Yes, it’s over now, but no time like the present. It’s even more ridiculous that I’ve never seen it because my cousin was ON it, dominating a huge plot-line in Season 4. But what can I say. I have so many family members in Show Biz, I can’t see EVERYthing. Nevertheless, I finally caught up with it. Binge-watched it like a madwoman during the terrible month of January. Probably within the first 10 minutes of the pilot, not much longer, I realized, “Oh. Okay. This is what the fuss was all about.” It was immediately apparent. And since my OTHER show is currently rating a D average, I needed something to fill that void. I just completed it yesterday. I am in love with it. I found the whole thing – the DIALOGUE, the CHARACTERS, the complexity – pleasurable to an almost incapacitating degree. Hence, the gif of Tim above. (One of my favorite characters. Dolly Parton! Fantasy graphic novels! Sigourney Weaver’s thighs! What??) And boy, that ending … that final scene … Don’t have time to write more than that but wanted to put up an open thread for discussion. A couple of you I know have just started watching it. A couple of you were fans during its airing. So we’re all at different stages of it.
Not sure how to handle spoilers in the comments. Let’s just say … if you’re going to discuss a plot point, shout SPOILERS in all caps beforehand and so those of you still catching up know to skip that part.
Why is it so good?
Why do you love it?
Favorite character?
Favorite/least favorite season?
And etc.
Have at it.
Thank you for this, Sheila! Where do I send the fruitbasket?
Why do I love it – can I just mention Wynn Duffy’s eyebrows and Dickie Bennett’s hair here?
Also dialogue like this:
From Season 1:
Raylan: Dear Lord, before we eat this meal, we ask forgiveness for our sins, especially Boyd, who blew up a black church with a rocket launcher, and afterwards, he shot his associate, Jared Hale, in the back of the head out on Tates Creek Bridge.
Let the image of Jared’s brain matter on that windshield not dampen our appetites, but may the knowledge of Boyd’s past sins help guide these men. May this food provide them with all the nourishment they need.
But if it does not, may they find comfort in knowing that the United States marshals service is offering $50,000 to any individual providing information that’ll put Boyd back in prison.
Cash or check. We can make it out to them or … to Jesus … whoever they want.
In Your name, we pray.
Amen.
Season 2:
Tim: Relinquishing a firearm can be a very emotional moment, and there always must be another deputy in attendance. Add in some premium alcohol, what could possibly go wrong?
And from Season 3:
Boyd: Uh, what can we do for you, Raylan? We have 17 different kinds of bourbon behind the bar. We’ll even give you the first one on the house.
Raylan: How many kinds of water?
Boyd: Give him some tap.
that speech right there is why I love Raylan Givens so much. Eloquence, wiseassery, improvisation, humour. Taking off his hat….to Jesus….
what a performance.
So legs.
Justified, aka, Legs and Sass
Great actor. This is a HARD job. The character would be deadly (in a bad way) in less intelligent savvy hands.
and yes: Legs. Mucho legs all around.
OK, just found the thread. I have only seen the first three episodes so far, so I really want to avoid spoilers. But I also really want to discuss with you all! But also avoid spoilers.
I’m soooo behind everyone else, is there still something left unsaid? Probably not.
The most important cannot have been said too much, though: #LEGS
Always here to discuss Legsified and cross my heart I will avoid spoilers
Such amazing dialogue. Too many favorite lines to count.
How … HOW … can I love Winn Duffy? But dammit I DO. His tanning booth, Helena. His banana hammock. I can’t stand it.
and SPOILER COMING:
In the final episode, when Raylan pulls out Friends of Eddie Coyle and tosses it to Tim – “If I said 10 that would be too low” – I almost burst into tears. I honestly gasped. That we have never seen him reading it in all of the 6 seasons, that he has never mentioned it (that I can remember) – but suddenly that book, that THAT would be his favorite book, makes almost everything click into place in some bizarre and beautiful way – still messy, still incomplete – but beautiful in the way that what we read, and what we love, tells people everything they need to know about us – or at LEAST tells us a lot – I remember this feeling of, “Holy shit, of COURSE. Of COURSE he has that book in his desk drawer.”
Oh, and there’s that line from Raylan ‘There’s no frigate like a book.’
Emily Dickinson, people.
I think I need to read The Friends of Eddie Coyle.
It’s one of my favorite Robert Mitchum performances – in the movie anyway – he’s a very Raylan type in that. You can see why Raylan would devour it. Looking for God knows what – it’s some pretty bleak shit!!
I think I wrote a small post about the movie. well worth seeing. Also, a movie that really GETS Boston.
I have tried to watch it, and loved Mitchum’s beautiful beaten up old face in it, but stopped when breaking fingers was mentioned – I think at that point the air of impending disaster got too much.
The film gets a shout out in the Season 4 finale, iirc.
I totally get why it would appeal. I guess there are a lot of Eddie Coyles in Harlan, Arlo Givens being one of them.
Yeah, all the literary references are amazing. I love Boyd just casually spouting Thomas Jefferson, because of course he would.
and Dewey Crowe. Oh Dewey Crowe!! He is such a brilliant actor.
Herriman can make a simple line like ‘You think I’m stupid … but I’m not’ sound pathetic, hurt, needy, funny (that tiny pause in the middle) and rather worrying, all at once.
And goddammit, lines like ‘Are you telling me a man can’t buy a mask in America no more?’
What is this world coming to when a man can’t buy a mask when he wants to.
‘You want I should call the police right now and save you the trouble?’
Dewey Crowe is constantly walking into shops and meeting kindly storekeeps trying to warn him away from disaster. You should listen to them, Dewey! (I think my favourite line, period, of the whole six seasons is the one about a guy matching Crowe’s description knocking over a fluff ‘n’ fold.)
Shopkeeper: “God bless you, son.”
As stretcher rolls by, Dewey’s submissive voice, “Thank you.”
Can’t TAKE IT.
It is I, RAYLAN GIVENS, who is stealing this, yes US DEPUTY MARSHAL RAYLAN GIVENS who is taking this from you now, with my white hat on, thank you, I am RAYLAN.
He makes holing up in a rat-trap motel on the side of a nothing road look attractive. And like something you would want to do.
Jeez, that motel room. Two people shot dead, two people with serious gun shot wounds. Come back of an evening to tape on the floor and bloodstains on the bedspread. At least the toilet is sanitised for one’s protection.
and 18-wheelers roaring by outside.
Super cozy.
You pay extra for that.
It’s very difficult to picture him living in a nice house. This is (sort of) along the lines with my regular comments on J Renner in Hurt Locker and J Wayne in The Searchers in re Dean Winchester although saying that name now brings up unpleasant associations, I am so sad to say.
A man who crosses so far over the line that never again can he step over that domestic threshold. and he knows it.
He gives it a go, though, because why the hell not, he loves the lady.
//It’s very difficult to picture him living in a nice house. //
There’s a deleted scene on my Season 3 DVD of Winona and Raylan making dinner together in Winona’s house and suffice it to say it does not go well.
Not surprising at all.
Great scene in Hurt Locker of Renner interacting with his baby son at home. He’s loving. But he can’t stay. He’s got to go back to war. The house – any interior at all – is just not right for him.
He’s good lookin’ *and* funny!
Killer combo.
I’m most of the way through season 2. If there’s an upside to the Seahawks croaking against the Falcons, it’s that my Sundays are now open for binge. Got to get my finals graded before I can have another marathon.
I’m completely bought into Boyd’s arc – what will happen with him? WTF was Winona thinking with those sticky fingers? Or with being undecided between Raylan and Gary? And Dewey Crowe’s not-stupidity. Mags Bennet and a ball-peen hammer (I love you, momma!).
As for favorite characters – Boyd is mine at this point. His eloquence, and his mixture of self-knowledge with compulsion and self-deceit is completely captivating.
And apropos our other show, doesn’t Dean turn 38 on Tuesday?
Raylan is sexy but he’s one of those nightmare boyfriends who would torment you with withholding, passivity, weirdness. I get the draw to Gary. Although we rarely see Gary in any light other than pathetic and terrified. I love how Raylan compulsively apologizes to Winona, even when she doesn’t ask for it. He always feels like he’s in trouble with her. hahahaha Poor guy.
Goggins’ control of that flowery language is awe-inspiring.
There’s a moment in Season 4 when he spouts something off to my cousin Mike – and Mike says, “I’m gonna need Google Translate on my phone to get through this conversation.”
and in re: Dean. I don’t keep track of fictional character’s birthdays. And I feel so BURNT I don’t even want to THINK about Dean anymore. A sad state of affairs.
I typed “Dewey Crowe” into Google to check out something about the actor and the first suggestion to come up was “Dewey Crowe kidneys.” It wasn’t what I was looking for, but I’ll go with that for the moment.
Does it mention all four of them?
THAT could actually be my favorite line.
hahaha That was the first suggestion – hilarious!
I love how happy Dewey gets with his two whores.
and because I’m a sap I felt hurt for him when one of them threw that wooden turtle away.
The whole thing is so ridiculous. This is a man with HEIL HITLER tattooed on his neck and I’m aching for him because a prostitute threw away the gift he gave her.
This is why the show is brilliant!
One of my favorite series! Right up there with Deadwood and Ray Donovan. Best ending of a show series EVER!! I still have the last episode on the DVR to watch and re-watch. One of those we will buy and binge watch over and over.
Lisa – Oh man that last episode. The “coda”. It tied up some loose ends with our three main people – but it also left a vast space for subtext and suggestion.
And the two final lines!!! BAH. Integrity. Integrity in execution and conception.
The table scene in the season 3 (I think) Gunfighter episode.
Nix plays a game with his victims. He places a gun in the middle of the table, counts down from 10 and……..
Great series. Glad you’ve found it.
Hank – Oh yes, that was a great scene!!
“You run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. You run into assholes all day long? YOU’RE the asshole.” I quote that in some real-life situation at least once a month.
Yeah, it’s amazing how often it turns out to be apropos…
Such a great line!
I love Art.
So grateful for this open thread! More latah
Art is awesome.
I just re-watched the pilot – and you know how sometimes pilots show that the series is searching for its sea-legs? This one feels confident and sure of itself – maybe not AS confident as The Sopranos pilot, which I think is a work of genius – but still: You’re immediately immersed, the characters are fully drawn, you’re IN.
Season 5 is not my favorite. I admit to being pretty bored with it. But other than that glitch – stellar.
That feeling when you start humming “You’ll Never Leave Harlan Alice” because it’s just a plain good banger. And suddenly you’re watching random Justified snippets on YouTube.
My tolerance for violence went way, way down the last few awful years. Before ‘16, I was like, shrug. Not these days. So I haven’t been in the mood to binge watch the series. I’ve been watching WW2 documentaries and- right now- the Alec Guinness version of Tinker Tailor- because clearly those aren’t dark at all…..
But anyway. Even if I don’t feel up to characters being, um, unhanded from their weapons. I still periodically watch the pilot episode. Because it’s just such a frickin brilliant piece of art. And I love everyone I meet in it.*
shoutout for Natalie Zea, who I remember on the soap Passions, but won my heart in original recipe Dirty Sexy Money, before they messed with it in season 2 and ruined the offbeat tone that made it stand out in the first place.
Spoilers ahead
So, in answer to the question re favourite characters – lead actors and Dewey Crowe aside, it’s hard to single out favourite characters, as there are so many wonderful secondary characters and cameos. But here’s a possible list.
Mags Bennett is an obvious stand out, earthy, maternal, shrewd, controlling from one sentence to the next.
I’d like to give props to Linda Gehringer for Aunt Helen. I love her scrappiness and lack of sentimentality, and I love the way the sheer enormousness of what she’s done for Raylan is gradually revealed. Can’t not mention Raymond Barry as Arlo – the way he stares and sets his jaw, the quavering voice that he can still fill with menace. Barry conjures up the charming bruiser Arlo once was even as he deteriorates visibly in front of your eyes. I kind of really, really hate the guy, and maybe I can’t give him higher praise than that.
There’s that human ball of soggy newspaper, Wade Messer. James LeGros is so hilariously bumbling (conscientiously dialling ‘9-1-1’ in cuffs for Raylan minutes after he’s foiled trying to shoot him through the screendoor) it’s almost sad to think of how he ends.
Jeremy Davies deserves all the praise he gets for his truly extraordinary Dickie Bennett, but Brad William Henke does great and detailed work as Coover Bennett too. The scene where he’s alone with Loretta smoking her doctored spliff is horribly menacing, yet you can feel all of his hurt and rage at being the unloved one in toxic Bennett family belljar.
Garrett Dillahunt’s character in S6 isn’t exactly a favourite (Choo Choo is the one who breaks your heart) but it’s the usual brilliant performance – at first almost inhumanly menacing then unbearably broken and lonely.
And finally, Loretta Mcready – again, a beautifully realised character you see almost grow up on screen, with a wonderfully down to earth energy despite such curlicued and elaborate diction (‘Marshal… I strike you in any way as a Van Halen fan?’) so good in every scene with Olyphant, her final apotheosis as Harlan’s new empress of weed is a thing of beauty.
// I love the way the sheer enormousness of what she’s done for Raylan is gradually revealed. //
I love that about the treatment of Aunt Helen too. I felt a real sense of loss when she bit the dust.
Young Loretta is incredible. I love the scene when she shows up at the party at the pizza joint and throws down the gauntlet to Sam Elliott. It reminded me of the scene when Boyd Crowder showed up at the Sheriff’s election and swayed everybody with a rousing speech filled with local pride. I love how the show did not sell out the character of Loretta. She remained true to who she was. The lack of sentimentality is so refreshing.
James Le Gros!! Oh man.
The show is so good at showing people doing horrible things and yet somehow you still have sympathy for them. Not with someone like Mags – or with Sam Elliott – there’s bumbling people who do bad things – and then there’s Evil. It’s so not a black-and-white show.
Jeremy Davies is amazing – it took me a while to even realize that that was him. He looks SO hillbilly. And the laughter – his compulsive laughing way of talking – his way of dealing with the sense of rage and injury … it’s almost unbearable to listen to him at times.
and I just have to give a shout-out to the writing – there are a couple of scenes near the end between Winona and Raylan – when she comes back to town, baby on her hip – that are PERFECT writing samples. The kind of thing an actor looks at and goes, “Well. I don’t really need to DO much here but say the lines because it’s all there.”
Oh, and Ellie May breaks my heart.
I also am partial to Cassie, the snake-handling preacher’s sister.
and of course, Jim Beaver!!
I’m super slow. I did not pick up on the fact that he was the one everyone was looking for.
So that Arc was extremely pleasing to me. The show “stung” me. I was totally fooled. I’m sure when I watch it again I’ll see all the clues along the way, but I didn’t pick up on them at the time.
This show…I was lucky enough to have one friend who was as avid a fan as I was, so we were able to dissect the episodes each week after viewing. It really frustrated me that more people didn’t seem to be watching this show.
I always find it difficult to articulate the things I love the most-but I think for me, with this show, it hit such a sweet spot. Funny and tense, great characters-all across the board. Like classic movies that are raised to the genius level by the character actors that surround the main characters.
This is a show where I felt like every line was gold. I was totally in from the first episode. I loved Harlan and the small town vibe. The “I knew your momma, and I KNOW your daddy…” kind of thing. The whole “we dug coal together” and the brotherhood that represents, was very compelling to me.
I love westerns, and John Ford is a favorite director of mine. Justified reminded me of his westerns, with a flawed hero, and the absolutely engaging supporting cast.
Like others said, I’m so glad you watched this! By the way, have you watched the series Friday Night Lights? Another series that I felt never got the public viewing it deserved, but with fans that are rabid (in a good way, and I count myself right with them) in their love of the show.
// Like classic movies that are raised to the genius level by the character actors that surround the main characters. //
Maureen – that’s a really good point.
The vast army of character actors that fill the screen in Justified is part of why it works so well. Everyone has their role to fill. And kudos to the casting directors who found all of these people. There are some people who seem so local that it’s hard to believe they’re actors flying in from LA.
My sister Siobhan was a huge Friday Night Lights fan – and that’s definitely on my list of shows I need to check out. I love everyone involved!
I also love how Justified wears its Western movie influences on its sleeve.
Even the characters are aware of it. They talk about Gary Cooper. They talk about High Noon. They know the history they represent. They know they are not in any way original.
It’s quite an interesting dynamic – self-aware and ironic. I think that’s one of the show’s real strengths. Imagine what it would be without the sense of irony?
Not very good, I’m thinking.
I love Justified so much. It gets Elmore Leonard right without seeming like it’s trying to exactly copy his style. Walton Goggins. Just amazing. There’s so much to like in every season. The Raylan/Art relationship, Wynn Duffy, Patton Oswalt, Myketli Williamson’s ridiculous teeth, the always steady Rachel, Mags!, Jim Beaver. And can I say enough about Boyd Crowder? One of the great characters of recent years, and Raylan is nearly as good. Such a fun, snappy show.
// It gets Elmore Leonard right without seeming like it’s trying to exactly copy his style. //
I so agree. I read Leonard’s books and they seem so simple and yet my overriding feeling is: “HOW does he pull this off?” In particular, his dialogue. World-class. But you read it and you’re not even aware most of the time that it’s writing. You can hear the characters speaking.
and of course – Patton Oswalt! Constable Bob!! I was so damn glad he made it through. I love that character. Ordering Ava: “Get into my Chevy Vic!”
I also just have to say that the Arc for Ava Crowder is incredible – look at how many transformations she goes through. But the character remains intact. Joelle Carter is amazing. And she’s a Southerner, so she doesn’t approach the character with condescension – the way you see so many actresses do when they play barefoot country girls. In Carter’s hands, it looks real. The character is flawed, and weak. But so so human. She has her strengths too. And I completely believed the love story between Boyd and Ava – as long as it lasted, anyway.
It was such a nice contrast to the spiky thing going on between Raylan and Winona. Boyd and Ava are the flowery romantic types. It works, somehow. I totally bought it.
Season 3 finale, (spoiler) when Bobby Quarles wants his arm back and Raylan makes, him,reach,for,it….awwwww too bad. I was laughing so hard I missed the rest of the scene.
Oh my God, yes!! Awful! And hilarious!
Quarles. What an unforgettable character!
Okay so I know this isn’t all about me – but whatever it kind of is all about me.
I just remembered another person I know connected with the show – the gorgeous redhead Rebecca Creskoff who played the Mining representative who hires Boyd Crowder as security. Who kisses Raylan before going in to talk to Mags. She played the lead female character in my script in our workshop in LA. She’s an amazing actress – she had a small role in the first season of Mad Men too, and through her contributions and hard work (and she wasn’t paid for the workshop – and it was a week of rehearsal time!! – she did it because she loved the script and she was eager to work on something that had depth, not just a guest spot on TV) she REALLY helped me whip my script into shape. Super smart actress in terms of script analysis.
And then there’s Robert Baker – who played the guy obsessed with cock-fights, in his sad little 2-episode Arc – he played the lead male role in my script in the FILM version.
Cousin Mike goes without saying.
All three of these people played KEY roles in helping my script make it to whatever next level it needed to get to.
So yeah. All about me.
and looks like Neal McDonough is going to be on Survivor’s Remorse this season, at least according to the pictures on the show’s FB page.
Justified villains, reunited!
Why is it so good?
The writing, the writing, the writing. If you have ever read the book that Justified is based on, someone must have been reading Elmore Leonard’s mind, especially in the first three seasons.
The casting. Similar to our other show, which I still consider on hiatus until they get their shit together, they picked the perfect actors for the roles. Besides the fact that everyone can act, they all look the part and were fully committed to their roles, even in they were only in one or two episodes.
Why do you love it?
Besides the writing and the acting, the visuals. There are some scenes where you need no dialogue, just watch the hands and the eyes. The setting – they make you believe that it’s western Kentucky.
Favorite character? The Bennett clan from season 2 and I love Margo Martindale. I fell in love with her in Nobody’s Fool, Practical Magic ( “ladies, let’s clean house!) and Secretariat.
Favorite/least favorite season? Season 1 and 2 were my favorite seasons. Season 4 and Season 5 my least favorites because someone forgot to focus on Raylan and the “big bad” was so normal. He was just mean, he had no poetry in him. As someone once said, in order to have a great hero, you have to have a great villain and the big bad from season five was simply bad.
I am so glad you found this show. It is right up your alley imho.
Carolyn – cosign on all of this! I am so glad I finally got with the program and binge-watched it during this wretched END-LESS month. My normal escape hatch – “our show” – which, as you say, is still on hiatus – or an imposter is running around wearing its logo – is no longer there, and I’ve felt that void.
Justified was completely engrossing on all of the levels I YEARN to have any given entertainment tap into – emotional, intellectual, aesthetic, ethical – plus crushy-crush sex feelings. It had it all. Plus HUMOR.
ALSO: I’ve only watched the whole thing once. I inhaled it.
so y’all are way ahead of me. In the last two days I watched the pilot and the 2nd episode again – and it was so fun because now I came to it with all the knowledge of where we were going, and who these people would end up being – and it was so strong from the get-go – the characters established, the tone. Everyone is so relaxed and three-dimensional! Even early on!
So far, I’m “getting’ much more out of these early episodes the second time around.
Now that you into it, please try to watch Season 2 at least twice. First to focus on the Bennetts – not just Ma, but all of the sons. They each have their role within the family from the responsible older brother to the spoiled younger brother and the totally screwed up middle brother and they play it to the hilt. Ma Bennett love for the young girl and the actress who played the young girl is phenomenal.
Second, for the Boyd/Ava and Rayland/Winona stories.
I won’t ruin it for you but that entire season, every single episode, bears watching at least twice, particularly “The Spoil” which was written by Elmore Leonard and “Bloody Harlan”.
Carolyn – I am really looking forward to a re-watch!
I was so skeeved out with how Mags appeared to be “grooming’ Loretta – pimping her out practically, doing her hair. Did she see in her her own lost youth? Or was she trying to stave off Loretta discovering what had been done to her dad? It felt like Mags was fattening a pig for a big feast or something.
The Bennett brothers – yes! I need to watch more carefully – and now that I’ve seen it once, I’ll be able to see a lot more of that complexity. I was so gob-smacked by Dickie (Jeremy Davies! It took me a while to even recognize him!!) – and he’s so attention-getting, that sometimes I got a little bit lost in it. Which of course was the POINT for Dickie, since he’s so “what about me??” about everything.
But it will be interesting to watch for the power dynamics within that family again, now that I know who everyone is.
// just watch the hands and the eyes. //
Such a great observation, so true!
That’s good and confident direction – especially in such a “wordy” show where everyone talks a lot. But it’s not like an Aaron Sorkin onslaught of words – there’s room for pauses, and LOOKS that speak volumes.
Everyone is so connected.
Margo Martindale is an amazing actress. She can be heartbreakingly warm – she can be really funny – but I’ve never seen THIS from her before. The way she says, “It was already in the jar …”
Almost like she’s sorry. But also with that look in her eyes that says, “Not sorry. Not sorry at all.”
BRILLIANT.
// someone forgot to focus on Raylan //
very much agree with that in re: Season 5. and I like Michael Rapaport but he is not Southern. He didn’t manage to get the accent down – and he just FEELS Northeast dumb Thug to me. That part was his fault – but I think he was just mis-cast – and yeah, the whole Crowe family melodrama just wasn’t all that interesting.
Especially when you compare it to the Quarles season. Now THERE’S a big bad!
I LOVE Mags! Bizarrely, we binged all of ‘The Americans’ with the amazing Margot Martindale as their KGB handler and all to date of ‘Santa Clarita Diet’ with the almost unrecognizable Timothy Oliphant. When we first started watching Justified (husband, 21 yo daughter, and I) we actually argued about where we had seen that actor before and whether he was the same one of maybe his brother! HA! Now we occasionally see a face on Waylon and randomly yell out, “nervous neighbor!”
As for Mags I firmly believe the killing of Loretta’s father was motivated as much by her desire to ‘acquire’ the daughter she deeply coveted, as by the need to punish him. In fact the punishment was in fact the opportunity she’d been waiting for to move in on Loretta! I believe she did truly care for the girl, but her ability to do that in any wholesome way was lost to her long ago owing to the hard possibly/probably abusive life she’d lead up to that time.
We just watched “Bloody Harlan”, season 2 finale last night. Mags briefly spoke about her husband, Guthrie?, saying, somewhat regretfully, that she’d had dreams of living a simple family life before he died and she had reluctantly stepped into her role as the family crime boss. I can see that she might have been capable of poisoning him, but I believe she would not have as long as there was a chance of her having a daughter. I think that desire was so strong in her that she would have put up with a lot from her husband and sons for that possibility. It also explains so much of her disappointment in her sons particularly with Coover not being a girl. She may even have taunted him with that throughout his childhood bringing him to the point of murdering Loretta.
Loretta is another hugely favorite character aside from Raylon and Doyle. That little actress is acting circles around half the adults in the show. I would love to know what she’s been doing since. I don’t have the discipline to obey spoiler warnings so I am excited to watch where her character is going in Harlan!
At first I did not like the character of Ava. She seemed a little too much like ‘Kentucky Trailer House Barbie’. Her arc with Raylon seemed like she was trying to escape who she was by hitching onto ‘the lawman’, but it did not become her. When she began to realize who she was and made the choice to stay rather than run, she began to climb to the top of my favorite character ladder. The season 2 build up to ‘Avoyle’ was delicious! We were shipping them hard. I love that she makes her choices and stands firm with them: shooting her husband, staying in her home, allowing Doyle to live there, embracing criminal life with Doyle. Where she ends up in life is totally down to her choices, even getting shot, and I love that about her! I am glad she didn’t die.
Doyle to Raylon: “I am sleeping with my dead brother’s widow and cold blooded murderess, so if you’re looking for someone to throw stones, I ‘spect you picked the wrong sinner.” I love all the interactions between Raylon and Doyle. They are both the perfect foils for the other.
What a great show! I should have known ‘you lot’ would be appreciating it, what with the legs and all!
I guess I understand why my autocorrect would change Raylon to Waylon…sort of, but Boyd to Doyle, 5 times!? I do know the characters’ names, wow!
And of course it’s ‘Avoyd’ which is so much funnier than ‘Avoyle’ because of its homonym, avoid. I was taking a lot of cold medicine when I wrote this. Can I really blame autocorrect? Yeah, I can and I do – every time!
Autocorrect: Threat or Menace?
I thought Mags genuinely loved Loretta. She knew her sons were worthless. She made them and she loved them, but Loretta was the child she wanted. I thought Mags hadn’t set out to be a bad person, and that Loretta brought back to her the dreams she had had in the beginning before it all went south. None of which excuses Madge–but then, she offered no excuses for herself.
I may not be remembering it right – but it seems like even Mags was surprised at the depth of tenderness she felt for Loretta?
I’d love to know the choices Martindale made about Mags. This assumes that the stuff I learned in acting class at Brown (besides the fact that I can’t act and the fact that writers, whether they can act or not, do come up with good lines in improv) is true, about choices and all. I was thinking about Mags and her marriage and wondering about that. I’m guessing that whoever her husband was (no mention of him, right?), he was the original criminal but she, making lemonade out of lemons, turned out to be a genuine mastermind. I’m thinking she gave him some apple pie when the kids were too young to know about it. I’m probably dead wrong about everything.
Jincy – I was so curious about the character too! You know that if you asked MM questions, she would be able to answer every damn one. When did she stop going to school? What was her favorite subject, if she had one? What was she good at? and yes – what was her husband like!!
I love your imagining that she gave him some apple pie too. Now that you mention it it makes total sense. The whole ritual of that moment felt like it was definitely not the first time she had done this!
She was genuinely frightening at times – there’s that first scene with Loretta at the store, before you know what Mags is – and she’s so warm and concerned. MM often plays parts like that. And then – BOOM, the curtain is whipped back.
Exhilarating acting.
Okay, okay, I’m on the bandwagon. Watched the first episode last night. So much fun!
So, if I read one of the books, would some of them have spoilers about the show or not? If so, about a specific season? Or should I wait to have seen the whole show? Or can I pick any one of them?
I’ve not read the books, but From what I understand it’s in no way a straight adaptation other than the short story ‘Fire in the Hole’ and possibly few other stories at the start of Season 1. Beyond that it takes bits here and there from other books/stories featuring Raylan Givens but mainly mixes up scattered characters and plot elements, the main plot arcs and many characters being entirely the show writers’ creation. Added to the mix the fact that Leonard wrote ‘Raylan’ after the series started – he was pleased enough with the show’s adaptation of his work and character that he used characters the show had created rather than him, and told the producers to use it whatever they wanted. So, tl;dr reading the books/short stories wouldn’t necessarily spoil the show.
Thanks a lot, Helena! I would have googled it, but I’m afraid of spoilers. I’ll wait until I’ve finished season 1, and then start reading.
I am so intrigued by Boyd. Where is this character going? What?
Also, all the women are amazing! All the characters and actors are great, but the actresses strike me as particularly good. Kristen Bauer as Shirley in the second episode, for example – so often those characters are played as just dumb. Even Ava could have been such a cliché with a lesser actress. They’re so great!
It’s so great that Leonard could recognize his character enough in the show to write Raylan after it – it really speaks to the quality of the show. I’m even more excited about reading the books, now!
I just came across this post and watched Justified recently for the first time. I’ve loved reading the conversation here. Wish I had watched the show sooner!
I have to say, my favorite seasons are Season 2 and Season 6. About as close to perfect as you can get. But I have such a soft spot for Season 1, particularly the pilot. It’s a masterclass in writing, world building, and acting. What a treat!
My favorite characters besides Raylan and Boyd are easily Winona (Natalie Zea is not only drop dead gorgeous but a terrific actress), Wynn Duffy (Jere Burns FTW), Loretta, and the entire Bennett clan in Season 2.
But I have such love for the Raylan and Winona relationship in particular. I didn’t know what to expect and I was so pleasantly surprised with it. I love how we meet them years after they divorce, Winona has seemingly moved on, Raylan is clearly pining for his ex-wife. And then they get back together, and we see why it may not have worked out in the first place and yet they are the epitome of right person, wrong time. You really believe these are two people who are genuinely in love but just can’t live together. And they keep trying but failing. Whereas Boyd and Ava keep convincing themselves they are in love but are not actually able to really truly get there (Boyd would never put Ava above himself and Ava is a classic example of someone who gloms on to a man to save her). I love how Winona and Raylan know each other so well, they can read each other down, but they both just can’t quit each other. And despite all their ups and downs, they are the most important people to each other. It’s a love story but it’s also a very realistic, complicated love story and not one that TV often chooses to portray. I really liked it.