feel like Dean is different right now and I totally dig it. The changes make me excited and they allow for room between Sam and Dean to discover again.
// I feel protective towards Donna. //
I know!! Honestly, that big huge trembling closeup of her face after she saw the vampire … soooo good. I mean, that’s exactly how a normal person would respond!!
Hopefully she can decompress all of it with her new BFF, but … I don’t want anything to happen to her.
and I love how Dean just blithely said to her, “Suck the fat out of you?” No judgment. Somehow he said that with zero judgment. hahahaha
There are two The Band moments, ‘The Weight’ and the vamps’ hangout, Cripple Creek Road.
Aw.
Oh, and a Dylan reference, ‘North Country Hotel’.
Julie Klein, who are you?
This is some serious Baby Boomer music. John Winchester’s music.
Vegas episode Helena, oh my god, bring it on! All that extra colour in the frame will finally make sense!
The Weight is incredible and having the Impala pull to a stop right in our faces with it playing in the background made me feel GOOD. But it’s a heavyweight song, quality-wise and thematically, to pull out for a driving scene!
Jody and Donna are a classic buddy combo and Donna’s purposeful cheer is delightful. I love how it doesn’t stop her from being sharp as hell and using the cheer as a way in. Heather, I am a bit worried about her too! Maybe she will be able to pull a Garth and remain relatively upbeat about the whole thing (as opposed to pulling a Garth and turning into a werewolf).
It had some strange cuts, right? The product-placement-y phone stuff, and some of the abrupt switches between the Sam-Dean and Jody-Donna stories (although I LOVED the transition from Donna walking out of the gear room past Dean).
Sheila your notes are bascially my reaction too! I also enjoyed Sheriff Vampire. I won’t say it’s entirely because he sounded like Mark Ruffalo. But that’s not NOT the reason.
The belt thing was to show how they kept the belt from the graffiti-ing victim from the cold open. I don’t really understand the point of the “use every part” business though. How does that relate to anything? It’s pretty disconnected, which is maybe why it had to be resolved through knocking Sam out — AGAIN, oh, his poor beautiful head — and tying them all up with rope that could be used as an anchor cable — AGAIN. I guess they spared us most of the sixteen hours of monologue that would have been required for Donna and Dean to cut through that stuff (when really rope that thick would be terribly insecure to knot around something as small as hands).
This four-or-five episode landslide of “Are you OK?” “Yes I am OK” “Are you OK now” “Yes now I am also OK and a little bit not OK” talk is pinging hard because I’m at the start of a rewatch at the moment and Sam’s hallucinations have Dean freaking OUT. It’s call-and-response; it’s practically Pavlovian. And it’s not particularly healthy or helpful or effective. But we are way more in the dark about Dean’s state of mind, here. More in the dark than Dean himself is, which is an interesting place to be.
// purposeful cheer // What a great way to put it.
People like that are often underestimated and condescended to – as we see in the episode. Jody does it too. One of the most delightful parts of this story was seeing Jody finally “get” how smart Donna is, and sort of invest herself in nobody HURTING this fabulous woman.
OMG, he did sound like Mark Ruffalo. That soft gentle voice. Have you seen Foxcatcher yet? Ruffalo is great. Talk about your sexual hothouse nightmare. (Were we? Aren’t we always?) Good LORD.
Haha good call on the thick rope.
Yeah, I got a little lost on what this vampire tribe was doing, and what their whole thing was. Belts? Pants that were too big? Eating everything down to the bone? Hakuna Matata, I don’t know.
// It’s call-and-response; it’s practically Pavlovian. And it’s not particularly healthy or helpful or effective. //
Yeah, definitely. It’s taking your emotional temperature every hour on the hour. No good can come from that. That whole hallucinations plot-line … super upsetting. JP rocks it.
I am enjoying Dean’s opaqueness. It’s all rather interesting to me, like he’s trying to snap back to being himself – but he’s one degree removed. He can feel it inside. He’s not “himself” anymore. And it’s different from his return from Purgatory, where he clearly could chalk all of that up to PTSD. (some of JA’s best acting in the whole series!) But there, he could talk himself off the ledge, and remind himself that he wasn’t in 360 degree combat anymore, it’s okay, it’s okay. Here … he doesn’t know if he’s okay.
Also – his blunt deadpan line: “You’re a vampire. You’re scum.” He seemed pretty on the level with that, and I flashed on Benny. Maybe he wasn’t making that connection, or maybe things have changed for him. I don’t know. But it did seem rather … Gordon-ish … to say that, even after he has been intimate with a vampire and compromised all of his belief system to be friends with the guy.
I may have had Gordon on the brain, though, since I was working on “Hunted” while I watched the latest episode.
It’s kind of fun – to do current episodes along with past. The consistency of the show is REALLY highlighted for me this way. Definitely some unevenness but overall … so many connections to make.
//But it’s a heavyweight song, quality-wise and thematically, to pull out for a driving scene!//
It’s such a great choice. I noticed it starts playing while the camera is still on Donna so I took it not as bad pun about her body size, but about the emotional burdens she and Jodie as well as Dean and Sam are carrying, and how hard, and at times necessary it is to share them. I enjoyed all the emotional to and fro about ‘having crosses to bear’ – grief, loss, the pain of a relationship gone wrong. Interesting mirroring going on: Donna trying to be befriend with Jodie, not (just) out of her own neediness but because she sees Jodie’s having a hard time, and Jodie’s first reaction being to bat her away, then when Jodie’s reaches to Dean, he tries to bat her away too.
Loads of interesting stuff happening about letting down defenses, honesty (or lack of it), friendship, proper grown-up men-and-women stuff, mostly thanks to Sheriff Hanscombe who doesn’t live her life by Winchester Belljar rules.
I love this take on it, Helena. Yes, I can see that too. Jody is very Winchester-ish, a tough gal, a stiff upper lip kind of person – and Donna is just not an entity she understands at first. And Donna is no dummy and yes, immediately clocks Jody as having problems and needing a friend. Giving so much time in the episode to characters who aren’t Sam and Dean was kind of great – they really thought about this dynamic, and its comedic and dramatic possibilities. Really satisfying! Especially because they’re women – and how often do women interact with one another on the show? This may be the first episode that passes the Bechdel Test (I have mixed feelings about the Test, but it is definitely a helpful gauge to remind ourselves how women are so often sidelined in plots.)
I like that Jody believes in God. It is an interesting element to her character. Faith is mostly LAMPOONED in SPN – but hers is quiet and personal and a choice – she uses it to understand her own life, and help her through dark moments. She reminds me of my mother in that way.
// the emotional burdens she and Jodie as well as Dean and Sam are carrying, and how hard, and at times necessary it is to share them. //
Yes! Jody reaching out to Dean is a perfect example. Who the hell can this guy talk to? And he’s just too close to Sam to have their conversations do much good – which is great. Just like Jessie observed. They’re just too in it with each other. And Bobby is gone.
Donna is like Garth in a way. She has a cheerful disposition – and she has made the choice to look on the bright side. It’s terrible to watch her ex-husband hurt her – but I LOVED that she read Jody the riot act for defending her. She wasn’t grateful. She was offended. It felt extremely real. She’s got some backbone.
Can I just leave this here for you?
Because some of you seemed to be interested in the Dylan connection…
…and I meant to include this link, but obviously I don’t know how this page works
Jenny Klein’s tweet
:) Ha, that’s great.
The second I saw the title of the episode, I thought … Dylan?
It would be like calling an episode “Tupelo 911.” You’d be like …. Elvis?
//This may be the first episode that passes the Bechdel Test //
FWIW I thing Ann Annie etc may well be the first, and no surprise that Jodie is central to that one as well. Her character brings out such a lot of great stuff.
What I really enjoy about Donna is that, as I see it, she’s not ‘on a journey’ to better self esteem, whatever. She doesn’t need to ‘find her courage’, it’s already there. She’s pretty cool as she is, and all she needs is for people to see her.
//I am enjoying Dean’s opaqueness.//
Me too. That’s what I meant by having the ‘lights dimmed’, like he’s standing back from himself a bit, observing. It’s been going on for a while, like the ‘Dad’s whisper’ subtext we’re talking about in Season 2, and I’m very curious as to where it’s all going.
Yes, you’re right about Alex Annie!!
Women are so absent, usually, that when they come in they bring all this interesting stuff with them – and how much did I love Sam and Dean dealing with this OTHER power-duo in Jody and Donna. Sam and Dean watching “the girls” and their dynamic – so funny and entertaining.
When the two of them bust into the hotel room – and I loved how Jody and Donna spoke AT Dean and Sam simultaneously: “He’s a vampire!” “She just took out a machete!” Those female voices barking at Sam and Dean – the two of them looking from one woman to the other. Great stuff.
// She’s pretty cool as she is //
So true. I love that element of her character – it was even there in The Purge. She’s a good actress. The pain is there. But she’s a tough cookie. She’ll get through it, you’re darn tootin’ she will!
//the Dylan connection…//
Thanks! I’m no Dylan expert, though I have spent the past few weeks listening exclusively to Blood on the Tracks (on itunes, Sheila.)
Nice! Dylan just played out in Brooklyn last week, I think – a friend of mine went. Such a legend!
//sixteen hours of monologue that would have been required for Donna and Dean to cut through that stuff (//
Maybe they were vampirates. You know, tie the victim up, rig a ship, what’s the diff.
We just have to thank the lord they didn’t used plastic ties otherwise we would have been stuck in that barn forever.
And whatever happened to that knife up the sleeve Dean and Sam used to carry?
Octovamp?
I haven’t read all the comments yet, but I’m glad to see this episode has been talked about so much. I am in love with Donna and Jodie. What a powerful duo!
Otherwise: that was a wonky plot, right?
Dean: All vampires are scum? What about Benny? Don’t forget Benny. I’ll never forget Benny. Oh, Benny.
Watching Dean trying to, what exactly? Open up about the Mark, try to reassure himself? It feels like watching an accident in slow motion… Here comes the cliff…
Right? And the promo for next week … those blank looks on Dean’s face – I LOOOOOVE it when he goes blank. It’s so disturbing.
and yeah, Benny – I mentioned that upthread. Kind of a startling moment, yes?
Perhaps his friendship with Benny looks very different to him now, now that he’s gone all dark side. :(
//Perhaps his friendship with Benny looks very different to him now, now that he’s gone all dark side. :(//
Never!! (Am working on a vampire picture, so have been watching a lot of Benny and …sob! it’s so sad!)
It’s just too longwinded to say, 99.9% of vampires are scum, except this one particular vampire with lovely blue eyes whom I had a very complicated history, including bringing him back to life then killing his girlfriend and then killing him again to save my brother (who’s just over there, by the way), while all the time you are sawing frantically at some organic coir rope with some annoying, grubby vampire girl with no sense of personal space prancing around in front of you.
And frankly it’s noone’s beeswax but Dean’s, certainly not Evil Woodstock Vamp’s. If you’re a bit frazzled, as Dean clearly is, it can be just to painful to look at complicated stuff like that and have to parse it out in front of other people, let alone to yourself. Just keep it simple: ‘Vampires are scum.’ Or, alternatively ‘Fuck off.’
Yeah, I can see all that! But still, there may be something else going on there – I would love Benny to come up again, even as a reference – to see where Dean might be at with it. Re-visit it. It’s been a while. And Dean is so opaque right now. It’s great, nothing wrong with it – but these people who got under his skin – Benny – what are his thoughts about them now? It’s another example of a friend who was absent in Season 9, who might have been able to stop what was happening by providing an outside perspective. Benny and Charlie, really. They would have been the only ones who could have brought Dean up short. If Castiel couldn’t do it, then who could?
Dean and Benny … the. best. thing. The hug in the opening episode of Season 8. One of the most shocking moments in the entire series. We had never ever ever seen that Dean before. It was incredible.
and excited to see your vampire picture!
//Octovamp?//
hahaha! I’ll raise you Octocobra!
// It’s great, nothing wrong with it – but these people who got under his skin – Benny – what are his thoughts about them now? //
No, I get that too. And it would be fascinating.
and the mind-fuck of Crowley … I don’t think we’ve even begun to tap into what that relationship has done to Dean and how he sees himself (although the glimpses of Dean’s face in next week’s episode gave me goosebumps.) He looks like a shell-shocked war orphan. The blankness on his face. Being “owned” by Crowley. Poor Dean.
So a relationship he CHOSE – with full consent – the relationship with Benny – might start to look very different because of Crowley’s grooming of him. Nasty.
Anyway, we shall see!
//and excited to see your vampire picture!//
It’s been the hardest one so far to ‘get’. Supernatural has a particular take on vampires, so I’ve been spending a lot of time going through all the vampire episodes. They all reflect/project something slightly different. Plus there’s so much vampire imagery around … hard to find an unique way in, but at the moment it’s a toss up between Benny and Mama vampire of the Alex Annie episode.
// Right? And the promo for next week … those blank looks on Dean’s face – I LOOOOOVE it when he goes blank. It’s so disturbing. //
I stay away even from stills. I like to be surprised. I didn’t even know Donna and Jodie were back until you wrote it here. But what you’re saying intrigues me. Here… comes… the… cliff…
// and yeah, Benny – I mentioned that upthread. Kind of a startling moment, yes?//
// (Just keep it simple: ‘Vampires are scum.’ Or, alternatively ‘Fuck off.’)//
Helena, you explained it so well – of course, we know it’s not the time and place to be subtle about this. Still, I yelled at him: what about Benny? Because: Benny. In my wildest dreams, I go to Purgatory to get him back myself. They’re my dreams, I am allowed.
// (Am working on a vampire picture, so have been watching a lot of Benny and …sob! it’s so sad!) //
Oh, you do pictures? Where where where?
// but these people who got under his skin – Benny – what are his thoughts about them now? //
I’ve been wondering about this too.
// Dean and Benny … the. best. thing. The hug in the opening episode of Season 8. One of the most shocking moments in the entire series. We had never ever ever seen that Dean before. It was incredible.//
Exactly. It’s great that such a thing can be shocking. I love Dean post-Purgatory. He’s so different, but it’s hard to pinpoint how. So subtle.
(It also made me giggle a lot, because: dude, you came back from Purgatory with this huge dude inside of you. Don’t ever make gay jokes at Sam, now. He was inside you! I’m a very mature woman.)
Alex smokes weed under the bleachers, and the authority figure says it’s OK. It’s better than the alternative. I love Supernatural relationship’s with booze and drugs. It never says « It’s great, you should all get high all the time and fuck the consequences ». But it acknowledges that life is hard, and that you find comfort where you can. Sometimes what used to be a coping mechanism ends up biting you in the ass, and sometimes it’s better than the alternative. And it doesn’t make you a piece of shit. Bobby may be the town drunk, but he’s a smart town drunk who reads latin and Japanese and can build a bunker in one weekend.
It’s messy. There’s no perfect answer. I love that.
I’d love to hear your thoughts about the Bedchel Test. I’m not saying it’s completely pointless, but I think it’s limitative.
– Does your sauce have garlic?
– No.
– Then it’s not good.
Wait, what?
Lyrie – your comments are so entertaining. I love them. Thank you!
I’ll let Helena provide a link to her gorgeous Tumblr of Supernatural artwork. She’s so talented, it’s awesome stuff. :)
// dude, you came back from Purgatory with this huge dude inside of you. //
haha. You know, you kind of HAVE to be friends with someone after THAT.
// Alex smokes weed under the bleachers, and the authority figure says it’s OK. //
That’s so funny! Right, her cop foster parent eye-rolls, “Whatevs, it could be worse.” I agree: alcoholism is clearly an issue, but yes, it didn’t stop Bobby – and one of my favorite mini-arcs is Dean basically becoming an alcoholic (or more of one) after Bobby’s death. And they DID deal with it but they also DIDN’T deal with it. It was a phase Dean went through, Sam expressed concern, let it go, Dean moved on … it’s kind of radical when you think about it. It’s grownup time.
And I love the glimpse we got of Jody as a young woman with her hot motorcycle boyfriend, being rebellious herself. I can totally see that.
I think the original Bechdel Test is a helpful model to show the unnecessary sidelining of women in certain types of plots – but now it’s used (wrongly) as a checklist as to whether or not a film “passes muster.” I certainly can’t abide by THAT noise. If you look at the Bechdel Test like “If a film does not pass the Bechdel Test, then the story is retro and bad and not worth watching” (and I’ve seen it used that way) then you are basically wiping out most of cinema, and forget it, if you do that, you’re being silly.
I think being diverse in casting is super important – but I don’t think any single artist should feel beholden to “follow” the Bechdel Test, if that’s not the story they want to tell. That was my issue with those who shrieked about misogyny after “Wolf of Wall Street.” Yes. Lots of misogyny there. Because the characters are pigs and assclowns and misogynists. It’s also directed by Martin Scorsese, who has always been interested in testosterone unchecked and how UGLY it is. What, he’s supposed to undermine his own message by having a moment where he explains in no uncertain terms that Jordan Belfort is a dick? Of COURSE he’s a dick. And of course he sees women as expendable, and whores. That’s the world he comes from. It may not be everyone’s cup of tea – but honestly, take the work at its face value and go from there. Not everything is meant to be a lovely and uplifting message.
I’m a big girl. I am perfectly capable of watching an all-male movie with bimbos in the background and know that that is not reminding me of my “place.” Or, if it is trying to tell me what they think of me and my sex, then I am perfectly capable of saying, “Eff you!” to dumb films that treat women like shit.
I definitely think the Bechdel Test can be helpful – and sometimes male writers definitely need to be reminded that women exist outside of relationship to men. But yeah, it has its limits. Your “then it’s not good” example is a perfect representation of those limits.
This episode wins points with me just because of Sheriff Vampire. The actor was in a popular Canadian sitcom: he played Hank on Corner Gas.
I’ve really been enjoying Season 10 so far. I like this slower pace. I loved the big story arc of the first 5 seasons—and I’m one of those people who thinks that the show will never be as good as it was then—but I don’t need or want SPN to have such high stakes anymore. How do you top the apocalypse? I’ve said it before, but at this point I just want to see them dealing with day-to-day life. So yeah, I’ve been loving this season, as imperfect as it has been.
I also want to see a spin-off buddy hunter/cop show with Jody and Donna. It would be amazing.
May – Always excellent to hear from you.
I like the slower pace, too. It’ll be interesting to see where they go, with the Crowley’s mum and the Mark – but it has a distinctly different feeling than, say, Season 7 – which (despite the fact that there are some awesome episodes) felt like they somehow felt obliged to create a “Big Bad”, after all the madness of the apocalypse. That Leviathan plot-line didn’t exactly work for me – although I love Dick Roman and Frank and Charlie, and there’s a lot of great stuff going on there.
So yeah, I’m enjoying the leisure – the sense that each episode is its own thing, with a couple of bread crumbs showing up in each one – but nothing too forced.
Lyrie, follow the Oracles of Ashes link on Sheila’s page (under art, I think) or just click on my name.
//In my wildest dreams, I go to Purgatory to get him back myself. They’re my dreams, I am allowed.//
I’ll put you in my picture somewhere.
Sheila — //Always excellent to hear from you.//
Aw, thanks! I just love it here. I love your reviews and recaps! I love the conversations in the comments! (Though I haven’t had as much time to comment lately. I’ve been busy? I’m not sure what exactly has happened, though I’ve suddenly found myself with less time to comment than I had before. I’m still reading everything, though!)
//but it has a distinctly different feeling than, say, Season 7 – which (despite the fact that there are some awesome episodes) felt like they somehow felt obliged to create a “Big Bad”, after all the madness of the apocalypse . . .So yeah, I’m enjoying the leisure – the sense that each episode is its own thing, with a couple of bread crumbs showing up in each one – but nothing too forced.//
I think that is the key difference. Many of the “Big Bads” since season 6 have felt forced. Sure, there were plenty of missteps in 1 through 5, but overall it felt like a very natural development. Stupidly high stakes seem to be a general problem with pop culture these days (I love comic books movies as much as the next nerd, but I’m already sick of explosions), so it has started to feel like lazy writing to me.
Sheila,
// your comments are so entertaining. I love them. Thank you! //
Really? Wow, thank YOU.
Re: alcoholism: // it’s kind of radical when you think about it. It’s grownup time. //
Exactly. And it seems to me that a lot of things in this show would be much more praised if this were not a genre show, or if it were on another channel (was? were? I can see I’m having a grammar problem, I just don’t know the answer). Instead, they just go more or less unnoticed.
// but now it’s used (wrongly) as a checklist as to whether or not a film “passes muster.” […] if you do that, you’re being silly. //
I don’t know the original Bedchel Test, but yes, that checklist thing you talk about is what annoys me. It can be a useful tool, but it’s just that: a tool. It does not give you The Truth about the value of a movie. And quite frankly, I think you have to be a little thick to need it systematically to judge the level misogyny of movies.
Anyway, thank you for developing.
// follow the Oracles of Ashes link on Sheila’s page (under art, I think) or just click on my name. //
Wow, Helena, your drawings are amazing ! I love them all. « In a hole in the ground… » did not make me cry at all, I just had something in my eyes. Yes, in both eyes.
The Sleep of Reason Produces Clowns… Incredible ! Funny, scary, sad, beautiful all at once ! You’re very talented.
// I’ll put you in my picture somewhere. //
That would be awesome. I would print it and cherish it, and when I’m a very old lady, I would show it to the nurses: «Look, a long time ago, I saved a nice handsome vampire from Purgatory. You know, I was born the same year as Sam Winchester. No, I don’t want to go to sleep, I’m fine. His name was Benny, and… No, I don’t need an injection, leave me alone, you evil bitch. Exorcisamus te, omnis immundus spiritus… You will pay for putting me in restraints! Omnis satanica potestas, omnis incursio… Benny, where are you? Come help me, BENNYYYYYYY!»
I love that the Bechdel test was conceived as a cartoon conversation between two lesbian women about the kind of films they’d like to see. Actually, the requirements are minimal.
It was just pointing out something we took for granted in the movies, the lack of women doing things not related to men in films. I don’t think it was ever originated to be a tool for evaluating ‘quality,’ or lack of gender bias, it just points out a fundamental, glaring lack. Its critics point out that it’s a blunt instrument that doesn’t measure many other things which may indicate quality, lack of gender bias, etc. They’re right, but it was never, ever about that. Has it served its purpose? Not so sure – there are still conversations going on about adding ‘female stuff’ (blerg) to action movies, female characters are edited out of merchandise (Guardians of the Galaxy case in point) because it ‘won’t sell’, etc, etc ad nauseam. And the Bechdel test of course now a handy stick to continue to beat women and their concerns. But in reality,when you think about it, its parameters are so modest.
Helena – Yes, it never started out as a way to evaluate quality – and when it IS used that way, or wielded like a battering ram of social justice – obviously it loses its effectiveness as a talking point. But you’re right: it’s the simplicity and modesty of the Test that is still so striking and is amazing when you consider how much writers (mostly) STILL don’t get it. It’s an interesting conversation.
I was talking to this filmmaker from Norway at last year’s Ebertfest, and he was telling me that since most funding comes from the Norwegian government for the arts, every script goes through an approval process by committee – a committee not concerned with art, but with diverse representation: are there enough women in the film? Why is this person a minority? Why isn’t this person a minority? He wasn’t complaining – or, he kind of was – but he was just talking about the challenges of getting scripts through that process, and the hoops you have to go through, with a sort of imposed checklist on every script.
What’s amazing about the Bechdel Test is that once it was “out there”, once it reached critical mass and everyone had absorbed it and what it meant – it really changed the game, (at least in terms of analysis – there’s still a ways to go in seeing it come to fruition in actual stories), in a REALLY meaningful way. Like: once you read the damn Test, it was impossible to un-see it, and to not see how much that type of conversation about female characters in film (or television) was necessary. It’s so blindingly obvious!! It goes even deeper than stereotypes. It’s really about how characters function in a story.
I have this beef with a lot of big shot male novelists too, and their depiction of women. They can imagine entire worlds, but they cannot imagine the inner life of a woman. They are literally blind. It’s not just about sexualizing them or objectifying them – it’s way more basic than that. They are unable to imagine women in any three-dimensional way, outside of their connection to a man. And these guys win Pulitzer Prizes. I think a lot of female novelists today are kicking men’s asses, in terms of their ability to imagine characters who are not their gender (Hilary Mantel comes to mind).
//«Look, a long time ago, I saved a nice handsome vampire from Purgatory …//
Lyrie, thanks, and I, er, may need a bit of time for this one.
About the test: I hope I made it clear I don’t criticize the thing in itself, but how it’s used. It may not have been a tool, just an interesting remark, but that’s how it’s used now. And pretty often, when I see it referenced, the reflection does not go beyond the simple observation that It Does Not Pass. And?
// And the Bechdel test of course now a handy stick to continue to beat women and their concerns. //
It is?
// Lyrie, thanks, and I, er, may need a bit of time for this one. //
It’s OK, I got it. Now, don’t be jealous, I’m not here to overshadow you with my incredible gift. I was just born this way. Look: http://s25.postimg.org/jtwbz9nni/Page_1_Benny_Saved.jpg
//About the test: I hope I made it clear I don’t criticize the thing in itself,//
absolutely, but you’re free to do that anyway, so fire away at it if you want.
//It’s OK, I got it. Now, don’t be jealous, I’m not here to overshadow you with my incredible gift. I was just born this way. Look://
This, on the other hand, is beyond criticism. Genius, Lyrie! I can see this is only page one, so more must be underway, no? A whole graphic novel? You’ve got Benny and his beard and his henleys down to a t. And you’ve, er, cut your arms off?
Okay I just watched the episode again and noticed a funny moment I missed the first time around because I was bored by the third-act monologue.
Head Hippie Chick is leering at Len, and running the show, and she says, “A vampire who doesn’t feed is like …. is like ….”
And then some other vampire fills in the blank for her: “a tiger eating a salad.”
She may be a Head Honcho but she hasn’t realized yet that you should not start a simile that you can’t finish.
Helena, Sheila : I can’t express myself with as much nuance as I’d like in english, and it is sooo frustrating to be limited because of the language. It’s really too bad, because this conversation is really interesting.
I’ll keep doing terrible drawings of people with no feet and no hands instead. Merde.
Sheila: //This may be the first episode that passes the Bechdel Test//
I agree with all y’all’s thoughts on the Bechdel Test regarding its usefulness or lack thereof in criticism. However, I did want to point out that almost every episode so far this season has passed the Bechdel Test.
“Black” – Hannah and Adina (the other female angel) talk about angels and freedom. (For those interested in female representation in general, the episode also features Annemarie, another prominent female character.)
“Reichenbach” – Hannah and the tow truck driver discuss food. Somewhere, I heard that the driver’s name was Kim, but I’m not sure if she was truly named or not, so this might not pass the test.
“Soul Survivor” – Ditto “Black” (minus Annemarie).
“Paper Moon” – Werewolf sisters Kate and Tasha talk about all sorts of things, like the morality of eating human hearts.
“Fan Fiction” – Lots to choose from here! Maggie and Marie argue about shutting down the show.
“Ask Jeeves” – I’m not as sure about this one. I think Heddy/Beverly/Amber and Olivia might have exchanged a line or two not about men during Olivia’s villain monologue. I don’t think Heddy and Beverly ever talked to each other about something not a man, though.
“Girls, Girls, Girls” – Rowena, Catlin (brunette), and Elle (blonde) discuss magic.
“Hibbing 911” – Donna and Jody awesomeness! Also, they talk to the morgue attendant (Shelly, I think?) and the female vampire (Starr).
// “a tiger eating a salad.”//
Hahahaha! I heard this and thought of Sam.
Great list. This season has been great for lots of awesome (and occasionally not so awesome female characters.) Long may it continue.
//I’ll keep doing terrible drawings of people with no feet and no hands instead. Merde.
//
Lyrie, I hope that’s a promise!
One of the most delightful parts of this story was seeing Jody finally “get” how smart Donna is
Yes! Watching Jodie’s reactions to Donna shift over the course of the episode was one of my favourite things.
I don’t think I’ll get to see Foxcatcher for a while! :-( but it’s definitely on the list. Ruffalo and sexual hothouse nightmare in the same sentence? I’m there!! I am always there!
Benny, oh yes! I am looking forward to getting to season 8 in my glacial rewatch. I’ve only seen most of it once (Golem and the Guy I have seen an infinite number of times). Seasons 6 and 7 have so far risen much higher in my estimation than I previously held them. I probably ought to watch it again but S7 seems to be quite relevant to the current season. Just got done with Defending Your Life (incredible performances from all) and Dean’s difficulty in thinking of himself as anything but crap spackled together with guilt plays very interestingly off his present opaqueness.
“crap spackled together with guilt”. HA! Jessie, that is perfect.
I think Dean is the Big Bad. I am not convinced at all that he’s done with demon! Dean. Something bad IMO is coming :(
Lol Its Cat not Car. Oy