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Love it!
Hahahaha. That was brilliant. And puh-leeze with the apology, Tom. It’s too friggin’ late to save anything. Just go away.
Sheila, did you see the interview that went along with the pictures of Suri? Where Katie was going off about how people “can’t talk that way” about her and Tom? WHATEVER, Honey. You signed up for this freak show. You played a part in it. Don’t EVEN get all defensive and act motherly and kind and surprised that everyone is saying such meanie-weanie things about you and your alien boyfriend.
I haven’t read the interview yet – but the pictures of her look horrible. Like – that’s the best photo they could find of her for the cover of Vanity Fair??? They should have photoshopped the shit out of it (like they seemed to have done to the baby) – because Katie looks wan and drawn and that is a painful attempt at a smile.
I truly believe the chick is brainwashed and trapped, and living “under orders” from the Crooze-family. It’s like a Patty Hearst/Tania thing happening right before our eyes – only Katie isn’t robbing banks wearing a black beret.
Basically what I’m trying to say is: I don’t judge her at all. I just don’t. I look at Katie as an invalid right now. I think she’s had some of her critical thinking capabilities taken away – all of the influences coming in at her are filtered through HIM – and she has had the thoughts and opinions of CoS implanted.
It’s an interesting question as to why she succumbed so readily. This is something I’ve wondered about – not just with her but with other brainwashing cases. Why do some people succumb while others seem impervious? Scarlett Johanson took one look at what was being offered her and said, “Uhmmmmmm, no thanks.” Was something already a bit “amiss” in Katie’s personality? Maybe she was too sheltered? So she wasn’t able to protect herself from manipulation? Who knows. I don’t know the woman.
I wonder if Katie will ever have an “a-ha” snapping-out-of-it moment like Magoo had. I hope so.
I hear what you’re saying, Emily, but I don’t judge her at all. I judge him.
And I know I sound insane, but that baby looks photoshopped to me. That baby looks … weird. But I know I am so biased to think that the baby looks weird – so I am not a reliable witness at all.
Here’s what I think – and seriously, what the hell do I know, but here’s what I think:
I think that something was missing in Katie alREADY. Some brain-chip of critical thinking, of perspective, of SELF. Not everybody has that. Maybe she was overly protected by her parents. Maybe she had never come face to face with real manipulation and so didn’t recognize it when it was there. Also – there’s the fact that it was Tom Crooze manipulating her and his celebrity at that time was unchallenged. He was the biggest star in the world and he was showing interest in … her????? Maybe her head got turned. Maybe Scarlett Johanson had a good head on her shoulders already, and a little bit more experience with men (and also – had had a bit more success in the business – at least in films. Scarlett doesn’t “need” Tom for her career, she’s doing quite well already) – so that maybe Scarlett was able to keep her perspective a bit, even in the presence of the biggest star in the world who was courting her, and say, “This is not for me, thanks.” That takes a certain kind of person to do that. I think Katie was maybe a bit more mushy, a bit more susceptible, a bit more passive – alREADY. A perfect candidate for a cult recruitment. But again, I’m just guessing.
I think you’re right, Sheila.
Katie grew up in friggin’ OHIO. Her first major acting job was based in North Carolina. She hasn’t been through the “mill” that most young actors have, living in NYC and LA, surrounded by fake friends and hangers-on. She hasn’t built up the shell that comes from being betrayed and disappointed.
She was fresh meat for those freaks.
(And I think the baby looks like one of the “What if they had kids” things from Conan.)
I don’t necessarily judge her…her answer was a lock, stock Clam response. “How dare you judge me for acting like a complete freak while the whole world is watching?” The only thing that was missing was the standard “…and I’m insulted that you would even ask!!!!” It’s very clear that they “have” her now. Like you said, here’s hoping she snaps out of it and can salvage what’s left of her career in time.
Ultimately, everybody who gets duped by these sub-human creeps is a victim, so I try not to judge, but it still makes me pretty friggin’ angry that people fall for what is total and utter bullsh*t to the core.
I mean, there comes a point, too, when naivete is no excuse. Naivete is excusable in a small child – but you really need to grow up eventually. Take responsibility.
Did something in Katie not know this, somehow? Was she still a little girl emotionally, even though she was in her 20s? Scarlett Johansen is 20 years old – but she seems much more self-possessed and humorous than Katie H. did even when she wasn’t trapped in the Crooze-mobile.
Plenty of actresses come from tiny towns, and manage to have careers, and keep a good head on their shoulders, and even become stars – without falling prey to the minions of a cult!!
Emily – I know – it is SO transparent but people are morons and they still buy it!!! – if you ever go to Tom Crooze fan sites (and, uhm, I do, because this whole thing fascinates me so much that I can barely get to sleep at night) – it’s AMAZING to see how people just refuse to criticize this man. All the message boards are like:
“TomKat is in luuuuuv and all u people do is judge! Ur just jealous!”
Uhm – jealous? Of being trapped in a cult with black sores erupting over my face and giving birth to a turkey-baster baby and abandoning my career which was actually going pretty well?
Uhm, no. Not jealous.
JEALOUS is not the word for my emotions.
Totally uncritical acceptance of whatever the man says. It’s really wild – to me, it is so CLEAR what is going on – hahahaha – even though I am not personally involved. I can’t believe that other people can’t see it.
Oh – and how about Tom having Katie go to lunch the day before the magazine hit with her mother and her “mother in law” at Ivy – the biggest celeb lunch-hangout in Hollywood? Paparazzi stand outside that restaurant every day – and suddenly – Katie’s having a nice cozy lunch with both sides of the “family” there????
I guess I so just accept that nothing she does is of her own will anymore.
I can see him going, “Okay – I made a reservation at Ivy for 12 – let’s fly your mother in – you’ll all go – it’s all set.”
I just think Katie was more sheltered than most. She was the coddled youngest child of a wealthy doctor who was plucked from obscurity to play a role on a TV show in a small town in NC, where I’m sure she was coddled and protected, pampered and praised. She had only had one boyfriend in Hollywood, a relationship that was what? Five or six years long?
I’m not excusing her falling victim to a cult. She’s an adult. But it helps to explain why — when the bubble that had been protecting her (her parents, her show, her boyfriend) was gone — she would want ANY bubble back.
She’s probably never made any major decisions on her own. To all of a sudden have TOM! CRUISE! showering you with affection, and his minions making your decisions for you must have been a dream come true for her.
Which is the whole MO of cults anyway. They cull the herd of its weakest members.
It’s probably something a little simpler – remember, Katie used to have that poster of the Crooze and pretend to be married to him, etc. Now it’s real? Wow. I’m the luckiest (and naivest!) girl alive… And by the time she began to suspect that Tom did not, in fact, fart sunshine and rainbows, she was in too deep.
And, BTW, remind me again why I haven’t bookmarked WuzzaDem? Oh, right, me am moron.
Nightfly – I disagree with your thesis, I guess, and always have – I’ve heard people say that before, but I just think it misses the mark. Plenty of girls have posters of movie stars on their walls – and still are able to grow into an adult with critical faculties.
I adored Ralph Macchio with the passion of a thousand suns. Seriously. I ACHED for him. I DREAMT of him. He was the symbol to me of all that was good and right and awesome. But if I had then met him as a 26 year old – would I have jumped off a bridge for him? Would I have shaved my head and joined the Hare Krishnas if he asked me to? Would I completely cut myself off from my family? I don’t know – I imagine not – unless I was at a really weak place in my life … but even then: being at a weak place in my life has never (for me – I know it’s different for other people) made me susceptible to shit like this. I don’t fall in love with nasty men who treat me badly. I don’t join any faddish trend that comes along, to give me structure. It’s just not how I deal with vulnerability.
My thesis is that, for whatever reason, Katie lacked that sense of self – that hard core of “This is who I AM, whether I’m a star or not, whether I’m in a relationship or not”. Maybe Lisa’s right – she yearned for the bubble. The bubble of passivity – where all her choices are set out for her beforehand.
Nightfly,
One of the creepier aspects of this was that she was chosen by AUDITION to basically pump up Tom (when, to the detriment of her career, she was contractually obliged to promote her OWN projects) in the media. She was the “I’M NOT GAY” pawn. Shortly after all this started and the whole “he was my favorite actor growing up and I wanted to marry him” crap surfaced, somebody dug through a bunch of her old fan sites and did not find ONE mention of Tom Crooze among her “favorites.” Not ONE. The “I wanted to marry him” thing was a part of the package.
It’s really, really sad when you read things like how the cast and crew of Thank You For Smoking openly said they were relieved she didn’t show up to the premiere. SAD.
And Chris Klein made a comment like, “I have never before heard her mention that Tom Crooze was her favorite actor.”
I loved him for that. I mean – I loved him for just being in Election – but I loved his attempt to cut thru the bullshit.
Who’s going to be the Hollywood version of the little girl in The Emperor’s New Clothes when it comes to these Co$ creeps? Who’s going to be the person who says, “You people are FUCKED. UP.”
I vote for Alex.
Emily – member when the 3 of us went out to lunch and Alex said, dead serious, “One of my goals in life is to get a CoS-er to admit the truth to me about Xenu. I will not rest until I get a confession.” hahahahaha
No but seriously: she MEANS IT.
Matt Stone and Trey Parker already have.
Yeah, the fact that your average Joe on the street now “knows about Xenu” is thanks to that South Park episode. We also can thank Tom himself – for behaving in such an insane manner so consistently – that he called attention to his cult (not the way he had hoped for, though!)
Sheila,
Hahahaha. I know. But they won’t ever admit it because they’ve been brainwashed to believe anyone who isn’t ready will DIE if they hear it. Like remember when Jenna Elfman was covering the ears of the junior OT when she confronted that guy and he started talking about Xenu.
Um, HELL-O. It’s posted all over the internet. People talk about it every day…nobody’s spontaneously combusted or contracted a deadly disease after hearing it. It’s basically an episode of MSTK3, m’kay? I can’t imagine there’s a way to POUND this into these people.
Did you notice that all the people (minus Will and Jada Smith, unless I missed something and THEY’RE co$, which would KILL ME) who have “seen” Suri are fellow co$ers?
We’re just supposed to buy this crap? I mean, the mother of his other two children didn’t see this kid until AFTER the chick who played Dharma?
Lisa,
Clams are notoriously internalized…they tend to have very little social contact with people outside of the “church.” It’s one of the reasons they come off so crazy – because they spend so much time with other people equally as crazy in an insular environment where, eventually, it all just seems normal.
And Chris Klein made a comment like, “I have never before heard her mention that Tom Crooze was her favorite actor.”
THAT, I did not know. (Remember, me am moron.) I just thought that she never really outgrew that Teen Beat phase. Of course, in that case everything else y’all said would have to be true, too.
One of the creepier aspects of this was that she was chosen by AUDITION to basically pump up Tom (when, to the detriment of her career, she was contractually obliged to promote her OWN projects) in the media.
Yikes. That looks a lot worse for her.
My first impulse is to try to think as well of someone else as I can, usually because the few times I’ve strayed from that impulse, I’ve been spectacularly and embarassingly wrong. I’d rather take a knock or two than give them out unfairly, I suppose. Had no idea about this.
Heh, I’m spectacularly and emarassingly wrong anyway. Own-goal. Forgiveth me Xenu!
I know – and how about that collagen-lipped brainwashed Leah Ramini and her defensive comments: “Yeah, I’ve seen her. She pees in her diaper. She’s a normal baby. Whatever.”
Like: why are you so ANGRY, Leah? Don’t you realize how transparent it is?
Emily and Lisa:
I know – it always strikes me as pathetic – that insular “we can only deal with each other” thing. They speak in that weird Hubman shorthand …
I do wonder about Will and Jada – Emily, do you have any word on them??
I have never heard of them being Co$ members. They don’t strike me as the type, but I don’t doubt Tom has tried to recruit them.
And the Hubman speak kills me. “Enturbulate.” Screw off, people. That is NOT a friggin’ WORD, okay? Have you ever seen the video of that guy being confronted by 2 Clams where he tells them that to their faces and they’re like “oh yes it is a word.” How absolutely empty-headed do you have to be.
No, sorry, dude. According to the Oxford unabridged dictionary of the English language, enturbulate is NOT A @#$%ING WORD.
Nightfly – and about that audition: yes, there were 5 young actresses who were also asked to “audition”. Jessica Alba, Scarlett, Katie Holmes and a couple others. All up and coming actresses. It was under the guise of an audition for MI 3 – but that was just a ploy, a ruse. Scarlett Johansen (I love her) arrived for her “audition” – and it was at the CoS celeb center – and she was taken into a big banquet room filled with people. All waiting to welcome her (or – recruit the shit out of her.) Scarlett walked out. Something wasn’t right and she walked out. She didn’t make a big scene – but she obviously extricated herself. Katie obviously did not.
One recruitment technique they talk about is called “love bombing” – and even the strongest person has a hard time resisting it. You bomb someone with love. You do not do the hard sell. You just love them, and love them, and love them … Katie got sucked into that. They probably love-bombed her into submission.
That’s why I say: something in her had not developed. That survivalist instinct of: “Hm. Even though it’s flattering to have Tom Crooze contact me and fly me here and yadda yadda – something doesn’t feel right and I’m outta here.”
I also have my own opinions about why the f*** Tom Crooze so desperately needs a beard RIGHT NOW … and why he had to pretend that Katie Holmes was the love of his life (uhm – beard) but that descends us into serious conspiracy theory land and I’ll just keep my silence. I have faith that the truth will eventually come out. I don’t know why I do – but I do.
Emily – hearing those Hubman lecture tapes are truly a biZARRE experience. He appears to be speaking English … but it. is. not. English.
And then you hear all the laughter in the audience when he makes a “joke” … it’s creepy!!
And they deliberately lured Johansen into a room that was uncomfortably warm…a classic cult technique. I had a really “good for her attitude” until she showed up in some interview after the stories broke about her “escape” basically defending clams by saying she had friends that were clams and didn’t have anything against them.
Read a bit, Scarlett. If you have a soul, you WILL have plenty against them.
Member the nervous titters of laughter when Jon Stewart made the CoS joke at the Oscars? That cult has a stranglehold on that town – even now. It’s not just Tom Crooze who’s involved in that damn organization – studio heads, and agents, and blah blah – the people who REALLY run that town. It’s scary.
I don’t know – from out here it looks like they have really taken a beating over this past year – but I have no idea what it looks like from the looking-glass world inside that cult.
It does. People are pretty afraid to cross them. Like Alex mentioned that afternoon, it’s not just the looney actors or the faces we recognize that you have to contend with. It’s producers, directors, etc. People with the power to decide if you get to WORK or not.
And now I’m remembering one of the Jenna Elfman stories and am getting FURIOUS.
She is truly insane. A true believer who doesn’t have enough fame to hide her insanity (Tom Crooze got away with it for years because he was handled so well). She is barely handled. She’s so nuts.
And completely stupid, to boot. This is a woman, after all, who was put off initially by Co$ because Diahretics was “too big.”
How ’bout her saying that when she meets an SP now – they “scurry away” from her.
Yeah – that’s cause you’re batshit, bitch, not because you’re so enlightened that they fear the bright light of your Truth.
Yes, Jenna. As an SP I can tell you that I fear you, but not for the reasons you think.
Have you ever read the inane ramblings in her “my letter to you” page at her official website? I especially love the one about human rights. “Did you know you HAVE HUMAN RIGHTS and that they are like totally OFFICIAL and stuff?” Then she links to the Universal Declaration site. Um, honey, those are very lovely and everything, but they’re not “official.” There is no way to have an “official” global initiative like that, at least not in the sense that’s enforcable.
Yes, I have seen her site. It’s truly nuts.
Wow – I have human rights? Who knew???
But Jenna: I take an antidepressant. So … does that mean I am a victim of the EVIL psychiatrists who are trying to take over the world??
Uhm, no. It means I thank God that I live in a time that the technology is such that I can take a pill to help me out with depression. THANK YOU, GOD.
I’m so SP I don’t even know what to do with myself.
Wait a sec!! Ralph Macchio is a Hare Krishna?! Dang, I miss all the important news…
… and can I say when Emily and you go on rants about that cult on either blog, I just love to sit back and enjoy the banter (Though, between your two blogs and Alex’s, I’ve been enlightened about a cult that truly should be exposed by a 60 Minutes or 20/20 type show… does no one have the guts to go after them? Not even someone like John Stossel?)
JFH – Time magazine wrote a huge expose about them in 1991 – and I think they were buried in litigation for 10 years?? Some outrageous amount of time. Very few people want to risk a situation like that – and very few companies have the big bucks to risk that kind of litigation.
But it seems to me like – thanks to Crooze-missile – all of that is loosening. Co$ is no longer in charge of its own information. The INternet has allowed it all to be “out there”. And now it’s just in the air … the secrecy that they DEPEND on is dissolving.
However – it’s no joke. There’s a reason why we never put the actual WORDS on our site. We do not want these fuckers coming after us. They mean business, and they play dirty.
If I recall correctly, I think the authors of the Time article were personally harassed as well. It’s one of the most frustrating aspects of this cult – that we’re basically helpless to do anything. If more people knew what was going on, they’d be put out of business and Shorty McCultmaster would be in prison. I *need* to see that man in handcuffs in my lifetime. NEED it.
Then there are the people who defend them in the name of tolerance or whatever. Or the anti-religious zealots who will say believing in Xenu isn’t a bigger leap than believing in Jesus. These people make me ANGRY, mostly because they are opining on a subject they obviously know NOTHING about. I wish more people would get it through their heads. It is not what they believe. It is what they DO. If it were just a matter of believing in Xenu and thetans, I’d dismiss it. Whatever. But it’s not.
Yup. Great point, Emily. You can believe whatever you want. Believe in inherent goodness of the north wind fairy – I don’t care. That’s not my problem with these folks. That was one of the things I didn’t like about the South Park episode – the whole “THIS IS WHAT SCIENTOMOGISTS ACTUALLY BELIEVE” bit. yes, I know it’s funny, Xenu, warlord, overpopulation, hahahaha – BUT – the case against them is weakened if we focus on the “silliness” of their beliefs.
It is, like you said, their tactics. I always focus on that – not the “ho ho ho isn’t it funny about Xenu” thing – because that, for me, is not what it is about.
Lisa McP was a believer. Whatever, that’s fine. What happened to her is NOT fine.
Yeah, that’s kind of why I’m of two minds when it comes to Fr**z*ners. On the one hand, they’ve broken away because they disagree with some of the more questionable tactics of the “church” and I can respect that, but at the same time, everything Hubman wrote was rubbish. It’s complete and utter horse poo. He was a terrible writer, his “theories” are stupid and in some cases, bad for your health and he was an awful, awful man on so many levels. So in a way, I think it’s a bit like saying “well, I wouldn’t join the Nazi Party, but that Hitler sure was a great guy.”
Yeah – I’m sure you’ve seen some of the videos of Magoo talking after she “got out” – and she was still saying, “This is all about communication!” Basically she was saying: Hubman was all about good communication – and the organization has morphed into something that is not about that.
But that’s crap – he was NOT “all about good communication”. Enturbulate?
I think she was still using all that language – mainly because she had spent 30 years of her life in that damn cult and had just busted out. You can’t undo the damage overnight.
I love how she said she basically snapped out of it because of a kind letter she received from Andreas H-L. Clams are probably taught that he’s Xenu incarnate or whatever…so it was surprising to her to get a nice letter from him when she was basically responsible for spamming message boards with hundreds of gigs of gibberish to slow them down. And then BOOM! The haze is lifted. It’s a truly wonderful and inspiring story, especially given how long she was in.
That’s another thing – I used to argue with clams when they showed up to try and defend themselves and it is VERY frustrating. They have no capacity for logical thinking whatsoever and will flat out ignore any facts that don’t suit them. Somewhere, there’s a great article called “how to talk to a [clam]” and it explains that you cannot argue with them. You cannot hope to get them to admit to save their life that any of this crap is just WRONG. They argue with distorted information and immediately go on the attack. Andreas had the right idea. Just be kind and make sure that they know there are places where they can get help should they ultimately decide to leave. That’s the best way to trigger the SNAP.
It is such a moving story. She was like: wait … isn’t he the devil? Why is he being helpful??
And lo and behold – he was there on the other end for her when she got out.
Incredible.
He was a terrible writer
Hmmm, maybe that’s why he got into the cult business he knew he couldn’t compete with Asimov, Clarke and Heinlein, or even Bradbury and Herbert. Take the easy way, create your own cult so that you can be a “cult figure”.
I don’t know how you guys can say he wasn’t a good writer. HE TYPED 94 WPM!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow. Isn’t that, like, the FASTEST EVER?
Nightfly –
NO ONE IN THE HISTORY OF THE PLANET HAS EVER TYPED FASTER.
As a general rule, you can pretty much name any talent, skill, training, and ability and according to Clams (and himself while he was alive) he was the BESTEST! IN! THE! WORLD! EVER! at it.
Dude, he was the youngest Eagle Scout ever. You just cannot deny that fact.
So I have to say that I was *literally* HAPPY when I got to the end of the post. Because I could then see 50+ comments for me to read. Ann Marie’s inner voice: “Huzzah! Here go Sheila & Emily on a 2 way rant about Co$. Good times.”
However, I do feel like the kid who moved to town, oh, like 4 weeks ago. I know some of the words/abbreviations, but not all of them. I need a primer.
I do remember reading something (I’m sure I got to this source from some link on this blog) that discussed differences between religion vs. cult. What resonated with me: one of the key differences between dismissing Co$ because their beliefs are “silly” compared to say, Christianity, is this: you can walk into ANY Christian church and they will say, “this is what we believe.” Co$: not so much. One of the key manipulations here is that they make you sign up for their courses and treatments and PAY to have the “truth” revealed. That’s evil.
he was the BESTEST! IN! THE! WORLD! EVER! at it.
Hmmm, In a cage match (or a golf match) between Kim Jung Il and Elron (geez, you’ve even got me making up pseudonyms for the OTHER “dear leader”), I wonder who would win.
Ann – yay for cult bashing on this here blog! hahahahaha
Yeah – Co$ is a bait and switch operation – it depends on secrecy so that it can lure people in, telling them they “need” it – and then people just end up paying thru the nose for … booklets and classes … but the higher-ups will never ever tell you what it is all about. You have to come “see for yourself”. How many times has Mr. Crooze said that over his last year? “If you want to know more – come find out for yourself …” etc. Which is lovely, in theory – but in this context it’s kinda sinister.
Or – evil. Yeah – I’ll go with evil!!
You’re so right to not want them to come down on you – I work for a UK women’s mag and we did a real life story about a girl who escaped from them – we had people sitting in reception for WEEKS waiting to talk to our editor while she sneaked out the back door. Properly frightening. They just wanted to ‘ talk to her’ about it, apparently. They weren’t carrying baseball bats or anything but the ed was pretty freaked out – she even got letters to her home address. I have no idea of her home address and I’ve worked here 2 years – how the hell did they get it?? so, so strange…
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