Dinner in America. written/directed by Adam Rehmeier, and starring Kyle Gallner and Emily Skeggs (with amusing cameos by Lea Thompson, Pat Healy and others: everyone’s great in it) is out in theatres now, and will be available on demand June 7th. I reviewed for Ebert.
I have since seen it a second time. My first watch was a weird experience. I was turned off initially, but about 15 minutes in, I realized what the movie was doing, and was consequently swept up in the joy and fun and catharsis of the story. I decided to write about this transformation in my review. It seemed important, and in the movie’s favor. It’s not that the first 15 minutes were bad or unsure. It’s that I was not aligned with the movie’s headspace, for whatever reason. Once I WAS, everything else came into focus. (And, on second watch, the opening sequences made perfect sense and are extremely effective. I don’t know what my problem was, because this is a very ME movie (obvious from the films I compared it to in my review. I love all of them).
The movie knows where it’s going and what it wants to do. The mood is raucous and anarchic but with spaces of surprising tenderness. The film has room for both! So few movies can do both!
I said most of what I needed to say in my review, but here are some additional thoughts, coming into focus after seeing it in a second time in the proper headspace. I love the horniness of the movie. I love her horniness and his. It’s (sadly) unexpected: American films shy away from sexuality now, except in the most generic way. Sex is seen as such a serious subject, fraught with peril, and way too hot to address honestly. I understand why this is happening, and I think the reckoning going on about sex right now is long overdue, and it’s not surprising that the reckoning would have an impact on the art that we make, but … Banishing sex – or, not even sex – just general horniness and desire for it – refusing to allow this in our stories is reverting us all to the Victorian age! Everyday garden variety hookups are discussed in terms of gaslighting and power differentials. If everyone wants to be there, and if everyone’s a consenting adult, then why is it anyone’s business? Human connection cannot bear this kind of ponderous weight. Not every hookup is Cat People. I’m mostly talking about how this larger cultural event has impacted art. It’s not pretty. Member when “erotic thrillers” were a thing? I miss those, trashy as some of them are. Dinner in America shivers with the joy of what it feels like to “break through” conditioning and first impressions and just “click” with someone. Not just sexually, but attraction is a huge part of it. Attraction is redemptive, if you set up the story correctly – as Rehmeier has done here. People are set free when they meet the right person.
Here are some moments I love, some of which I mentioned, others I didn’t.
I’ll start off with my favorite moment in the whole thing:
He says it, in his gruff deep voice, in a deadly serious tone. He’s not making fun of the moment. He’s not distant from it. Neither is the movie. It’s real. It sounds ridiculous and self-important if you step outside the moment, but you’re NOT outside the moment. The whole point of the movie is that rock ‘n roll IS THAT SERIOUS. It’s not ironic at all. Rock ‘n roll means what it says. And yet, the moment is hilarious too – because of the seriousness and the truth of it. Plus the ski mask.
A couple moments I mentioned in my review , like his stalk across the vacant lot:
It’s such a good shot, a critique of our entire world Right Now in a single image.
And finally: Emily Skeggs’ blazing irrepressible smile. She is having so much fun and she has never had fun before. Sometimes she looks almost scared AS she’s smiling. Her joy is overwhelming her. She can’t believe her own life! THIS IS WHAT FUN FEELS LIKE! Once she gets into a groove with the swerve her entire life has taken in a 24-hour time span, she’s in a state of suspended ecstasy. She’s found her way. She steps into the light, the light of his company and being looked at and seen. He can scowl and growl all he want. He’s thrilling and she is HERE. FOR IT.
Dinner in America is a “little” movie about two people but it is fully ALIVE, to itself and to the world around it. The world – where we are “at” now – is present, like a polluted fog the characters squint through – but without making a big deal about “saying something” or having a “message”. Simon and Patty are the main event, misfits in different ways, incompatible in all the obvious ways, except for the fact that they live and breathe punk rock music, and they’re both raging at the machine. He performs his rage. It’s out there for all to see. She? You’d never know by looking at her that she is on FIRE inside.
Movies like this matter, especially in a landscape where there just doesn’t seem to be enough oxygen and/or TIME to absorb all the new releases tossed onto this or that platform, only to be buried the following week.
So. See Dinner in America. It’s in theatres now. It’ll be stream-able on the 7th. Once again, here’s my review for Ebert.
This was really sweet. I loved Patty and warmed to Simon. I liked that Simon didn’t force himself on Patty, that he met her where she was and who she was. I also liked Simon’s interplay with Kevin – not dismissing him, just seeing that he needed to chill. And the look in Simon’s face when Patty finishes their song (“Fuck ’em all but us” – I’m there with you Patty!). He was just overwhelmed, he’d seen something better than he had ever imagined! The image you have above.
I don’t know if Patty was in some ways inspired by Patti Smith, who has her own bit of awkwardness, but when the movie was over I was thinking of Patti’s song Privilege where she’s shouting “Set me free!” A punk poet breaking out.
I also loved the kids at Simon’s family dinner “Dopers share needles and get AIDS.” That was funny. Poor little robots, learning to succeed through conformity. If they’re lucky, Simon will share his herb with them when he’s out of prison and they’ll avoid the Ivies.
Thanks, this was a great recommendation.
It’s so cool that you were quoted on the poster. I’m so glad I caught you mentioning it on IG the other day, I totally missed this when the movie came out – and it feels very me, too. Angry but sweet? TRUE weirdness? Punk? And horny? YES PLEASE.
I’m so in love with Gallner. And Skeggs is soooo funny. I need to re-watch it.
It’s funny, even though you mentioned it was a love story, when I was watching it I thought maybe I had misread, because I couldn’t see how these two could possibly end up together. Until they did. Damn, I love this movie so much. Thanks again for the rec!
I was so psyched I was on the poster! I mean, to be honest, it was because I was one of the only people who reviewed it – or gave it such a positive review. but still – I’ll take it!
so glad you saw my mention of it and decided to check it out. It makes total sense that you would love it – based on our shared taste in many things, lol!
“TRUE weirdness” – right?? Not soft-pedaled movie weirdness – where someone is “weird” but really they’re just “quirky” as well as conventionally attractive. This? I mean, “normal” people would look at EITHER of these two and be like “uhm, no thanks.” even though he’s a rock star, it’s still true! Like, who could even DEAL with him? but her?
I love too that I don’t think anything romantic has ever happened to her – ever – literally – and yet she’s on FIRE. I love that the film acknowledges that it doesn’t take a man to “unlock” something – she’s already THERE. lol I mean, she has an object of desire – HIM – and look how bold she is, taking Polaroids and sending them off – in BLACK envelopes covered in PINK hearts and swirly girlie writing – these details! How much fun did the prop department have creating those? it’s so interesting. she doesn’t use PINK envelopes – no no – BLACK is better for the punk rock-ness of it – and yet … for her love letters she must use swoopy girlie writing and use pink heart stickers – lol I just love this. No part of her has to change in order to be loved by him. Nothing. well, that’s not true – the only thing that has to change is that she has to understand she is awesome and to not let other people make her feel bad about herself. THAT needs to change. and it does!
it’s so fucking romantic. I couldn’t even believe it the first time I saw it – how INTO them I was – and the last scene by the car door – it had been such a (sadly) long time since I’d seen such an effective (hetero) romance.
I love his line reading of “I would not have expected that” after he kisses her. the facade drops. But I think he recognizes he’s “into her” way before that. Is there a moment when he clocks her as “…. huh … I’m into you …” ? can you think of it?
I don’t think it’s just because she gives him shelter when he’s on the run. Maybe it’s when he sees her parents? Thoughts? I think there might be a more subtle moment where she suddenly surprises him and he realizes he actually wants her.
is it when he sees that there’s a dead cat in her yard and she doesn’t care? is he like “this girl is crazier than I am and I am here for it”?
or maybe he really just goes nuts for her when he discovers she is his Black Envelope Pen Pal. but I thought he really “noticed” her before that.
I don’t know — what I remember is that there’s something subtle but surprising about his sexuality. First, he’s not interested one bit by the young woman who invites him home and offers to blow him. But then, I think he just wants to fuck her mother because the man of the house is annoying?
I don’t remember when it happens – I don’t know if they’ve kissed yet but at some point they’re in Patty’s room and she offers sex and he says he doesn’t even know if he can get hard, and he doesn’t judge himself for it either, it’s just fact – but I also felt it was an excuse? Maybe because it would feel like taking advantage of her since he knows she’s the groupie? But you can come up with all sorts of reason, even just “I’m tired.” But he’s like, I can’t get it up right now. And, when you compare to other guys in the movie,… I don’t know, I need to clarify my thoughts on that, but I think I also really enjoyed the movie because of the take on masculinity. And what Gallner makes of it, too. (god, I love him)
// I think he just wants to fuck her mother because the man of the house is annoying? //
why is this making me laugh so hard?
yeah the “I can’t get hard” moment is interesting!
I think it’s REALLY intimate to say something like that and yeah something most guys wouldn’t just come out and admit. especially not on a first potential hookup kind of moment. and maybe a sexually experienced girl would feel defensive – like she’d take it personally – whereas Patty doesn’t at all.
I love how she asks him: “do you want to put your hands down my sweatpants now?”
like she is raring to GO. and the look on his face when she says it like that.
// I think it’s REALLY intimate to say something like that and yeah something most guys wouldn’t just come out and admit. //
Here’s where that character is not a cliche: he isn’t a punk out of ego (and I’ve seen that both in punk character and real life dudes) he’s the real deal. Heg ets beat up by Track Suits, and he is pissed they got the upper hand, but his feelings aren’t hurt. He doesn’t care that he’s not Man Enough.
I think he doesn’t want to have sex with that girl because he knows something she doesn’t and that doesn’t feel honest. And he is honest. It’s something they have in common: they say what they mean, they mean what they say.
“Do you think I’m weird.”
“Yeah, you’re weird as fuck.”
“But is it cool?”
“No.”
hahaha. He doesn’t say that to be mean, he’s just being truthful. And there’s no judgement either, because he doesn’t value coolness.
So he doesn’t care that he might be seen as less manly. He needs to peel away a few more layers (show her where he comes from, and that he’s John Q) before they have sex.
And you’re right, she doesn’t take it personally either. She’s disappointed, though, and she doesn’t hide it. But she moves on. She’s in for the adventure, and if it’s not sex, whatever, it’s something else interesting.
“But is it cool?”
“No.”
LOL!!!!
// he doesn’t value coolness. //
I absolutely adore this observation, Lyrie!
YES. To be “cool” means you’re putting on a pose. or to care about coolness means you care about fitting in.
She tells him she had “the best day ever” and all they did was yell at her old boss, kiss, and then play pinball – which, honestly, sounds to me like the best day ever too.
Seriously! That’s the kind of dates I want to go on.
and how does he invite her – something like “wanna just fuck around?” and that’s what they do.
seriously – best date!
AND he is so serious about winning her the giant bear – because she says she wants it – so he steals a bunch of tickets. which is romantic in a kind of criminal way.
//TRUE weirdness” – right?? Not soft-pedaled movie weirdness – where someone is “weird” but really they’re just “quirky” as well as conventionally attractive. //
Yeah, she’s not quirky, she’s weird as fuck, and detached from reality in a way that’s… shocking. She’s the picture next to arrested development. I had NO IDEA how old she was until she says, at dinner, that’s she’S 20, and I was like what the fuck. What do you ask your mother if you can go see a concert, you’re TWENTY??
And he’s not just unpleasant, he’s such a fuckup too. I LOVED that the first time he confronts the 2 tracksuit bullies, he gets his ass kicked, haha
I’ve only seen it once (so far) so there are things that I’m only realizing in hindsight, or once you mention them. I didn’t read your review before, to keep a fresh perspective. And 1, I was like “what do you mean, it’s a love story?” And also I had no idea what was going on. Why does he prepare the gasoline BEFORE things go wrong with the family? Why does he even do that, it doesn’t seem personal? Is he really just an agent of chaos? (yes)
So for instance, I’m gonna be paying more attention to how the relationship evolves now that. I know where it goes, because honestly, until he kisses her, I didn’t think he was interested. Even the kiss, I thought he did more as a dare, or because he was bored. But now, I’m wondering.
His reaction to finding out she’s the one sending the polaroids also intrigued me: he seemed shocked, but not pleasantly. I mean, his first reflex is to GET THE FUCK OUT. Which, of course, now I understand more: that guy plays on being undesirable, on all levels, so I don’t think it computes, for him, to be ACTUALLY desired – not because a bored suburban mother wants to spite her husband, or whatever, but because that young woman admires his art so much she thinks it’s hot enough to masturbate to.
//I think he recognizes he’s “into her” way before that. //
I didn’t think he was into her before (but again, upon re-watch, that might change) but I was intrigued by him asking why she clams up every time he talks about fucking. Because it’s not judgemental or to provoke her, he’s really intrigued – at least that’s how I remember it. Which is… kind? Not gentle exactly, he’s kind but he’s rarely gentle.
it just occurred to me that – in his little world he’s a rock star and probably has fangirls all over him – and she IS a fangirl BUT she doesn’t know who he is and … seems to like him anyway? it might not be that deep.
It reminded me of Dogfight a little bit.
two totally mismatched people and yet … they just fucking gel together and who knows why.
he’s chaotic and she’s completely underwater. totally over-medicated. she literally has never heard the phrase “can I take a raincheck” – like, how do you manage to get to be 20 and never hear that? what has she been DOING all this time??
//it just occurred to me that – in his little world he’s a rock star and probably has fangirls all over him – and she IS a fangirl BUT she doesn’t know who he is and … seems to like him anyway?//
Yeah he has fans but he’s literally wearing a mask. Outside of the stage, his bandmates betray him, he’s friendly with a couple of drug dealers but they’re not actually friends, and his family… well. So I think being like AS A PERSON, especially since he works to hard to double down on being unlovable is not nothing.
Like, she invites him into her house, and he’s like “fuck your dad, your mom’s a dyke, your brother’s a faggot.” hahaht that guy is not used to being accepted, with or without judgement.
yeah the mask!!
also that he comes from clearly money – and actually has his own crash pad / recording studio in a huge basement … kind of goes against his punk rock bonafides …
so … I wonder if something about her just strips him down. even before she knows it’s him. for whatever reason, she already sees him without the mask on. she idolizes him alREADY.
like, they’re in the kitchen after she brings him home – he’s said all this horrible shit about her family – and then he tells her to take off her glasses, take down her hair, shake it around, take off the apron – and then he basically makes a massive pass at her – then tells her he’s “fucking with her”.
but what I want to point out is he tells her to take off her glasses and …. SHE DOES IT. she obeys him!
and yet somehow he doesn’t come off as a sadist. Maybe because she is so into it. even though with her sometimes it’s hard to tell.
he is just fucking around, I think – but something about her purity – just her pure real responses to things – however unbelievably naive – kind of throws him off. like … I could get this girl to do anything.
but yeah, then she “clams up” when he talks about fucking – which he always does.
I don’t know it’s weird – he’s like the opposite of sensitive (in a lot of ways) – like, she doesn’t like it when you talk about sex, STOP IT. so why do you keep bringing it up and throwing it in her face? but … he’s also maybe sensitive to the fact that she DOES actually like it?
//o why do you keep bringing it up and throwing it in her face? but … he’s also maybe sensitive to the fact that she DOES actually like it?//
Yes, I think you’re onto something here. He’s right to ask: why DID she bring him home? And sure, maybe she complies with taking the glasses off because she’s a child used to doing as she’s told.
She’s so naive, but in that, she’s also very true – and he hates bullshit most of all, and Patty doesn’t bullshit.
In the kitchen, “I’m still fucking with you” and I think he might be, he’s undecided as to whether he can work with “that” but I think when she says “no I’m not a homosexual” it’s so stupid and genuine, I think he’s touched. His laughter is genuine and not mean, more real surprise and amusement, I think. There’s a seed, there.
Also, he offers “you name it”, while caressing her torso, and we don’t know him yet so it’s a bit threatening, but also, I’m sorry, it’s hot. (did i mention I love Gallner?)
// His laughter is genuine and not mean, more real surprise and amusement, I think. //
yes! she’s truly surprising to him. he thinks she’s a loser at first. and she kind of is. but she also took in this scary outlaw and he can’t figure out why. and can she really be so stupid as not know what “vice” means? like, is she for real?
when he gets she IS for real – something else happens for him.
Imagine how turned off a more experienced woman would be by all his shenanigans. Horny Mom is an anomaly – and … come to think of it … he’s probably extremely grossed out by her – not because she’s “old” but because she’s a cliche.
But try to picture that chick in the opening sequence being ordered around by him and tolerating half the shit he throws at Patty – she’d be like “ew, you’re weird”. Patty has zero context for him.
I also love though that … she’s got some feistiness. she’s not intimidated by him. I don’t think she knows she should be. (that is, until she figures out he’s John Q). she’s just this sexually curious totally over-medicated … not even NERD because NERDS are INTERESTED in things – hahaha – she’s just in a state of arrested development.
but there’s something there he senses. that’s why it feels like – if Simon was, say, a murderer on a killing spree – she may very well have been open to THAT too. that’s how I thought the movie was going to go for a hot second. become a sort of punk rock Badlands.
// I LOVED that the first time he confronts the 2 tracksuit bullies, he gets his ass kicked, //
hahaha and she just stands there and watches, lol
yes – nice touch. He has the heroic white knight impulse but …
and the way he gets even with those guys is sooooo messed up. and a total steal from Heathers.
// I had no idea what was going on. Why does he prepare the gasoline BEFORE things go wrong with the family? Why does he even do that, it doesn’t seem personal? //
hahahaha
I know! he just rampages through that house. for no reason. I mean, the brother and dad are awful so there’s that but yeah he had no idea that would be the case when he walked through the door.
I LOVE that he attacks the brother WITH THE CHICKEN. I don’t know why, but it made me so happy. Same when he just THROWS the cup of cold coffee in the sink – dude WHY
I know! so ridiculous.
Throwing the cup for no reason … you really stuck it to the man there!
// hahaha and she just stands there and watches //
She’s so passive. “There’s a dead cat.” “I just got fired.” “Oh, some guy taking a hot liquid shit in the alley while I drink from my fucking juice box.”
hahaha my god, girl, wake up!
//Throwing the cup for no reason … you really stuck it to the man there!//
He needs to take it down a notch
I mean, 20 minutes into the movie I wanted to throw her fucking juice boxes onto a bonfire.
// because that young woman admires his art so much she thinks it’s hot enough to masturbate to. //
yessss and also – if she’s been fantasizing about him, then HE’S been fantasizing about HER – he says something along those lines. ‘do you have any idea how worked up those photos got me?” and that it’s HER – with her shit-stained apron and cluelessness is soooooo hilarious. he has to get his head around it. he needs a minute.
and then he hears her sing and forget about it, they’ll be together the rest of their chaotic days.
//that it’s HER – with her shit-stained apron and cluelessness is soooooo hilarious. he has to get his head around it. he needs a minute.//
haha, understandable. Even just thinking about that movie makes me laugh out loud, and I’ve been laughing thinking about it ever since I saw it.
//and then he hears her sing and forget about it, they’ll be together the rest of their chaotic days.//
I was DONE. Like, crying, because I’m an emotional dumdum. He is so vulnerable in that moment, it was almost hard to watch. (have I said how much I love Gallner yet?)
Oh I was an absolute mess watching him listen to her sing. He has to completely fall madly in love with her – like GAGA – the depths of his soul is touched – and you can see all of that on his face.
// Imagine how turned off a more experienced woman would be by all his shenanigans. //
Turned off, or wanting to tame him, to set him straight. Patty doesn’t want to FIX him. She just lets him be.
also … I think it’s pretty cool that she may have no sexual experience with men but she has experience with HERSELF sexually. lots of it. the movie sort of positions that in a very interesting way – and also a refreshing way. it’s this thing she does, she does it all the time, and it’s her thing. she doesn’t angst about it. like, big whup, she’s never had sex, fine, but she is pretty much fully sexually activated and actualized – and she’s done it all on her own and she is not at ALL neurotic about it.
it’s pretty cool. like, she actually DOESN’T have any sexual hangups. like, at all.
this is something you’d never expect just by looking at her.
it’s disarming. I don’t think he quite knows what to do with it.
Yes, and it’s kind of a miracle, given the environment in which she grew up, and stopped growing up in. It’s probably because she’s so oblivious, she kind of forgot to have shame, haha Good for her!
// it’s disarming. I don’t think he quite knows what to do with it. //
Yeah. She really IS weird.
yeah it almost helps her that literally everyone sees her as a sexless amoeba. because basically being ignored means she has all this interior space to fantasize and listen to punk rock and nobody is even paying attention – and she’s not DOING it for attention. she doesn’t do ANYthing for attention.
she’s so weird! I adore her.
// because I couldn’t see how these two could possibly end up together. Until they did. //
I know!!
really good script.
also I mentioned this in my review – the way she says his name – it’s actually a little annoying. “simon?” before she says anything. she’s so used to being ignored and not considered – so she has to say his name to get his attention (or she just likes saying his name). Like, I would eventually get annoyed by this and be like “Patty – I’m right here, I’m listening – you don’t have to keep saying my name like that.”
but what I love so much – is he is NEVER annoyed by it. He just stops, and waits. says “yeah?” like, “I’m here, I’m listening.” he gets that she needs that. not once is he annoyed.
to me, this is the most romantic thing in the whole movie. it’s so specific.
//lso I mentioned this in my review – the way she says his name – it’s actually a little annoying. “simon?”//
I didn’t notice, but that must have played into why she was annoying to me – I’m not known for my patience, I sure wouldn’t be as patient as him. Like, WHAT? haha
//he is NEVER annoyed by it. He just stops, and waits. says “yeah?” like, “I’m here, I’m listening.” //
I’m gonna pay attention to that. Must be because he prefers any kind of weirdness to socially acceptable stuff.
I would totally be so annoyed if someone kept saying my name to get my attention when I am already listening to you.
But he never betrays even a moment of it.
He seems to get her. He’s cynical about everything. But she’s … pure, in a way. not sexually – just … not a phony, she is what she is – and for him that’s rare. maybe something like that.
// the way she says his name – it’s actually a little annoying. “simon?” before she says anything. //
OK, so she only starts doind that after they get close. Imagine, it must feel so unreal, all of a sudden, a man who sees her, who says don’t call her a retard, who say yeah I’ll take you to the rock concert. She can’t fucking believe it, probably.
It’s like a verbal “pinch me, I’m dreaming” but no, he keeps answering.
My heart
my heart too!
Yes, she can’t believe it! her life is suddenly the best thing ever. she’s never had fun before!
“Simon?”
Pause. Him: “yeah?”
she tosses the ball to him and he actually tosses it back.
So maybe I’m reading too much into it, but when they’re in the kitchen just after they met and he tells her “I owe you one, think about it”, he could be talking about moving a couch or whatever, but he’s also being sexual, so of course, it’s also about sex. But the way he offers it almost sounds like… he’s like “hey, if the price of escaping the cops is popping your cherry, I’m game, I can do you a solid, girl.” I don’t think he’s that into her yet, but I think maybe he keeps bringing up fucking because she DID invite this wild stranger in her home, and when he tells her to remove her glass and shake her hair, she DID. And so maybe he’s like, eh, not my type really but if she’s into it, I can help.
Both his intent and his approach is so different to how he was with Horny Mom.
Interesting. yeah. I think definitely there’s a “I can definitely help you with that” thing – “Have you ever played F-U-C-K?” hahahah so stupid.
and he liberates the BROTHER too – I love that kid. he’s so funny too – everyone’s kind of trapped by their control conditioning.
it’s weird though – like in his own way he is a cliche too. the rich kid playing grungy rock star and working class hero. he’s fighting AGAINST that.
But SHE … she manages to not be a cliche AT ALL. I don’t think much surprises him anymore. but she does.
and yeah – Horny Mom he’s kind of doing it like “oh what the hell why not your husband sucks , your daughter thinks I should be doing this to her, your life is a nightmare let me fuck it up even more”.
// Horny Mom he’s kind of doing it like “oh what the hell why not your husband sucks , your daughter thinks I should be doing this to her, your life is a nightmare let me fuck it up even more”.//
Definitely. He sees Bill and his son and he’s like, “those assholes need to take it down a notch.”
// it’s weird though – like in his own way he is a cliche too. the rich kid playing grungy rock star and working class hero. he’s fighting AGAINST that. //
Yes, but usually the cliche is that those guys are just pretending. Whereas he doesn’t really get to profit from the material comfort of that rich family, he’s persona non grata – and something tells me that’s been the case for a long time. People change and can become idealistic, but I feel like the people truly allergic to hypocrisy and injustice always have had that in them, and unless you’re very lucky to grow up in an unconventional family, it puts you at odds with everything, and with family, for sure.
I’m projecting, obviously, but I know I got beat up by my parents and punished by me teachers when I was very little, just because I dared to question WHY. Don’t just tell me to do or not do something – I need CONTEXT. And when you grow up and realize that most of the time, there is no good reason and it’s a matter of control, well, fuck that, like Simon says.
I’m sorry that happened to you. and yes, fuck that.
it’s interesting though that they kept his room there for him. untouched. like they’re hoping he’ll come back? there is clearly no love lost with any of them – the sister was just wretched. what a narc.
// feel like the people truly allergic to hypocrisy and injustice always have had that in them, //
totally.
and then think about Patty saying she remembers him took a musical appreciation class they took at community college?? she says it once and it never comes up again. is that real?
he gave college a try? they were in a class together? It’s impossible to picture. This guy is the epitome of “does not play well with others.”
// it’s interesting though that they kept his room there for him. untouched. like they’re hoping he’ll come back? //
My read is: it’s like cheese on a rat trap. They’re hoping he’ll comply. Having a punk kid doesn’t look good, and people with status care about how they look.
they are clearly so status conscious. the brother was kind of nice if I recall?
he’s kind of like Jack Black in School of Rock – his “purity” about music is a kind of snobbery – like if you’re not totally authentic you’re a poser (it’s a very 90s attitude, so maybe that’s why it’s so familiar to me). I think Gen Z has a similar vibe – like, they can spot fakery from 20 miles away and they are VICIOUS in rejecting it.
so Simon causes a SCENE with his horrible band mates because they have agreed to do this show which he considers to be an absolute betrayal of all of his ideals – like, becoming successful in a mainstream or monetary way would be totally against his principles.
this is like the Kurt Cobain problem. what do you betray when you take the money? which, ultimately, is what Simon rejects – even her working at the pet store is a kind of slavery he can’t abide.
the whole capitalist system stinks. that line – “you have to go to prison to get a good dinner in america”.
the movie has a real POINT to make about the “system” and its soullessness but it does it with humor. Super impressed by it. it has a lot of flexibility, I think – it gets a LOT done.
It’s so great to re-watch knowing the writer/director also edited it. The comedic tempo is so great. This exchange between three men is so stupid and funny (Norm is ALLERGIC)
What’s ugali?
Don’t worry about it.
[Sneeze]
I’m laughing so much
“don’t worry about it”
dying
I love her line reading after she bumps into the drums. He says “are you okay?”
she says something like “I just hurt my arm ….. and also my ribs …”
I don’t know why, I fucking die.
That first kiss scene is incredible, even though it’s fairly simple. It really took me by surprise the first time I saw it – I didn’t think he was going to, for some reason. And then we’re set up for a cute above-the-table kiss, and he’s like fuck that, and then we get a very hot kiss. Damn. Solid writing.
And she tells some tall tale to “fuck with him,” and he tells her to “take it down a notch.” They’re getting each other now, and finding their common language. His “I would not have guessed that” about her being a good kisser is great because it works on several levels: he also wouldn’t have guessed she was wild, or that he could let his anger go for a minute to let himself feel something else and start falling for her.
Oh, my heart!
Also, for the people who will wake up tomorrow and take a look at Sheila’s blog, and wonder what the fuck was going on, I just want to mention: yes, this is a lot, but Sheila is ok with it, this is moral support, ok?
Also, I don’t know if I’ve mention, my love for Kyle Gallner, so just in case I thought I’d let you know.
I know I’m imagining people showing up to my site and seeing that right nav and being like … what on earth is going ON.
well maybe it will encourage them to watch this movie!!
when he says to her “you need to take it down a notch” – that was the moment the movie really had my heart forever. It is so sexy – but such a perfect callback – just such good writing and he plays it so well. and it’s like in that moment suddenly they are total equals. he’s taking this thing that’s been said to squash her – and turning it into a COMPLIMENT.
how does Gallner do this?? it’s so good!
I love that the first kiss is not tentative. it’s hot af. and she is INTO. IT.
like, he doesn’t ease her into it. hahahaha << that's the cliche. that an inexperienced girl would need to be eased into it and treated gently blah blah. and of course yes, we want to be kind to one another blah blah but Patty is not like other people. I think it might be weird if he gently kissed her. she might start laughing or say something totally inappropriate or make some observation about how his tongue feels or something. when he comes at her, she is ready. and at that point she has no idea he's John Q!
“you need to take it down a notch”
My wild Window Boy man would do stuff like that for me. I wasn’t like Patty – I was a wild girl in a slip and combat boots – but I was carrying around some shit I didn’t need to be carrying. and he’d casually and crankily say something really profound – or he’d make fun of me in a way that would relax me TOTALLY because it wasn’t MEAN – or he’d make some out of the blue observation about something I was really insecure about – or had never even thought about. (“your armpits should win a beauty contest.” I’m sorry to be TMI but he said that to me and I was like “WHAT??” “I’m serious.” but he didn’t say it romantically. he said it sort of flat-affect, which made it even funnier.) he didn’t give me a pep talk – he didn’t position himself ABOVE me like that – the whole thing was so anarchic but also weirdly healing. like I really did let go of some shit and the process wasn’t angsty at all. It happened kind of automatically just by hanging out with him.
and – to be honest – literally nobody else could deal with either of us. Lord help anyone who tried to get involved with either of us. We were nightmares.
like he’d do stuff like “take off your glasses”. He’d order me around. I used to wear men’s suits – just to switch it up – with a tie and everything – and he’d see me walk into the bar or whatever and say “you look so fucking butch and I’m turned on right now Jesus Christ.” meanwhile, he was VERY macho. blue collar macho. turned on by me in a suit.
But then I cut my hair short once and he said, “Girls always cut their hair before they break up with people. You’re breaking up with me.” “No I’m not.” “You are. Your hair is short.” “I am not breaking up with you.”
again, other people could not deal with this kind of thing -especially in a romantic context – but it was just how it was with us. You don’t meet too many people like that who can tell you to “take it down a notch” and mean it as a compliment and YOU GET IT.
// I used to wear men’s suits – just to switch it up – with a tie and everything – and he’d see me walk into the bar or whatever and say “you look so fucking butch and I’m turned on right now Jesus Christ.” //
HOT.
The man from my past I’m talking about is someone I didn’t think about for a really long time. I started reminiscing about him after a comment I left here — I think when re-watched Supernatural, and talked about blue collar guys, and how when I see them portrayed well (which is RARE), I feel that moment of “HEY, I know that guy!
That guy was very screwed up, and although we couldn’t help each other, we were both such messes, at least we gave each other some love, for a while. And really good sex. And he was a macho too – and once I made him wear my underwear. I always laugh when I think Ben Edlund wrote this for Dean Winchester in The End. “And we kinda liked it.” hahaha
So young women’s sexuality is more complex than the way it’s usually portrayed, but so is men’s. We just don’t even get to hear about it (about straight men at least) all that often. What a shame.
// “And we kinda liked it.” hahaha //
YES.
// nd how when I see them portrayed well (which is RARE), I feel that moment of “HEY, I know that guy! //
I totally feel the same way you do.
and also feeling like … sometimes sex is just playing around. it’s not all that SERIOUS. or it doesn’t have to be. and it’s okay to not label things. If everyone’s consenting, who cares. I know this is hard – and we’re in a very label-heavy time right now – and I wasn’t trying to make a statement by wearing suits – I used to wear them in high school too. It was the New Wave era so there was a lot of fluidity in fashion and I never was into the girlie look, or heels or anything like that. and I never really questioned it. I guess I’m lucky? I didn’t have parents who were like “you should be wearing dresses”. My dad was like “can I please have my ties back?” and it was just not a big deal.
// I didn’t have parents who were like “you should be wearing dresses”. My dad was like “can I please have my ties back?” //
What a great family to have – a family of artists. I cracked up when I saw your sister’s post on IG not long ago, songwriters circle and it’s like 15 O’Malleys and one other guy, haha
hahaha yes! O’Malley songwriting circle!
the black sheep in our family are accountants.
although we love them too.
Oh yeah, I’ve obviously only had a few glimpses into that relationship (but I’m so into it, as you know – every mention of Window Boy I’m always like YEAH) but I can see the common dynamic: two weirdos accepting each other’s weirdness in a way that is tender and freeing, and that only weirdos can get, probably.
Was he the guy saying “oh I’m waiting for Sheila to stop ignoring me, shouldn’t be long”? haha
I’m so glad you had that in your life. Men can be so… men.
I’m realizing as we’re examining this movie’s relationship that it also reminds me of a relationship in my past – the only man who I never doubted loved me. That guy was head over heels for me, and he was a few years older – but I was a teenager, not legal, and he was a young adult, so it’s quite a difference at that age. He was cautious approaching me, and I think he was also a little intimidated by me – even though I was so shy, I was terrified actually. But also
wild and very horny, haha. And I barely had any sexual experience, but I was READY. So the first kiss was more shy than hot, but the rest was very “violate me,” to his surprise. Not to brag but I know I blew his mind, haha (he told me).
That’s the kind of complexity that can be missing in so many movies portraying the sexuality of young women: we can be shy and awkward and also very sexual and adventurous.
“oh I’m waiting for Sheila to stop ignoring me, shouldn’t be long”?
YES. that’s him. hahahaha
I blatantly ignored him and he just waited for me to get over myself.
like, if I were in HIS shoes, I wouldn’t have tolerated that!! so obnoxious!
// Not to brag but I know I blew his mind, haha (he told me). //
ha!! I LOVE it when they actually TELL you things like that. you can hang onto it!
// we can be shy and awkward and also very sexual and adventurous. //
so true. and there are men out there who are “here for that”. I think this movie is really refreshing and I think there’s a reason “the kids” are going ga-ga for it on Tik Tok – because these kinds of characters are rare – and the chemistry explored is authentic, not out of a cliche playbook.
we don’t have to suffer through a scene where she puts on lipstick and we suddenly realize she’s gorgeous. we don’t have to see her be all shy about sex – playing into the stereotype – no she asks him to put his “hand down my sweatpants” – lol – there’s such a nice LACK of neuroticism in the whole thing – and I think that’s really REALLY important right now when sex – particularly between men and women – has become this battleground, where even horniness is seen as suspect.
// – no she asks him to put his “hand down my sweatpants” //
“Is this provocative?”
“I don’t know WHAT that is?”
With his hand gesture, haha
Yes to all you’re saying! And that even as they get more and more into each other, it’s not perfect, it’s not linear, it’s still awkward AND not neurotic about it. How amazing.
I would buy that script if I could find it (I looked). I’d love to see what’s on the page versus what’s on screen – knowing how writer who know they’ll direct don’t need to write like screenwriters who sell their script, and since they had time to rehearse before shooting too. If you ever interview Adam Rehmeier, or meet him at a festival, or whatever… you know, if you can ask him? For a friend. A weird, awkward, horny friend who doesn’t hate Kyle Gallner.
that hand gesture is the best.
and she’s in her lumpy red sweatpants. it’s soooo funny
I wonder if the director is on Insta. the movie has an account – which I follow – but not sure if he’s on there too as an individual. I can ask Kyle. because I’m “friends” with him, don’t you know. lol
Right, to you he’s just “Kyle” haha
I just checked my Substack and last December I wrote “And Kyle “my name is Cassidy” Gallner is all grown up and hot, now? ”
I’m almost a little ashamed, but… also I stand by it
you love Kyle Gallner? I hadn’t noticed!!
I know, I’m a little shy about it, didn’t want to attract too much attention on the fact that I LOVE KYLE GALLNER. now I’m wondering if he started receiving weird DMs from young women haha
That scene with Kevin, my GOD it’s so funny. The face he makes when he whispers “vagina.” I’m CRYING with laughter. That whole cast is excellent.
I love Kevin so much. He becomes a stoner and a stud in a 24 hour period.
He’s as squashed as Patty!
I am sure now that this movie has really picked up steam on Tik Tok he’s hearing from all KINDS of people, for SURE.
The other day I heard the melon song (whatever it’s called) as a soundbite on Instagram, it was WILD.
Even before the writers’ strike I thought we might see an indie renaissance soon because streaming fucked the industry, many excellent writers are out of work, and everyone is fed up with the Marvel type of shit, and I think the sudden love for this weirdo story confirms we might be headed in that direction? Thoughts?
^^ I definitely agree.
Marvel tentpoles are done. the whole thing is exhausted now and they are starting to flop. this is good news for the industry.
we still need people to actually go TO the movies – which they will, but only for big events like Barbie and/or Oppenheimer. Or repertory theatres showing old movies – which are (bestill my heart) flourishing right now.
Like this fascinating piece from last week. I’m definitely watching that happen – particularly in New York – but there’s a very rich repertory theatre culture in LA too. this is good news.
streaming is almost a trap – it’s bad news for some releases – stuff is just dumped on these platforms like it’s “content” – and stuff gets sucked into the maw a week after it comes out. but a release like Dinner in America really works for streaming. You’d totally miss it in the theatre, but it will have a long shelf-life in streaming.
Okay I now can no longer keep up with this thread and it’s JUST US.
I am so happy. Thank you Lyrie. I really needed this!!! (this is not to say I’m done – just to thank you for leaping in so wholeheartedly.)
Hey, when a friend asks for support and knows what they need, if I can, I’m happy to help.
my country is in flames. thanks for the support.
“Fuck job hunting. Fuck China Hut, fuck America.”
That escalated fast, I don’t know how you got there, my dude! haha (although I understand the sentiment)
I’m basically live blogging my re-watch, it’s taking me forever ha
oh this makes me happy!
yeah that’s quite a leap. but it makes sense!
OK, he’s gonna tell her he’s John Q, now. Oh I’m so excited!
Skeggs is soooo funny. I love her!
“I just hurt my arm and … my ribs …”
she goes totally still for about 5 minutes!!
Oh man that scene is so perfect because it keeps subverting expectations, but isn’t flashy about it. The whole movie does it a lot (like he gets beat up by the idiots, etc) but in that scene it’s like micro surprise after micro surprise, until the climax of the scene, which manages to be genuinely funny, touching AND hot.
It’s the tits
“No, leave it on. Violate me.”
“Fuck me.”
hahahahaaa FFFFUCK i love this movie
“leave it on”
the obverse of “take your glasses off”
they’re both tops, lol. or bottoms, depending on how you look at it. which can be tough but can also hot.
“No, leave it on. Violate me.”
“Fuck me.”
How on earth does this film – and these actors – get away with this beauty??
// they’re both tops, lol. //
Nothing more beautiful than two people who can do both, together, letting things ebb and flow.
And how beautiful that they manage to make the reversed situation by the end of the movie completely believable.
What a gem this movie is – thanks again for the recommendation, and I hope this took your mind off things, a little bit. I’m off to bed now, but I’ll be there for… whatever comes next. <3
I’m so upset I wasn’t down in New York for the screening at the IFC . people were dressing up ! Cosplaying Simon and Patty! I just saw all the pics on the director’s Insta feed. and I had no idea that’s what the director looked like. for some reason it makes me so happy.
I know, the shit covered smock, ha!
I’m feeling proprietary which makes no sense. I feel like “I saw it first!!”
dumb. the more the merrier.
I’m very excited for Snack Shack, his new movie, and look who plays the mother: Gillian Vigman, who was soooo funny in Ask Jeeves, one of my favourite episodes of Supernatural season 10.
Oh God Clown College Colette!!
Another detail i love: in my Starsky & Hutch madness this past summer, I kept raving about the 70s directorial style, like the dramatic zooms, and they’re in that movie too! Which is completely out of fashion, but it works!
starsky & hutch is so worthy of madness.
I think dinner in america definitely has that anarchic feel of a 70s movie – as well as the attitude towards authority, which is highly skeptical and completely anti-social.
there’s so much convention – STILL – in cinema, particularly in rom coms.
I do feel like there have been a couple recently that seem like things are loosening up – it’s just that nobody has a feel for how to DO it anymore. will gluck does. and I looooved Anyone But You – which is more of your stereotypical rom com – gorgeous people in a gorgeous setting – but I also thought it was truly bonkers in many ways, with that ridiculous Shakespearean obviousness – like “oh, we’re on the same flight!” “oh we have the exact same group of friends even though we met randomly!” etc. Like, stop WORRYING about not being OBVIOUS. just BE obvious – and have FUN – because I miss rom coms! Glenn Powell is the torchbearer for this renaissance.
Dinner in America is way more subversive- but I’d love to see that kind of diversity in this genre. Let’s have your run of the mill rom com – but give us chemistry between the leads – and let’s subvert / invert / upend – let’s do it all. I also liked the recent Bros, too. classic rom com but super gay with explicit sex scenes and also one orgy. but the film also manages to be sweet and also moving.
These are all are rom coms but they are also rated R.
so …. progress?
I haven’t seen any of these – I should catch up. I remember enjoying the Bros teaser. I tend to love romantic comedy elements in genre stuff that drown it – but probably just because otherwise it’s usually too pink and sweet for my taste, whereas when there other stuff going on, like vampires or zombies or dark magic, you know the love story is going to be difficult.
And this movie is really the proof: I DO love romantic comedies, but I love my stuff best when it’s a little dirty – in every sense of the term.
// Glenn Powell is the torchbearer for this renaissance. //
Hey, I’m not sure how you feel about Glenn Powell. haha
yeah I haven’t made up my mind about Glenn Powell yet.
lol
Simon’s sister is such a cunt, and so is his niece. The sister is a little heavy handed, but it’s REALLY funny when it’s the kid being a complete asshole.
doesn’t the kid say something about DARE? “you look someone on my DARE pamphlet” – which is the nerdiest stupidest most goody-two-shoes way to say “you are on drugs.”
hahaha yeah, “Uncle Simon has dirty fingernails like the dopers in my DARE book” ok, kid, shut up
“the dopers in my DARE book”
such a hilarious line.