“I gotta ask you… when you was going into them early fights, when you first started coming up, you walk into the ring … what is that shit like?”
“It’s really orgasmic. It’s almost like –”
“Like, did you feel part of you nervous, like tense, but the other part, like you gonna kill somebody?”
“I’m not nervous. I’m scared.”
“Ah.”
“I’m scared.”
“Yeah.”
“Cuz I’m a scary guy. I been picked on all my life. I been abused all my life. People did anything they wanted to me, so I have natural fear of not being safe.”
“Yeah.”
Eminem appeared on Mike Tyson’s podcast (which is a great podcast, by the way). The two men have a very … soft conversation. Not as in volume, but as in … energy. Gentle energy between them, and curiosity about each other. Open. Lots of talk about their self-esteem and their self-loathing and their crazy self-destructive behavior and their defensiveness when attacked, and how their chosen careers are a blessing and a curse and a trap, and they also talk about how they learn and change and grow. I mean, for real. This is how they talked to each other. Mike Tyson says something absolutely brilliant about what all great men have in common: wait for it. It’s not what you think. Honestly I’d never thought about it before, not like that. There was a missing piece there somehow for me, even though I spend so much of my time thinking and analyzing great men (or, at least, men who are great – i.e. the best – at what they do), and when Tyson said what he said, a light bulb went on. It struck me: YES, that is exactly RIGHT, how have I MISSED that? I think I missed it because I did not grow up in the nightmare Tyson grew up in. Or Eminem. The perspective is different. When Tyson said what he said, of course I thought of Elvis. I’m going to use Tyson’s quote in what I’m writing. Eminem is star-struck by Tyson. And he actually laughs spontaneously a couple of times which, yeah, is rare. He seems very open, which is not really who he is in public. I found this relaxing to watch and listen to. I found Eminem and Mike Tyson relaxing. What country, friends, is THAT. Is it the quarantine getting to me? But this is a conversation between soft sensitive men, with hard exteriors, who can be gentle with each other. lol like what. People can be surprising and beautiful and I love it when that happens.
Anyway, if you have a free 40 minutes …
Eminem doesn’t give interviews. Eminem does not promote himself. Eminem barely leaves his house. Which is why his stalker knew he would be home. The man is a recluse. But he came out for this. I’m very glad.
Sheila
Great interview from both sides! I’ve always had an interest in Mike Tyson and I really want to get the book by Larry (Ratso) Sloman on Cus D’Amato. Mike and Cus, those two fascinate me. Eminem I don’t know at all. I’m going to take your challenge and check him out because I love him in this interview here. They are both great listeners! And both, but especially Eminem pushes the conversation on. Tyson let’s drop such revealing deep things about himself. Like, he’s from a dark world. It’s fear that drives him, he doesn’t want to go back to Brownsville. and Yes, his idea on what all great men have in common, that tiny bit of low self esteem mixed with they think they are Gods, it’s that little bit of low self esteem that drives them! Tyson talks about this natural fear of never being safe and because of it in a fight he can be sadistic. They’ve both been abused and bullied, and both fought their way out against the odds, they understand each other perfectly.
They are both very smart without a formal education. They way they talk about Hip Hop, again, I know nothing about but it gave them both pride.
It was fun for both of them!
Ok, I’ll be checking out this guy Eminem……I noticed when he laughs he doesn’t really smile, he’s got a lot going on inside, but he smiles with Tyson ( a little) here.
I got interested in the challenge because my Dad didn’t give me a lot of guidance except to say every other day, stay curious! So, that caught my eye……
Regina! Hello – good to see you over here! No more FB! I miss it in some ways – but in other ways … I ain’t never going back!
Now onto more important things: I loved to hear your thoughts on this interview!! I was just so taken with it – by both of them and their reactions to each other – the mutual respect – and how Tyson has a kind of childlike inability to be “surface-y” – he can’t. He’s just blasted open. Except in his music, Eminem is the opposite of open. He so rarely does interviews – and when he does, it’s usually with a friend or someone he trusts – DJs he likes, people who’ve supported him over the years – he gets shit for that but I don’t blame him. He doesn’t need to do the circuit of interviews anymore. so when he DOES do an interview, it’s always huge news.
This is the best I’ve seen – mainly because he is so in awe. It puts him in a different position than he’s normally in. It almost feels dangerous. Tyson is so open it might force MM into a position he’s not normally in. Just one example: Tyson asks him about his daughter. Eminem has been rapping about his love for his daughter from the beginning of his career. In a way, he “put her out there” – something he now regrets, even though he did successfully keep her face private – no one even knew what she looked like. Other rappers, trying to take Eminem down, have mentioned Hailie in their songs – and lived to regret it. Bottom line is: he never talks about his daughter. Recently a DJ asked him what it was like to have Hailie be all grown up now – and what it’s like to have a daughter who’s dating (kind of a rude question – but again, Eminem kind of asked for it: if you’re into Eminem, you’ve “watched” Hailie grow up through his songs over the years) – and Eminem said, very politely, “I’m not going to answer questions about my daughter, man.” and the interview went on.
But here, Tyson asks him about Hailie – and – because I am so familiar with MM – I can feel him slightly tense up – his answer is very careful, but he does answer it. Because it’s Tyson asking. Tyson has earned the right to ask him whatever he wants to ask.
If you want to “get started” with Eminem – I suggest watching 8 Mile – if you haven’t already. It’s a wonderful movie, he’s a wonderful actor, and it’s based on his early years trying to get his career started. It gives a good perspective on his essence – and why people love him so much and why his fans are so loyal. Even when he misbehaves or acts like a brat (which is often).
good call on the smiling! It’s really weird and almost sad to go back and watch Eminem’s earliest appearances – on MTV, in music videos, or just horsing around with his friends – he was so light and bouncy, lots of laughing – all of that is gone now. His best friend from childhood (and into adulthood) was a guy named Proof and Proof was murdered in 2006 – it seems to be one of the defining events of Eminem’s life. He has never really been the same ever since. When you see 8 Mile, his best friend in that is based on Proof (who was still alive when 8 Mile was made). Proof was the friend who told Marshall Mathers he was great and worthy and was going to make it – even when they were in high school – and total dirtbags with 75 cents between them. Proof believed in him when no one else did.
I don’t know. I find MM touching, vulnerable – I love when Tyson says that when he was first brought into his (white) manager’s nice house, his first thought was “Imma rob these white people” and it surprises Eminem and he really almost bursts out laughing. He can’t quite go there but you can see it.
I wish Eminem had acted more. He’s excellent.
// Tyson talks about this natural fear of never being safe and because of it in a fight he can be sadistic. They’ve both been abused and bullied, and both fought their way out against the odds, they understand each other perfectly. //
So true.
I’ve probably seen every interview with MM ever – the Anderson Cooper one is good too ! – but this one is the best.
Hope you are well !!
Oh, and I’m putting together an essential Marshall Mathers Playlist, just for my own amusement. I’ll post it here, if you’re interested in checking any of it out. His discography is so massive – thought it would be fun to at least try to pick out my favorites and write a little something something about them.
Shake That is canon.
Sheila
I haven’t even seen 8 mile, ok! I’ll start there. I did start looking into a little about what you wrote about Eminem on the other post. I’m one of those people who never heard Kim, I mean, I really don’t know anything. So I started there. It made me cry! I didn’t think misogynist, it was very upsetting and sad, that’s not a negative to me! Some people can’t take hearing that, some people have lived it and they don’t want to hear it either, to me it was very real and a part of life that is unfortunately very common and true and I want to hear it. And when you said Eminem did the woman’s voice, whoa! that was very dark and strange and got me further interested! I have to go back to that post because of all the great things you said about acting and really going all the out there and fantasy and all, yeah! that’s where the fun is! Why else do it? haha!
It’s funny about the smiling thing. The same was said about Dylan. In the beginning he was practically giggly, so silly at times and slowly with that massive fame he began to cover and protect himself. Not Tyson though! He does have a “childlike inability to be “surface-y”. He’s endlessly fascinating to me.
And I quit FB too! For me too much group think and thought police on there, not interesting to me!
Regina – ahhh I’ve been off the grid for the last 2 weeks so I am just now catching up. Still not back on FB – are you on there still?
I am so impressed you went and listened to “Kim”!! It’s one of his most ruthless songs. But also one of his most heartbreaking. The way he’s sobbing “God I love you” – and his voice is wayyyy up in the rafters? Cracking? I cannot tell you how much I wish we had footage of him actually doing this in the booth. I mean, I don’t need to see it to know he was “in” it. Dr. Dre, who was at the control booth, said something like, “He was in there screaming and crying and it was so dope and if I was Kim I’d fucking run.” lol Art is sometimes complicated.
// It made me cry! I didn’t think misogynist, it was very upsetting and sad, that’s not a negative to me! Some people can’t take hearing that, some people have lived it and they don’t want to hear it either, to me it was very real and a part of life that is unfortunately very common and true and I want to hear it. //
I am so with you on this. I also don’t find it misogynist at all. Misogyny I think is more – one-size-fits-all. ALL women. He definitely goes THERE too at times – deep mistrust of all women – considering his mother I’m not all that surprised. He’s extremely damaged and he’s turned it into art.
// In the beginning he was practically giggly, so silly at times and slowly with that massive fame he began to cover and protect himself. //
So true about Dylan in the beginning. He was playful, almost.
I am very interested in these people who are able to WITHSTAND fame. and Dylan’s fame was white-hot. Eminem’s is white-hot. There’s fame and then there’s what THEY have. How do you even bear it, or not let it ruin you? Did Dylan ever have substance abuse problems? Or did he manage to avoid that?
I just wrote a massive post about Eminem – clearly he’s been on my mind – and the more I think about it the more amazed I am that he even made it OUT of his childhood. Multiple suicide attempts along the way, before he was famous, you know? It was that bad.
So how do you have THAT as your life – and then in a matter of a year – you are famous the world over?
There just isn’t a handbook for that kind of thing. You just have to keep grinding. Eminem did not get “caught up” in the trappings of fame – this is one of the things that has saved him. He still lives in his hometown, just a couple of miles from the slums where he grew up. Obviously he doesn’t worry about money anymore – but he doesn’t have lavish taste. He’s a workaholic. In one of his songs he jokes about how he became famous and it was still a couple of years before he realized he could buy actual hamburgers and not just “hamburger helper.” He had no concept of how to eat well, how to buy groceries, that he could choose the real thing over a cheap imitation. Poverty scars run deep. You go from nothing to having everything. No wonder so many people flame out.
Hope you are well!!