“With the guns and tuberculosis.”
I can’t stop laughing.
“I’m Val Kilmer.”
Long deadly pause.
“Okay.”
I’m in love with the episode and I’m so happy that I’m in love after a year of losing my love.
A rockabilly undertaker?? I’m in love with that choice. She had goals and dreams. When she turned around to look at Sam, I felt my heart sink at the pancake makeup. She was adorable but it was like she stepped out of a slicker show. Desperate Housewives or something. But then 2 scenes later, you learn she wants to be a makeup/special effects artist! So the makeup came from a very specific place, HER place. It’s part of her identity. She had a life going on OUTSIDE her function in the plot. This is so important. I found myself thinking, “Please don’t let her die.” This is the result of good storytelling and acting. I was invested in her within 20 seconds of her arrival.
A tough old geezer Sergeant with a ponytail?
Where did they find these wonderful actors? It’s been a while. I’m so burnt out by the BMOL from last season and the broad characterizations of villains and Zzzzzz.
Also, it was great to see people who weren’t white in these meaty one-off characters. Good intuitive casting. Especially since this episode was Western-inspired. Yeah, well, the West, the frontier, was filled with people of all races, not just white cowboys. See what happens when you don’t have preconceived notions, or when you don’t just assume white is the default? You get a much richer experience. I’ve said it before – once on a panel at Ebertfest about diversity – that a lot of this can start with casting directors. Low on the totem pole, but extremely important in helping to change paradigms in terms of who they recommend for which part. Granted, powers-that-be have to sign off on it, but still: casting directors are the vanguard. Keep the conception of the character loose enough that anyone could play it (if they’re a good actor, that is). I just watched “Rock and a Hard Place” last night and that episode is a PERFECT example of unimaginative casting. Two of the chastity girls looked almost exactly alike. Everyone was white. The girl who was abducted in the teaser was indistinguishable as a type from all the girls topside. I could barely tell anyone apart. An example of just not putting enough thought into what they were doing. If they were trying to make a POINT that all of the chastity girls started looking/dressing the same, that would be one thing – but in my opinion it was just lazy generic casting. Anyway, I don’t mean to go on and on, but this was a very diverse cast and everyone was great and it’s the future of the business, so get ahead of it, dammit.
It’s good to see some ECCENTRICS again in these secondary one-off characters. YES. No more generic central casting. This is such a WEIRD show and it should be populated with weirdos.
Some nice interweaving of family issues: The Sergeant with the killed Deputy. The revenge. Dean understands that. The looping in of Jack … as someone they all – as parents – need to protect. Jack has Three Daddies. The callbacks to earlier seasons: what Dean will do to avenge his family, what Sam will do to prove himself, what they are willing to forgive in each other as long as the intentions are good. These are very sketchy ethical waters and it’s the air that Supernatural has breathed from the jump.
Dean’s burlesque. All OVER the place with the burlesque. Bolo tie burlesque. Cowboy boots burlesque. Hint of Texas accent burlesque. Coffee burlesque. Clumsy-falling burlesque. SLEEPING burlesque too which y’all know is my favorite.
Jack and Castiel are a very emotional pairing and I am liking it.
MORAL issues again coming up about killing people. The show was LOST last season in its adoration of SWAT team shootouts.
The SLO-MO IN THE COWBOY HATS.
I really ENJOYED that episode. It was so much fun to watch.
I am such a fan of this director although she directed some clunky shit last season, but I forgive her, because EVERYBODY directed clunky shit last season.
She’s a damn good director.
Thoughts?
I don’t know whose running the show this year, but I love them. I don’t care if this is the last season because I am loving the fact that the powers that be have rediscovered the heart of the show.
The writers are giving them words to that tell the story and tell us about them. We care about the brothers, yes, the yin and the yang of them, but we also care about the very weird world that they live in. Even the sets have been cool. Death’s den of death. Loved it.
And I so agree about the casting. Being a black female of a certain age, I relished the interracial nature of the shape shifters episode, dysfunctional and destructive as it was and that fact that she felt powerless. I loved the sheriff who accepted Jack in all his weirdness and believed that the Winchesters kill monsters.
I’m even enjoying the pace of the show. Last year with very few exceptions, most episodes either dragged (dare i say were actually boring?) or seemed rushed with crucial plot twists occurring off camera or with no explanation. This season, so far, the timing and pacing are so much better.
Okay, I’ve said enough. Let someone else speak.
I think the difference really is that the story feels more personal this year. The showrunner (Andrew Dabb), producers, and writers are all the same batch as we had last year. It was a “young” staff last year, I think, since it was Dabb’s first year actually at the helm, though he’s been on staff since at least season 4, and at least 3 writers came on board for season 12–Meredith Glynn (who wrote Regarding Dean and this year’s Big Empty), Steve Yockey (who did Twigs and Twine, etc and last week’s Advanced Thanatology) and Davey Perez (who did Stuck in the Middle with You last year–this ep is his first for this year).
Sorry about the showing off–but I’ve been wondering what the real difference is between this year and last, too– :-)
See, I don’t remember any of the episodes of last season. Just moments that horrified me.
so I appreciate your knowledge. I don’t know if I can bear to re-watch! I did buy the box set because I’m a SUCKER!! :)
I do remember “Regarding Dean” – and remember liking it, although I felt that they had lost so much momentum that the episode didn’t have the “oomph” it should.
all I can really say is that I sense so strongly that everybody on the writing staff went back and watched earlier episodes. were inspired by earlier episodes.
What’s happening now doesn’t feel like a pale imitation or mimicry of the tone of early episodes – which is what happened in S12 – but stepping back into the continuum of character development that was interrupted last season.
Someone realized they needed to keep the “institutional memory” of the show intact.
// The writers are giving them words to that tell the story and tell us about them. We care about the brothers, yes, the yin and the yang of them, but we also care about the very weird world that they live in. Even the sets have been cool. Death’s den of death. Loved it. //
Carolyn, I agree with all of this. I am so curious about the behind-the-scenes aspect of all of this – how they got back on track after the debacle that was last season. Because none of this is accidental, I don’t think. It’s too drastic a change. More thought, more care, into every aspect.
// I relished the interracial nature of the shape shifters episode, dysfunctional and destructive as it was and that fact that she felt powerless. I loved the sheriff who accepted Jack in all his weirdness and believed that the Winchesters kill monsters. //
Yes! We’ve been given some nice 3-dimensional peripheral characters – they feel like human beings as opposed to cardboard cutouts. This is driven in part I think by the writing – these peripheral characters have been very well-written and well conceived – so the casting can be more specific. You can’t get just ANYBODY to play that police sergeant. You have to get the right guy.
I’m a little frightened about going back into the alt-universe with Mary and Lucifer – I’m a little frightened by what seems to be the “bigger” arc theyre going for – this was where they got lost last season. Clearly, I still have trust issues. :)
But I agree with your overall points. They seem to love these characters again and actually care about how they are presented. They aren’t skating on the knowledge that WE all out here love them – THEY have to love them too.
Dean in that cowboy hat and suit in slo mo. Lawd have mercy on my soul.
I need to rewatch this right away for all the reasons you said above, Sheila. It came together so well. The scene in the morgue when we first meet Althina and we see her working and Sam and Jack enter behind. Her obliviousness to them and her attention to the work while we see Sam’s lips moving and the music comes on was so fresh. Rarely have I been so invested in a one-off character so quickly. And the romance was between a ghoul and a mortician? How apropos. It was goofy and doomed and I sort of loved it.
The concern for human life again and the way they lingered on the emotions around the security guard’s death (similar to that intimate moment with the Mom last week) restores my faith in the core of the show.
*Athena not Althina, either way she was awesome
// Rarely have I been so invested in a one-off character so quickly. And the romance was between a ghoul and a mortician? How apropos. It was goofy and doomed and I sort of loved it. //
I totally agree.
This is the second emotionally/physically abusive relationship we’ve had this season. They’re taking care to set up these characters so that we out here have a “way in.” Same with the grief counselor.
There’s all kinds of stuff about family too – I keep trying to find the connections, and there’s all kinds of stuff with Jack, Dean, Sam, and Castiel – that brings “family” to a whole new weird level. They need to get another woman though into this cast. Mary isn’t enough for me – although Jodie and Sheriff Donna will always return periodically. and Kelly wasnt enough for me last season. The show needs a Charlie – an Eileen – an Ellen, a Jo – I understand the show has always been ambivalent about womens’ presences in it. That’s actually part of why it worked – that tension – when they have actually DEALT with it, I mean. Like Dean’s resistance to Ellen and Jo at first – like their relationship with Charlie and how they tried to ward her off hunting – what was so great about Eileen (I’m so mad, still, about the handling of her) is that she entered the show on her own turf, with her own competence and experience, her own trauma – she was on totally equal footing with the brothers and there was no question about it. Anyway, I’m fine with things as they are now. It would have been interesting if Jack had been a girl. However, SPN being what it is, that might have added a layer they didn’t want to deal with? Like, Dean and Sam couldn’t “relate” to a girl in the way they will “relate” to Jack and see themselves in Jack.
anyhoo, just some thoughts.
I TOTALLY agree that the concern for human life is a huge factor in the show – it’s one of the reasons the damn show exists. Why else would Sam and Dean devote their lives to being hunters? Because they care about human life. It matters to them. It KILLS them when they can’t save someone. Both of them have made crazy risky choices to save human beings.
Dwelling on the mother’s grief – the gasp I felt in all of them when the security guard went down … this is the heart of the show, grappling with loss and grief and helplessness.
I also liked Castiel’s speech to Jack. It’s “comforting,” right? But at the same time it is an insanely reckless justification of … kind of sociopathic behavior. If you listen to it from an outsider’s point of view – I mean, this is the way Stalin talked. Making an omelette you need to break a few eggs. And in the Winchester Belljar (TM), of course they don’t question these things. We’ve all done bad things.
Yes, yes, yes, but Jack is right to be tormented. Jack is right to grieve. To feel bad about himself. What he did cannot be easily justified away.
This is the moral/ethical queasiness – that comes OUT of the regard for human life – and yet at the same time knows that innocent people will die and you have to ACCEPT that – anyway, this queasiness has been so much a part of the texture of the show – that it’s really really good to see it back in play.
Almost drowned in all the Dean behaviour. Running off to get his boots! That one shot where they’re sitting around chit-chattin and JA makes sure to cross his legs and get those freaking things in frame! hah. And I really liked that moment with Dean in his costumed fantasy glory running up hard against the solidity, reality and grief of the Sergeant. Not that he was chastened — his glee about being mistaken for a Texas Ranger! — but I just loved him having to be serious underneath that hat.
I have such a low threshold these days when it comes to Sam. I just can’t handle it when his only role is to stand around and look worried and offer half-sentences of emotional support. “You’re smiling again” or whatever was admittedly lovely but once again I’m worried that a major event for him (Dean jumping into death) is gonna be a non-event. Early days and there was a lot to balance this episode but when I feel like Sam’s getting sidelined I tend to go a bit nuts and I apologise in arrears and advance for being one-track about it ha ha.
Checking into the motel with their Western/FBI costumes in plastic. From the dry-cleaner’s? A rental place? Who are these absurd people.
//but I just loved him having to be serious underneath that hat.//
That Hat looked like it was going to flap away off his head all by itself.
Ten-gallon hat on a two-gallon head.
I love how he bought the hat AT the hotel.
and holding their “outfits” in plastic garment bags??
We have never ever seen that before. Like: how do they pack their FBI suits? In their duffel bags? Then they would definitely need to be ironed upon arrival in whatever fleabag they hole up in.
Dean being excited about the closet?
Oh simple pleasure Dean.
// Running off to get his boots! //
hahaha and if I recall correctly his voice came from off-screen and you could see Sam being embarrassed for his brother’s enthusiasm. Good stuff.
// Dean in his costumed fantasy glory running up hard against the solidity, reality and grief of the Sergeant. //
So good. and he got that in one reaction shot. That’s all he needs.
// Early days and there was a lot to balance this episode but when I feel like Sam’s getting sidelined I tend to go a bit nuts and I apologise in arrears and advance for being one-track about it ha ha. //
I think it’s a danger of the show and its dynamic. as we’ve seen its happened before – most drastically last season. Dean is so dynamic and such a scene-stealer, but when it REALLY works is when they both have some serious shit going on and they clash – OR they work together in total professional competence (like in French Mistake – one of the best examples I can think of where they practically shared one brain throughout – so exhilarating).
Being one-track I think is good about this – b/c without a strong Sam the show doesn’t exist.
A question rather than a comment. Do you think this episode was possibly a mini backdoor pilot trying to find a way for Dean to carry on Supernatural or something like it without Sam? I don’t know many of the technical terms of filmmaking but it seemed more about showcasing Jensen as a sort of dramedy Western hero than moving the season’s story lines forward. It is not a bad idea for carrying on even if it is derivative af. Besides Supernatural, there were elements of iZombie and Wynonna Earp plus indigenous diversity.
Still I think I would rather see something a little more original something that showcases Jared’s good-natured personality for a change.
I do think you’re picking up on an actual imbalance in the episode in terms of framing, narrative weight, emotion, interest, but I doubt in the extreme that there would be any one-brother continuation. Even if there was desire/interest by TPTB, I cannot conceive of JA and JP going for it. They seem pretty dedicated to finishing the show together :-)
Yes – I agree with Jessie.
What seems to be happening … is Sam is now involved with Jack to such a degree that there’s a disconnect with Dean – and that’s even more apparent now that Dean is “on board” with the Jack thing.
They’ll have to be very careful with this moving forward.
I must admit I was smiling when they started playing Space Cowboy during a scene. One of my favorite Steve Miller Band songs and albums. Beautiful fit.
Aren’t both JA and JP originally from Texas? I thought I remembered that from somewhere. Some actual grins and giggles with this episode. Moose has been caretaking for Squirrel for a while now. Caught a break here.
According to their bios, JP is from San Antonio and JA is from Richardson. They both live in Austin.
The Space Cowboy sequence was perfect. and it wasn’t regular slo-mo. It was real slow slo-mo – so that Dean buttoning his suit jacket became a whole balletic moment. Like, let’s really let everybody DWELL on this spectacle.
Totally agree about Athena and the Sergeant…they were awesome and I was invested in both of them. The mother in last week’s episode was phenomenal too. I love the guest actors they have been getting so far. Dean in the suit, cowboy hat, and boots….oh my, yes please, and can I have some more?
Dean and his coffe was a joy to my soul. That is how I am with coffee. Coffee is my love and so I got that scene. I was all there.
Liked the moments with Cas and Jack. They were very quiet and heartfelt and I enjoyed them. Seeing Jack getting his confidence, seeing him so eager to please, and then to have it all come crashing down…. heartbreaking and inevitable. The after scenes were so well played by all of them. Cas, Sam, and Dean were all being sincere in sharing their own experiences, but Jack cut right to the heart of it when he didn’t accept what he thought were platitudes and asked those questions….how is this right? How is covering this up ok?
Cas and his trench coat and cowboy hat cracked me up. That and his “I am Val Kilmer” line.
I’m going to rewatch tonight with my husband. I’m want to watch again and focus on Sam. He seemed a little reserved and stilted last night….especially in the first part of the episode. Even when he was telling Dean “It’s good to see you smile again” He sounded anything but happy. I don’t know….just seemed odd on first impression but I’ll watch again and see what I think second time around
the coffee business! I am literally doing the coffee business right now.
I am doing the coffee business right now too.
Michelle –
// Jack cut right to the heart of it when he didn’t accept what he thought were platitudes and asked those questions….how is this right? How is covering this up ok? //
Yes, this was very very strong. Like I said up above – the platitudes, if you think about them for more than a second, are the same platitudes used to justify horrors in war, in politics, in any world conflict. Jack doesn’t have the sophistication (or experience) to go that route. He feels bad. He is right to feel bad. This makes me think that his presence on the show is (or could be) GOLD -because it highlights just how jaded these guys are – or, not jaded – but worn down, battered.
I am also this way with coffee. I cannot function without it – don’t even talk to me before I’ve had a cup.
Since we’ve been discussing Sam here – and the imbalance of the episode –
JP’s expression when Dean was talking about how he was feeling good – was eloquent as hell. He did not look relieved like, “Oh thank God I have my happy brother back.” Because ugh, that would have been awful. He looked really disturbed. which is funny in a way – a reminder of just how bleak these guys’ lives are – and also Sam’s long history with Dean’s mood cycles.
I should have read your comment first Michelle! Would be interested to know what you thought about those Sam moments the second time around.
I think Sam is trying to process the whole “Cas is back”, and is worried about what that really means. You’re right, Michelle–he really isn’t happy!
I also found it interesting that Jack seems to be directing his anger (angst?) at Sam, specifically–his outbursts of “Stop!” or “How is this good?” were in response Sam trying to comfort him. Is that because Sam was the first to sympathize with him? Because of Sam’s own “freak” past? (I can’t remember if Jack knows about this?–but he did overhear that argument where Sam confronted Dean about it.)
I really enjoyed this episode, too, for everything mentioned above. The direction and lighting were really great, too–I’m thinking of the neon cross that seems to float above Dean’s shoulder when they meet up with Cas, while Sam is bathed in gold from the beer sign behind them. And Cas’ face in half-light during his quiet conversation with Jack. And then in the Impala, going home, how the headlights behind the car seemed to halo his head, while Jack in the back seat was either in shadow, or swept over by red or orange light.
some of the night scenes this season have been consistently gorgeous — this ongoing woozy red/orange/pink glow, it’s so romantic and such an interesting new way to see them. TJWright used it for a moment in Lily Sunder last year and it blew my socks off, and its turbo-charged return in episode two (also TJW now I think about it) made me deliriously happy! Oh, I hope they keep pushing and exploring it! It’s a different kind of beauty to the early and middle seasons — that’s fine — but it still requires darkness, weight, mystery. It creates involvement.
Also — church right across the street from a bar, ha ha! That’s the way to do it.
// church right across the street from a bar, ha ha! That’s the way to do it.//
Sounds like the town I grew up in, Jessie!
I’ve always liked Wright’s direction.
Also, I’ve always liked the show’s intermittent use of neon. Neon is so lonely-looking. So urban noir.
// It’s a different kind of beauty to the early and middle seasons — that’s fine — but it still requires darkness, weight, mystery. It creates involvement. //
It does create involvement – that’s a beautiful way to put it. It’s one of the reasons I got involved in the show in the first place. I fell into those pitch-black shadows, with the guys’ faces emerging (never all the way) from those shadows.
They definitely have re-discovered or re-committed or SOMEthing to the atmosphere, the darkness, the nighttime element of their lives.
Which is why the brightly-lit grief counselor episode (sorry, I don’t do titles) stood out – in an episode about grief and loss you have almost no shadows and the guys standing in broad daylight? Ooooookay.
But in general – there have been a couple of shots I’ve fallen in love with this season – and it’s been a while. The opening of this last episode – with the cross and the bar (so funny – it reminds me of Ireland) was one of those moments.
So perfect. Castiel’s cross and the brother’s very human bar: together but separate.
Which is why the brightly-lit grief counselor episode (sorry, I don’t do titles) stood out – in an episode about grief and loss you have almost no shadows and the guys standing in broad daylight?
ha ha I do wish they would gloomify and desaturate sunlight scenes again. They pop too much, it doesn’t feel right — tbh it often looks kinda cheap — and it bugs me every single time even though it’s been going on for years (let things go, you say? never!). But the interiors in that episode — bright, white, sterile, exposed — that worked for me thematically as well in contrast to the Empty.
yes, it does look cheap. I can’t let it go. I still have to mention it!
But they’ve been doing a good job with moodier stuff – plus wacko motel rooms – plus fictional spaces like Billie’s “office” and the Empty.
Yes, we still have Gilligans-Island-Hell-Throne-Room – but as long as it’s balanced out with other better stuff it doesn’t annoy me as much.
It’s interesting – just re-watched S9 and am now moving on to S10. Except for re-watching my favorite episodes, I’ve never done a complete re-watch of these two.
and you can tell the point when Hell and Crowley become … the snooze-fest that would follow. After Dean becomes human again – Crowley becomes the bored bureaucrat sitting on the throne. And the end of “Paper Moon” brings us Rowena. Meanwhile, we have Cas and Hannah’s road trip – which continues to bore me – she’s not good and she seems to forget she’s a celestial being – she plays it very very Human-like … and there it is: in those first episodes of S10 are the seeds of what will almost sink the show coming on down the pike years later.
You know, on my very first watch of Paper Moon – I was not crazy about it. I thought the flashbacks were way too extensive. I loved all the Impala scenes. On this re-watch, I really loved it! Thought the siblings-dovetail was obvious – and yet poignant – and there are FOUR Impala scenes, with deep conversations. It’s a wonderful episode.
There goes my first impression.
But it’s amazing to watch – at a distance – the episodes when both Castiel and Crowley became irrelevant.
Lighting was gorgeous! Was thinking of that scene where they pulled the Impala in front of the mortuary and there was that glow on the fields behind them. So much love for the Impala this year by our beloved DOP.
//Cas’ face in half-light during his quiet conversation with Jack.// hmmmm I have things to say about how Cas was shot but not sure if I should share (am I the resident conspiracy theorist on these threads?)
Did anyone find it interesting how Cas was shot throughout the episode (and at the end of the last one)? He seemed physically out of sync with the other characters. When they were all standing at the end of the episode, Cas was sitting and it made for odd framing. Earlier, when Sam was leaning forward towards Dean and Jack and they were focused on what he was saying, Cas leaning back and facing off at an odd angle from the other three. Of course in the ep before, he was facing away from them when they drove up. My friend said that it was purely for dramatic effect, but watching this one, I’m scratching my head. You mentioned the lighting on his face, that he was in half shadow. Aren’t these visual cues that something is not right with the character?
what I’m hearing is that Cas is maybe a lizard person, and what I’m saying is that I’m interested….
I don’t know if I picked up on this to the same level that you did. The piece of blocking I noticed most (aside from the configuration around the table with Dean on the couch in the background, which was so, so lovely) was Sam, Cas and Jack in the Impala for that driving scene, which was mostly shot from directly in front of Cas, with Jack in the bg. Several obvious reasons why they did this, not least to let JP go home early, but for me at least it still served the unpleasant effect of excising Sam completely from these conversations, connections, themes.
I flicked through again to remind myself of scenes and actually there was one other piece of staging that made me feel a bit better and speaks to what you’re saying — when Sam’s hanging his drycleaning in the cupboard and starts the “you’re in a good mood” his face is entirely in the dark and he chooses not to broach the subject of Cas’s return beyond “I’m glad you’re glad.” There’s some ambiguity there that’s promising.
(Dean this episode reminded me strongly of someone who’s had a long-term physical/mental health incapacity quickly lifted and has in response jumped feet first into slight mania — you just got to ride it with them until they settle down)
// Several obvious reasons why they did this, not least to let JP go home early, but for me at least it still served the unpleasant effect of excising Sam completely from these conversations, connections, themes. //
I felt this too.
Now that Cas is back – and Jack has glommed onto him – we’ll have to see where this goes.
Like I said up above somewhere – once Dean got “on board” with the Jack thing, Sam’s role has diminished.
// Dean this episode reminded me strongly of someone who’s had a long-term physical/mental health incapacity quickly lifted and has in response jumped feet first into slight mania — you just got to ride it with them until they settle down //
Totally felt this.
and I am sure my friends have felt this before from me. and were equally worried/glad that I seemed to be feeling better. :)
JP is so good – and as we’ve discussed – his thoughtful melancholy is just part of his personality – he doesn’t have to work to bring it out. It’s not acting. It’s part of who he is and it’s what he brings to the table.
Agreed in re: ambiguity. I do like the dynamic where Sam gets slightly embarrassed when his brother gets excited to this degree – it’s extremely realistic from a siblings point of view. Like, Oh God, my big brother is such a nerd, and I am embarrassed looking at how proud he is of his cowboy boots.
Paula –
In his scenes with Jack – he was filmed pretty straightfowardly – lots of closeups back and forth. It’s a clear relationship.
I did feel that Cas and Dean sitting in the car talking about Tombstone was a callback to earlier seasons – when this relationship actually EXISTED – instead of existing on fumes from the past. There was actually an enjoyable dynamic going on – missing from the show for a long LONG time.
I’m surprised to hear myself say this, since I’ve been “off” Cas for a long time – but it was good to see that dynamic back.
// I can’t remember if Jack knows about this?–but he did overhear that argument where Sam confronted Dean about it. //
Barb – yeah – pretty sure that Sam has said “listen, I get it” to Jack – although I haven’t rewatched those early episodes.
I agree that Jack’s reaction to Sam is one of impatience. He is not having Sam right now – and that just intensified with Cas’ return. He talked with Sam about his feelings – but not in the way he talked to Cas.
I also like how he’s glued to his computer – and all of the glances over his head when he said “the dead are rising in Dodge City, Kansas.” Now I realize, after watching it a second time, that Dean’s expression was coming from a different place than the other two. He was more like, “Oh my God, Dodge City, we are SO taking on this case, because I want to wear a bolo tie.”
Barb – I totally agree about the gorgeous-ness of that neon cross and the neon bar sign. Amazing.
I also think the graveyard scene with Dean and the Sarge was stunning night photography. Really black shadows.
Oh, and Dean spitting out a cobweb. Burlesque in full play, murmuring to himself, over the top grunting, hating every minute of it, “acting” out his part in life …
//That one shot where they’re sitting around chit-chattin and JA makes sure to cross his legs and get those freaking things in frame!//
Thank you, lord, for this.
And will just add my thumbs up to the of the positive comments here, and general confidence that the show is returning to form.
Thumbs up to:
– one off characters who feel real and fully inhabited – from the sargeant (strangely chuffed to see that’s Uncas from Last of the Mohicans) down to the bank clerk. (Actually the only one who didn’t quite hit it for me was the Cowboy Ghoul. Don’t know why.)
– likewise locations that feel authentic, not just ‘sets’
– Great, great light – a lovely moment of golden light hitting Cas and Dean in the car as they roll up to the first meeting with the sergeant
– a return to the Totes Bonks Motel Rooms of Yore (so they are … all in the same suite? Which also does triple duty as a wild west saloon and local history museum?)
– really ridiculous hats
// to see that’s Uncas from Last of the Mohicans //
REALLY. Okay! I just re-watched it last year – in preparation for my interview with Wes Studi! It’s such an effective movie, I think. Much better than the book!
// (so they are … all in the same suite? Which also does triple duty as a wild west saloon and local history museum?) //
Hilarious.
And Dean splurged for the best suite in the joint, clearly. The other guys don’t care.
Has anyone mentioned the painting of the cowboy – just his back – with lusciously rounded buttocks – ass-crack on display through the tight jeans – hanging behind Dean when he opens the closet door?
I’ll be back to read through comments later. It’s Deadline City at Chez Sheila … but I had to mention the ASS of that cowboy looming behind Dean’s head. They so easily could have put the painting of the horses there. Or the other cowboy cutout on display in the main room. But no … they put up this weird surreal painting which seems to be all about buttocks. Maybe it’s not relevant. But I doubt it.
also … it seemed like Sam might have wanted to talk to Athena about Amanda Palmer a little bit more.
Its a tiny moment like that that I wish they would develop just a teeeensy bit more – it wouldn’t take up a ton of time – maybe just 2 more exchanges … to help “fill out” Sam’s character – outside of his role in helping others.
again, Sam is really really hard to write. Have they lost writers who know how to write him?
I continue to cling to the argument Sam and Dean had a couple of episodes ago – where Sam’s anger was titanic, and his old fears about his tainted blood and John wanting Dean to kill him, etc. – roared to the surface.
But still: Sam listening to Amanda Palmer, liking her music, liking that this beautiful undertaker went to the concert, maybe asking her about it – or telling her his favorite song – or whatever … we need moments like this. Plus, Amanda Palmer is freakin’ cool and I’m betting Dean never lets Sam listen to her during long car drives.
I noticed his ears perk up at Amanda Palmer too! What a cute detail.
but Sheila, is Sam really hard to write? Could you expand — is there a specific sense in which you mean this? I think this is a very generous and charitable read, honestly….in my opinion and experience he is no harder to write than anyone else; certainly easier than Cas, who strikes me as near-impossible to write well these days.
I freely admit to being oversensitive about this due to how under-served Sam was last year and how blithely the show has skipped over anything important that happens to him for nearly a season and a half now. It’s these writers’ jobs to know who their main characters are and track their emotional journeys. It’s not hard to imagine yourself into Sam’s shoes and it shouldn’t be hard for Dabb and Singer to create a framework that takes Sam’s experiences seriously.
Ah…..complaining about this is kind of exhausting to do and surely exhausting to read. I go around in circles and spend a lot of time having “if only” feelings about the past — if only they had developed a relationship between Sam and Cas, there could have been some interesting negotiations with Jack this episode — what if Sam, who has been Jack’s main point of human contact, had had a brief exchange with Cas about who Jack is? What if he had feelings about who Jack goes to for reassurance/advice? What if the “we’re all monsters” line was his? What if they had not left Sam’s Lucifer experience entirely up to JP to keep alive, and his moment of fear at the end had structural weight?
etc etc…I don’t want to be a bonerkiller about some of the great moments this episode has. I remember Perez had similar trouble writing Dean last season in American Nightmare and was great with Sam, and the first few episodes this season give me comfort that they actually understand that they messed up big time last season — this understanding was not evident last season so that is a positive development!
// but Sheila, is Sam really hard to write? Could you expand — is there a specific sense in which you mean this? I think this is a very generous and charitable read, honestly….in my opinion and experience he is no harder to write than anyone else; certainly easier than Cas, who strikes me as near-impossible to write well these days. //
Yeah, my sense is that Sam is hard to write – OR if the writers “coast” in any way in regards to Sam, the whole show suffers. Dean is more solid: maybe he even “comes easier” to writers since he’s so active. But because of this Sam the character has a tendency to move into RE-ACTION mode – especially since Dan is ACTION. So we have Dean flailing about and Sam reACTING. That’s okay if it’s a Dean-focused episode, but Dean’s melodramas do have a way of taking over.
This only works if Sam is activated to some degree – by his own stuff. Demon blood/Ruby. Having no soul. “Breaking up” with Dean. Multiple times. Getting obsessed with Lilith. Amelia/normal life calling.
But when “they” (as in: the writers) don’t pay attention to Sam … or just trust him to be the reACTOR to Dean … the character starts to vanish.
So I think if the writers take a day off – in terms of creating Sam – which they did last season (multiple days off) – they miss the details/continuity of the man. That Lucifer basically raped the guy – where was Sam’s reaction to being in his presence? Sam is educated. Why is he gaga about planets being round? This is the writers being lazy about Sam – or not being able to “tap into” the Sam-ness of Sam.
I don’t know, now that I write all this it makes me think of the second draft I wrote for my own script. The female character was a natural scene-stealer and she came extremely easy. She was unpredictable, difficult, blunt, rude, and funny. She was such a strong-willed person that she basically had no friends left, and she didn’t care, she judged them harshly because they couldn’t “take it.” I could have written about her forever – I threw her into different situations and she either sank or swam. The guy character at first was just there to react to her, to highlight how out there she was. He appreciated her, he found her funny, she drew him up short, she infuriated him. But it was all in reaction to her. She took over! After I finished that draft and we had a workshop – I realized that it was imbalanced. And so my second draft was SOLELY about beefing him up. Activating him. Having him initiate. Having him push back with his own personality. Get him up to her level. Not just react. and the whole thing came alive.
So maybe that’s what I’m sensing in re: Sam.
I just finished Season 9 – and while so much of that was Sam reacting to Dean – it was coming from an extremely ACTIVE place. He was DONE with their regular dynamic. Done to such a degree that he removed himself from Dean’s drama and never got caught up in it – even though Dean was disintegrating before his eyes.
That took a very strong stance, a strong sense of self.
So I guess that’s what I mean.
Since the show is about a relationship – and since Dean is who he is – activated all the damn time – the writers sometimes seem to forget that the whole thing works best when Sam is just as activated. He’s not just there to RESPOND to Dean.
It’s such a balancing act. If Dean takes over, Sam has to be just as strong on the other side of that see-saw.
and yes, I think Castiel is hard to write too – esPECIALLY when whoever/whatever started to move him into a more human mode. Maybe swayed by his voracious fan base who abuse the writers of episodes on Twitter. :)
// It’s these writers’ jobs to know who their main characters are and track their emotional journeys. It’s not hard to imagine yourself into Sam’s shoes and it shouldn’t be hard for Dabb and Singer to create a framework that takes Sam’s experiences seriously. //
I comPLETELY agree. And their ignoring of Sam for last season was unforgivable.
But I think there’s a reason Sam can be a casualty in these situations more so than Dean … because of all those reasons I mentioned in my former comment.
I could be totally wrong.
Sometimes I think writers have more “fun” with Dean. And that is reflected in the episodes.
There is no excuse for this.
I share your “what ifs” – although I hadn’t considered the possibilities in the Sam/Cas/Jack triangle. I’m a slow processor – so sometimes I miss stuff. But you’re right.
and I think a lot of this is the hangover from last season when Sam vanished entirely.
Dean wasn’t really there either. Dean’s hostile comments about Hollywood … Ugh, I WINCE in remembrance of that awful episode. Where they pose as hopeful musicians. I want to WEEP at the roads not traveled.
What I would give to see him sing Girl Anachronism at the top of his lungs.
Or Grown Man Cry.
“I am simply giving up on you.”
Yikes.
Let’s let Sam loose! and let’s have Dean roll his eyes for once.
“Who’s Amanda Palmer?”
Sam’s outraged response.
and etc.
Oops. Just realized in the re-watch that is the comely and curvy backside of the Pinup Babe Cowgirl seen on display in the main room.
There goes my fluid-sexuality theory. Carry on.
It was a buttocks-y episode, with the backside musculature anatomy drawing just to the left of the iron door as Dean crawled out of the ghoul’s tunnels (from the crematorium?) into the mortuary.
Perhaps the show is working its way toward a Dean in Tom of Finland-land episode. They’ve been at it at least since Chief in Criss Angel is a Douchebag.
yeah those anatomy drawings were funny!
No Sheila I certainly did not notice that at one point the Butt Cowboy and Dean were identically dressed and I cannot imagine what possible relevance it has. Nope nope nope, nothing to see here officer.
if you’ll allow me to be an annoying c., in fact Dean is dressed like Chapsman not Butt Cowgirl…..
oh my God.
For a while I have been seeing the dovetail-connection of Sam and Jack: Sam’s belief that Jack can choose to be good because HE chose to be good.
Maybe because I am re-watching S9 right now – where Dean goes away from Sam because he knows that anyone close to him gets hurt or killed – but that final scene made me think of a younger Dean. His absence is what will protect those he loved.
I’m not up to this episode yet because I was just finally able to start watching today, but I just had to pop in to say OMG MY SHOW IS BACK I’M SO HAPPY I COULD CRY!!!!
A little pissed about Missouri, though.
Natalie – So glad you’ve started watching and catching up!
and yes! It’s back! It’s not perfect – but you can feel the show ITSELF – I was saying to Jessie I think, “What IS it that we’re feeling?” Because it’s an essence thing, a soul thing – it was almost like all of last season was a Soulless Supernatural, like Sam in S6.
It was IMMEDIATELY apparent (to me anyway) that they had done whatever the hell they needed to do to “get back” to what the show actually WAS.
Cosign in re: Missouri. :(
Well, there ARE a couple of us who feel like the show never left. But it’s too depressing to try to argue that point again, so I’ll just say that I’m happy that we all seem to be having fun with this season so far.
I’ve seen it before in fandoms, and felt it myself, when fans reach a point of disillusionment–to the point that it’s almost akin to a rl relationship souring. The message board I used to belong to had seemingly had it by the end of season 7, for example. I’m not saying that that is what happened last season here, because I think you inspire really thoughtful discussion rather than fan faction in-fighting. And I still have concerns that the show will lose its way somehow. But so far they are in track, and I admit that I’m feeling relieved that I can come here without trepidation again.
Absolutely agree with what you said about Sam. He’s such an interior character that I can imagine that it could be difficult to keep him “on the page”. I sometimes wonder how much of JP’s reaction shots are script direction and how much are him working out how his character would feel about a given thing.
Barb – I’m truly sorry about the trepidation and very glad that some people enjoyed last season – I think I said it to you before, I’m envious! I had to move on to Justified – and Terriers (omg Terriers) to get my obsession/emotional gratification on.
I continue to feel that last season was akin to Sam losing his soul. and now I’m hugging it out with the show in Bobby’s doorway. :)
// I sometimes wonder how much of JP’s reaction shots are script direction and how much are him working out how his character would feel about a given thing. //
Yes, it’s interesting to consider. Also JP clearly knows more about where Sam is “going” than we do – so he may be planting seeds that will blossom later. This is what I hope anyway. He seems very heavy this season – it’s a bit painful to watch – but I like it, since he seemed so insubstantial last season. The past is coming up for him – coming up for him in his interactions with Jack – and this is GREAT. It’s an interesting direction for Sam to take – as long as they keep developing/justifying it. Rather than just relying on JP’s talent to “fill” it.
It’s almost like whatever theme “they” (show runner, writers) want to present – whatever Arc it is they are planning – whatever challenges with relationships they are planning on developing – has to be present in SOME way in each and every episode. That’s how you build continuity and get payoffs.
I just re-watched the Charlie/Oz episode. There’s a kind of clumsy “Hey man why haven’t you moved in yet” exchange, while they’re hunting down the Witch – and as awkward as it is – it kept the larger Arc present, it reminded us of the conflict/stakes (not to mention Dorothy’s whole “no place like home” thing).
It’s a delicate balancing act because you don’t want to be obvious or pat about the whole thing.
For me, the look on Sam’s face when he said “You look happy” to Dean – and the look right after – somehow kept that other Arc – whatever it turns out being, I have no idea – alive, present, vibrating in the atmosphere.
I love those moments.
//I continue to feel that last season was akin to Sam losing his soul. and now I’m hugging it out with the show in Bobby’s doorway. :)//
I get that!
The trepidation was all on my side–your responses were honest, and you and everyone here are always kind. Not to be melodramatic, but I felt like I’d been burned by fandom before, and I did not want to again put myself into the Little Miss Sunshine role of defending the show or continually putting a positive spin on things. I didn’t have the energy.
Anyway–
Terriers is a great show, and my husband and I finished watching Justified last year, too! How do you feel about Game of Thrones? Stranger Things?
:-)
//and now I’m hugging it out with the show in Bobby’s doorway. :)//
Yes! That sums it up well.
I was NOT expecting to like Jack this much. I absolutely love him.
Barb – Jessie recommended Terriers to me after I saw Jim Beaver in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof last summer, when Michael Raymond James played Brick. and I fell in LOVE with Terriers. Totally kind of eccentric character-based shows.
I haven’t seen Game of Thrones (can you believe it?? but I don’t have HBO) or Stranger Things. Do you love them?
I’ll have to do some catchup eventually!
Natalie – I so love Jack. I love the acting, I love the conception of the character – I love him – and I also love what he does to the other characters, how his presence has affected the brothers.
It’s working really well!
// Do you love them?// I do, I really do! Game of Thrones can be a bit problematic at times, especially with its depiction of violence, and a disproportionate ratio of female to male nudity, but it also has such a grandeur about it, that somehow never dwarfs the characters. Gorgeous scenery, epic and emotional battles, Shakespearean personality conflicts, characters that live in the grey areas instead of black/white–I highly recommend it.
We haven’t quite finished season 2 of Stranger Things, so my opinion might change, but again, even though it’s a series that borrows so much from vintage Steven King and Lovecraft, and has so much crazy stuff going on, the characters are the most important part, and the creators are kind and empathetic towards most of them. It is often cited for its 80’s references, so I’m sure that nostalgia plays a part in my reaction, too, though I don’t think this aspect is overdone by any means. Plus, there’s a character named Barb, which really doesn’t happen that often, so that’s a bonus in my book (I almost went as her for Halloween this year–)!
One thing I will note, though, with regard to the 80’s stuff–I’ve realized that we are missing something these days, now that soundtracks no longer rely on synth mood music! There’s nothing better for creating a feeling of unease or swoony romanticism.
//Well, there ARE a couple of us who feel like the show never left.//
I honestly wish I could feel that way about last season and see it the way you did, Barb! I am definitely glad we’re all on the same page now!
re: writing Sam (pun unintended) — just bringing this down here to keep the thread manageable.
Sheila thanks so much for expanding and your thoughts on writing/process!
I agree with your diagnoses and everything you say — but I am still going to (pedantically, obsessively) take issue with the idea that writing Sam is hard — maybe mostly because I feel it lets them off the hook (which you do not do in the least). All writing is hard. I guess what I’m saying is, in terms of writing an episodic, you say here’s my story for the week, my theme, my monster, my trope, my event. Your next question has to be: what does it mean for my two main characters. If you can’t answer that question, what are you doing there? And if you’re not interested in Sam’s inner life, in putting yourself in his shoes, how can you produce an SPN script (or season) that works?
Having said that, I am fascinated by your example with your script, and how you talk about activity and activation. They lost the balance last year (in my opinion, sorry Barb!) between external activity (stuff happens to them) and internal activity (they experience emotional conflict and turmoil). Good writing in this format will find a way to inextricably link these two kinds of activity — narrative, thematically, symbolically. If I’ve got you right, you’re saying that when they lose this balance (I place the blame on Dabb and Singer here, it’s their responsibility to manage) Dean’s busyness tends to explode all over the place — even when it’s empty action — and that’s how Sam gets subsumed.
Barb you say up top that things seem more personal this year and I think that’s because they’re finding this balance again. A balance that for (an astonishing number of) years seemed effortless, in both arcs and episodes, and this is where I circle around again to my raging judgmental shoulds — sure, Sam is someone who gets stuff done to him most of the time — and he lives like a Ladyhawke-and-Dahmer-lovin’ monk — but that doesn’t have to be passive in your story — it seems obvious to me that he has so MUCH going on — there is so MUCH to mine and activate there in terms of trauma, history, desire, relationships, his body, even the nature of reality — all of this can be linked to external plots and to seasonal frameworks, and I’m looking forward to Dabb and Singer treating him like an engine again.
I’m so so sorry, this has gotten way out of hand and, really, is more about my obsessions with writing and structure and how the show works than the episode in question so I’ll leave it here. Thanks for letting me get it off my chest, Sheila!
Jessie –
// And if you’re not interested in Sam’s inner life, in putting yourself in his shoes, how can you produce an SPN script (or season) that works? //
I absoLUTELY agree with you and I think their ignoring of Sam – coasting on JP’s acting ability – but completely misunderstanding WHO the guy is – for all of S12 was unforgivable. Dean is “easier” in that way – throw in wisecracks, pop culture references – and yes, it was shallow as hell – but it’s recognizably Dean. If you squint at the screen. But Sam – being “understanding” for all of S12 and worried about Dean’s relationship with Mary – without exploring his OWN feelings about it … showed a deep misunderstanding of the character AND the needs of the show. So I think Sam’s potential “issues” in S12 – his feelings about Mary, his feelings about Lucifer, hell, his feelings about Eileen – were completely not explored. They did not give a shit about Sam – because (in my opinion) it’s easier not to give a shit about Sam, because of Dean’s automatic scene-stealing suck-up-oxygen-in-room emotions. This is clearly not a dis on Jensen, who is amazing and not trying to “steal” anything. It’s just the nature of the characters. and so in S12, they took the easiest road out – with both characters – but Sam suffered more in the process b/c they couldn’t get their heads around Sam’s subtlety and also didn’t seem to care about it. I am TOTALLY not letting them off the hook. I’m PISSED and I WAS pissed. They coasted. Especially in re: Sam and at every step of the way they took the easy way out. “Dean freaks out. Sam talks him down.”
// Good writing in this format will find a way to inextricably link these two kinds of activity — narrative, thematically, symbolically. If I’ve got you right, you’re saying that when they lose this balance (I place the blame on Dabb and Singer here, it’s their responsibility to manage) Dean’s busyness tends to explode all over the place — even when it’s empty action — and that’s how Sam gets subsumed. //
Yes. I guess that’s what I’m trying to say.
When those links are lost, both characters suffer – but I think Sam’s suffers more.
I don’t have the episode order in my head – but after Mary abandoned them, there’s the episode where they dress up as child psychologists or CPS – in knit sweaters – and go to that house where the girl is in the basement. They have a “wrapping it up” talk as they walk towards the house – where Sam counsels Dean, or whatever – and it was TOO SOON for Sam to be okay – it was TOO SOON for Sam to be all “adult” with “perspective”. It was WAY too much focus on Dean’s melodrama – and without that counter-balance of what SAM was going through (beSIDES his role as someone who just REACTS to Dean) – the language felt so empty I WINCED. I realized, “Holy shit, this is the way they’re going with Mary abandoning them … NO NO NO … this is too easy for Sam to accept – NO”
and now we have this season’s grief counselor scene – and Sam explodes with what SHOULD have been explored through 4, 5 episodes in S12 – with their various cases bringing up their own lives … reflecting their own lives … the way it should work.
with that beautiful tipping see-saw – where Sam’s okay, Dean’s not, then Sam isn’t okay, and Dean realizes, “woah, what’s going on with Sam” – and Dean becomes the caretaker and on and on …
Anyway, I think you get what I’m trying to say. They let Dean be active and Sam just react to it for 18 episodes or whatever. and even that’s not really the case, because Dean’s “action” was empty – without that torment beneath it.
It was a debacle. and yeah: Dabb and Singer …
I am so curious about what kind of production meetings they had during last season AND during hiatus to re-right the ship. Because something clearly happened. I’d actually bet on Singer since he has said repeatedly that plot doesn’t interest him – all he cares about is character and relationship.
//I don’t have the episode order in my head – but after Mary abandoned them, there’s the episode where they dress up as child psychologists or CPS – in knit sweaters – and go to that house where the girl is in the basement. They have a “wrapping it up” talk as they walk towards the house – where Sam counsels Dean, or whatever – and it was TOO SOON for Sam to be okay – it was TOO SOON for Sam to be all “adult” with “perspective”. It was WAY too much focus on Dean’s melodrama – and without that counter-balance of what SAM was going through (beSIDES his role as someone who just REACTS to Dean) – the language felt so empty I WINCED. I realized, “Holy shit, this is the way they’re going with Mary abandoning them … NO NO NO … this is too easy for Sam to accept – NO”//
Totally agree with all of this, but it’s funny you should bring up this episode. There’s a scene in the house where Sam loses his temper and lays into the girl’s mother with a level of rage that’s so completely unexpected, it was absolutely thrilling to watch. At the time it made me forgive that previous scene with Sam counselling Dean, because I thought “Oh wow, this is it! This is all of Sam’s repressed grief and anger over Mary bubbling up and coming out in weird, uncontrolled ways, and I am HERE FOR IT.”
Sadly that was the first and last time it happened in that car crash of a season, but I still remember the potential there every now and then.
// all of this can be linked to external plots and to seasonal frameworks, and I’m looking forward to Dabb and Singer treating him like an engine again.//
Me too.
I’m feeling that engine again – Jack is an extremely clarifying figure. For Sam especially.
Let’s hope they continue to develop it.
I think I said somewhere else up above that my fear is that now that Dean is “on board” with Jack … some of that tension that brought that gorgeous fight to the surface – as big a fight as they’ve ever had – will lessen and they’ll just focus on “getting Jack back” without that tension.
I have SERIOUS trust issues.
But so far so good. at least in terms of the focus – which is on relationship, primarily. Dean-Sam, Sam-Jack, Dean-Jack, Cas-Sam-Dean, Cas-Jack …
ah ha ha ha I have HUGE trust issues too now! Literally the only people I trust any more are JA, JP, TJW and like Osric Chau or something…..
When those links are lost, both characters suffer – but I think Sam’s suffers more.
Okay, I completely get where you’re coming from, completely agree, and this is such a good way to say it, and thank you for elaborating!
Sam – being “understanding” for all of S12 and worried about Dean’s relationship with Mary – without exploring his OWN feelings about it … showed a deep misunderstanding of the character AND the needs of the show.
And this is why, even though Sam spent the first few episodes of the season comforting, counselling, being understanding — it worked because there were character notes like his fear of Jack and the tension with Dean re: grieving, but also because those conversations were about Sam as much as they were about Jack or Dean. They — activated, I guess — his past, his core. Fingers and toes crossed!
// it worked because there were character notes like his fear of Jack and the tension with Dean re: grieving, but also because those conversations were about Sam as much as they were about Jack or Dean. They — activated, I guess — his past, his core. //
YES.
and it’s like night and day.
You can feel all of JP’s LIFE roaring into the foreground. It’s all there.
I mean, he can listen and react like nobody’s business. He’s the best Listener on the show.
But he brings so much else … he’s even better when he’s listening to his OWN STORY going on inside of him – which is what was happening with Jack, AND in the arguments with Dean. Sam’s not just listening to other people – but to his own whole entire narrative inside him.
That was a crazy quilt of stories that only marginally fit the definition of ‘episode’; you could feel it being written around people’s days off and needs for future plots and really it had no business working as well as it did. I thought Speight did an impressive job of making it feel cohesive, although he should put the split focus diopter down before he hurts Sam’s nose, and I wish they would process the stock footage so it didn’t suddenly turn into an episode of Better Off Ted. There were some remarkably lovely shots — I’m thinking of the blue and yellow profile of Cas at the bar, or the pull back through the church at the end of the cold open, Lucifer and Jesus in one.
I don’t really know where Sam and Dean were, or how they connected to last week’s episode; it was, on the whole, vastly ridiculous; but it ably held my interest and it was kind of fascinating to see how it worked.
// that only marginally fit the definition of ‘episode’ //
ha. Right?
They were shoehorning a lot in there – Amadeus is back, in the Crowley role – didn’t he have a line even referencing how he was taking Crowley’s place? It’s unfortunate – but all it shows is how those are some big shoes to fill (and he ain’t filling them).
Agreed that Speight tied it together as best as possible – a pretty thankless job, but he made it work – and made some of it interesting to look at. The scene with Cas and Lucifer in the bar was especially nice.
I definitely missed Sam and Dean as players in their own story. and I miss Jack! I am curious as to where he is.
Rowena/Ketch return is a serious bummer and I am trying not to dwell on it!
I suppose those two – like Castiel – have a fan base? and so maybe they’re trying to keep that going?
Yeah, well, Charlie and Eileen had fan bases too.
so I’m confused about why they can’t just let Rowena GO already.
All of my bitching aside – I feel more trust in the show now. They’ve been very strong for enough episodes in a row – where I feel the essence of the show in operation, and the characters – so I’m okay. as you say – the episode worked as well as it could work, all things considered.
Alt-Universe, plus Cheap Hell set, plus Bunker, plus road-trip, plus minor-key MOTW. That’s a lot!
sorry for delayed reply have been super busy!
Agreed that Speight tied it together as best as possible
I can just imagine his face when he got the script ha ha ha. And Wanek’s! They both killed it.
so I’m confused about why they can’t just let Rowena GO already.
I think it’s just to have a loose-cannon female foil in their back pocket — one with convenient access to magic blah-blah. I like Ruthie Connell’s performance, but the character just kinda feels like showbreaking nonsense by now — like Crowley, she’s changed sides a million times etc and enemy-of-my-enemy ad absurdum, she was never tied into the major themes and needs of the show like Crowley was. But I still have zilch trust!
There was so much going on!! I know I love Speight as a director. Those opening shots of Lucifer being tortured by Michael were gorgeous.
The plot was all over the place. Buckleming episodes tend to be action packed
but that was almost ridiculous. I’m just going to say it…not happy about Ketch being back. He’s a great actor but I didn’t want him back. Seeing him back makes me fear that the BMOL could make a comeback and that was one organization that I wanted to forget ever existed.
There were things that I liked. Dean’s look of utter anguish when he was helplessly watching Sam about to lose the fight to the demon was perfect. That was all Ackles and he nailed it. Same with the scene towards the beginning with Sam at the computer. Sam’s worry over Jack was literally radiating off him and Dean was 150% focused on Sam at that moment and fully aware of that worry. Wonderful moment without either one of them having to say a direct word. Good acting and a good director who gives the seconds of space needed to let wordless moments like that happen.
I’m heading off on vacation this week. I’ll be on a cruise ship so I won’t get to see the next episode until I get back. Have a good week everybody!!
Have a wonderful vacation!!
// Seeing him back makes me fear that the BMOL could make a comeback and that was one organization that I wanted to forget ever existed. //
hahaha You and me both.
// Dean’s look of utter anguish when he was helplessly watching Sam about to lose the fight to the demon was perfect. That was all Ackles and he nailed it. //
Yes, I noticed that too!
// Sam’s worry over Jack was literally radiating off him and Dean was 150% focused on Sam at that moment and fully aware of that worry. Wonderful moment without either one of them having to say a direct word. //
Thank you very much for your very detailed eye – these smaller moments add up – and my bummed-out response to Ketch made me miss some of these subtleties. You’re right: JA and JP are being given more room and space to express that relationship, the whole POINT of the show … let’s hope it continues.
I love Jack! The war of opposites in him make’s him such a rich character. Good vs evil/heaven vs hell is right on the surface. There’s so much more – Man v monster, ancient powerful being v naive helpless child, Sam v Dean, earthliness vs supernatural, tragic v comic, adorable v frightening – in so many ways he embodies this show. One moment he’s on the computer and sounding so Samlike, the next he’s swaggering like Dean, rushing in where angels… Then he seems like the hapless early Castiel we all loved. He’s such a good actor, too, allowing that war to read all over his brooding brow. My daughter, who hasn’t watched since they killed Bobby, is hooked back in by Jack.
Totally agree with all you say about Jack and what he brings to the show – also how good he is.
As for the problem with Sam, I have noticed that he seems to be stammering and stuttering and not finishing his thoughts. Some one way up the thread said maybe JP is leaving us breadcrumbs for something to come. I really think so. It reminds me of Season 2 after John dies when he keeps pestering Dean about not dealing with his grief. We see him here worrying about Dean and Jack and Cass, but I feel like he’s going to be the one to break. I’ve been way off base before, but feels that way to me. The stammering and stuttering can be warning signs of mental illness, I think.
// I feel like he’s going to be the one to break. //
That would be great.
Sam “breaking” is so dramatically rich that it activates Dean in totally dysfunctional ways and pushes the show into the textured emotional melodrama that I know and love. Dean “breaking” also does this – when Sam threw away his rage at Dean in S9 (so dramatically important) to true CONCERN for where Dean was going with the mark – that whole journey was just so great – but it came from Sam being bold enough to change the dance step in the relationship.
anyway, we’ll see where it goes.
I was so broken-hearted at the brothers’ relationship in season 9.
There were scenes that were so very hard to watch. But when I realized where they were going with it – Dean dying, being a demon, being saved but then STILL being doomed with the Mark, and Sam’s reactions and actions to it all — I ended up loving it!
Ref Tombstone: Paula, gmta! Dean was smokin’ in that suit with his hat, bolo tie, snake skin boots, and bow legs! Yowsa! And I need the bit of Jack waking Dean up and “who’s getting me coffee”. We had to run that back 3 or 4
times. (My family is a wee bit coffee obsessed.) Cass: “Jack, I wouldn’t do that…” We laughed so hard. It was a great motw episode that was truly scary in a few places, visually very appealing from Athena’s look, to the motel, to the midnight graveyard, to the slow-mo perfection, funny, tragic, emotional. I can see it being a go-to rewatch episode, the kind you don’t get tired of like “Clap your Hands” or “Mystery Spot”.
Yay you’re back *hugs you tight* //I can see it being a go-to rewatch episode, the kind you don’t get tired of like “Clap your Hands” or “Mystery Spot”.// I agree, and the best part was it was unexpected. Same with last year’s Regarding Dean. I’ve already rewatched that one twice because there are so many moments to love. Here’s hoping for more Meredith Glynn episodes this season.
As for last nights episode I completely agree that the main case of the murdered witches got completely over taken by the other plot twists going on around it, but Speight did a good job of tying them together. The opening visual of Lucifer being tortured then the pull back revealing the crucifix was a bold, powerful image and really helped establish alt-Michael as an evil power to be reckoned with. I felt it was a bit of a stretch to jump from that to Lucifer chit chatting with Kevin (Yay Alt-Kevin!). Like who couldn’t see that coming?
Not Kevin, Lucifer getting away. I was totally blind sided by Kevin. I hope he’s not too busy with Dirk Gently to hang around for a bit.
I was struck by the size of that crucifix. Jesus hasn’t really played a role in the whole Heaven thing – which I’ve mentioned before as an asset to the show – keeping it looser, leaving Jesus out of it.
But still: it was a gorgeous space.
I had to run back the torture chamber scene with the pull back reveal of the crucifix. I thought the body on the cross was real on first watch. Lucifer hanging there in the iron maiden cage side by side with the crucifix reminds that the cross was a gruesome instrument of torture. The implication is that in the alternate world Michael tortured Jesus? It was a real waste to take Lucifer from the torture chamber with such powerful imagery to the minimum security of inept lackeys. Michael said he was going to leave him there in that cage forever. It just doesn’t make sense. I understand Lucifer needed to escape for the plot, but I agree with Paula, it makes them all look stupid to let him get away so easily.
Generally I agree with you, Sheila, about leaving Jesus out of the show. With this reference being part of the alternate universe it is removed from any real religious commentary and so it potentially works. Too bad they threw away the impact of that visual.
At this point, Rowena is more powerful than all the angels put together.
Some day I’ll stop complaining about her presence on the show but not yet.
That episode was bananas.
I am intrigued by the new Michael. and also Kevin Tran, who seems very different. Much crazier.
I gotta say: Rowena’s continued presence on the show is even more of a bummer now because now KETCH is back – because of HER – and I was bored with him the second he arrived. What is the DEAL with the show’s love affair with her, a glorified one-off? Her “magic” is so all-encompassing that they basically use her to push the plot along. “Oh, whatever, let’s let Rowena just handle it.” Back in the day – I remember on a commentary track everyone talking about Castiel and how they had to be very careful when to use him, when to hold him back – because his power was so enormous the temptation would be to just have him wave a magic wand and vaporize someone, or remove the threat … They had to really pick and choose their moments with Castiel. Castiel was a blessing and a curse at first and they really gave a lot of thought to how his presence could HURT the show (someone that powerful had the potential to remove all threats single-handedly) – and how he could HELP the show. Clearly they have not given the same amount of thought in re: Rowena.
I’m rewatching S10 right now and Rowena has just arrived and I thought, “Honey, you were interesting for about 2 or 3 episodes. You have done a lot of damage to the fabric of this damn show ever since.”
Mr. Amadeus or whatever his name is is not thrilling to me. They’ve just swapped out Crowley – who was (at his best) a source of outrageous humor – with this dude, doing the same shit Crowley did, on that same cheap set – only with no humor.
AND you’ll notice that with the return of Ketch, suddenly there’s a scene again with an automatic weapon. Sorry, guys, don’t mean to be a bummer, but I am so sick of that shit.
On the pro side:
Mark Pellegrino unleashed is always a good thing. Especially after last season where I barely remember him.
“Oh my Dad” made me laugh.
The episode LOOKED great. Lots of cool effects and I loved the shot of Ketch driving away on his motorcycle into this lonely landscape.
Also, there was a use of deep focus – which they NEVER do – in the scene with Sam in the foreground – in focus – at the table and Dean in the background – also in focus. Deep focus is such a strange device – human beings don’t see in deep focus – our eye picks and chooses what to focus in on – so to have everything in focus immediately creates an uneasy almost too-intimate feeling. Which is why Citizen Kane is so damn intense since the whole THING is deep focus. I’m not sure why they chose to use deep focus in that scene – normally what they do when both guys are in the same frame is the focus-switch – and they used that too – but most of it was deep focus. It was very bizarre. I liked it, but it was bizarre.
This was an info-dump episode – a top-heavy episode – there’s a couple every season – moving all these gigantic concentric circles forward.
I like Castiel’s intensity in re: Jack.
OH and fantastic multi-demon fight scene. That annoying “style” that came in last season and showed up in a fight early this season – with frenzied quick cutting – where you can’t even tell what is happening – wasn’t in play. You always could tell where everyone was – and yet it was still exciting to watch.
These are my thoughts – haven’t read everyone else’s yet. More tomorrow!! Look forward to hearing everyone else’s perspective.
I loved the shot of Ketch driving away on his motorcycle into this lonely landscape.
Artist’s impression. (I’m sorry! It’s all I could think about! Especially considering he had stymied the brothers Winchester so completely by knocking, like, a rusty plant pot?? in front of the door. I couldn’t stop laughing at how terrible it was)
AND you’ll notice that with the return of Ketch, suddenly there’s a scene again with an automatic weapon.
yup….booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
It was very bizarre. I liked it, but it was bizarre.
I thought this was Speight’s biggest misstep! I find these diopter shots so ugly, on the whole, and they’re such a huge and — as you say — bizarre move that they have to be really motivated and I don’t think it was in the slightest. But really that’s just part and parcel of the bag-of-cats crazy that this episode was. Like I said to Helena, I just can’t get over Jensen “Days Of Our Lives” Ackles having to react to an evil twin plot with a straight face…like….I am just sitting here at work cry-laughing helplessly over this right now…..I never imagined such a glorious atrocity would occur on our show but here we are.
I completely agree ref Ketch and Rowena. The only good part was that Dean wasn’t fooled for a second by his act. I was slightly teased by the ending thinking he was maybe dead and now a demon, which might be sort of interesting, but then why would he be looking for Rowena. Agreed that Rowena does not need to have that much power over life and death, especially since Cass couldn’t even being back the security guard last week who was only a little bit dead. The angel possessing Sam (Gadreel) brought back Charlie from the dead. I can’t keep up with whether Cass has full power or not. Of course if he’s really the Big Empty Entity in a Cass costume that might explain things… Sorry that was a 180.
Lucifer is so great – hate him, love him, hate him again – how does Mark P manage to jerk us around so effectively. I also laughed at “oh my dad” as well as “that hurts” when Cass called him the weak link. I was querying why Castiel was letting a powerless Lucifer manipulate him and my daughter observed, ” Mom, Cass is just not equipped to handle Lucifer at all.” So true.
As a southerner I am mildly offended by the Asmodeus stereotype, although Dean’s referral to him as evil Colonel Sanders was pretty funny. I keep waiting for the Boss Hog reference. I am completely over poncy Brits and Canadians trying to do a southern accent (yes, Daniel Craig, I’m looking at you.) The Asmodeus actor is from Indiana so I guess that’s a little better, but still I wish they would steer clear.
// especially since Cass couldn’t even being back the security guard last week who was only a little bit dead. //
Exactly.
Making Rowena more powerful than Heaven is SUCH a cop-out, SO lazy.
// and my daughter observed, ” Mom, Cass is just not equipped to handle Lucifer at all.” So true. //
I love this observation. it was kind of like Dean’s insanely jacked-up response to being in Adam’s presence when he first learned of his existence. He could NOT DEAL.
//only a little bit dead.// hahahaha. My husband wasn’t even watching this ep with me and I hear his voice floating in, with some irritation, from the other room. “I thought Cas was dead. How many times has he come back?” Should have used The Princess Bride quote.
Well, this was a hot mess. I agree that Richard created some beautiful scenes with the script he was given. But of all the characters that could be brought back to life or show up in the alt world, I’m not happy about Ketch (please no more BMoL) and Kevin (I like him, I’m just done with him). Michael could be really interesting but why did they make him so impotent so far? After that gorgeous intro rising from the gravel pit with his wings, he’s now engaged in hand to hand fighting with Lucifer, waiting for prophet Kevin to whip up a spell, and had lackey angels who let Lucifer escape. It’s not particularly otherworldly or powerful.
I agree with the other about the two best scenes being the exchanges between Sam and Dean.
// After that gorgeous intro rising from the gravel pit with his wings, he’s now engaged in hand to hand fighting with Lucifer, waiting for prophet Kevin to whip up a spell, and had lackey angels who let Lucifer escape. It’s not particularly otherworldly or powerful. //
Paula – I know. There’s always been a slight failure of imagination on the part of everyone involved in re: how angels fight, where their power goes – conveniently – resulting in fist fights that are supposed to be somehow … celestial?
and hey – it was great to see the actress who played the woman Sam killed when he had no soul, the bartender with the scratchy voice. I LOVED her in that long-ago episode and I loved her here too.
It was pretty funny to see Castiel beating the shit out of three women at once.
//the actress who played the woman Sam killed when he had no soul, the bartender with the scratchy voice. I LOVED her// oh me too. She has the most soulful eyes.
Fun fact, she was Sheriff Jo Lupo in Eureka, and her character was in a relationship with the shapeshifter therapist’s ex from 13.04.
Eureka is one of those show I need to watch from the beginning.So many people love it.
\\They so easily could have put the painting of the horses there//
Back on Tombstone: Wasn’t this horse painting hanging on the wall in French Mistake Jared’s office?
I don’t think so. That one had him as a cowboy in it.