Buh-bye, Metatron!
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Gosh, you watched it.
Bye, Metatron. I used to hate you but you kind of were not absolutely terrible by the end.
Also, hello Kev- oh, wait, he’s gone.
Kevin’s scene was short and sweet. But way too short–
Was he promoted to angel? Archangel? (since Gabriel’s dead, need a fourth?)
I like this theory!
This episode didn’t grab my attention for whatever reason and now I really cannot remember why they brought in that new prophet. I know he seemed to help locate Amara, yeah? But then he went back…somewhere. But not to his fogged out poisoned home, I guess. They should have used Kevin one last time.
I feel like this was another episode that was primarily about getting the pieces into their proper place, and maybe pulling out a thread or two for season 12–that prophet, for example, who I liked. I feel like that actor has been on the show before, does anyone know?
It felt a bit disjointed to me, with all the scenery changes, but I guess that’s how it might work when you’re having a conversation with God. Also, sadly nonplussed by Metatron’s end–I didn’t feel sad to see him go (though I love the character and Armstrong really impressed me in the show, and it was a cool mini-redemptive act) and I didn’t feel happy to see him go (as I might have earlier this season–will never forgive him for some of his actions!) he just went–into the void?
All in all, though, there was more to like than to dislike about it. The scene between God and Dean at the beginning alone makes this a worthwhile episode.
// I feel like that actor has been on the show before, does anyone know?//
He was Daniel Holtz on Angel, who stole away Connor to a Hell Dimension (but taught him lots of ways to prepare kale). I don’t think he’s been on SPN before.
Ah, Holtz! Knew I’d seen him before!
I think last night’s episode feels to me like the end of season 2 or season 8 where the end game stretched out over 3 episodes. Last week’s episode brings back God, this week’s episode explains the why, the following episode explains the how/who and the finale brings it all together. I don’t get the feeling that it was supposed to be all that compelling other than Dean’s conversation with Chuck which was great and the rescue of Casifer which had to occur for the finale.
Every time they switched away from Sam and Dean and Chuck, the interest in the episode dropped for me, but of course I understand why they had to. It was definitely a set-up episode for the final eps this season.
I loved seeing Kevin again and having that loose end wrapped up so most of us could stop worrying about him. And he looked adorable.
I feel like Metatron’s mini-redemption arc was well done, so that we’d feel something other than glee at his final end (let’s hope it’s final). Armstrong did amazing work on the show, but I could not deal with more Metatron.
I still don’t get Amara’s connection to Dean (other than the obvious!). Is it just duckling impression? The first thing you see when you are “born” is the thing you follow around because it’s mommy? There has to be more. Why, if she is pure destruction does she want/need Dean to be “part of her”? If there’s anything more self-focused than destruction, I don’t know what it is. Creation is giving, destroying is taking away. And destroying *everything* leaving only yourself is taking everything from everything, so why retain Dean’s spirit/soul inside you which was originally created by the one you hate? Maybe I’m overthinking.
At any rate, I love Rob’s portrayal of Chuck. So far, in every episode (I went back and watched the eps he was in) he’s been note perfect. His every interaction with Dean and Sam is a treasure, right from the first moment in “Monster at the End of this Book” so having him feature heavily in the wind-up of this season is awesome. Loved the new prophet. I think he works better than Kevin because with Kevin, you worried so much about his life plans being cut short by becoming a prophet and then, of course, his *life* being cut short. This guy we don’t have to worry so much about, he can just play his role in this situation, though sorry about his cat.
Definitely going to re-watch before next week’s episode, when I hope Lucifer gets out of Cas because I’m pretty over Casifer (well, that was true about three seconds in, so…).
RE: Amara’s fascination with Dean–it clicked for me with the message she sent him last episode. She wants a companion. And she can’t create one on her own, hence the seduction of one of her brother’s creations.
Yes Barb! She’s lonely and can’t create a companion. I find it fascinating that both Amara and Chuck say how they were so lonely when they had each other.
I was hoping that Chuck would just whip him up a Mark Pellegrino-shaped vessel…
I was hoping the same thing!
//He was Daniel Holtz on Angel//
Yup. Which means I’m having a hard time trusting him.
//She wants a companion. And she can’t create one on her own, hence the seduction of one of her brother’s creations.// Barb, yes!
So many scenes with the car, such a Chuck heavy episode, and no “God is my co-pilot” joke? I am very disappointed. Although the Symphony of Behavior (TM shelia) at the idea of God watching porn on Dean’s computer was pretty awesome.
Other than that, I just don’t know what I think of this episode, guys.
An untrustworthy prophet. Don’t we call them “economists?”
I agree with Carolyn that this was a transition episode. We usually get one right about now to ramp up towards the finale. I’m enjoying the Chuck characterization more than I bought I would. He’s a celestial being who was just wearing the Chuck persona, and now is egotistic and not apologetic. It’s fascinating to see Rob Benedict throw that switch snd you believe it. He is also soooo passive aggressive. The crack about not being like Dean’s father when Dean is in the middle of such a rare moment of vulnerability was the ultimate button pushing. And not acknowledging Sam’s faith and just letting that ‘maybe it got lost in the spam’ comment hang there? Again, not expected which makes it interesting.
I am DISAPPOINTED that no one mentioned Sam as get-away driver in the Impala. I could watch a looped video of the footage of Dean doing the 360 in Baby and Sam fish tailing on the gravel road in this ep over and over. They would need to hook me up to an IV because I would be unable to look away. Anyone remember the movie Brainstorm?
Yes! See these guys driving like maniacs in such an all powerful masculine beast of a car is sooo exhilarating. I’ve never see Brainstorm, but my frame of reference (showing my age here) is Steve McQueen in Bullitt.
//The crack about not being like Dean’s father when Dean is in the middle of such a rare moment of vulnerability//
See, that’s one of the things I’m having trouble with. Sure, He can say whatever the fuck He wants, after all. Still, when the subtext becomes text, we’re used to a bit more… subtlety? I don’t know. It made me roll my eyes.
I viewed it as Chuck/God being his passive/aggressive douche self and emphasizing his omniscience to just poke back at Dean for being angry. The Old Testament Jehovah would have thundered something about the pot criticizing the potter.
I like how no one mentioned Jesus when Dean brought up the futility of God letting himself be killed. No one is being saved from sin. Chuck isn’t Aslan (He’s not a tame Pulp Fiction Writer). Jesus is only safe to mention on South Park.
It really made me think that Chuck is a prick and I won’t miss him when he dies. But making God a douche is just so Philip Pullman to me, and I hated how the second and third books in the His Dark Materials fell off in quality and imagination. I have faith (but not in the way Principal Wood had Faith in BtVS) that the writers aren’t going to recapitulate that, I just hate being reminded of it. I got a whiff of it last episode, and more now. My idiosyncratic take.
So it ultimately made me roll my eyes, also.
As a farewell to Metatron, I have to mention a couple of lines from Neuromancer that make me think of him:
His ugliness was the stuff of legend. In an age of affordable beauty, there was something heraldic about his lack of it.
Just the angel closest to the door? Screw you, Chuck!
//Jesus is only safe to mention on South Park.// so true
Metatron’so epitaph? I love it – almost think he might begrudgingly approve, too.
The way I see it, it’s Faith that had Principal Wood. ;)
Remember the writers of this episode. Subtlety is not really their thing.
//She wants a companion. And she can’t create one on her own, hence the seduction of one of her brother’s creations.//
Yes, I get that. It’s part of what I meant by “the obvious” (along with Dean’s pulchritude which would vanish once he was part of her). To me, Amara’s total selfishness belies that. She, as the ultimate destruction, shouldn’t need a “companion” as we understand the concept. She should be sufficient unto herself, and maybe Chuck, I suppose, so he could create and she destroy the creation. Little brother builds the block tower and big sister knocks it down, on and on for eternity. I don’t see a need or place in this for Dean. Then again, maybe being alone for so long after having been banished *changed* her, but if she just wanted a companion she has all the souls she’s consumed since being released currently residing inside her the same way she wants Dean. Why him in particular? Again, maybe I’m overthinking.
It’s supposed to tie back to the Mark, right? That was the set up in the season opener as to why Dean is tied to her but instead the writers seem to be diverging into baby ducking territory. Lucifer also bore the mark, so I’ve been waiting for a deeper discussion about this and why the Mark was considered a “lock”. We’ve had Lucifer free for several episodes and still no clarification. Shouldn’t he have been bonded to Amara in the same way, if they both carried it?
Yeah, I hope they do go further into the mark, Paula. Maybe Amara is influencing Dean to twist or break the lock so it can’t be used against her again, but it’s gone from Dean — unless it could be put back…? Cain said Dean, as very few people were, was “worthy” to bear the mark. But if Amara just wanted influence to prevent re-use, she should have found a better way to get to her brother than by torturing Lucifer, the only other extant bearer of the mark. I know she’s tried a lot of ways, but still. Ugh, it’s a mystery, it’s a puzzle, but the fact that I keep thinking about it and snapping it round and round like a Rubick’s cube means that I continue to be interested, which says a lot about the writing, LOL.
//we’re used to a bit more… subtlety? I don’t know. It made me roll my eyes// I agree, Lyrie. It’s like I said in last week’s comments that the samulet was about as subtle as as a brick and seemed to be designed to make fangirls on Tumbler go nuts rather than be an understated clue to Chuck!god’s devine intervention. The dad comment was the same. Ackles was acting the shit out of that scene with rare soul baring maturity and vulnerability from Dean to be answered by snark.
The exchanges between Dean and Chuck have had a very George Burns w/ John Denver, ‘Oh, God’ vibe in their best moments. OG was really one of the first Hollywood movie portrayals of god and he came off as really wise, loveable, humble, and with a sense of humor. Chuck has the potential, but misses the mark (no pun intended) when he comes back with pettiness.
They seem to be emphasizing and leading up to the god/Lucifer relationship showdown. Chuck refusing to even discuss Lucifer and accusing that he would surely betray him with Amara and then showing Lucifer bravely defending god and refusing to betray. (Again with the subtlety.) It looks like we may get our #redeemLucifer afterall, but I am disappointed that Michael seems to be left completely out of the conversation as if he didn’t even exist, even to the point of Amara calling Lucifer the firstborn favorite – what?!?
I think it was cool that Metatron sacrificed himself in the end (#redeemEveryone – that’s our theme for the season), but I hate that, like Charlie (#stillhurts) the sacrifice was mostly in vain.
//Sam as get-away driver in the Impala// I was practically yelling at Sam to throw it into drive and run over the bitch. (I was getting a little too fired up – maybe just a little.)
I agree with everyone’s comments about Amara’s bonding to Dean. The adorable baby!mark was weird and unexpected in the season openers with young Amara exposing herself constantly to show it was there, but we haven’t seen boo from it lately. Maybe they decided 3 seasons is a bit much for this arc – hmmm (#notwrong). I keep hoping Amara and Lucifer will get together in the end. He did have the mark. There was that one moment where her hand hovered over his heart as if reading it. A lot of it just doesn’t follow.
I haven’t read through the comments yet – but my quick take on the last 2 episodes:
— I was so satisfied with the amulet closure in Fan Fiction that the amulet returning was anti-climactic. I liked the non-literal “closure” that Fan Fiction brought – the reality being more important than the symbol. So I didn’t have the “THERE IT IS” response that a lot of people probably had. I was like, “Oh. Hi, amulet.” It felt … littler than what it felt like in Fan Fiction. But I know I may very well be in the minority on that one. I did love Dean’s faces when he saw what it was.
— I’m okay with Chuck/God – and it certainly was set up as such back in the day with his disappearance. I loved that Keith Richards’ awesome memoir for two shout-outs, and also that the Beach Boys were playing in the background – along with Gimme Shelter. All of that was very rich.
— Last week: Ugh, the monologue about parenting from Chuck. Haaaated it. I was blocking it out AS it was happening. Terrible. Especially since it was counter-acted by some of JA’s best work in the season. Whatever we were seeing in that monologue from JA – we’ve never seen before. That’s Dean saying shit he’s never said before to someone he’s never met and barely believes in. It was all new and fresh. Great stuff. When Chuck said the word “enabling” I thought: “You have got to be fucking kidding me.” And it was said earnestly, without an ironic wink or at least something to take the edge off. Bad writing and so obvious it felt geared at middle-schoolers.
— I LOVED the line-reading of “Lucifer was not a villain.”
— It’s weird but the “danger” to Castiel’s vessel just has no resonance for me. It’s really time for him to go. I don’t even feel the urgency – not really – in Sam and Dean anymore, although the scripts keep paying lip service to it. I know I keep saying that … but I am REALLY noticing it now. Castiel has been Tubercular for three seasons now. Misha is clearly happy with the job and happy to continue. He’s got a fan base like he will never have again in his life and he knows it. But somehow – even with him getting to “be” Lucifer for half a season has not activated any interest in Castiel again. I don’t know a lot, but I know Story – and like an acting teacher said to me once, “There’s nothing wrong with being bored. If you’re bored, it usually means something is wrong.”
— I am liking the non-literal romantic non-explicit bonding-swoon-romantic-new-age thing happening between Dean and Amara and I have liked it from the first moment of this entire bizarre season. (I have really enjoyed Season 10.) The less explicit the better. He was the first thing she saw when she was “freed” and so he’s The One for her. He’s imprinted on her – the way animals do. I’m sure they’re going to have to “go” explicit eventually – the Mark and all that – but I’ve liked it being something that is just “in the air” – romantic/sexual/spiritual/disorienting – and also not necessARily threatening. It’s presented to Dean as peace, rest, one-ness, “bliss” … and JA has worked it out for himself, whatever it is – his face goes soft and submissive even when her name comes up – and that’s rationale enough for me. It’s very disturbing. I think it’s gone on a bit long, with the two of them staring longingly at one another across various natural landscapes, but what are ya gonna do, it’s a long season.
— I won’t miss Metatron – it was time for him to go – but I thought that two-hander scene in the music club – represented some of his best work. It was the Best of Metatron, with that “meta” thing – of course, it’s part of his name – going on that could be annoying but isn’t – because that was always his function: to create stories and comment on the stories being created. I thought Curtis Armstrong did a phenomenal acting job in that scene: fighting for his life, hurt, excited, betrayed … tour de force.
— Jesus is never mentioned, but Metatron did cross himself when Chuck revealed himself as God.
— I need to watch the episode again so I can watch JA close the laptop on his porn. As I recall it – and don’t remind me, please, I like the memory of it and will re-discover it myself – his face isn’t even in the frame. His hand just comes into the frame and closes the laptop. And his fingers float around awkwardly. Like he’s not sure of what to do except … he must close the laptop. This is why he is a genius. Because you could tell all of his emotions just from his arm and his awkward scared fingers. He doesn’t even NEED his face to tell the story.
— Sam still prays. I find that touching. What I also find “touching” is Sam’s driving skills. HOLY CRAP.
//two of them staring longingly at one another across various natural landscapes//
Will never happen but I fervently hope the finale of this story arc has them STARING at each other across the Grand Canyon because that would be perfect in so many ways.
I love – I really do – Amara’s grand physical gestures. I love watching that actress move.
Yes, I love her too. I love how she looks at Dean not with anger or a Fatal Attraction “I won’t be IGNORED, Dan” kind of thing (although I sense it could turn into that) … but almost a hurt confusion. She’s like a little kid being rejected and she doesn’t get it. “Why don’t you want this? It’s so clear to me that this is what you want. Why aren’t you accepting it?”
It’s such an interesting choice. It’s gentle. It could have been played like a Dragon Lady, right? A version of Abaddon – a conniving female-shaped creature drawing him in against his will, and up to no good, and all that – but that wouldn’t have been as effective. The physical imprint of the Mark – and the effect of the Blade – and then being a Demon – these have been the Dean “things” over the last seasons (after seasons of Sam being the one “in trouble”) – and it seemed like this season was going to be BOTH Sam and Dean going “off the rails” – with Sam’s visions, and the cage, and Lucifer and all that – but they didn’t really follow through with that. Or, they did -but it was somewhat resolved in the mid-season finale – leaving Dean the one in peril. It’s kind of been all over the place, but I’ve liked it. I would have liked there to be more Amara – maybe in Dean’s dream-life, or fantasy-world – like, what’s happening with HIM, all by himself – outside of what he shares with Sam.
Regardless, I like the relationship and I like how she’s playing it very much.
//but almost a hurt confusion.//
Absolutely. I like this choice. I love the confusion in her eyes. I mean, she got shut away when the world was a certain kind of place and now there’s mobile phones and tons more humans on her lawn and what the actual HELL is going on? She’s like a cross between Godzilla and Martha Graham with extra feelings. Whereas Abaddon was a high maintenance rage monster.
And how powerful, how timeless, how female, is her story of being shut away for being ‘too much.’ With her black dress and grand gestures she is sooo Gothic, so grandly theatrical that it almost flips over into childlike goofyness, an endearing lack of premeditation. She’s not a villainess like Abaddon. You can’t imagine those too getting on.
Amara’s story could be illustrated by Gustave Dore or Edward Gorey. Both would be great versions.
//maybe in Dean’s dream-life, or fantasy-world –//
there’s never. enough. time. spent in that world, alas :-(
// – but they didn’t really follow through with that. //
There are still two episodes left in this season. There’s still time for … something after all that build up. C’mon, writers!
// With her black dress and grand gestures she is sooo Gothic, so grandly theatrical that it almost flips over into childlike goofyness, an endearing lack of premeditation. //
I totally agree with this. She’s got va-va-voom curves but the eyes/attitude of a child – or at least a being not at all used to having a body yet. She doesn’t “present” as sexual to me – and that’s not what she’s offering. Dean’s already had enough sex to re-populate a small midWestern city, so that clearly isn’t the appeal. Or not all the appeal. And I don’t know – I like how VAGUE they’re allowing it to be. “She wants me to be inside … we will be one” or whatever the hell he was telling Sam – and it sounds like a Richard Bach book and what the HELL – it’s so unspecific but I think that’s the best part about it, frankly. I’m sure it’ll be specific but the thing I like is that it doesn’t feel “end-game-y” – like, say, The Leviathan, for example, or any other Big Bad. She is much more amorphous and she’s locked in on Dean and he’s going to be a part of her and she can’t even describe what that means because it’s so obvious to her and it’s what HAS to happen and … why isn’t he submitting?? It’s this weird liquid-y situation that’s been going on and I’ve found it totally fascinating.
I wonder at the conversations they all probably had going into this season – they clearly knew what they wanted, because they cast her perfectly and she knows exactly what she’s doing, and what she needs to bring. But still: it’s such a strange Gothic (yes!) situation – and you need people who can play that – without it seeming silly. And maybe it does seem a little silly. All of that gazing at one another across mountain ranges thing – but it’s so outside the norm of the rest of the show that I am totally digging its bizarre-ness.
And whatever JA has told himself is going on with Dean – because you know HE knows what Dean dreams about – it’s all over his face every time he sees her. So he’s playing this whole Arc with very little language to support it.
It’s been a lot of fun. I get excited whenever it gets introduced – even now, when you can almost feel the “plot” creaking into gear. They’ve done good set-up with this one! I’ve been totally into it all along – mainly because it’s been so bizarre.
//She’s got va-va-voom //
I’m a bit jealous, frankly.
But she’s also the kind of girl who’d say, ‘we should have some fun together,’ and you go ‘yeah!’ and the fun turns out to be jumping off a 100 ft cliff at midnight into a bottomless black lake. And you have to jump first.
//I am totally digging its bizarre-ness.//
I mean, what with all the LANDSCAPES and DRESSES and general what-the-fuckness (yes, so, so outside the norm and SO welcome) I am totally expecting the season finale will be Kate Bush busting out of a thicket and laying down some truths.
Sam and Ruby, the last – only? – truly great/destructive male-female SPN relationship was so different, it was all ‘keep up, Sammy, show you have the balls to do this, ‘ lots of withholding and controlling, and gaslighting to the max. But Amara’s a very different proposition. I like the waviness of it all. Long may it last.
One of the really great things about that scene was her happiness at the beginning of it. Almost triumph, but not quite. He’s answered her call–she thinks she’s won him over. Then when she senses his betrayal, her hand goes from touching his cheek to grasping his chin–talk about acting with your fingertips!
good call, Barb. I am glad the show has not forgotten about face-touching.
There has been a severe lack of that recently.
Hi All
This episode was a bit all over the place, much like my thoughts about it. Timing wise and flitting from scene to scene…. So just some thoughts and questions from the dark continent:
So Amara is in Dean’s head. When Chuck and Dean were talking by the park bench, was that also in Dean’s head? That scene seemed so disjointed, out of place. What, where, how did they get there?
And how the hell did they get Baby out the Bunker?
Oh, and I’d love to have seen what Dean said to Chuck when he saw the state of Baby’s suspension after Chuck rescued the rescue party? Given how Dean reacted to the singing and the showering, and how important sleeping is to Dean, I’m sure he’d have had no hesitation in telling Chuck off about damage to Baby.
I’ve been haunting Sheila’s re-caps and been re-reading from Season 1, so a lot of those insights and comments are fresh in my memory. There was a discussion in the re-cap of ‘Home’ where Missoiri says about Dean ‘ he means well’. At the end of the current episode as Amara confronts Metatron he says to her ‘ he means wel’. Now it could be that he’s referring to either Dean or Chuck. As in, yes Dean distracted you, betrayed you, but he meant well. Or, yes Chuck betrayed you, but he meant well, and please, please don’the destroy the universe. I just found it an interesting turn of phrase, given how often it’s used in relation to Dean.
Good call on “He means well”!! I didnt catch that! It comes up so often in relation to Dean – Sam’s said it a couple of times about him too – it’s really interesting. Almost like they have to grade Dean on a curve, give him some leeway because he’s a mess, and he messes things up, but he “means well.”
Sam not knowing some year 5 science like why planets are round or why ears are shaped like that makes me so irrationally, incandescently, chest-heavingly angry that I’ve barely even been able to read these comments let alone participate…flames….on the side of my face…
Half a season ago when Sam met Lucifer again and my guts churned in horror for him I was relieved and excited that the show remembered how critical and traumatic that experience had been for Sam. Lucifer was fearsome because he put our characters in immediate emotional and physical peril in a way they couldn’t fistfight or sigil their way out of.
That was diluted over the next few appearances but I still felt it. It was gone with this episode. Actually Dean’s speech to Chuck was the only time I felt like the show remembered why these characters from the past are important and worth revisiting, and what that actually meant for Dean and Sam. That was played wonderfully. I was expecting Dean to be less “why suffering” and more “why did you do this to me/us” but on reflection, the amount of suffering Dean witnesses makes that a very compassionate and compelling question. And I really love the way RB is playing it; he says stuff like “I always had faith in you, Sam” so sincerely that I would take joy in spitting in his face.
Y’all have discussed a lot of the strengths of this episode — Barb, skeevy, threatening face-touching! yes! Helena — out on the wiley windy moors, yes! — and there were great moments and I continue to enjoy God and Amara but whew. There wasn’t much about Sam this episode that made any sense to me at all. That pristine notebook with the handy Enochian? aUGH! *shrieks and disappears*
// flames….on the side of my face… // ha!!
This is why these discussions are so great – I have FELT what you’re talking about but more on a subterranean level – almost like white noise – but the way you put it into words has made me realize a couple of things I’ve sensed – in particular Sam going back in the cage with Lucifer (and the lead up to that episode)- and how thrilling and queasy-making it was initially – because, as you say, the show remembers. They didn’t leave us, the audience, holding the bag with our memories of what that trauma was like for Sam. These guys are supposed to be the sum of all that has happened to them – and more often than not, the show is so good with that – showing the cumulation of things, not missing a beat with the call-backs and the rest of it.
// I was expecting Dean to be less “why suffering” and more “why did you do this to me/us” but on reflection, the amount of suffering Dean witnesses makes that a very compassionate and compelling question. //
In context of what you’re talking about – and how I’m thinking about it now in light of your words – that was really why that moment was so powerful and interesting. It had so much history behind it – it wasnt abstract, like, “God, why have you created such an awful world?” – Dean’s words had Dean’s whole life behind it. I didn’t like Chuck/God’s monologue in response (“That’s not good parenting” – like I said, I blocked it out as it was happening. I was dying for some ambiguity and subtext for the LOVE A PETE. Or at LEAST a joke. Something. Blah.)
I love your eye for details. My eye is pretty good but yours is world-class. The pristine notebook!!!
I realize that you now have flames … on the side of your face … but when you’re ready could you talk more about what you said here – // It was gone with this episode. //
I think I know what you are talking about – and like I said, when I look back on, say, the mid-season finale, with Sam’s blue-lit face in the cage with Lucifer – I suddenly realize that a major ball seems to have been dropped along the way, but I hadn’t really noticed it until now. Or maybe it’s just that I’m way too captivated by Amara’s Caryatid-gown. Possible.
//the pristine notebook// ha, that was strange. Are we to assume that Sam knows Enochian off the top of his head with that odd detail? Who taught him that Cas? He’s never actual around. Or was it being being possessed by two angels and residual knowledge. That’s opens up a big cans of worms that I’d like to know about.
We only get two eps of the Cage and Lucifer angst? I have some hopes since Bob Berens wrote the ep. Maybe he can that Sam vault and gives us a glimpse of what’s going on like he did in The Werther Project.
okay, give me a second to douse myself so I don’t set the keyboard on fire.
Dean’s words had Dean’s whole life behind it.
Yes, exactly — on his best days, Dean is a hunter because he doesn’t want people to get hurt. And he sees a lot of people — a LOT of people — get hurt, and he sees a lot of people get left behind, and so on. And it’s cost him tremendously, of course.
To have Chuck turn it back around into a cutesy daddy-issues thing was interesting because it reframed Dean’s legitimate objections as petulant and childish — that’s a cruel, self-centered, dickish move, God, and fittingly so. So I didn’t mind that — but the actual bald and graceless way it played out, and the relentless way it pushed into this week’s episode was wearying and frustrating.
I suddenly realize that a major ball seems to have been dropped along the way
Here’s the thing. This season has been really, intensely personal. Restorative for their relationship in a careful, methodical way.* And individually, the first half of the season, for Sam, hinged on his relationship to God, his hopes for himself, his fears and traumas. And for Dean there’s been this strong throughline on what peace means for him: hunting and being with his brother, or dissolution into Amara?
And the second half of the season — while grinding into the dirt the image of Sam suffering or dead, and Dean choosing him (I’ll be baffled if the final episode doesn’t revist it) — has felt, cumulatively, like a meditation on their -past, the colour of their present, and how they might reach into the future. There have been tons of callbacks, echoes, and moments of nostalgia. It has felt of a whole and it has felt about Sam and Dean.
EXCEPT. Aside from some tension between Sam and Lucifer in The Vessel (which I thought was on a whole an excellent episode) there has been none of that in the second half’s mythology episodes. The cursory “welp, we got jack on how to save Cas” lines at the start of every motw epside reached absurd levels. It’s not like season four, where motw episodes looped back into the mythology in startling and fun or deep ways. Hell’s Angel, Shurley (as much as I liked that episode), Family, and this one may as well have starred those Sam- and Dean-acting demons Crowley tried to fool Kevin with that one time.
Or let me say it this way because I can only speak for myself but the thing that interests me about the mythology in any season is how it speaks to the essence of Sam and Dean, and the nature of their lives, desires, and feelings about each other. More specifically, this season: what is the shape of Sam’s faith? what is Dean’s understanding of himself? how do they negotiate their complicated personal histories with these beings/the apocalypse etc? WHAT ARE THEIR FEELINGS ABOUT THESE HIGHER POWERS? BECAUSE WE DON’T ACTUALLY KNOW.
This season has delivered some remarkably — shockingly — elemental, piercing moments. What is there elemental about standing around listening to Cas/Lucifer making weak jokes and Sam barely lifting an eyebrow?
*(which is why the reveal of the amulet was a bit of a damp squib for me. logistics aside (the only explanation I will accept is that Chuck put it in Sam’s pocket) everything it signifies has been dealt with more thoroughly already. The entirety of Baby WAS the amulet).
The pristine notebook!!!
ha ha thanks. That fucking notebook makes no sense on any level!! augh, THe flames are back!!!
// because it reframed Dean’s legitimate objections as petulant and childish //
Interesting. I need to watch that scene again. The word “enabling” made flames … on the side of my face … so I need to re-visit in a calmer mood. I do remember a flash of something going across Dean’s face – almost taken aback – so there may be some subtlety there I am missing.
// There have been tons of callbacks, echoes, and moments of nostalgia. It has felt of a whole and it has felt about Sam and Dean. //
Yes! It’s been beautiful!
// The cursory “welp, we got jack on how to save Cas” lines at the start of every motw epside reached absurd levels. //
Really, it’s felt a little desperate – this is that “bone thrown to Cas fans” thing that would be totally annoying me right now if I were a Cas fan, or if Cas were my favorite. They have this character and he no longer serves any purpose – AND in the last, say, three seasons, there’s barely been any relationship between Cas and the brothers – not like there used to be. So somehow the intensity of that bond has lessened … and it’s not that I don’t get that Dean wants Cas to be saved, or that that’s a priority for him in any showdown, to not destroy Cas – but we need to see it visually – not just hear it in words.
// The entirety of Baby WAS the amulet). //
Absolutely.
I definitely saw the amulet as having been placed there by Chuck – Sam seemed surprised to see it too although I haven’t watched that episode again.
I just rewatched. Did anyone else notice the beautiful shot of Dean through the art deco iron railing? He did the ‘sleepy toddler eye rub’ (thanks, Sheila, for identifying this for us) and then a really frustrated two handed back of the head and neck rub, all framed by the bars of the railing. Imprisoned?
Trapped?
I really loved the exchange between Chuck and Dean where Chuck says, “You are the firewall between light and darkness. It’s why I saved you.” Dean just says, “No!” It’s so reminiscent of season 4 & 5 – ‘Head of a Pin’ I’m not enough, I’m not your guy, you’ll have to get someone else, etc. It’s much less the brash “screw destiny” or “Why does it have to be me?” I feel like he’s matured beyond that, but he hasn’t quite shaken the self doubt. I think he is seeming to embrace the idea that there is something in this situation that he has to do and that he’s the only one who can do it. His “No” to Chuck was like a last effort to get Chuck to “take this cup” from him. He’s never put much faith in god so I don’t think he was/is expecting much now. He has repeatedly said he believed they were gonna have to take care of it without god’s help anyway.
Jessie, you are not wrong about the intensity of the Sam/Lucifer rematch being completely disappated. They’ve made it all about “I’m so tricky. I got out of the cage by using everyone.” They have lost/ignored how hugely important that was to Sam, his past experience, his faith. And they have trivialized Sam’s faith (“quit fangirling” and agreed, Jessie, you can come up with some better questions than that, Mr. Stanford prelaw.) Without sounding like a broken record this is partly why I’ve been so disappointed at no mention of Michael. It’s that connection to the past. It seems as if Dean has unfinished business there and he knows he’ll never be able to move forward until he turns and faces the destiny he’s essentially been running from for years. I’ve been hoping for a Sam/Lucifer Dean/Michael team-up since Death mentioned the arch angels (plural) at the end of last season. Sam going into the cage midseason was so promising. I don’t have flames coming off my face, but to quote Chuck, “I’m disappointed.”
//Sam/Lucifer Dean/Michael team-up // yes! We have to see Michael right. Now that God’s back, is he going to leave him in the Cage? That was such a strange plot point. Either Lucifer is lying and Michael is trapped still or if he did go over the edge, wouldn’t Chuck be able to bring him back?
I can’t believe they just blew off the Michael issue without a sideways glance. I mean, “Michael. Not happening. Next.” If nothing else a threatened prophet is supposed to bring an archangel running. Surely Amara’s sucking Donatello’s soul would bring Mikey out of his swoon.
Right? Right??!?
Ugh.
Totally agreed in the “Michael” thing. Michael is such a big deal!!
I hope someone can help me not be disappointed in We Happy Few. It was like a rough draft of an Avengers movie. At least Amara is cooler than Loki. Dean’s about as cool as Black Widow.
Couldn’t they have gotten Donna and Jodi to fight for all the sheriff’s? Garth for all werewolves… Benny for the vampires…
I don’t want to hate on our show.
Right? Like Fellowship of the Ring.
Criticism is not hate. It shows love that you care so much about what happens to the story and characters. All though there are a lot of people who don’t distinguish that there’s a line. That’s why I love reading the comments here. We can be critical or disagree with each other’s opinions but it all comes from a place of love.
This, Paula! The writing on this episode made me genuinely angry, purely because I care about these characters so much.
Season 10 has been so strong. I’ve loved it. It’s weird to see something this unfocused to late in the season – and something that undermines the characters (that almost never happens. I know a lot of fans talk about things being “out of character” but half of the time I disagree with those criticisms – because how often do any of us do things “out of character”? A lot, I imagine. These guys are flawed, impulsive, smart, sensitive, stupid, brilliant. They aren’t just one thing.)
But here … someone said below (sorry, I’ll figure out who) that this felt like watching Sam and Dean in the episode where they were “created” by Crowley to impersonate Sam and Dean and be captured on camera shooting up banks, etc. They looked like Sam and Dean but they weren’t Sam and Dean.
I honestly can’t think of any episode where I’ve felt that so strongly.
Dear Supernatural Gift Supplies
Thank you for delivering Episode 22, which arrived this morning.
Unfortunately I am having to return it. The packaging was so flimsy that that some severe structural damage occurred to the contents and several bits have fallen out in transit, including characterisation, plot, Legs Moments and all the fucks I should be giving at this stage in the season.
Problems with the character figurines are itemised below.
1) Sam and Dean Winchester: at first I thought the problem with these figures was that the brains had fallen out in transit. When I compared them to the figurines from the (excellent, five star) ‘Baby’ Gift Package and several from my collection of Seasons 1-9 figurines, however, I realised what I have been sent are actually cheap imitations – lacking not only brains but personality, memory, and common sense. Possibly a pirate manufacturer has infiltrated your supply chain? Please check, I need the originals!
2) God: Dull, underpowered, confused
3) Lucifer/Castiel: Something wrong with its face
4) Crowley: Returning because this character is very flat.
5) Rowena: I specified I did not want this figure with my order, yet you keep on including it. Has also leaked purple goo everywhere – please find enclosed my dry cleaning bill.
6) Hell minions and angels: as you can see these characters are so flimsy they have collapsed into indistinguishable bits and pieces that fell out on the floor when I opened the box. Don’t bother returning them, just throw them into the sun.
7) Plot, script etc – when I hold these up to the light I see a lot of holes.
8) The packaging promises’100% supernatural fibres’ but I can see a lot of polyester in Sam’s plaid shirts. And Dean’s henleys are missing.
The quality of your product and customer service has been high this Season so I look forward to a return to your generally high standards next week.
Brilliantly put. And hilarious.
Thanks, Pat. Your ‘what the hell?’ is equally pertinent :-)
Well said. WTF?
Cannot say this enough, Wren. WTAF?
(I’m keeping the Amara action figure though. I doooo like it.)
//all the fucks I should be giving//
Ha!
We went out last night for Tandoori and the Jungle Book movie with 2 of my big girls. I recorded the show, but after the “teaser” clip on Twitter of the therapy talk out you feelings session between Chuck & Cassifer and your clever description above I think I’ll pass (see “fucks I should be giving”).
Besides, you posted 2 gorgeous Winchester brothers staring into the flames shots. If we were playing the #redeemeverything game would those shots be the redeeming factor?
Aww, Melanie, that scene … I made those gifs for humourous ends but dang if I didn’t get completely lost for a while just staring at the beauty of that scene and wondering which bits to use. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg, beautywise (look, Sheila, an adverb ;-) ) Shots like those are always soothing to look at after a ‘trying’ episode – it’s like slipping on a silk shirt after spending the day in a scratchy polyester overall.
So what would be your #redeemeverything thing be?
Haven’t watched yet. Still trying to scrounge-up some of those wayward fucks to give. What the heck? At least my expectations are lying around on the floor here – somewhere…
#Redeemeverything? That’s tough this ep.
Maybe the sassy sidekick witch Clea? She definitely gave Sam the up-and-down which shows her good taste. Or Donatello the prophet who had potential as a bookworm atheist? Oh, but wait, we can’t have nice things that last more than one episode.
//keeping the Amara action figure// I’ll give you this one. That actress was working whatever the script gave her to work with.
It’s sad when the only character I liked in this episode was Clia and she died.
I liked Clea (Clia?) also.
So great, Helena! (These are obviously not Funko Pop dolls you’ve been receiving, however–)
Sooo tempted by the Funko dolls but don’t really have the space for them. I like that they exist in all their forms, tho!
Was out shopping last weekend in the comic book store with my kid when we walked by the mountainous display of Funko dolls and I had to shout out, “OMG it’s Bobby Singer, I’ve never seen a Bobby Singer doll.” He was horrified.
OMG, I’d buy that doll if I saw it!
I’m crying. Hysterical. Also crying because wtf was that episode. I love Bob Berens but off the rails craziness.
WHY DIDN’T WE GET THE EXTENDED WARRANTY?!?!?!
HINDSIGHT!!!!!
I might just ask if I can swap the whole thing for a set of rollerblades.
Ha!
Oh I’ve had it with the minions! I yearn for them to vanish. YEARN. They add nothing and half the time they aren’t good actors, either, so they can’t carry it off. (Crowley’s “minion” from earlier this season, who betrayed him to Lucifer. She was adorable, but her line-readings … ugh.)
My mantra during this episode was “what the hell?”. Random thoughts: I hated the God siblings cheesy WWE-like grudge match. I kinda hate weak Chuck, who has been so passive early on. Also, Crowley shows up, spews some smoke, then disappears from the episode?
The only thing that kept me invested was the concern the brothers showed towards each other.
It was so weird to see Sam and Dean frozen on the outskirts of the confrontation between God and Amara (and also, earlier God and Lucifer) – just STANDING there. The blocking was bad too. There WAS no blocking. Maybe they just didn’t have time to give this episode another pass. Everyone involved is so smart. They probably knew it had a lot of weaknesses.
I’m so disappointed in this episode, honestly. What’s happened to the whole Sam/Lucifer Cage Issues thing? That was strong right up until The Vessel and now, when it should be coming out in full force, Sam barely feels present. Dean isn’t much more substantial. I liked the witch- I liked Donatello, too. What’s the point in introducing two new characters to kill them within an episode?
When you compare the mythology here to the way it was in, say, ‘Form and Void’- it was so Eerie at the start of this season, and now I’m not even feeling it for Lucifer. The grumpy teenager thing was just- cringe.
Honestly, though, I’m so annoyed that they seem to have completely forgotten about the Cage match. Especially when its presence has been so highly felt throughout the rest of the season.
//When you compare the mythology here to the way it was in, say, ‘Form and Void’- it was so Eerie at the start of this season, and now I’m not even feeling it for Lucifer. The grumpy teenager thing was just- cringe// yes this. Where is the eerieness and mystery of that ep?
The grumpy teenager thing does NOT work as well as they seem to think it does! And that World’s Greatest Dad mug was good for a chuckle the first time around but it should not be the centre of a frame, or even really appear in a frame, ever again.
Well, it won’t, seeing as how Amara kicked it into the wall…
and out of my dvds too?!
hahahaha
Yeah, enough with the mug. We get it, we get it.
// I’m so disappointed in this episode, honestly. What’s happened to the whole Sam/Lucifer Cage Issues thing? //
Me too. I haven’t watched the season in its entirety yet – so it does seem to have vanished following The Vessel – and I don’t get that. It was so important – from episode 1, 2, of this season! Ball totally dropped.
So this is a “love it or hate it” episode, apparently.
I loved it.
Though there are a few things I would change (exchange, Helena?). I would trade in the Grumpy Teenager!Lucifer bit for that missing scene between Sam and Chuck. I would also happily be rid of the line, “you’re leading this army, Dean” in favor of actually seeing Dean lead that army. But otherwise, I thought it was a great way to twist expectations and set up the finale. It also made explicit some of the parallels that this show thrives on, and upended some of the storyline themes of past seasons without erasing them.
For example, the God v. Amara showdown has a clear antecedent in the brothers’ relationship. In the beginning, it was Sam and Dean replaying the Abel and Cain roles (the tension of this aspect of their relationship was really only resolved last season when Dean refused to kill Sam for the final time). Then the boys became the conduit for the Michael v. Lucifer rivalry–a cosmic battle written in human terms. Finally, the battle is external to them, but they stand in for humanity as witnesses and as the means to bring the different factions (angels, demons and magic users) together. For me, this works.
Other things I liked:
-Amara floating around the bunker. Helena and Sheila noted her gothic, huge gestures above, and I really noticed them this time around.
-Dean wanting to go to Amara when he sees how injured she is.
-Crowley’s “Game of Thrones” speech, short as it was
-That it was Castiel, not Lucifer, who rallied the angels. Also, liking how the angel’s color palates have changed as they have lost numbers/power/become more wishy-washy. They used to be in black and white. Now they can only muster up gray sweater vests. Again, this works for me as a metaphor for the weakness of Heaven. (Though I’m with most of you–I’m ready to be done with both Heaven and Hell presented as awful office environments.)
-That they brought in the Mark–they had to address it, you know–and then took it off the table as a solution. I thought it was a great storyline for Dean, but I don’t think anyone wants to replay it. I do start to wonder though–if the Mark plays on your worst traits, or your sins, what would it have done to Sam? In Lucifer, it worked on his Envy, in Dean his Anger. What’s Sam’s sin? Is it still Pride, like in s, 3 and 4?
-That next week it’s all going to come back down to the Winchesters, trying to fix things. The main problem with the God v. Amara story to me is that it doesn’t HAVE to involve Sam and Dean. It’s cosmic dysfunctional family drama, played out between the supernatural entities. But now, it is up to humanity again.
-That God’s failure to trap Amara was foreshadowed by his recognizing that Dean wasn’t able to kill her because some part of him didn’t want to. I think God weakened when faced with his sister because he didn’t really want to trap her again. Remember, his original plan was to trade himself for creation, and give Amara her freedom.
-The look of fear that crossed Sam’s face when Lucifer passed by him early on in the episode. Similar to the unspoken fear in Dean that we saw when he had to go to capital H Hell to rescue Sam in the midseason premiere. Sometimes these things are better left unsaid.
OK, I’ve said my piece. Sorry to babble on for so long. Helena, I’ll buy a couple of those action figures from you–how much do you want for Crowley?
Barb, I’ll happily give you Crowley as he would benefit from the tlc and loving consideration you gave the episode here. I’d throw in Rowena but unfortunately she has melted into a puddle of purple slime which burned through the box and left a big mess everywhere. I’m afraid that lots of bits of Hell have got mixed up with Heaven, being practically indistinguishable from each other. But you have made such excellent sense of all the season-arc plottery and call backs that you will pick them apart and reassemble them with no problem.
I’ve nodded my way through all your excellent points and particularly love the way you distilled the antecedents of this current situation and how it has developed from something very personal the Winchesters seemed condemned to enact to something they are witnesses to. I guess I’m just not crazy about how this development has been arrived at and find the whole factions thing gimcrack and stretched out beyond tedium. The past two seasons have basically been The French Mistake, a hilarious and economical episode, inflated over 46 episodes into a story of warring office drones with a fag paper’s width of ideological difference between them.
As for the Game of Thrones mention – it was inevitable, I guess, given the intrigue and factional fighting going on, but I (gritted teeth here) thought it was lazy and symptomatic of the gradual draining away of Crowley’s former wit. (Also, one of my earliest and clearest TV memories as a kid is the the BBC’s I, Clavdivs which just wipes. the. floor. with the am-dram palace intrigue offered up by Rowena in SPN. I can’t comment on GoT as never watched it.)
Anyway, looking forward to hearing more voices in support of this week’s ep as it might well persuade me to watch next week’s, which right now I am … not that bothered about.
Hmm – maybe I should have asked for Dean –
Your French Mistake reference made me laugh, and then apropos quotes started popping like bubbles in my brain:
“It’s because we have no choice -”
“If there’s a key, there should also be a lock.”
“Ever get that feeling – there’s someone in the backseat?”
// (Also, one of my earliest and clearest TV memories as a kid is the the BBC’s I, Clavdivs which just wipes. the. floor. with the am-dram palace intrigue offered up by Rowena in SPN. I can’t comment on GoT as never watched it.) //
I know!! My parents let me watch I Claudius, and it blew me away!
I agree that Crowley’s wit now just seems bored and cliched – which is such a bummer because I love him. But – honestly, ever since Rowena arrived – he’s been emasculated. Which, I get it, is the point of that whole relationship – but 2 and a half seasons of it? ENOUGH.
I agree that this was a love it or hate it episode and while I was disappointed that it didn’t go the way that I thought it should go, upon rewatching, I liked it.
I think everybody has their “A” game when it comes to the acting in all of these last three episodes which I see as a 4 part ending to this season, whatever that ending will be. Rob Benedict is phenomenal in making you see the omnipotent god and the neglectful father at the same time. I must admit that petulant, bratty Castiel is not my favorite character but I’ve never been a big Castiel fan from the beginning. But nobody, imho, is phoning it in.
If I’m disappointed in anything, its the writing for this episode. It seems as if the writers are following the same arc for the season but definitely not in the same way. If I produced the show, Robbie Thompson would be the only writer for the past five episodes and either Bob Singer, Thomas Wright, Phil Sricca or Jensen Ackles directing all of the final episodes. It would be emotionally exhausting, but exhilarating and I think more consistent in tone.
//the main problem with the God v. Amara story …is that it doesn’t have to involve Sam and Dean.// Yes! That’s has been a bit of a problem. They’ve been bystanders or facilitators but not real heroes in the way that they’ve been in prior seasons. Sam and Dean are action heroes but in the God v. Amara story, they really haven’t seen that much action. A lot of exposition, but not a lot of action. When was the last time (before this past episode) have we seen them flung against the wall by a demon or an angel? I sort of miss that.
I don’t know what happened to Crowley but maybe being a new father IRL is sucking away his joy in being evil. That whole scene with the demons just didn’t ring true to me. Let’s hope that by next season, he get’s his joy back.
Don’t get me wrong. I’ve enjoyed this season but I really feel that the energy which began so brightly with “Baby” and “Just My Imagination” and “Red Meat” and “Safe House” has waned a little bit after the “…Shurley” highpoint. I don’t quite see how that they bring it back, but I’m willing to be convinced otherwise.
// If I produced the show, Robbie Thompson would be the only writer for the past five episodes and either Bob Singer, Thomas Wright, Phil Sricca or Jensen Ackles directing all of the final episodes. It would be emotionally exhausting, but exhilarating and I think more consistent in tone. //
Yes, I think that might help – they used to do that in the past – giving Kim Manners or Robert Singer the Big Kahuna episodes at the end – because everyone knew they were the guys to do it, they could handle it – their sensibilities are inherently melodramatic and emotional – which is what the show needs in its final moments.
I am so glad to read your positive response Barb and so glad to hear you enjoyed it!
The look of fear that crossed Sam’s face when Lucifer passed by him early on in the episode.
I noticed that too! But coming as it did after Lucifer’s just terrifying “screw you! screw all of you!” I felt like the moment was kinda diminished! When JA and JP get the chance to convey fear around a high-powered being they usually are great at creating that atmosphere — JA is especially good at this, like in his encounters with Death and some of his careful, guarded scenes around Chuck last week — but that wasn’t really apparent for me this week. I think JP was trying to convey nervousness, kind of high and tense and twitchy, but it didn’t merge palatably with the tone of the episode.
I agree with you — or at least hope — that all the players coming in this week clears the decks for something smaller and spookier and more intimate next week.
Barb – Thanks for your alternative point of view – I will totally keep it in mind when I re-watch.
// but they stand in for humanity as witnesses //
This is very interesting – and, you know, that super-powerful line of Dean’s at the end of The Vessel (“I was just a witness“) – and how weird that was for him, but so primal too – that line has had great echoes for me ever since he said it. He was clearly reacting to the unbelievable courage of that submarine crew, and their willingness to die -to sacrifice themselves – as Dean and Sam both do repeatedly – and yet (at the same time) – how Sam and Dean resist sacrificing themselves, or intervene to stop the other from sacrificing themselves – often with disastrous consequences. in the WWII context, that kind of resistance would be totally selfish and – unforgivable, actually. There is a Greater Good, and all that.
Dean also is a “witness” to what is happening between him and Amara – agency is lost. He’s looking on at it. He can’t stop it. They’ve explored it quite a bit – and the “writhing around in bed” scene that closed out “Into the Mystic” was the most explicit scene showing that – I wish there had been more of those scenes, to show his attraction/helplessness growing – to remind us of how much this is taking him over. But that moment at the end of The Vessel, and the moment at the end of Into the Mystic seem very important (they seemed so at the time, and they have tremendous reverb still) – in establishing where Dean’s at.
// if the Mark plays on your worst traits, or your sins, what would it have done to Sam? //
This is a very interesting question, filled with possibilities – and for a fleeing second when the Mark appeared on him, I got totally curious about who HE would become. This may have been intensified because I’ve been upset about Sam’s back-seat wishy-washy nature in the last couple of episodes.
I will watch again with your comments in mind!
So, I’ve just watched it. What. The. Fuck?
I’m so disappointed and sad and angry I can’t articulate what I’m feeling right now. But basically, that first gif.
pretty much.
So. I just watched it and Wow! Srsly?!?
You know, I’m wondering if Amara is secretly Friedrich Nietzsche. I thought he was the one who killed God.
Now the Dean/Amara fan fiction can become slash of a seriously philosophical character. With a weird mustache.
We all need to overuse the quote “Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. ”
Preferably with additional adverbs. (like “preferably”)
Now I’m feeling better about the Amara comparison. Hello Abyss!
I’m trying to find the fun, here. Cut me some slack.
In truth my favorite Nietzsche quote is “The true man wants two things: danger and play. For that reason he wants woman, as the most dangerous plaything.” Just sayin’.
Leaving aside the whole ‘woman as plaything’, er, thing, be careful what you wish for.
“The true man wants woman. Unless he’s gay. Then he wants another true man.”
Not as memorable.
And he makes no pronouncements about what the true women should want. Perhaps that non-statement is the wisest thing he never said.
They’d want Fred to shave that ridiculous moustache off, for starters.
And put on a henley?
That would be an entry level requirement :-)
/entry level/
nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more.
Ha! Guys!
hahahahahaha
I may or may not have just searched the Dean Winchester/Nietzsche tag on AO3.
HA!!!!
So, sending Donatello off on his own seemed like a stupid move when it happened – seems like it should have occurred to at least SOMEONE that he would be a potential target for Amara and it would be safer to keep him at the bunker for the time being, and lo and behold . . . Unless Chuck actually planned to use him as bait for Amara, in which case, ick.
I would have actually liked to see more of a dialogue between Chuck and Amara than a prize fight. There was some promise there, and maybe what discussion did happen about Amara feeling the power of creation will still pay off next week, but mostly at the end of the episode I felt, I don’t know, cheated?
And yes, I very much could have done without the teen angst Lucifer bit.
// There was some promise there //
I totally agree – that was one of my favorite scenes, mainly because she was so hurt and betrayed – and seemed very dangerous when in that state. (I wish she had been more aware of Dean, though – I wish that whatever is happening between them was fucking things up more. You know: Achilles heel.)
#RedeemEverything
Channel my Inner Sam. Everything must be redeemed.
#RedeemWeHappyFew (Shakespeare srsly?)
I guess that can be #
1) Classy quote from Shakespeare in the title.
2) By general consensus Clea was awesome! How did bubble, bubble toil & trouble all get fried but Rowena just gets up and dusts off her sequin gown? Just sayin…
3) Love me some swirly demon smoke especially Crowley’s red smoke as he joined the fray.
4) Amara being gothic and acting with her fingertips and grand gestures, creepy stalkering Dean’s trunk and picture of Mom. What the Hell… #RedeemtheDarkness didn’t we start out there early in the season?
5) Helena’s “Dear Supernatural Gift Supplies” because without the WTF of WHF we might never have experienced that little gem.
6) ummmm. #RedemptionThatsAllIGot
Wait, what, Amara is making grand gestures all over Dean’s trunk? … I’m going to let that delicious image sink in and just add that in British English that would be his boot.
Oh, Helena, I was so naive when we lived in London, many years ago now, that I once told our Royal Marine friend that my favorite desserts were hot, fruit cobblers… with ice cream on top – peaches, berries, apples…
I’ll bet his face was a picture.
He just kept pushing me on and it got worse and worse. When I eventually worked it out I tried to pretend that it was purposeful, but really all I could do was have a good laugh.
I’m glad Dean Winchester is into pie and not hot fruit cobbler because that would have made SPN a more challenging sell in the UK.
But ‘a load of old cobblers’ is a fine expression which I use in many contexts.
Well, if I could teleport, I would definitely be stalking through the possessions of my love, and gaga-eyeing his childhood pictures.
Also, Amara didn’t really have a mother. Although what do you wanna bet that there is going to be something even OLDER than “The Darkness” – the Big Mama of them all. Although Purgatory kind of covered that. We’re out of Big Bads. Please dear God, don’t ever let Supernatural resort to a threat from Outer Space. Please.
#redeemWeHappyFew- ‘Feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeergus.’
LOVED the Fergus line reading, and “oh, god” –> “oh, GOD”
oh, number seven for your list, Melanie, is Wanek and Co’s absolutely gorgeous art deco WPA murals on that new set!
You’re so right, Jessie. Pretty sure that was a stylized Frankenstein at the powerplant behind Chuck. Callback to last season? I did enjoy that. #Redeemed
I am very tickled at the idea of a picture of Frankenstein behind God! Although I think it was less specifically Frankenstein (see here and here) and more riffing on human ingenuity and creativity and solidarity? The WPA has an amazingart history and I just love that the bunker is a nod towards this unique period in labour history and social welfare.
//riffing on human ingenuity and creativity and solidarity//
On close up I see it’s probably just a man in front of a powerplant, but the lightening bolts and electricity knobs give the Frankenstein impression and that story certainly fits the theme of human inventiveness which is an interesting counterpoint (all the WPA artwork) to the utter powerLESSness of Chuck!god. Pretty crazy when the set designers make the strongest statement in the episode!
I love the WPA stuff too – and I agree: the decor of the bunker is so evocative of a very specific moment in time – it really helps “place” Sam and Dean in some other kind of tradition than a modern one.
In those posters behind Chuck – I actually saw shades of Fritz Lang’s Metropolis (insane silent movie from 1927) – a nightmare vision of a “city beneath the city” – where everything is mechanized, human beings are robots, and there’s a gigantic … robot/automaton in charge down there … yearning to destroy the city above ground.
The posters for Metropolis are amazing.
The comparison would also work with the feeling of all of this going on beneath the feet of regular old humanity – going about their business in the everyday world – but deep underground there’s this monumental clash happening between Good and Evil.
I hope those links work.
//Sam and Dean Winchester: at first I thought the problem with these figures was that the brains had fallen out in transit… lacking not only brains but personality, memory, and common sense.//
Sam! Really? You are going to let that wuss, Chuck convince you to put the mark back on? What are you thinking? Try to remember how you got into this in the first place. You deceived your brother, made deals with Rowena, and CHARLIE DIED to get rid of that mark! Two apocalypses started by you. Your judgement is seriously questionable and we’re not going to let you sign any legally binding documents or operate heavy machinery and especially not Baby.
And Dean! A Missouri/Gibbs head-slap for you. You actually agreed to that?!? Just lock him up, right… What happened to I’ll have to throw you into outerspace? Oh wait… You killed that option. Lead the army/babysit the bad guys is right. They’ve sidelined the Michael Sword and you’re just gonna sit there on your ass.
Arggghhh!!!!!!!
// You are going to let that wuss, Chuck convince you to put the mark back on? What are you thinking? //
That’s the thing though: Let us see THAT scene. It would have been fascinating! It totally could work – but only if we got to see that scene!
#bringbackcain Put the mark back on him. He was actually managing very nicely keeping his bees until Crowley stirred things up. Somebody could fling him into space and how awesome would that be? Just imagine that fierce hair floating through space.
Best idea ever. I keep telling you, we never saw his dead body on the floor of that barn. Cain lives, glorious hair and beard intact.
#MelanieIsSmarterThanGod
I bet Cain could make Amara forget about Dean. He’d say, “Come on Baby, let’s get Billie to fling us into the Big Empty together. I’ll let you run those long lovely fingers through my hair forever. Whadda ya say?”
Problem solved.
Love it.
Come to think of it a major player was left off the team…Billie. She’s been telling them since episode 2 that if she flings you into the Big Empty there’s no coming back. No lock necessary. Ummmm hello?!?
That was such a misfire on such a cellular level that it feels like everyone involved forgot for a second what show they were working on. That almost never happens. Showrunner’s day off? I mean, nobody here is a slacker, and Badham directed – but even Badham doesn’t show up well. So something was way way off. I didn’t recognize the characters. And when does THAT happen.
For me, the only scenes with a breath of real life in them were:
– Rowena and Clia.
– Amara’s rage/hurt at God, cuts on her face – and blood in between her teeth. I liked the blood in between her teeth but more than that I thought she played that REAL. She’s been stellar the whole season, making this completely un-real thing really real for herself the actress. I didn’t care for that scene, in general (understatement)- so poorly done – all of them just standing around watching – ugh – terrible – come ON Badham – but I thought she was there with her A-Game.
– Dean admitting in the bunker that he didn’t want to hurt Amara. I mean, it was dumb – didn’t like the script all that much – but at least it was something emotional and part of the season thru-line – as opposed to this shit between God and Lucifer that I don’t give two craps about. But I liked that little scene and I thought it was lit beautifully. I liked it under protest, though, because the whole Lucifer/God Dad/Son thing was not doing it for me. I saw what they were going for, but it did not work for me at all – in the acting of it, OR in the concept of it. Dean and Sam were both tortured in Hell – I don’t know – yes, we all move on, but … to not have ANY “nod” to that reality – like one of them having a difficult time even being in the same space as Lucifer – SOMEthing to ACKNOWLEDGE the reality … but that was absent. Again, I get what they were going for: Sam and Dean as “parents” to the squabbling “siblings” God/Lucifer – and there is something funny/absurd in that, but not if you totally sacrifice the other – to see what Sam and Dean had to “hold back” in order to team up with these people. We NEED to see whatever it is Sam and Dean have to hold back. Not this … mild-mannered slight-eye-roll thing. It was a bizarre choice and it didn’t work for me – I felt like I didn’t recognize the characters.
— Rowena waking up to the end of the world. There was something eerie and strange – and Lars-von-Trier-Melancholia-ish about that sequence – non-literal – with the autumn leaves rolling and the over-saturation of the colors – that I thought represented what SPN does really well (when it wants to do something well). Give an impression of some apocalyptic event using very simple means. Like, the entrance of Death where an oncoming apocalypse is suggested by having paper flying through the air. That scene with Rowena was eerie – and beautiful.
Rowena has no purpose in this story anymore.Neither does Castiel or Crowley, obviously. Nobody knows what to do with them anymore and the show itself has suffered because of that. We’re down to the wire now – the ensemble has winnowed down to just Sam and Dean again – sans Bobby or Charlie or Garth – and that’s a pretty precarious place to be, esPECIALLY if they’re going to give so much screentime to Castiel and Crowley and Rowena. Like: really?
There were much deeper almost systemic problems with this episode – which is why it’s disturbing – sometimes you win some sometimes you lose some – but systemic issues shouldn’t be coming up now at this point, ever – mainly being the show seeming to forget the entire first half of the season with Sam having PTSD flashbacks to the cage. It’s like it never happened. And now Sam seems … indistinct … and actually so does Dean. This late in the season and the two of them are literally standing around watching two OTHER people fight? I almost couldn’t believe what I was seeing, especially because – as much as I love Rob Benedict – his God wasn’t as compelling as Amara was – we’ve had a whole season to get curious about Amara – for me, she’s the real story – and the God/Amara thing, not to mention the God/Lucifer thing – wasn’t nearly as interesting as the Dean/Amara thing … so they seem to trying to dot the i’s and cross the t’s with all this stuff – and it’s definitely an example of them trying to do too much.
And Michael! You can’t just throw around the word “Michael” and not have some reaction shots from Sam and Dean about it – some SENSE of what that name meant to them once upon a time – but that’s just what they did. “Michael’s in the cage …” (no shots of Dean or Sam … the scene moves on …) I was like: Are you kidding me, guys? Come on. take a breath. I realize it’s the end of the season, but take a second to get your ducks in a row because this is very sloppy. They’re almost never sloppy like this.
I think Misha Collins has a tendency towards … cutesiness? That’s not the exact word. But it’s something like that. Maybe passive-aggressive self-pity is more the term, couched in the “adorable”. It’s not a good mix for me, although clearly it’s a slam-dunk with his fans. But moving on: it was this quality – in Misha Collins as an actor – not Castiel or Lucifer – that made those counseling sessions with his Dad unbearable. Besides, I don’t want Lucifer to need anyone to say “I’m sorry.” he’s the DEVIL. He’s BEYOND that shit. When Pellegrino gets cutesy little-boy-ish, it’s fucked up and disturbing. Maybe all of this would have had more oomph if Mark Pellegrino had been playing Lucifer all this time. But then what would they have done with Castiel? Therein lies the problem.
They’ve written themselves into a corner with these secondary characters. And think about it: did any of us EVER think “Okay it’s time for Bobby to die.” or “It’s time for Charlie to exit the story.” “I’m done with caring about Ellen and Jo.” Those characters ADDED to the story – every scene, every episode they were in – they were a PART of it, and they deepened our understanding of Sam and Dean and all the rest. None of these characters – the big 3 – Castiel, Crowley, Rowena – have anything to do with anything anymore. I mean, I’ve felt it all along but I REALLY felt it here – where Sam and Dean were basically support-staff to these characters who have already worn out their welcome.
There’s Jodie Mills and Sheriff Donna – but they aren’t as inner circle as Ellen/Jo/Bobby/Charlie – and maybe it’s time to just let it be the Sam/Dean show again, full-on. Back to basics, back to Season 1.
Just some thoughts.
Obviously I trust the show and the team. They don’t always get it right (nuns exploding from one another’s backsides) … but here, they seemed to REALLY get some MAJOR things wrong, like structural things. For example: the Sam Mark thing. Okay, so I felt a swoon of dismay at the thought they were going to “go there” again – yes. But worse than that – and this is a script structure thing – I would like to see THAT scene where Sam and God made that decision. Let me see THAT, as opposed to Castiel hanging out with the United Colors of Benetton angels. Or Crowley drinking Scotch and whining. STILL??? My GOD. Bring back Abaddon, for God’s sake. Like: what’s more interesting? Same ol’ same ol’ Castiel/Crowley or Sam deciding to take the reins? Sam deciding to take on the Mark, and doing so behind Dean’s back, is – potentially – THE most interesting thing in the episode last night. I’m not even saying it’s “in character” – I actually don’t think it is – but still: if you’re GOING to introduce that, then why introduce it off-camera? Why do that? And then have it confessed in this hurried exchange with Dean – where they had no time to even delve into it – and the whole thing short-changed those of us who love Sam, and who have missed Sam feeling … solid and … Sam-like. I mean, I’m glad they didn’t decide to go Mark Part Deux, but still: if you’re GOING to go there, then let us see Sam’s thought process, let us see that scene. Let us see what Sam has been going through. We know that Sam and Dean do dumb shit when the other one is threatened. And sure, this could qualify – but let us SEE Sam make that choice – OR be smooth-talked into it by God. You know? Why leave the MOST interesting thing off-screen? I mean, it didn’t even go anywhere, but still – that was part of the problem too. Do NOT short-change your lead characters like this!!
It’s fine to be obedient to tying up all the plot points you’ve dropped over the season. But not at the expense of everything else, because it’s not that kind of show. This is an everything else kind of show.
This has been a really strong season. I could barely watch this last episode. Let’s hope it’s a blip in the radar like Man’s Best Friend with Benefits, and move the hell ON.
(I still haven’t read everyone else’s comments – but I will get to them – I want to hear what everyone else has said. I just saw it last night so I was avoiding this thread like the plague.)
Maybe Mark and Misha can get cast in the new Star Trek and we can all move along.
“Win-win, huh? Win-win.”
“Stop that.”
And Ruth Connell could get on Penny Dreadful. I’d love to see more of her. They go way literary with the characters, so maybe Lady Sylvia Marsh from Lair of the White Worm. Maybe a Celtic diety. Something where long gowns are required.
Helena,
I think Sheila’s gonna need to curl up in that silk shirt of yours…
Couldn’t agree more about how impressive Swallow is — the blood in her teeth, YES!!!! — seems to me she has to make-believe the most of anyone and she sells every minute of it, with her interpretive dance, sorrow-rage-bewilderment, and acting into the nothingness of FX.
That scene with Rowena was eerie – and beautiful.
that was supercool, loved the colours.
// seems to me she has to make-believe the most of anyone and she sells every minute of it, with her interpretive dance, sorrow-rage-bewilderment, and acting into the nothingness of FX. //
Yes!! Interpretive dance – how on earth does she make this work? She is BRAVE, this actress. Imagine how terrible it could be. She definitely has to “make believe” more than anyone else – I bet she gave a kick-ass audition. I bet she came into audition with all of her ideas intact – this doesn’t feel “directed”. It feels like this is her “interpretation” and they were like, “Hell, yes, let’s go with THAT.” I could be wrong, but I’d bet money on it.
Sam playing mediator to jokey family counselling session between his own rapist and the god who created a universe in which that rape occurred as well as the deaths of everyone he loved–
backtrack–
Dean playing mediator to a jokey family counselling session between his brother’s rapist (currently wearing the face of Dean’s own best friend, who knowingly gave harbour to Sam’s rapist) and the god who didn’t care that his children were trying to start the apocalypse using Dean as an angel condom–
I mean, forgive me for being crude and reductive — that is not all Sam’s storyline is, and I wouldn’t want it to be — I don’t want a very special episode and in fact I prefer it being unspoken and messy, but you have to ACKNOWLEDGE the mess. You have to ACTIVATE it. That family counselling scene, and the one a fraction later in which Lucifer is hanging out in Sam’s room and it’s just so hilarious — these were emblematic for me of a totally misguided shift in focus that voided the episode of consequence and emotion.
Sheila I think you outlined many of the fundamental missteps here. I would have KILLED for the scene in which God tried to convince Sam to take the Mark. The throwaway line about the Mark just making you more your essential self — that is HUGE (and I don’t think they even had a Dean reaction shot?). Whether it’s true or not (I suspect it’s sidelong to the truth) that comment was KEY to the last two seasons of Dean’s storyline. Imagine God revealing this (mis?)information to Sam, and then asking what Sam’s essential nature is.
After this episode and the last I am not entirely sure. Low-functioning Tin Man? Plaid-clad masochist?
You do not have to dig very far in order to find how this apparently cosmic and non-personal story is deeply personal to both Sam and Dean. I know the writers have many masters to serve, and I actually think that parts of this episode worked quite elegantly to bring all the players to the table. But if Sam and Dean don’t feel a goddamn thing about it, why should I?
//you have to ACKNOWLEDGE the mess. You have to ACTIVATE it.//
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^^^
This ep had me confused, then in denial as to what it was about and now I’m just angry about the Sam storyline. (if I’m going all Elizabeth Kubler-Ross here, pretty sure depression is right around the corner).
I love Bob Berens, so it is still so surprising that this mess came out of one of his scripts. Remember Captives and how he captured Sam and Dean isolation and pain, or The Werther Project which is still on my top ten ep list. He has the ability to ACKNOWLEDGE Sam’s distress and pain in some way (but yes, Jessie, leave it ambiguous and messy) and he has the skills to ACTIVATE it.
So what happened? Bad direction by the showrunner? Bad day in the writing room? Was he pinch hitting for someone else at the last minute?
I know Paula!!!! My guess is that the endgame of the episode took over the rest of it, and that there wasn’t much left from last week that spoke to character. Sometimes TV writing is just an extended game of exquisite corpse.
So i just read that they did film a scene between a God and Sam talking about taking on the Mark but it was cut. That explains somewhat on the Bob Berens problem this ep. He is good when he works with a single storyline like Alex Annie Alexis Ann or The Werther Project or The Vessel, but when it is a transitional ep with a ton of moving parts like this or Our Little World, it seems a lot gets lost in translation. He said before that there were scenes in OLW that had to be cut for time reasons as well.
I’m seeing some of that too Paula! It seems like the writer’s room as a whole and the showrunner(s) have really struggled to find a way to bring the character stuff into the big plotlines so that one didn’t have to be sacrificed for the other.
John Badham is a great director too – and I wasn’t crazy about the direction here (the shots of everyone just standing around watching God and Amara). I think definitely that tying up loose ends of the endgame was the main priority – in the script and in the direction – and so the episode became a battering-ram of plot as opposed to an emotional exploration.
For me, Badham pulled out all the stops in the scene with Rowena waking up to the Apocalypse. It was actually frightening. Calling up LVT’s “Melancholia” for me, where the apocalypse is “suggested” mostly, and the atmosphere is so filled with dread and yet wonder …
I think, too, the problem is a little bit larger – and they’ve actually acknowledged it once or twice explicitly in the season: Castiel has no more use to the story. Neither does Crowley. The team’s attempts to drum up plot-points for both of them have been barely interesting. Castiel as Lucifer was most interesting in The Vessel (in my opinion) – but I think a lot of this might have been much more effective if it was still Mark Pellegrino. Nothing against Misha Collins. I think he did a fine job of imitating MP’s cadences. But Pellegrino is just so bizarre and scary and charming. (Running his finger over the pipe in the fake-kitchen talking to Castiel. I think it was Lyrie who said it looked like, “I’m gonna fuck this pipe. I’m gonna fuck the whole world.”)
So I think the main problem for me – outside of the misfire with the counseling session – is that Heaven/Hell/Crowley/Castiel have no place in the story anymore and yet … they’re still here. A difficult challenge for everyone involved. Sheppard seems bored out of his mind. Crowley is barely witty anymore. Crowley without his wit is a limp dick. It just doesn’t work – AND it doesn’t serve the story. That sense of boredom seeps into everything else. Even he and Rowena greeted one another with practically an eye-roll.
//Showrunner’s day off?//
So did you see the news? Jeremy Carver is moving on…
Because the story arch is so bad he felt guilty?
Because they wouldn’t listen to him?
Because he was ultimately, professionally responsible for this mess?
No, I’m sure he just wanted to work on something else. Time to move on. He’s been there for years, the majority of his professional career.
But yes. I’ll miss him a lot.
//No, I’m sure he just wanted to work on something else./
It was the frustration talking and I was entertaining notions of someone falling on their sword metaphorically speaking, anyway.
I don’t really hold Jeremy Carver individually responsible for this mess. That would be more of an ‘I am Spartacus’ type collective responsibility.
But it’s good to move on and essential to get fresh people on board, so we’ll see the impact of that in the coming season ( … when they finally go into space.)
Carver seeing the rough cut: “WHAT HAVE I DONE?” (runs out of the building into the night, never to be seen again.)
and yes! Fresh people (fresh blood)! Hopefully whoever it is GETS why we’re all into it.
// an ‘I am Spartacus’ type collective responsibility//
Hahaha
//when they finally go into space.//
Can’t wait for the tentacles!
Dirty! I thought we said this wasn’t the place for fan fiction!
//None of these characters – the big 3 – Castiel, Crowley, Rowena – have anything to do with anything anymore.//
Rowena – they actually had the perfect end for her. It doesn’t get any better for a conniving, backstabbing, two-timing witch than having your neck snapped by Lucifer. Why?
Crowley – needs to be demoted back to schlepping souls at the crossroads. “Oh please don’t throw me into dat briar patch…”
Castiel – If only Dean at the end of last season, completely under the moc influence, had ended Cass with that angel blade… then I might have actually believed the urgency of Dean’s suicide by Death. It would have had a similar impact to Sam killing Kevin, tragic and meaningful.
Chuck – his brief appearance at the end of Fan Fiction was perfect! Even Don’t Call Me Shurley was OK because it left enough mystery and godlike power on the table, but what has ensued with his character is exactly what I dreaded for Chuck as god.
// what has ensued with his character is exactly what I dreaded for Chuck as god. //
Interesting. Me too.
and yes: his appearance at the end of Fan Fiction STILL kills me – no matter how many times I’ve seen it – AND!! AND! I ALWAYS forget it’s coming. I always forget that there’s that little epilogue!
It was gorgeous.
And if that was God … then where is THAT God? Who is this lazy-bones eating Chinese food?
Loved “Shurley” too. It’s been the last 2 episodes that ruined my interest.
I mean, not for all time. But, you know – in that whole Arc and where they’re going with it.
Yes. This is a pretty definitive comment. “What Jessie said”, basically.
That’s the betrayal that I think some of us feel in this episode. And the disappointment (for me) is that it seems like it would have been an easy fix – literally, one or two close-ups of Sam or Dean – reacting to Lucifer being close to them – would have done the trick. Problem solved. (I know, it’s so easy to be a backseat driver … )
Like I said upthread somewhere: The counseling session would have been fine by me (Castiel as bored teen notwithstanding) if you had felt Sam or Dean holding back their rage or fear in order to get the job done. These are tough guys. They’re not gonna fall apart. But to feel the nausea – or terror – or flashbacks – being that close to Lucifer – give us one or two closeups and we have the whole story.
Remember the grave-digging scene from Into the Mystic – and the later one in the kitchen – where Sam admitted that being close to Lucifer brought up all this stuff …
Where was ANY of that? It’s been SET UP. Follow through. They normally follow through so well. I don’t get it.
// Low-functioning Tin Man? Plaid-clad masochist? //
hahahaha
I’m in two minds about this episode. I don’t like that they played the first half for comedy. I mean, seriously? It’s the penultimate episode in the season, and we need more gravity at this point. Plus, the fact that it was very out of character for Sam and Dean. For me, it felt more like a fanfic instead of an actual episode of Supernatural.
But, I thought it worked on a meta level. It seemed to me like the group (‘band of brothers’) they assembled were playing in the sandbox, not taking Amara seriously enough to make a better plan. They weren’t serious enough about the threat she posed (which was reflected in the tone of the episode), and so they underestimated her, or rather forgot the gravity of the situation. I liked that when Amara finally confronted them, the tone of the episode entirely changed, and she showed how powerful she really was, reminding them all that the end-of-the-world should not be played for shits and giggles.
As a side-note, I like that they have under-powered God. Given the world of Supernatural, and the lack of previous intervention from Chuck, it makes sense that God is not omnipotent, omniscient and perfect, despite having the power to create. Otherwise, it would have been too easy to resolve the problems in Supernatural by playing the God card.
Miriam –
Thanks for this!
I like your point about people underestimating Amara (which has been present through the whole episode. Everyone tries to kill her, thinking she can be killed.) The only person who has NOT underestimated her has been Dean.
// it makes sense that God is not omnipotent, omniscient and perfect, despite having the power to create. Otherwise, it would have been too easy to resolve the problems in Supernatural by playing the God card. //
I definitely agree with this! I love that brief scene with Joshua in the garden. So long ago, but it still has resonance.
What does #Redeemed mean, please?
It’s a game we played back at the beginning of the season when Sam said he wanted to try to save everybody. It started with #RedeemtheDarkness, #RedeemLucifer, then we began “redeeming even the worst episodes like Mans Best Friend with Benefits. For example: Back in Black is redeemed for my by the gorgeous scene with Dean in theconfessional. #BiBRedeemed
Mostly its just a light hearted way to be positive about a terrible episode (like this one) encouraging you to look for what you did like vs what you didn’t.
Aha.
Well, I can see the good in everything – or find at least a nugget of goodness – even with nuns’-exploding-out-of-their-own-backsides (the worst episode in the entire series bar none). There was a cute scene where Dean and the nun sort of flirted/bonded. It was, like, 2 lines, but it was classic Dean. Other than that: horrifying! Pirate shirt!! Flashbacks – nooooo!
Hard to believe explosive nun farts and this can even be in the same episode:
https://goo.gl/images/9IbVuQ
And, yes, Dean flirting with the nun. He just can’t turn it off. Ha!
I called it ‘Back in Black’ when it’s ‘Paint it Black’. Wow, Melanie, way to mix-up your rock references.
*classic rock
Oh yeah! That was a great scene too!
“explosive nun farts” … dying …
I’m not sure if the Stones classify as “classic rock.” I’ve actually been thinking about this off and on lately. Actually I kNOW that they don’t classify.
I think the whole “classic rock” thing happened because bands like Metallica and Motorhead (referenced in the pilot) charge exorbitant prices for their songs. Ac/DC and Ozzy show up – Led Zeppelin is noticeably absent as well, although they’re referenced all the time. I wouldn’t call Led Z “classic rock” either. Kansas? Yes. The Stones?? Hell to the No.
As much as I love Bob Seger, I’m more of a metal-head and I love the image of Dean – not to mention John – as a head-banger.
I totally trust your superior knowledge on this subject. My only criteria is older/old as me…
Yeah, no, it’s a specific thing, and the songs exist in about a 20-year period – and the whole thing was mainly created by radio stations so that they could attract older listeners. So it’s not the oldies – or classic rock ‘n’ roll, like Elvis, or Jerry Lee Lewis, or Little Richard. It’s mostly late 70s/80s stuff – with some truly classic songs – but a lot of shit, and not radical at all. Not scary or gigantic superstars like the Stones. Classic rock are bands like The Eagles, Chicago, Kansas, Joe Walsh, Bob Seger. Rush. America. Genesis probably qualifies. Tom Petty. Steve Miller Band, for SURE. Boston. These are the things that automatically come to mind when I think of classic rock – although you can hear Stones/Beatles/Blue Oyster Cult/Van Halen on “classic rock” radio stations too. (And I love many of these bands, and own a lot of their music. But outside of “classic rock” stations, you rarely hear any of their stuff ever, whereas the Stones are much bigger. I’d just call them rock ‘n’ roll, period.)
If John Winchester was listening to this stuff, then what that says to me he plays it pretty safe, in terms of musical taste. But listening to METALLICA in the early 80s? When everyone else was listening to Bryan Adams? RADICAL. So that’s why I liked all the metal-head cassette tapes in the car – metal still rarely gets radio play – at least not the really hard stuff. And it took years for radio stations to “cave” to the pressure to put Metallica on the air.
So I kind of liked THAT context for the Winchesters – as opposed to classic rock – which is, generally, softer, safer, pasty-white-middle-aged-dudes kind of music. Or at least that’s what it’s become (because if you listen to, say, Bob Seger’s lyrics – he was living just as wild and depraved a rock star life as Jagger.) But now it’s… you know. You play “Old Time Rock ‘n’ Roll” at wedding receptions.
My 2 cents.
and I know that Metallica rarely lets anyone use their songs for anything ever. There’s a reason you don’t hear a lot of Metallica songs on movie soundtracks. Never on commercials. (Same with Elvis, by the way. Lisa Marie has done what she can to pick and choose very carefully who “gets” to use one of her dad’s songs.) Metallica’s attitude is: “Yup. We’re Metallica. We don’t need your money. Fuck off.” Ha. Now THAT’S a rock star move.
Was at the grocery store today when “Your Momma Don’t Dance (and Your Daddy Won’t Rock-n-Roll)” came on. I understand what you’re saying. That’s Radio Station Classic Rock.
I love Tom Petty (not saying you don’t), and I wouldn’t put him that category. I can’t really imagine “Don’t Come Around Here No More” being played when I’m buying blackberries.
Steve Miller, what a class act.
But don’t say nothin’ bad about Rush. Or pasty (now that I’m in Seattle rather than Kauai) white middle-aged dudes.
Classic Rock is decent music to buy things to. That’s my stab at a definition.
Yes- Your Momma Don’t Dance!! Exactly.
I’m not saying anything against all those guys. I have stuff by most of them. Okay, not Genesis. I looooove Tom Petty- but he mostly gets played on “classic rock” stations nowadays, and then only one or two of his songs. Like, that’s it.
My point remains: “Classic rock” is not “oldies”. It’s not a genre. But everyone knows what you mean when you say it. You know the radio stations that are “classic rock” stations and you know the songs they’re gonna play – AND you don’t hear those songs elsewhere. Ever. Except on iPod shuffle.
Like: Cheap Trick.
Looooove them.
They are a strictly “classic rock” radio station band.
‘K.
I have tickets to a Joan Jett/Heart/Cheap Trick concert in August. Certainly love. Absolutely Classic Rock. Wish Bun E. was playing with them.
I get your definition.
Oh my God that sounds like it’s gonna be an amazing show.
Fun article in the NYT today about who would be remembered for Rock music 300 years from now – the premise being that it would be reduced to one person.
From the always entertaining Chuck Klosterman.
For all I know, you helped research this. Hope I’m not mansplaining…
Passing on a link is not mansplaining. hahaha I did read that, though!
Have you read Chuck Klosterman’s essay on his relationship to the Eagles (speaking of “classic rock”)? It’s in his “black hat” book and it’s hilarious. He can’t stop thinking about them. He hates them. He’s obsessed. They drive him out of his MIND.
I’ve read it. The Eagles have some great songs, but I’m completely sympathetic to The Dude telling the taxi driver “I hate the fucking Eagles, man.”
It’s a rare “gift” to be so popular and so hated.
Now I’m thinking of Sam Elliot. Much better mustache than Nietzsche.
http://www.sheilaomalley.com/?p=107894
I think this was the first occurrence Oct 17th, but the game must have been after the awkward episode 3 before Baby.
End of days when you and I finally figured out how to do hyperlinks in the same thread :)
I know, right?
GIFs are next, Girlfriend…
I was wrong. We played the game during the holiday hiatus around Dec 20th – 26th when people began enumerating their must/never rewatch episodes.
http://www.sheilaomalley.com/?p=111198
So, Um, I’ve been skimming the comments, trying not to get too emotionally involved. But, hey this is Supernatural, and for me it’s all about emotion and relationships. Not just between the brothers and the other characters, but between me and the show.
I’m not a sports person as such but at the moment I feel like a soccer fan whose team made it to the semi final of the world cup and lost. They played well during the early stages, with some brilliant matches highlightling their abilities (I’m looking at Baby and Red Meat for example). Here the talent of cast and crew and technical details merged resulting in joy. The last few episodes were the quater finals, hard earned, not quite hitting the mark, but you know, after 11 seasons, it was all heart. Then to come to the semi-final… well I feel that the cast and crew brought their A game, but the writers choked. They completely changed the play book leaving everyone swinging in the air. So we’re going into the final, and I feel that our team got there by default because the other team got disqualified. We all need that redemption now.
Oh, and Sheila? We’re going to need those episode recaps to feed our addiction and see us through to next season ;) no pressure. *me on my knees making cross road deals for more from Sheila and company*
Foxy Lady – your sports analogy is a very good one!!
and hahaha to your last comment. I know!! I feel that pressure myself! This spring has been crazy – I’ve been living like Keith Richards in hotel rooms going to film festivals and I have barely had time for other writing. But yes: summer hiatus HAS been on my mind for more recaps – the WONDERFUL two-part season finale for Season 2, for starters. So much to discuss!!
:) I will do my best, I PROMISE.
// They’ve written themselves into a corner with these secondary characters. And think about it: did any of us EVER think “Okay it’s time for Bobby to die.” or “It’s time for Charlie to exit the story.” “I’m done with caring about Ellen and Jo.” //
And I’m honestly starting to think that I’d like Supernatural to stop before it becomes the ghost of what it used to be.
You all pointed out what didn’t work, so I won’t repeat because I agree. I must that for me, also, the problem comes from God. Wait, THAT’S God? The Don’t Call Me Shurley episode worked great for me, because it was God and Metatron, it was out of this world, it suggested we were seeing only the tip of the iceberg. But if is just that, sorry, but it sucks. I’m fine with an imperfect god, who fled, abandoned us, made mistakes, has ego issues. Fine. But when the ultimate forces of creation and destruction fight, that’s, what, a light show and a guy in Converse on the floor? That’s ridiculous. Almost as much as the conversation between father and son. That’s God and the devil? Are you fucking kidding me? Ri. di. cu. lous. Remember when Death made us (and the characters) piss our pants? That’s what Death, God, Lucifer are supposed to be. Or else it becomes a sitcom, and that’s another show.
OK, I needed to rant. I’m done. I’ll be back with stupid gifs.
I love your rant Lyrie! And I agree with much of it and I know I have written 1000 words on this very page critiquing the episode.
But just let me say to myself and us all–
There comes a time in every fan’s life where she says what is this, I don’t recognise this, why are they making it and why am I watching–
It’s happened to me several times with this very show, but it’s never lasted particularly in retrospect–
This is a collaborative and messy medium with inevitable ups and downs–
This is just a few mythology episodes, that have not always been the show’s greatest strength–
This season has been on the whole so good at delivering what these episodes missed, and even these episodes had strengths–
And there’s always next week! (don’t say that’s what you’re afraid of, Helena)
Y’all are great and it’s gonna be okay.
OK, I will try to be optimistic.
Yes, zippedi-do-da! (That’s what I always think when I see that clip–closely followed by “Idgit”.)
//This is a collaborative and messy medium with inevitable ups and downs// And that is the absolute truth about tv in general.
Thanks, Jesse, for soothing my sore fangirl heart–
I agree – Jessie’s point is so important to remember!
And this season has been sooooo good. I’ve loved it.
Jessie – I cannot stop laughing about that gif you linked to.
HAHAHA
In general, I agree totally. You win some, you lose some. This is a big LOSE, but – in looking over the series as a whole – I don’t think they’ve EVER done THIS poorly – it feels like an anomaly. I think that’s why many of us are so shocked and disappointed.
To put a positive spin on it: we may be so shocked and disappointed because it happens so rarely.
Or, I will just say that that is what is going on with me.
The deeper systemic issues I have with the episode remain – and I just hope this is a big ol’ BLIP of “whoops, we missed the Mark (of Cain) on this one.”
ha ha omg I know, you can always trust Redford.
I’ve been trying to contextualise this feeling too and to be honest I wouldn’t put this one down there with their worst episodes. I would watch it before Bloodlines, or Man’s Best Friend, or Caged Heat. I would probably watch it before this season’s own Bad Seed or even Hell’s Angel.
Now Bloodlines we could write off as a blip because we were aware of its status as a spin-off launcher, etc. I think the shock and disappointment (I feel it too) here lies in that sense that Sam and Dean have been sidelined and warped in favour of some half-baked mythology that has to accommodate peoples’ contracts. But, you know, they’ll have to work pretty hard to convince me that they’ve forgotten where the engine of the show is!
// But when the ultimate forces of creation and destruction fight, that’s, what, a light show and a guy in Converse on the floor? //
hahahahahaha
Member when I asked the question at one point; “So wait, what’s Castiel’s status now as an angel?” You breezed in with “Don’t know, don’t care.” Still laughing.
// Remember when Death made us (and the characters) piss our pants? That’s what Death, God, Lucifer are supposed to be. Or else it becomes a sitcom, and that’s another show. //
I definitely agree with this.
I am looking at this as a pretty big “misfire” but not a fatal blow or anything like that. Hopefully when this is wrapped up – we won’t see this God again, and maybe at least one or two of the Big 3 Problems (Cas/Crowley/Rowena) will be neutralized/vanished – something.
In my opinion – the big season-wide arcs have always been somewhat “weak” in SPN – not all of them (loved Dean/Michael, Sam/Lucifer – that might be my favorite – although Sam/Ruby/Lilith was also really effective) – but sometimes they feel forced in ways that individual episodes, MOTW episodes – or “mini” Arcs – like Soulless Sam, or Dean and Lisa – don’t.
Like the Leviathan arc – the whole thing was what the Leviathan were PLANNING on doing, as opposed to alREADY doing. So it was a weak Arc because of that. (Just my opinions.) But since they have these long long seasons, we get so many other goodies along the way.
To say a bit more clearly; I like the individual episodes best – and the ongoing EMOTIONAL arcs – which this particular episode sacrificed (awkwardly and badly). But the ongoing shit between Sam and Dean – always fascinating, in every episode. I like what seems to be a buried and yet present arc in this season which has to do with Sam and Dean both starting to think about growing older, and “is this all there is”, and “what will become of us”. They aren’t kids anymore. Sam saved the retirement community flier. I have been loving that Arc.
So this show-down seemed a particularly bad example of what happens often with SPN – a failure of the imagination when it comes to final showdowns. I loved the showdown between Dean and Cain – in terms of emotions and how they both played it – but in the end, it was just another fist fight. This happens all the time and I’ve gotten used to it and it doesn’t really bother me anymore.
In THIS episode, it did – but that was mainly because of all the other things wrong with it.
//I’d like Supernatural to stop before it becomes the ghost of what it used to be.//
I follow @spn_shot on Twitter who recently posted 4 shots from Abandon All Hope. When I looked at the shot of Dean pointing the Colt at Lucifer’s head my gut clinched! That is what it should be like and this is a flimsy shadow.
This was a bad, bad, bad episode, but now I’m just going to accept that and move on. Let’s remember: this season has, on the whole, been excellent. Also the fact that this mess came from two people whom we know to be extremely capable- so I think I’m just going to have to write this off as a bad day for everyone. A really bad day.
This whole thing was shockingly miscalculated, but the rest of the season has been extremely good in acknowledging that history lying behind the plot (Sam’s Hell stuff, for instance- I actually think it’s dealt with that far better than Season Seven did). I just… I have no idea what went wrong here, but it’s not something that often goes wrong in SPN. And I think that 11×21 seems worse in the light of 11×22, if that makes sense.
Will say one thing for this stretch of episodes: there’s a real sense of the world ending Right Now. Like that incredible moment in Don’t Call Me Shurley when Sam and Dean turned round and realised that the fog was literally feet away.
Wren –
// Also the fact that this mess came from two people whom we know to be extremely capable- so I think I’m just going to have to write this off as a bad day for everyone. A really bad day. //
I’m totally with you on this one.
An anomaly.
I love that we can all talk to each other in this way. Working shit out and trying to work out our feelings. :)
// I have no idea what went wrong here, but it’s not something that often goes wrong in SPN. //
Cosign.
// And I think that 11×21 seems worse in the light of 11×22, if that makes sense. //
Wait … can you talk more about this?
// there’s a real sense of the world ending Right Now. //
I agree with this. Even back at the beginning of the season – with that creepy abandoned town with the TV playing Night of the Hunter … and Billie singing in the hallway … an End of Days feeling.
About 11×21 seeming worse after 11×22- 11×21 had some issues, for me, that could have been made non-issues by 11×22. And weren’t. Like the lack of ‘dealing’ (or acknowledging) the Sam/Lucifer stuff, or Chuck’s weirdness. Like- Don’t Call Me Shurley made me like Chuck, and All In The Family- well, the ‘enabling’ speech was pretty off-putting.
What’s also interesting to me is that s10’s The Prisoner seems a lot stronger in retrospect after having watched 11×22. It’s kinda made me realise how disturbing & emotionally grounded it was- two things that s10 and s11 have been extremely strong on in the main.
As for the End of Days thing, I kind of love that they’re finding a way to do that that’s just as impressive as s5’s End of Days thing- it’s eerie in a different way- and definitely more impressive than the whole Soylent Green apocalypse of s7. It’s something new. If the whole of 11×22 had been in the vein of that gorgeous last scene with Rowena (I love how we didn’t actually see what she was looking at), it would have been fabulous. The first two episodes of the season were so good in setting all that up. Billie singing in the hallway… yikes. It’s been really chilling by turns. I got shivers when the Cage was mentioned in the premiere.
//Almost as much as the conversation between father and son. //
re the whole God/grumpy Lucifer thin, I can’t believe noone has said, ‘He’s not the son of God, he’s a very naughty boy’ yet. So I’m saying it.
Thanks Helena, it had to be said. And you and Jessie are right. I’m going to try on the bright side of… terrible episodes.:)
Obviously the verb “look” is missing. I can’t write anymore. Dammit.
Thinking back on previous seasons, there were several instances where the season finale bounced back from a weak second-to-last episode. Season 3 had “Time Is On My Side” which led into “No Rest For The Wicked” (admittedly this was probably more of a writers strike issue but still). Season 6 had “Let It Bleed” then “The Man Who Knew Too Much”. Season 9 had “Stairway To Heaven” (I still cringe about the prom decorations) into “Do You Believe In Miracles?”
I have hopes the last ep will recapture the feeling of this season (work with me on this people).
//he’s a very naughty boy// If they introduce a character named Brian in the finale, I’m dead.
//If they introduce a character named Brian in the finale, I’m dead//
haha, fingers crossed for Brian’s appearance next week! Or Season 12 premiere.
Altogether now, what have demons ever done for us?
People called Winchesters they go the bunker?
I’m sure I spotted Brian already!
My biggest disappointment: No leg moments.
TELL ME ABOUT IT.
I had hoped that the two of them stalking down the bunker hallway to bang on God’s door might turn into a Legs Moment. I was desperate at that point.
Although we did get a shot the two of them crowded on the step in front of the telescope, legs extended out like little kids. Not quite a legs shot but we did get the telescope behind them. Bunker porn *sighs*
Not gonna lie, I quite liked the prom decorations (hides face)
I think we can all generally agree that this penultimate episode was no where near what we expected but let’s step back a bit and ignore the minutia for a minute.
I’m going into fantasy mode (not fan fic) for a minute and suggest that maybe Season 11 is truly a reboot. That maybe the title “Alpha and Omega” means exactly what it means: the Beginning and the End. Therefore since all of the principal players are needed to stop Amara (Sam, Dean, Crowley, Castiel, Rowena and Chuck) because He doesn’t have that kind of firepower this time around, he has to substitute with what he has. Which could mean that the prerequisite season ending cliff-hanger consists of who survives at the end.
Maybe the SPN field has gotten a bit crowded. Maybe they need to clean house and this is a perfect way to do so in order to get back to the emotional heart of the show, Sam and Dean Winchester.
We can but speculate.
Carolyn – yes, that occurred to me as well. Maybe just a wish-fulfillment – but the MOTW episodes this season have been so strong, so DIFFERENT – each one its own world – Sam and Dean Sam and Dean … and the big ol’ Arc has been an “interruption” in a weird way – except for Sam/cage and Dean/Amara. It reminds me of the season with Hannah a bit – her stuff was so OFF – and the whole thing came screeching to a halt when she entered with Cas. and there (felt like) there was so MUCH of her.
This season hasn’t been that extreme, in my opinion, although Cas/Crowley/Rowena have been totally useless and uninteresting – not enemies, foes, friends, just … nothing.
But all of the other stuff on the ground with Sam and Dean has been sooooo strong. (That talk in the back of the car in “Baby”!!)
so maybe yes. In a lot of ways I have felt that this season has represented a “getting back” to what the show is really about, or what it started to be about. and yet now, they’re pushing middle age and there are all kinds of other issues coming up with that – fascinating. Sam being drawn to the hunter in the retirement center. I am sure that will come back up again. “Call … if you want to hang out …” ??
In this universe, these guys don’t say shit like this unless it’s going to come back. I hope it does come back because I am already invested, because I have no life.
so I do have a feeling that we are approaching verrrry interesting territory right now.
The talk in the back of the car… another one of those haunting scenes that this season is doing so well. ‘You were singing in your sleep.’ I was PRICKLING.
Me too. Incredible scene. No music, as I recall. Nothing to tell us how to feel. Just actors and atmosphere and words. One of my favorite scenes in the whole series now!
Also- what you said about the show getting back to what it’s really about- I’ve been thinking that for a while. I mean, Baby was 100% alllllll about that. Red Meat could actually have been in s1, except for, you know, bigger Winchesters. And there’s also the fact that this is probably the ‘nicest’ Sam and Dean have been to each other, /ever/, for a season. Or rather- they’ve never had this few issues with each other before. They’ve gone through all the tangliness of seasons like Eight and Nine and come out the other side, so to speak. There’s a real sense of an emerging endgame, and of getting back to their roots.
I love the fact that Season 11 has proven, once and for all, that the show will indeed go on and be watchable and gripping even with Sam and Dean getting along. I think sometimes they feel they have to threaten that relationship to up the tension – and I get that – and sometimes it has REALLY worked – but those were mostly in the earlier seasons. Now? It’s been so nice to see them both past that.
They’re both still all messed up but the relationship is much more secure. The apology for Purgatory – Dean saying he forgiven Sam – and I believed it. It’s in the past. I think “Fan Fiction” was a real turning point in all of this, come to think of it.
Yes to Fan Fiction as the turning point. That incredible moment in the car at the end, with the ‘Single Man Tear’ theme still playing, where Dean hangs up the amulet- that LOOK they give each other. I don’t think we’ve ever seen anything like that before. It’s a moment of pure reassurance, for want of a better word. That couldn’t /not/ be a turning point.
Dean jamming out to his mother’s death …
I mean, you know things have shifted when you see something like that.
//the MOTW episodes this season have been so strong – San and Dean, Same and Dean//
Yes. What’s interesting to me in these MOTW episodes is that they haven’t called in anyone. They’ve done the research, they’ve found the weapons. They seem to need only human help – other hunters, or the sheriffs. They’ve haven’t seem to need extraordinary/supernatural help very much season, except when they are dealing with Amara.
Good point! They’ve basically become Bobby and Rufus without me even really noticing.
So if it reassures anyone, the SPN post-production team have released a video that has made me feel much, much better about the prospect of the finale.
Thanks for this reassurance, Wren. I won’t watch it yet, but the fact that it reassured you makes me feel better too.
Let’s all hold hands as we head towards the season end.
That gif use moves me, Helena. It moves me deeply. *solemnly takes your hand*
… tears …
Oh, yes, take my hand
Everyone hold on tight.
Gripping hands across virtual space…
Oh-
I have admitted to being a crying idgit–now here I go again. That movie gutted me, as much as Dean’s speech to his dad’s gravestone. (My kids thought I was insane.)
I second Wren’s recommendation of the latest video from the editor team. It’s called “Sacrificio”, the vocals are by Emily Swallow, Briana Buckmaster and Ruth Connell, and it only has one spoiler shot from the finale. It’s beautiful.
Barb- so glad you saw it. Wasn’t it gorgeous? I love videos that tie together all 11 seasons of mythos like that. There’s such a beautiful sense of scale- you really felt the heroism in this one. And the complete focus in Sacrificio on Sam & Dean was very encouraging.
Optimistic thought: perhaps they deliberately released that after that disaster of an episode as a means of reassuring us that they have not, in fact, forgotten what show they’re working on.
also, not gonna lie, this thread is adorable (sniffs)
//so I do have a feeling that we are approaching verrrry interesting territory right now.//
Agreed. Writers and show runners leaving because perhaps nobody wants to have to write the impossible ending that can never satisfy themselves or the fans…
Well that came in the wrong spot.
Way to spoil the beautiful mood, Melanie..
OK, OK, I’m with you guys, #IWantToBelieve
I mean, if this can happen … then all great things are possible.
Ha! That was so ridiculously awesome.
Haha, blessed miracle of the shrooms.
There is a god of Wild Possibilities.
I want Amara to live. She’s a very sympathetic villain and God’s been a dick. I feel the show wants us to feel this way, too, that’s where we’re being led. God’s whole “without the darkness there is no light” ying/yang speech. I suspect both will be locked away in the finale. And next season will deal with the fall out. Rowena will be a mortal human who will have to deal with her identity sans magic and her choices as a mother and grandmother ( I predict the grandson will return) (hopefully without the obvious lip piercing). I’m not sure how this will affect the angels and demons. Perhaps they will all be human again? And, honestly, if both sides need souls as a power source, what difference does it make to humans? You have to be dead to give up your soul, whether to heaven or hell.
I predict the monsters will stay the same, as they are unaffected by the heaven and hell dynamic. Sam and Dean teach Rowena to be a hunter (now in jeans and a tank top), Crowley and son join, as do all the angels and demons. Sam and Dean, having realised their destiny to end the necessary apocalypse between heaven and hell, can retire satisfied they’ve done their part.
However, we still need a big bad for season 12. What will it be? I can see the show deciding that the angels and demons try to free God and Amara, in order to continue with the status quo. I hope instead, they go with another threat to all of Earth, from -yes, wait for it- Aliens! And they have to get all the monsters to work together to defeat the Alien invasion… Vampires, with their super speed and strength, wendigos, with their insatiable appetite, etc.
Just FYI – that’s where I’d go!
But I do see, for sure, God and Amara getting locked up. And that’s an end-game for Sam and Dean, leading to them retiring and living a different life, if still possible for them.
Do you think they are hiring writers for the show? :)