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Well, that was barely better than last week’s swill. I got revved up during “Carry on my Wayward Son” and it was downhill from there. Everyone looked sad and lethargic. It felt like there was checklist of things to do: Sam and Dean broment, snarky Crowley, Sam bitchface, Dean impassioned speech, Cas & Dean reunion, etc.
The big Dean vs Chuck vs Amara thing fizzled like a wet firecracker. So, Amara gets a conscience after a short convo about family with the sweet old lady? I wanted to punch my TV in the face after that nonsense. What a big dud. Billie was OK – she brought a little life and tension on the screen during her scene.
I really hope the God siblings stay gone. Andrew Dabb, I’m shaking my head.
TEAPOTS!!!!!
I actually loved that. Only part I thought was weird was Amara’s sudden conscience, but thought the rest was fantastic. (Not sure what SPN thinks British people talk like, though.)
Well OF COURSE we all talk like Lady Penelope from Thunderbirds ALL THE TIME
but that funny voice Dean did (Scots –> British Isles –>so go figure) had me making cat-horking-up-furballs noises it was so bad. So. So. Cringemakingly. Bad.
Like, Russell Crowe in Robin Hood bad
IT WAS MEANT TO BE BAD
ahem, (attempts posh British accent, veers wildly betweeen Wales and the Indian subcontinent)this is what the London Chapter of People of Lettersreally looks like.
Lol.
Some parts had me scratching my head, but overall it was better than expected. Always wanted Sam to go on that MoL exchange program to Europe but not like this.
I love the fact that Mary is back. It opens up all sorts of crazy possibilities. Because someone needs to get on a plane and bring our Sam back from Europe. Maybe it can kick-ass hunter Mary teaming up with Eileen who probably knows all the Brit MoL and hunters? Be still my heart.
And I’m weirdly ok with the bad guys next season just being other Men of Letters. Just a human storyline without angels and demons.
//I love the fact that Mary is back.//
Paula, I might have to file for a Paulanie mindmeld divorce! I think it is creepy that an almost 40 year old man would want/need his mommy most of all. Almost as creepy as Grandpa Samuel making demon deals to bring back his beloved Mary – skin-crawling, creepy! And not just that, but she’s damsel-in-distressing in the woods at night in her Little House on the Prarie nightgown calling, “help” weakly, as Dean stumbles in to rescue her – #oedipusissues.
Freaking Mary Winchester who knows the hunter drill, knows about demons and how to fight them, trap them, exorcise them makes a 10 year deal with Yellow Eyes and then does zero, zip, nada to protect, warn, hide her family. She doesn’t even try to run away like she said she wanted to. #runningawayyou’redoingitwrong
She stays right there in Lawrence so the demon will be sure to know right where she lives when he comes to collect.
To be fair I think Mary’s tragic flaw was a victim of plot mechanics (Mary was the victim and her flaw was the tragic result). No mother would be so callous as to leave her babies so vulnerable to something so potentially evil (YE killed both her parents and John). I also think that she would have shared with John (1) because she loved him and it’s hard to keep something big like that from your spouse (hmmm Sam & Jess?) (2) John was smart and would have asked a lot of questions about Samuel’s & Deanna’s deaths (3) John was a badass, battle hardened Marine who would certainly have proved useful in a fight to keep her children safe. It’seems just inconceivable that she would have done nothing. Writers: “Sorry” from her ghost just doesn’t cover it.
End of ‘Freaking Mary Winchester’ rant. Thanks for letting me get that off my chest.
In Mary’s defense, didn’t the angels alter her memories to ensure that Azazel would kill her? And it’s gotta be freaky and disorienting to just find yourself suddenly alive and alone in your nightgown in the middle of the night.
As far as Dean still needing his mommy, unresolved trauma is pretty complex. The part of him that still wants/needs Mary isn’t almost 40, it’s still the traumatized 4-year-old who saw his mother burn and never got to process that effectively.
That said, just bringing Mary back won’t be a magical fix to all of Dean’s history, because 1. Where would the story go then?, and 2. That’s not how trauma resolution works.
I have mixed feelings about this episode overall, but I do think this is going to make for an interesting season 12.
//That’s not how trauma resolution works.//
Exactly, and besides I kinda like my Winchesters messed up. We’ve just had a year of the mega siblings and their mega issues and 2 years of the whole Crowley/Rowena mega mommy issues. Give it a rest.
// We’ve just had a year of the mega siblings and their mega issues and 2 years of the whole Crowley/Rowena mega mommy issues. Give it a rest. //
Cosign!! Cosign in capital letters!!
//a victim of plot mechanics// Mary and her story have been retconned so many times (although they had it right in S1 Home that she felt the need to apologize to Sam which is amazing given where her story takes us.)
I agree with a lot of this (maybe we just need a separation and not divorce?) and that’s why I think it will be interesting to see where they take this. How are they going to change it up now? She gave up Sam in a deal with YED before he was born, which was unforgivable, and yet we know her memories were erased by angels as Natalie says.
Also all the focus on family and Toni’s family tree on the investigation board makes me think we’re going to find more family for Sam and Dean.
Didn’t Samuel say they are relatives chopped heads off vamps on the Mayflower? Give me Renaissance era flashbacks of Campbell hunters (or better yet send Sam and Dean back) so that they can swing axes and drink mead. *sighs*
/a Paulanie mindmeld divorce/
I didn’t try it, but I’m told that counseling can help.
And if you divorce, who will get which set of friends? Think of us before you do anything drastic. (said with Maximum Bambi-eyes).
Ok, Ok. “Retconned” is kinda the perfect word I was looking for. (How do you DO that?) I have the impression that the mind wipe was for that time travel event only (Also a cruel and lazy man’s plot device. ) But… I’ll agree to disagree (if only to get Mutecypher to stop with the Bambi eyes, I think he wants a laser gun…)
If Mary had made her deal in her early 20s and died 10 years later then she would be younger than both Dean and Sam at this point (presuming she stopped ageing when she died, not the older Mary of WIAWSNB). I’m not a purist, but I’m having trouble being ok with this whole plot development.
What the heck, I hated the resolution of the MOC storyline in the season 10 finale, but at least it was exciting. I didn’t hate this, but it was pretty ho hum. Maybe because I could see it coming from a mile away.
//I think he wants a laser gun…)//
Correction: flamethrower
//A flame-thrower would really cheer me up.//
Whenever I mention my desire for a flamethrower, my wiser friends remind me that the 5 most common last words are “Hold my beer, watch this.”
My youngest daughter is like, “Wonder what happens when I do this…” (cooking spray+ grill lighter)
I’ll just say, we don’t have a wendigo problem…
It’s really weird because I’m now working on the All Hell Breaks Loose Part 1 re-cap – and Mary’s line “It’s you” when she enters the nursery is now fresh in my head. That was one of those crazy moments early on – before Dean went back in time – when you realized that all is not what it seemed.
and yeah, Mary has been brought out time and time again – because this is a show about trauma and orphans and motherless people, parentless people, and two grown men (one in particular) who cannot recover from his mother being ripped away from him. She has great psychological resonance, she’s a total Achilles heel, and it’s been a while since we’ve dealt with her – the mention of her in “Baby” took my breath away. I agree with Natalie’s comments below – including mixed feelings, although I liked it a bit more than other people seem to.
I find Mary returning totally intriguing. Dean is almost 40 now and this is still unfinished business because it always will be. We’ve talked about trauma so much in these re-caps – and how that event formed him – as well as his father not allowing him to grieve, and roping him into a family-cult-revenge-machine.
I’ll need to watch again to see what else I get, but I too think Season 12 is going to be interesting. But Rowena and Crowley … ugh. I realize the show is pretty much stuck with Castiel at this point. It felt to me in Season 11 that the show itself was acknowledging that. “Okay, so you have zero reason to be here anymore, so let’s let you be Lucifer for a bit.” But Cas as Cas? Wet blanket. It pains me to say that.
anyhoo, we shall see where this all goes!
// Just a human storyline without angels and demons. //
This is also a huge relief to me.
Back to comment properly.
-Thought it was beautifully shot, for one thing.
-A little sceptical about how it came about, but I love the fact that Amara was #Redeemed. Guess we called that one…
-Sam and Dean actually felt /present/.
-That creepy asylum with all the swinging doors… mmm.
-It’d be pretty funny if Amara and God popped in from time to time to help the boys with a case, right?
-Loved that the first thing Dean did was reach for the beer.
-What a cliffhanger. Eek.
Feeling pretty good about this one, folks. It wasn’t perfect, but I suppose it’s Dabb’s first time working on a finale. Feeling pretty good about the prospect of a hopefully higher-power-less season twelve. Maybe we will get that reset after all.
//I love the fact that Amara was #Redeemed. Guess we called that one…//
Yep! There were so many clues that she was coming to appreciate what her brother had created, from Niagara Falls and volcanoes to bopping down the street a la Mary Tyler Moore to the Mary Poppins moment with the old lady feeding the pigeons. Amara, we have been rooting for you since you laid Dean gently down in that patch of wildflowers… Enjoy your happy siblings moment. Do what sisters do, annoy the crap out of your brother til he remembers why he locked you up. Then maybe he’ll have to bring back Michael to help him lock you up again! #freeMichael
I was also thinking how funny it would be if Sam and Dean had known the “magic word” along. Just do big ol’ ghost round-ups, easy-peasy, just say the magic word!
Sheila, you’re buried in Alain Delon? I am sure you are much envied.
Yeah, we’re currently running guns from Marseilles. Stay tuned.
Kewl! See if you can get a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.
Sadly, I missed the auction in 2014.
That Colt 1873 mentioned for auction looks familiar.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Single_Action_Army
Too much!
Could Alain be a French MOL?
It’s the Colt!! Alain Delon would be a hunter, not a men of letters. He is a criminal – literally – with gangster gunrunning friends – with somewhat (by that I mean totally) fascist political views – as well as being a famous gorgeous actor. Who else could LIVE at that speed??
I love the last line of Madonna’s song “Beautiful Killer”:
You’re a beautiful killer, but you’ll never be Alain Delon
One thing I appreciated: that beautiful double “Legs Moment”, when the brothers are leaving the asylum. They’re walking side-by-side, practically in sync. http://tinyurl.com/zy3k55f
Definitely!
THAT #RedeemsPrettyMuchEverything
I thought it was okay. I wasn’t expecting gold given last week’s episode .
– I liked the way Dean talked about his funeral and the little smile when Cas hugged him.
– That whole scene in the cemetery which began [for me] when Sam kissed his mother’s headstone and ended when Sam said “Done” to Dean’s funeral request, got to me.
– Interesting enough, TNT broadcast the season finale for Season 5 that day or the day before. Coincidence, I think not. This finale was almost serene compared to Season 5. No blood, sweat or tears which is so different from prior finales.
– But as someone said in the twitterverse, why were Crowley and Cas there? What was their purpose? To represent heaven and hell?
Carolyn, I also loved Sam kissing mom’s headstone and Dean’s funeral plans. My favorite lines by far were, “You love chick flicks.” “Yeah I do. Come ‘ere.”
Carolyn – // This finale was almost serene compared to Season 5. No blood, sweat or tears which is so different from prior finales. //
I know, right? It was bizarre – but I liked it because it seemed to be all of a piece with the very different vibe of the season. I’m still disappointed in some of the things they didn’t address – the things they missed – but I appreciated the risky nature of what they attempted here – and I was glad that they (somewhat) course-corrected after the penultimate debacle.
I loved the cemetery scene.
I was mostly glad when it came to an end. I have hopes that Cas has been sent back to heaven, with the angels who have closed the door behind them.
Gods, Demons, Angels and Death should be completely Other. “To a thing like me, a thing like you, well…”
I did like Billie’s comment about reaping God. Which made me miss Death. Oh Death!
I just hated having God and Crowley and Cas and Billie/Death all in the same room. Cas is the size of the Chrysler Building. And the rest should dwarf him. I hated Superfriends when I was a kid in the ’70’s and I don’t want that in SPN.
Mom back from Amara-knows-where, snotty female British WOLs (does anyone think “The Master” was really the kid she kissed before she left?), that’s the right size. I don’t think she said “pip pip, cheerio” did she?
And Helena, at least the accent wasn’t Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins bad.
Do you think Mom was in heaven and she’ll need to adjust to the nasty old world like Buffy? I’m sure it will be something different, but there are lots of fun ways to go there.
I liked the scenes carolyn mentioned. And Dean getting a beer (pleasure-seeker to the end).
//Gods, Demons, Angels and Death should be completely Other… I just hated having God and Crowley and Cas and Billie/Death all in the same room. Cas is the size of the Chrysler Building. And the rest should dwarf him. I hated Superfriends when I was a kid in the ’70’s and I don’t want that in SPN.//
I think the bar scene – angel, demon, witch, God having a drink together lent to the end of the world vibe they were going for (because honestly they’re like, “Look the sun is broken.” And I’m like, “What? I don’t see it…”) But I do agree that the idea of the bunker as Hall of Justice is wrong. I mean the place is supposed to be completely warded against demons and witches and other evil monster types. At the very least it should be painful to cross the threshold or something. I didn’t like the Superfriends either. Ahhh, the good old days when comic books and super heroes were for kids, Saturday morning cartoon and fruit loops feast.
/ angel, demon, witch, God having a drink together lent to the end of the world vibe they were going for/
I think you’re right. I’m just grumpy. A flame-thrower would really cheer me up.
//does anyone think “The Master” was really the kid she kissed before she left?//
Yes. That sweet, innocent, little boy as “the master” was a provocative (and slightly Whovian) little nugget to chew on over the hiatus…
Gotta admit, not my favorite finale. I did tear up at the brothers visiting Mom’s headstone and Sam putting a kiss on it. I also loved the chick-fluck moment between the brothers.
I’m also right there with Pat on the beauty of the “legs moment”.
Other than that I will be thrilled to never see another angel, especially Case, again. I’m done with the Heaven & Hell crap. Back to hunting like it used to be. I’m also curious to see where they go with the European MoL storyline and Mary’s return.
Damn, now I have to rewatch all 11 seasons to feed my addiction!
I love that we all clock “legs moments.” That was definitely an excellent one.
I, too, am done with Heaven and Hell crap. It has nothing to do with anything anymore. This whole season has been one great MOTW after another – back to basics – with a lot of depth because the guys are older now.
I would love to see more of that coming up.
//I’m weirdly ok with the bad guys next season just being other Men of Letters. Just a human storyline without angels and demons.//
//Feeling pretty good about the prospect of a hopefully higher-power-less season twelve.//
I agree with the general consensus on this one, although, I think/hope that Lucifer (Pellegrino pee-your-pants Lucifer) is in hiding, biding his time for the ensuing power vacuum upstairs (Higher Power not Ikea Heaven). Then maybe they’d have to #freeMichael to take him down… wait… ummm… rethink.
UGH.
Tell us how you REALLY feel, Lyrie…
After re-watching and reading some other reviews/recaps, I have changed my opinion of the finale. I went into it wanting to see various things (Amara explode, Chuck stepping up and taking charge, the brothers fighting together) and it colored my feelings on what played out on screen. Hearing some meta on the the family aspects and how the God siblings were a reflection of Sam & Dean’s growth this season, I’m now okay with the finale.
I had the same epiphany after seeing Swan Song. I HATED Swan Song on first viewing. I found it silly and goofy and boring. Later, I came to appreciate it. I recall feeling WTF during the Stull Cemetary showdown, but after my 180 turn, I would break down crying when Dean whispered to Sam “I’m here, I’m here”.
I find this fascinating how we all react differently to key episodes. Others have mentioned the same thing to me about Swan Song, how they hated it the first time, while I was mesmerized by it. It seems like this show has so many angles, facets to look at, and lights up our brains with possibilities of what we would like to see thst you have more disparity in reactions than other shows. Maybe I’m wrong, but pretty sure you don’t get that passionate response or retroactive contemplation from episodes of the Big Bang Theory or Criminals Minds.
I have had that reaction to entire seasons. When I first watched season 7, I wasn’t overly impressed (and I still think the Leviathans were the weakest Big Bads), but in retrospect, almost everything else that was going on in season 7 was brilliant. Bobby’s death was devastating. Frank Devereaux was possibly my favorite short-term recurring character, and he is the reason Adventures in Babysitting is in my top 5. And Sam’s hallucinations – I think that may have been the most sensitive and realistic portrayal of how scary psychosis is for the person experiencing it and how vulnerable people with severe mental illnesses are that I have seen on any TV show ever. On ER, a supposedly realistic medical show? A schizophrenic character goes on a killing spree, perpetuating the myth that the mentally ill are violent and dangerous. On Supernatural, a fantasy show? Not so much.
// but in retrospect, almost everything else that was going on in season 7 was brilliant. //
Natalie – I had the same exact experience with Season 7! My first watch I was like, “The Leviathans are stupid, I’m not scared, this is dumb.”
Earlier this year I re-watched the whole season – as well as Season 8 – and really turned around on it – for many of the reasons you mentioned. Frank Devereux!! The best! Plus Charlie. Sam’s hallucinations almost caused me PTSD of my own insomnia – brilliantly done and wonderfully acted by both those guys. Like “soulless Sam” it was an arc that was really allowed to play out – follow it out – take its time – and it was upsetting and felt as endless to me as it did to Sam – by the end of it I was desperate for someone to save him.
// I think that may have been the most sensitive and realistic portrayal of how scary psychosis is for the person experiencing it and how vulnerable people with severe mental illnesses are //
Totally agree.
It was kind of nice to change my mind on Season 7. First impressions are not always reliable – I have to rely on first impressions for my film critic work, and I stand by them – with one caveat: “This is how I felt at the time.” I have changed my mind on SO many movies I either loved or hated on first viewing. It’s not that I can’t make up my mind – it’s that sometimes you miss stuff, or sometimes you’re not in the mood for a certain kind of story, or your expectations are different, and etc.
Season 7 is a perfect example of that. The Leviathans are not my favorite and I don’t find them scary but there were some great great stuff in Season 7.
Fascinating, Pat – it’s one of my favorite topics: how first impressions can change. Or at least morph. I’m always interested when that happens to me – it’s hard, because I review things for a (sort of) living – and I HAVE to go with my first impression because I have deadlines.
Sometimes you get swept away in an emotion and you overlook flaws – and then you go back and re-watch something and all you see are the flaws. Or vice versa.
I love to hear about your own changing perceptions and reactions.
I liked the Leviathans as a different kind of monster. They weren’t scary like ‘the Ring’ or ‘Poltergeist’, but they were kinda ‘Body Snatchers’ scary. Without getting political Dick Roman always made me think of Donald Trump. Now that’s a scary thought… Also the corporate/government monsters gave us the perfect opportunity for characters like Frank & Charlie!
Dick Roman was so awesome. That actor, man! He was much scarier than any black goo, face-made-out-of-teeth monster. Although I kind of loved how horrible is the idea of forcing them to eat themselves. How disturbing!
I too, loved season 7 much more on re-watch.
Thought this was interesting to share. On another website, JA reported that Jeremy Carver had left the show before the end of the series. It appears that there was no real showrunner for the last 3 or maybe 4 episodes which may explain why the quality of the episodes seem to droop after “Shurley”. The phrase used was “show runner transition”. Also mentioned that the actors were aware that key elements were sort of lost in the interim: JP’s lack of fear of Lucifer, key conversations between characters that were inferred but never seen and they simply ran out of time. For some reason, this makes me feel a little better. At least they seem to be aware that they sort of ran of the rails at the end.
You know, I guessed that, or sensed that – even before I heard about Robbie Thompson. You can almost feel a gear shift and you could tell that no one was in charge. Details were lost, specific nuances lost … and yeah, We Happy Few definitely felt to me like they ran out of time. One more pass on it and they might have fixed a lot of those problems – easy fixes – a couple close-ups here and there, tormented close-ups, and we would have a very different episode.
I think my initial reaction was just a bewildered “huh -” But the more I think about it, and after a rewatch, I appreciate where they went with this. I do think that the final scene with God and Amara taking their leave was a bit schmaltzy, which is uncharacteristic for this show but it was #redeemed by the lovely yin-yang column of light and dark smoke. Likewise, I wasn’t thrilled with the cliffhangers, but, honestly, they have opened up an intriguing number of possibilities with the Mol and Mary.
Perhaps this might have played better as a series finale instead of a season closer? The fact that I knew Dean wasn’t going to blow himself up before s.12 dissipated some of the tension, but in the end the storyline was wrapped up in a satisfying way for the god twins, and for the Winchesters’ character development.
I still don’t have my head around this one. I think my main frustration comes from finding many of the scenes well-realised or at least featuring a solid idea, but still feeling like they shouldn’t have been there at all. Crowley and Rowena fared about the best here that they have in a long time, but still serve as a deadweight on the rhythms and focus of the show. I enjoyed the little ghost hunt, but did they really think that that baker’s dozen of ghosts would help?
The cemetery scene for me was saved only by Sam’s tears, which were just heartbreaking, and I was peeved that his grief wasn’t given more weight going forward. The dialogue on his and Cas’s final entry into the bunker, clunking from offscreen down the stairs, ought to be excised from the universe. Get a camera on them, let that do the work.
Lady Penelope Philomena Potts’s immaculately researched Winchester/Campbell family tree featuring a total of six names was pretty hilarious.
That car interlude with Dean and Cas made no sense to me (except for the obvious extra-textual reasons). Lucifer made no difference to the final fight, so what was Dean going on about it being the right call? Your “best buddy aka bro” bust Lucifer, with all the history and shit that Lucifer entails, out of the cage Sam died to put him in, and you’re thanking him? That was awful. And an even more heinous crime: in being shot like that I felt it diluted the iconography of Baby. Don’t bust your tricks out just because you have them. Save it for when it means something.
I won’t say anything about Dean’s karaoke version of The Power of Love during the big climax. We all know he’s not a good singer and I don’t want to poke fun.
Two pretty solid cliffhangers and an interesting setup for next season. So it goes!
// I was peeved that his grief wasn’t given more weight going forward. //
I know. They’re missing these emotional nuances – in the last 3 or 4 episodes – and definitely with Sam for a while – and it’s pissing me off. Short-changing the character. He killed in that cemetery scene.
// The dialogue on his and Cas’s final entry into the bunker, clunking from offscreen down the stairs, ought to be excised from the universe. Get a camera on them, let that do the work. //
Bless you for this observation. I hadn’t really clocked what was wrong with that, but you nailed it. There have been some extremely lazy technical choices (the blocking during the Chuck-Amara showdown with everyone just standing around) – and maybe the backstage shifting of the guards had something to do with it, I don’t know … but you are so right that we need to see their FACES. This has always been a show about FACES. Kim Manners is rolling around in his grave (on the X-Files, apparently.)
// immaculately researched Winchester/Campbell family tree featuring a total of six names was pretty hilarious. //
hahahaha
The car scene was definitely a big ol’ nothing – and to me, even the actors seemed tired, although that may be a projection. I agree that – like Billie – Lucifer, and his possibilities, were not really explored – once Mark Pellegrino left the scene it seems to me – and so Dean thanking him made no sense. The whole scene was a yawn. I’m not asking this to be rude, but did Destiel people get off on it? Or have Destiel fans abandoned the show out of disgust at this point? once again, the scene felt like a bone thrown to the fan-base as opposed to an organic moment that came out of the context – it was lazy. Dean should have been pissed off – more “what were you THINKING?” – that would have made more sense.
But yeah, very interesting set-up, I think and I am relieved beyond measure that the cliffhanger was not “There is something even WORSE than Amara out there and even GOD doesn’t know about it, and WHOOPS HERE IT COMES.” Because enough already.
I’ll be happy if it’s just Sam and Dean on the road again – there was so much of that in Season 11 and I just gloried in it!!
I’m far from an authority and I’m sure opinions differ but from what I’ve seen Destiel folks are pretty pleased by/excited by the car scene — as like a recommitment to the relationship (platonic/etc) by characters/show and an acknowledgement of Castiel’s contribution (colour me mystified on this last one). They very much liked the “you’re our brother” line — really it’s kind of interesting in an observationally interesting way how much the claims to Dean’s romantic/erotic interest in Castiel rest on correspondences to Dean’s relationship with Sam — not even being coy about shipwars here because that way lies madness, I really do think it’s an interesting thing about the fabric of the show and how people watch it and what they repress in order to get what they want out of it.
what I mean to say is, my exact comment to Helena during that scene:
“you’re our brother cas I want you to know that”
cas: soooooo…you do wanna bang me?
I mean it’s a weird show.
Fascinating. Thanks for filling me in – I’ve been curious about it.
// how much the claims to Dean’s romantic/erotic interest in Castiel rest on correspondences to Dean’s relationship with Sam //
Hmmm. I hadn’t thought of that. Do you mean the “brother” aspect of it? Or …
// I really do think it’s an interesting thing about the fabric of the show and how people watch it and what they repress in order to get what they want out of it. //
Oh hell yes. Having come into it via a ship-war that reached my ears – and coming into it through the context of the Destiel people – and then being like, “I am not seeing this at all” – not to be judgmental, I just flat out didn’t see it – it was an example of the rich-ness of the show – and it’s generosity (maybe not the right word) in accommodating all of these different fantasies.
It’s not that I don’t see the erotic potential in Dean’s relationship to Cas. (Not at all now, but in Season 4 – Season 5 started bugging me with the cute-ness of it – but Season 4 for sure) – what I see is Dean’s openness to sex with basically … everybody. I mean, I had seen it from the get-go. That erotic muse thing. And Castiel seemed no different, but with that added aspect of feeling saved/chosen/special – that Castiel had cared enough to save him. Castiel was evidence to Dean that he had value – and he hadn’t ever felt that before.
But anyway: thanks … interesting thoughts.
Do you mean the “brother” aspect of it?
Yes absolutely, Dean’s brother is the most important thing in the world to him, therefore Cas; similar line of logic from the cemetery scene when he entrusts Cas with Sam.
Like you say it’s amazing the richness, or maybe like, fecundity, of the show and the variety of ways people respond to Dean in particular.
Interesting – yeah, I can really see that, the parallels and echoes there. It’s a bit tired-out now – especially since Cas has been so sidelined for 3 years now. But if the Destiel fans are happy … then that’s why it was there, obviously.
oh I got distracted, I also meant to say that I was really glad as well that it didn’t end in a fistfight. “I need him, he needs me” was WAAAAY too much for me and the whole thing was very abrupt and the ball was dropped in a major way on Dean-Amara. But I was pretty glad that it was like Wonder Twins Dissipate! and that was the resolution, and there was no ominous escalation, and I’m looking forward to 12!
Wonder Twins Dissipate.
hahaha!!
Why on earth would they drop such an intriguing ball as Dean-Amara? I wish he had succumbed. How fascinating would that have been. Weird.
I need to re-watch Season 11 now – episode to episode – which will be a lot of fun – but as of now, in my memory, Chuck’s re-entry was what derailed it.
When Dean went to dangle himself in front of her as bait, and to buy time for the rest of them … that seems to have been a missed opportunity.
But yes: an interesting ending, with enough of a “what the hell will happen now” to carry us into Season 12.
En Avant!
Wonder Twins Dissipate *gigglesnort*
“you do wanna bang me”
hahahaha
Dean would be open to banging anyone. I still hold out hopes that he’ll bang Dee Wallace in Season 12, although I know it won’t happen. But you know he thought about it.
//“you do wanna bang me”//
And I’m afraid my response to Jessie was ‘just get it over and done with ffs’
“Lie back and think of England, Jessie!”
Cas’ shy half-smile annoyed me. I’m so over it, you guys. It’s a problem!
so bizarre that the Dean-Amara thing petered out, I agree. I’m looking forward to hearing how 11 goes in replay!
Dean’s already put a downpayment on the suite next to Dee’s room, I’m sure!
//Dean would be open to banging anyone.//
No joke, I had a dream last night that Dean and Gabriel had sex. I have really never shipped anyone on this show at all ever, so I’m not sure where that came from. But Dean/Gabriel makes more sense to me than Dean/Cas does.
//That car interlude with Dean and Cas made no sense to me… so what was Dean going on about it being the right call? Your “best buddy aka bro” bust Lucifer, with all the history and shit that Lucifer entails, out of the cage Sam died to put him in, and you’re thanking him?//
I was half joking earlier, but on rewatch I seriously believe this is all a set up for Lucifer hiding inside of Cass. It’s just the great big bag o’ dicks move that Lucifer would make to stay out of the cage biding his time. As much as we would all like to see an end to the heaven & hell crap, I suppose I could make an exception if it involves Pellegrino/Lucifer fucking the world.
If the car scene is truly just what’s on the surface (plus some destiel subtext) then it really is just a load of stupid crap.
Okay, there are two different threads about the end of the season, so I’m probably missing stuff. I love reading all your thoughts.
I did love that the resolution was peaceful – and it was coherent with Dean being unable to hurt Amara. I really appreciate that they did something different, and bold, somehow. I really dislike how it was done – I didn’t have any end-of-the-world feeling, really – but I think I could have been OK with that. The light was kind of strange, sure. That’s it? Supernatural has been able to convince us with very little before (you hear wings flapping, Dean looks surprised: BOOM, you got an angel. I just love that trick.), but this time it didn’t work for me at all, and it’s probably because of all the other problems – shitty blocking, useless dialogs and characters, etc.
I’m still trying to wrap my head around that end of season, but since I don’t think I can re-watch it, I might miss things. Mostly, I am so, so disappointed by God. I think God should have stayed away, and other, and untouchable, really. During the episode, I was so pissed to see Chuck almost carried by Sam. It should have been SOMETHING, you know? Instead it was “Oh yeah, God is dying, I don’t even have a Nietzsche joke, pass me the whisky.” What? REALLY?
And to me it spoils the rest of the show, in a way. I think of Dean praying, begging “please” in the rain, looking at the sky in season 5, how heartbreaking that was, and now I know: don’t bother, man, if his sister kicks him in the nuts, he’s fucking useless. Ugh.
God – Sam – Dean – 11 years – all their lives… I could not agree more even if we had a Lyranie mindmeld…
Ha ha, Melanie, your mind is so ready to melt!
Do you think it makes any difference, if the last 4 episodes are looked at as an arc in themselves? Just asking, I’m curious.
I wonder, too, if this season ender suffers from maybe too much planning? I remember reading an interview with Carver from, maybe, season 8, in which the interviewer asked him about Chuck. He literally said, “I can’t talk about Chuck.” I feel like this final confrontation/reconciliation may have been his showrunner endgame all along. What that means for the story structure, I don’t know. But I am actually impressed that the show has now managed to more or less wrap up its multi-season story arcs not once but twice in its run. If nothing else, they’ve cleared the board for whatever comes next.
//an intriguing ball as Dean-Amara//
Speaking of Amara, swirly smoke, oddly alluring, bound to Dean by the mark Amara, I watched AHBL2 and can’t help drawing comparisons to the scene of Dean dealing with the crossroads demon. Besides the fact she and Amara were obviously dressed from the same wardrobe rack they share very similar (ahem) attributes such as their lovely cheekbones. There is also the same do I eat you or seduce you (or both) vibe from the ladies and Dean’s responses are similar not knowing how to respond – kill it or screw it.
In my mind the one scene will now always invoke the other.
Season 11 was a good one for me. I liked the Baby episode. Actually Iliked several episodes. I don’t ship anyone on the show. I love the leads Sam and Dean, and I look at the other characters as needed conflict and added humor to Sam and Dean’s journey. I like the characters Cas, Crowely, and Lucifer. I like many characters that are gone as well, Charlie, Bobby, Benny, Gabriel, and others. In Supernaturals world anything is possible, even bringing some of those characters back.
The episodes where Dean opened up a little to Sam were great. They grew closer and seemed to understand each other better. Sam got his reassurance that Dean loved him and would never leave him. The brother hug and tear scenes always get me.
As for Cas allowing Lucifer to enter his body; hasn’t Sam and Dean done the same thing and made deals with the wrong people? Cas only allowed it because he believed Lucifer could kill Amara His last words to Lucifer were “are you sure you can kill Amara?” Lucifer said yes and Cas said “then Yes”.
Chuck being God, I found to be funny and touching. The scenes with Metatron were excellent. The song that Chuck sang was beautiful. He showed his soft side and his not so nice side to Metatron. He said he had sex with women and a few men. Rob Benedict played the part well. Curtis Armsrong (Metatron) finally got what humanity was about and fought for humanity to God. He held off Amara while Sam escaped with Cass/Lucifer.
I would have liked to see Sam, who always believed in God, to interact more with Chuck. People seemed upset that Dean told God that he lies to Sam all the time. If they couldn’t see that Dean was joking…they missed the boat. He was trying to get Daddy and Son to speak to each other. Didn’t anyone see the “Dean Look” and shrug his shoulders at Sam?
Sam was saving Lucifer so that Lucifer could help God defeat Amara. I have heard it said that it was cruel to make Sam help Lucifer after what Lucifer had done to him. Again the point is Sam as making the best choice he could in the circumstances he was in. He is willing to make choices others wouldn’t like giving his life to save others. Dean is the same way. Sam also hoped that Cas could be restored. Sam loves Cas too, they became closer as they tried to save Demon Dean. He knows how close Cas and Dean are. Sam is not jealous of Dean and Cas’ relationship.
I thought God, Crowley, Rowena, Lucifer, Sam, and Dean together to fight Amara was funny. Each totally different than the other working together for the same purpose. Rowena flirting with God cracked me up. The point being sometimes you have to take the bad with the good to get something accomplished, at least in their world.
Cas went into the cage to save Sam and Dean. He did what he thought was the best choice out of bad ones. Cas allowed Lucifer to enter his body; hasn’t Sam and Dean done the same thing and made deals with the wrong people? Cas only allowed it because he believed Lucifer could kill Amara. His last words to Lucifer were “are you sure you can kill Amara?” Lucifer said yes and Cas said”then Yes”. It saved Sam and Dean. It also gave some funny moments with Crowley and Lucifer. Lucifer treating Crowely like a dog and making him lick the floor. I think Misha Collins acted the part of Lucifer very well. It is hard to take on a role that someone else was perfect in. He got the nuances of Mark Pelligino’s Lucifer down pretty well.
I understand why Dean called Cas his brother. Dean knows how many times he has made wrong decisions and Sam has too. In similar situations as Cas was in at the time. //Dean tricking Sam to let Gadreel enter his body. He knew Sam wouldn’t like it, but he did it to save Sam.// Both willing to die fo the other…it is their way.
Cas has always tried to be there for the boys, even giving up being in Heaven to save Dean. Yeah, Cas screws up sometimes like the levithan fiasco, again he thought he was making a good decision and had no idea what the outcome would be. Dean understood why Cas made the decision he did. It was to save him and Sam as well as the world. I think Dean is more understanding about such things because he has watched Sam be tormented and he himself has been tormented.
NOW: Dean has no idea that Sam might be dead, which would be first on his mind had Mary not shown up. It makes me wonder if in Season 12 Dean will have an internal struggle with his emotions about losing his mom and now she is back. Plus his very close relationship with Sam, which has grown stronger in the last few seasons. He may also have some deep seated anger toward her because of the deal she made with OYE, which started the whole road they have traveled thus far. Will there be conflict between Sam and Dean?
Sam always wanted to know his mom, but Dean and his Dad never wanted to talk about it. There is bound to be some storyline with Sam and his Mom. Surely she will not stay long (I hope).
Who is the women MOL? Whos is the Master? I cannot wait for season 12. Many interesting story lines that can be explored. Many Surprises I am sure!
Lisa – thank you so much for your take! I love hearing what other people got.
I think many people enjoyed Season 11 – for me, it’s been the strongest season in a long lONG time. Superb, really – with so many good individual cases as well as a truly intriguing over-all arc with Amara. Yes, it all derailed in the last 3 episodes which is a huge disappointment – but the journey of the whole season was incredibly compelling and different from anything they’d tried before (so it makes sense that they might not have been able to figure out how to finish it all up in a satisfactory was).
And while your explanations make sense and I can see the reasoning behind all of the choices they make – they’re clear to me as I watch too – much of it doesn’t work for me, regardless. It’s not that things don’t make SENSE. It’s that they don’t WORK for me.
Not sure why Cas is “the best friend we’ve ever had” considering the various betrayals plus his uselessness over the last 3 seasons. Charlie seems a better candidate, frankly – and Dean’s “you’re our brother, you do a lot for us” speech in the final episode rang hollow. A bone thrown to the Cas fans. Which, fine. Cas is not my bag, but I get that people watch the show for different reasons!
I just re-watched the final 3 episodes just to see if they were as bad as I remembered, and they were. Much of the promise of the rest of the season just didn’t go anywhere – particularly the Dean/Amara connection – and the cluttering of the screen with the Big Three who serve no real purpose anymore (Cas, Crowley and Rowena). They kill Charlie and they keep those three around who don’t DO anything anymore?
Ah well, I am not in charge. You and I disagree on the effectiveness of all of this, and that’s of course totally cool. One of the interesting things about Supernatural is how everyone’s “way in” is SO DIFFERENT – and yet it still seems to provide something for everyone. I have no idea how they manage that – but they have a great rhythm with it. I can roll my eyes at the Castiel scenes – but he doesn’t take up so much space that I get bored with the series altogether. He’s there because of the Castiel fans, and I totally accept the reality of that.
I MISS Crowley being bad – and not ineffective and sarcastic. And funny! I miss the comic relief of Crowley! If he’s GOING to be on the show, then please at least let him be hilarious!!
Still, overall: a SUPER strong season with a couple episodes rivaling my favorites from the entire series. Not resting on their laurels, not phoning it in – still upping their game – It was a joy to watch. Thrilling, really.