“Of course, I did nothing in Casablanca that I hadn’t done in twenty movies before that, and suddenly they discover I’m sexy. Any time that Ingrid Bergman looks at a man, he has sex appeal.”
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Something similar was said about Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers.
Right … something like “he gave her class, she gave him sex appeal”.
Yep. That was bulls..t, too.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. Society started into its downward spiral the moment young men stopped wanting to be like Humphrey Effing Bogart.
Best flick ever.
I have to agree with Mr. Lion on this one. Somewhere along the way, strength of character and will became an undesirable quality for young men and the society as a whole has been suffering ever since. Obviously there were some problems with earlier male archetypes, but I think we ended up throwing the baby out with the bathwater…
Blame the radical feminists, Mike (not the intelligent feminists)
And Alan Alda.
Oh let’s not blame the radical feminists for the way men turned out, shall we? I think the little dears can take the blame a-a-a-a-ll by themselves.
As far as aping Bogie, I have to say that worries me just a tad. I know Sheila…..you love him. I love him too. He was also a wife beater, an absent father, and a drunk. So, I guess my question is: Are we talking about emulating the man, or the fantasy on screen? No doubt he was one of America’s greatest actors, but that’s what he was…..an actor.
Hope I didn’t rain on anyone’s parade.
Sorry….I just want to add one more thing, cuz it sounds like I’m men bashing. I don’t mean to. I have the same problem with women who say they want to emulate Hepburn. No doubt a brilliant actress, but an admitted adulterer for most of her life. THIS is feminism?
Had to. I’ll shut up now.
Alex:
I think it has to do more with the characters he played – the “Bogart persona” – although, of course, elements of that showed up in his real life. I’m reading Lauren Bacall’s autobiography right now (because I’m a GEEK!!!) and the picture portrayed there is not exactly the same as his characters. Of course not! He was an actor!
He may have been a tough guy on screen – but, at least in the picture portrayed by Bacall – there was so much more. Pain, loss, fear, confusion … 3 terrible marriages, drunken scenes – he never wanted Bacall out of his sight – he was very vulnerable with her, afraid that she would hurt him.
Bogie standing with her, saying his wedding vows, with tears streaming down his face. Saying to her later, “I really never understood those words until now.”
Nearly puking in the delivery room, while Bacall delivered. He couldn’t take it, seeing her in pain.
Etc.
I admire him all the more for those sparks of human-ness.
Alex:
And I would never accuse you of man-bashing!! You???
Oh, and I get a little bit tired of feminism being blamed for everything. The fact that the radical feminists have hijacked the entire dialogue doesn’t mean that originally women had some good points and demanded some just changes.
Don’t argue. Don’t want to hear it.
I’m a woman, and I love men, I love men who are men (as anyone who reads me regularly knows). I’m old-fashioned, to some degree. But I won’t sell my sisters in the past short. I will not do it.
Although Gloria Steinem and Andrea Dworkin and NOW can take a long walk off a short pier, as far as I’m concerned.
I want nothing to do with those prissy pissed-off bitches.
Gloria Steinman can eat my ass. Agreed, sweetie.
:-)
Oh and Alex: What you said about Kate Hepburn reminded me of something … When she died, there was a great obituary in some huge newspaper. It was wonderful – except that it was written by a woman, who put the whole “She didn’t need a man – so she is someone for us to look up to today” spin on it.
First of all: Er – who the hell said we should look up to someone because she didn’t “need” a man? I want to need someone – most definitely – and I want him to need me. I don’t think being some kind of island of strength is necessarily an admirable quality. I love men. I want to be with one. This is not weak.
Second of all: that is SO NOT TRUE about Hepburn anyway!!
She said, in regards to Spencer: “I changed aspects of my personality that he didn’t like.”
She turned down work so she could be close to him. It was obviously a complex situation – between a man and a woman – and she lived alone, yes – but she gave her heart to Spencer.
Her comments are actually ANTI-feminist. “I felt it my obligation to always provide him with a peace and safe haven.”
Etc.
I find that very admirable. I always find the complexity and contradictions of human beings far more fascinating and admirable – than some SPIN on who we WANT them to be, because they fit in to our neat little world view.
Alex: HAHAHA
Hepburn was a great, great, great actress, and served a generation of movie and theatre fans well indeed. You’re absolutely in the right ball park, Sheila. People have a misunderstanding about Katie; that she was radical in her feminism, that she was a trailblazer of sorts, and that she was the first thinking woman’s thinker. None of this could be further from the truth, and this is what she told us all along. People would put labels on her in interveiws (which is why she rarely did them) and she’d look up and say:
“What the HELL are you talking about? I’m an actor, lucky to be working. I’m just damn lucky.”
She loved Tracey. He ruined her life, and brought her possibly the greatest joy she could have ever experienced. She moved her life around to suit him, and did whatever she could to make him happy. They were best freinds, and he was tortured throughout by his drinking, his guilt about his deaf son, and his loveless marriage to a lovely, sweet woman. Who by they way, was no idiot. She knew from the beginning what was going on, and never once brought it up. What exactly was she supposed to do in the 40’s, Catholic, and rasing 3 children…one with a hearing problem? Divorce??! I don’t think so.
Feminism is a relative term for us now. It means we sacrifice what we WANT to, not what we’re SUPPOSED to. There’s a difference.
Trivia:
In “On Golden Pond” the hat that Henry Fonda wears throughout the film was Spencer Tracey’s. Hepburn gave it to Fonda as a gift.
Did not know that about the On Golden Pond hat.
How strange and wonderful.
Sheila, just to clarify, my comment was specifically directed at Steinem, NOW, and such (Dworkin isn’t even worth mentioning). There are plenty of feminist role models to choose from, but it’s the radical man-bashers that get the airtime.
Abso-friggin-lutely, Ken.
Ken – It is unfortunate that the loud-mouth sex-phobic freaks get the air-time. I do hope we look back on this time with awe … like: How in the world did THOSE women become the leaders??
Red put her finger on the problem – radical elements in feminism did hijack the dialogue. I used to consider myself a feminist, but somewhere along the way it went from being about equal rights under the law and equal pay for equal work to Martha Burke chewing scenery as she rails about the horrible unfairness of those nasty old men at Augusta National Golf Club.
I would never want to go back to the old days, when it was basically unacceptable for men to even have feelings, much less discuss them. However, the radical feminists have shoved the pendulum much too far in the other direction. Their aim is emasculation, pure and simple. Our entire culture is suffering as a result of their success.