I had hoped to get the “Born Under a Bad Sign” re-cap up today, but had a couple of work things I had to do – all good stuff that I’m excited about, but time-consuming. I should probably work on timing my re-caps better so they don’t conflict with the current season, but whatever, that’s too high-maintenance. In any case, here’s the open thread for tonight’s episode.
I won’t be watching tonight but will catch up with you all later!
waiting with bated breath – one of my favourite episodes :o)
Erin – yay, that makes me feel happy to hear. It’ll be up sometime today!
Cheers!
Based on previews, I was prepared to not like this ep but the look and the squick factor was old school Supernatural. So atmospheric and creepy. Great little details like the flowers scattered down the halls that Kit’s wife was gathering up, which appeared romantic at first glance and then they flash on the creepy ass monster drinking from the vase. Also, that shot of the fog as they rolled into town was so memorable. How can you not love a beautiful shot of the Impala?
Also love how the MOTW episodes tie back to the broader themes, here of salvation and hope. Ugh, Sam saying it’s too late in the end. One beef – Cole with his Dean-o’s and Sammy Boy’s. Nails on a chalkboard.
Paula, I feel the same about the Dean-O and Sammy boy. I was waiting for Sam to say “Only Dean gets to call me that” ugh. I can’t quite put my finger on way, but the whole Cole character bugs me. I’ve also always thought SPN needs to steer clear of using the military, they don’t do it well, at least in my opinion ( I can’t help it) it helps with the suspension of disbelief if they can at least get the small details right.
For the first time in 200+ episodes I found a scene too much – cutting the throat of the female soldier as she was hanging upside down so her blood could drain into the bucket.
That scene was pretty brutal – and to use it as an episode opener (especially after a fairly lighthearted flashback montage).
It was so scary – especially the full-body shot of her upside down from down the hallway. Very upsetting.
I haven’t seen it yet, but I’m already thrilled because it’s named after one of my favorite books, basically required reading in the O’Malley family! If you say you haven’t read it (or Going After Cacciato, O’Brien’s other most famous book), you are greeted with super-annoying gasps of despair.
Thanks for the link to your review, & Gasp! Never read that book. Just the first few sentences from the excerpt drew a very clear picture for me. Some of the descibed items would’ve found their way into my rucksack; although I served several years after the Vietnam conflict ended some things are universal to soldiers everywhere. Sterno! The friggin’ mermites with hot chow (refused always to eat the eggs, yes they were greenish) PRC-77 (pronounced prick 77 cuz you know, guys) Someone who’s wife has served recently brought up a term I hadn’t heard forever – BCG’s (birth control glasses) the military issue glasses. Yes, somethings never go away. So anyway I am ordering that book! Always happy for a good book recommedation. May I say, I’m glad I served in the desert and not the jungle.
Kim – I’m thrilled to pass on the recommendation to you then! Going After Cacciato is a Vietnam novel, while “Things They Carried” is a series of short stories/essays – both are wonderful.
The second I heard that the title of this episode was “The Things They Carried” I knew that Cole would be featured and that it would be about the military/prob-ly PTSD.
// May I say, I’m glad I served in the desert and not the jungle. //
I can totally understand that.
Hope this is OK to drop here.
This video has been making the rounds; an “historical recreation” starring Misha and Jensen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqAcBYUgkFM
That was a very fun & silly thing! I love that kind of stuff. What cast of any other show gives their fandom so much fun? (Outlander is pretty good about sharing fun stuff but it isn’t the cast horsing around)
Pat, I never knew I needed to see that until it started making the rounds this week! Funnier than it has a right to be–and I love Misha’s twitter comment that they are “very busy, important people”. Thanks.
As for the show itself, I enjoyed it very much! I agree, it had a season 1-4 feeling to it, and I actually quite like Cole. He seems to fit well in this world, and I find myself invested in finding out how his attitudes will develop with regards to hunting and the Winchesters. Plus, he has a family–the show could potentially work out some very interesting comparisons between Cole and John if they want to. Yeah, the “Deanos” and “Sammy Boys” got a bit thick, but the actor just made the nicknames seem natural–sort of how Dean almost always nicknames both adversaries and friends. How long did it take Dean to start calling Castiel “Cas”?
I also loved the fact that this episode genuinely creeped me out! For the first time in a long time, Supernatural felt like a horror show.
I liked the nicknames. Some people are just nickname kind of people – it can be obnoxious but it can also be a way to ask for friendship/intimacy – which is what Cole was trying to do. I didn’t mind it at all and didn’t think it was creepy. I totally understand why Sam didn’t balk at it the way he did with Gordon – Cole doesn’t have the same creep-factor that Gordon has.
Finally saw the episode today. The Dean-os and Sammy-boys were a bit much. I kinda wanted to slap Cole. Though, to be fair, I think that about a lot of people…
Given the lighthearted flashback montage (as Natalie pointed out), I was expecting the episode to be funnier. I’m not complaining–I almost always want a funny episode–but it was unexpected. This is the first time I can remember this sort of tonal clash between montage and episode. Way to mess with my expectations, SPN!
// Though, to be fair, I think that about a lot of people… //
hahahaha
I feel like the episode might have worked better if it was more comedic. There was something rather lugubrious in the tone.
There was a lot I liked though – which is usually the case.
Ok, yesterday I was cranky, so my lede comment reflected that, but I’m still creeped out by the teaser. On further reflection it is a not a bad episode and I like that they brought up the issue of how deployment changes people. They’re probably not bringing home physcial monsters like the khan worm, but many bring home heavy burdens. Not everyone who deploys encounters terrible violence but the stress, the pressure, the constant threat of violence takes a toll as well. This is a little close and maybe too on the nose, if so I apologize, my daughter deployed to Iraq and came back another person. It is easy for me to see parallels here.
On a slightly lighter note, that was a very good baby, too bad Eastwood couldn’t have used her for American Sniper (I liked that movie because it was a good story about a guy)
Kim – The worm did work as a good metaphor for how deployment changes people. And how nobody can really understand.
For me, the most devastating scene in American Sniper was when he called her from the bar. I can totally understand where he was coming from – although I have never been deployed myself – but the film helped that make sense for me. He couldn’t go home. He couldn’t do it.
There was a lot of American Sniper going on in this episode, I thought – with the wives and the babies and the nice little houses and the missing men.
I thank you and your daughter for your service. These issues can hit very close to home.
Thoughts on watching for the first time:
OH MY GOD THOSE CREEPY CRAWLY WORMY THINGS WERE SO DISGUSTING!!!!!
Fog – yes!
lovely baby – yes yes yes! I was just desperate for the bros to reach out and cuddle him. Not to be :-(
teaser – shocking.
Good to see Cole again. He wasn’t quite finished business.
First ten minutes or so – loved it. Kept thinking ‘please do not screw this up’ and generally the episode kept on course, even with the appearance of squicky worms (eeeeewwwww!).
Thought the wives were awesome.
Sam’s feelings at the end – ‘I couldn’t save him!’ – so Season 2! Waaah!
I thought all the Deanos and Sammys were quite funny. Cole has a peculiarly privileged relationship with the Winchesters and the fact that they don’t call him out on all the nicknames seems to indicate that they recognise this.
Kim, I appreciate your thoughts on this episode, and thank you for sharing them. Watching this episode with your daughter having been deployed to Iraq must given you a very particular perspective. I found the teaser truly shocking. Not Supernatural’s usual style. Any show that deals with veterans and the effects of combat has to be super careful and get things right, even if it’s taking a more fantastical spin on the effects of deployment.
Helena, yesterday I was cranky, this morning I was moody and overthinking things. My daughter did come home changed but at least she is whole. I have a lot of thoughts about the way we treat our veterans and I know this isn’t the forum to express them. Let’s just say that if more of the politicians that are so eager to send our soldiers into harm’s way had more skin in the game, (like maybe their own kids) then we wouldn’t have been at war for the last 13 years.
I haven’t done an episode rewatch yet so I’m still expressing initial impressions from the episode. Besides I’m much more interested in everyone’s thoughts on Born Under a Bad Sign, a better episode.
//lovely baby – yes yes yes! I was just desperate for the bros to reach out and cuddle him. Not to be :-(//
I’m pretty sure the only way Sam would willingly hold a baby would be if he had to rescue it. Dean might be a little more willing, if there were a hot woman he wanted to impress.
// I’m pretty sure the only way Sam would willingly hold a baby would be if he had to rescue it. Dean might be a little more willing, if there were a hot woman he wanted to impress. //
Natalie – Ha!
Helena –
// Cole has a peculiarly privileged relationship with the Winchesters and the fact that they don’t call him out on all the nicknames seems to indicate that they recognise this. //
Yes! That’s what I felt, too.
They also feel somewhat responsible for him. Or Dean does, because he killed his dad, and had that killer fight with him in the alley. Cole tries to manage his feelings about these guys by nick-naming them up – which is a character trait of a certain kind of tough guy. Dean and Sam seem to recognize that and understand that.
And yes: those worms were nasty.
Okay – now that I’ve had time to watch the episode more closely, I think I really liked it. In particular, I’m starting to really like Cole. The Dean-os and Sammys actually didn’t bother me. It felt more organic to the character than, say, Gordon calling Sam Sammy. Gordon was being manipulative, and co-opting Dean’s nickname for Sam as a way to get between them. I would bet Cole gives nicknames to everyone he interacts with. It wasn’t a threatening thing like it was with Gordon. Also, I love the fact that Cole assimilated new information (the Winchesters save lives), and adjusted his beliefs and actions accordingly! We need more people in the world who can do that!
Other things I loved:
The khan worm/PTSD metaphor
The mention of VA waiting lists (a real and very serious problem that I will refrain from lecturing about)
The fact that Dean knew all along that it wasn’t porn, but still couldn’t resist the “not where we eat” joke
The fact that they ate at Sammy’s Highway Cafe
Sam and Dean’s exchange at the end
Dean’s looks of longing at the cake, and sneaking a lick of the frosting – such a 3-year-old thing to do
Things I question:
We’re those really khan worms? Seems like a bit of a faulty assumption since, other than the fact that they were worm-shaped and could be killed by stepping on them, they bore no similarity whatsoever to the S6 khan worms.
Wouldn’t there be some jurisdictional issues with feds coming in on what was essentially a military case?
Oh my gosh, yes, Sammy’s Highway Cafe!! That neon sign was brilliant. Also, I kind of want to eat there. It looked like a fun joint.
// I would bet Cole gives nicknames to everyone he interacts with. It wasn’t a threatening thing like it was with Gordon. //
Totally agree.
It was very good to have a joke about porn again! I’ve missed the presence of porn in the show, which just goes to show you I have lost my mind. Again.
The cake frosting behavior was hilarious. The second Dean saw the cake, he stopped paying attention to anything else.
And yes, I flagged that too: The military handles their own cases, as I understand it.
Oh, and Fayatteville – I know it’s a military town – Fort Bragg and everything – which also makes me think of Jeffrey MacDonald. Too many true crime books. I can’t help it.
Am I the only one who found these two sweaty guys alone in their cabin kind of erotic?
Unrelated: I stumbled across this today, and thought I should share because it makes me giggle.
//Am I the only one who found these two sweaty guys alone in their cabin kind of erotic?//
Lyrie, I have been so unable to process all that sweaty testosterone-laden phallic-worm male-bonding kinky-electrocution shenanigans that I’ve had to trepan my own head.
If they hadn’t already been in a room, I’d have said, get a room.
Helena, THANK YOU! Once again, you described my thoughts perfectly. Relieved to know I’m not the only one.
I know. I wish, weirdly, that they had gone more explicit with it. It was so there – but it was somehow … not explicit enough. Which is ridiculous, seeing as they’re sitting in a sweat-lodge waiting for the appearance of … a WORM. I mean, isn’t that explicit enough for you?
I have to think more about it because something about that scene didn’t work for me – but here’s my slow-processing thing again. I hesitate to go “off” because it’s just a first impression.
Carry on.
And yes, it was practically Music-Video homoerotic.
Despite the throwback feel of it — relatively small story, unsafe homes, literalised metaphors — something about this one ran a little flat for me. I think because it so firmly sat in the “I know how you feel” camp of stories where every line out of someone’s mouth existed to make Sam and Dean do a little reflect-and-nod-to-self move, which the guys mostly avoided but still, there was no space for it to resonate freely and messily.
– I liked the wordless WTF exchanges between the dudes at the gas-n-sip
– I really liked the actress with the baby but Gemma’s motionless face often left me unmoved and so that Sam-and-woman dynamic we often get was kinda missing (for me)
– We were so close to a sequel to Dance of the Teapot CoffeeCups, I feel cheated!
– Helena and Lyrie, that woodland sweatlodge was a bit too silly for me! With the perfect esky and endless bottles of crisp cool water left around conveniently and why are they going for a humid heat instead of a dry heat again? Dean peering in Cole’s ears was kinda funny. I loved that one almost shocking shot of Cole’s face all twisted and despairing
– Kept getting distracted by everyone’s frosty breath. There was a lot of it, on every exhale. That was kinda the sexiest bit for me.
Jessie –
I’m finally catching up with all the comments, scrolling down.
// I think because it so firmly sat in the “I know how you feel” camp of stories where every line out of someone’s mouth existed to make Sam and Dean do a little reflect-and-nod-to-self move, which the guys mostly avoided but still, there was no space for it to resonate freely and messily. //
Maybe that’s my issue. I’ll think about it a bit more.
I think the possibilities here were ripe for some really crazy shit – worms emerging from bodies, sweaty bodies in cabins, torture and terror, male bonding – but even with all that, something about the structure of it felt extremely literal.
// We were so close to a sequel to Dance of the Teapot CoffeeCups, I feel cheated! //
Ha!! Yes! Oh man, it’s a joke that will never die.
//Sam and Dean do a little reflect-and-nod-to-self move, which the guys mostly avoided but still, there was no space for it to resonate freely and messily.//
Yep. This is becoming a bit of a pattern with these MOTW-ish episodes, and it can just suck all the life out of them. Even the one with Charlie smacked of that for me.
And what is it with this season and getting electrocuted? First the guy who haunted the wifi and now this? Please stop!
Still, I will never tire of watching someone having a clunky-arsed crystal vase smashed over their head. (Wedding present from a relation who hated them?) Luckily it was the most shatterable vase in the world.
I did like Dean putting the electrodes or whatever on Cole’s body. And then not being able to look as he zapped the crap out of the guy.
Nothing more intimate than electrocuting your buddy while he bites down on a wooden spoon.
Because leave a couple of guys alone with a set of jump leads and THAT’s what they’ll get up to.
Mr Badham, please can the next one you direct have some dancing in it?
They must have brought some Winchester Boo-Boo Cream for Cole, because the burn marks on his arms where Dean was zapping him looked like a mild hickey.
Yeah, there have been a lot of episodes where the MOTW is an overly laboured parallel for the MOC, and I always dread the bit where Dean has to talk about keeping fighting or resisting your dark side or whatever.
I love how Sam looks at his hands, appalled, after he smacks the guy with the vase. “This wasn’t lead crystal! This is some cheap-ass glass crap! I could have cut myself!”
//endless bottles of crisp cool water left around conveniently//
This is partly why I. Can’t. Even. with the sweatlodge shenanigans. Especially when the other guys were drinking out of the toilet bowl #sogladtheydidnotshowthis
It also rather wierdly reminded me of Le Samourai where Alain Delon inhabits a grotty room living only on endless bottles of mineral water and pristine packs of cigarettes.
Ooh ! Le Samourai – yes !!
Such a grimy room. Such perfect bottles of water and such a crisp perfect white T-shirt.
The writhing worm coming out of someone’s mouth and going into another person’s mouth is honestly an image I could live without. That is one of the grossest things the show has ever done. Kind of a more visceral disgusting version of the black smoke streaming into somebody’s mouth.
But seriously. DISGUSTING.
The teaser was over-the-top. Pushing the Criminal Minds envelope.
The sweat lodge was practically campy. I wish they had gone further in that direction – to admit the camp level of this male-bonding-sweat-lodge thing because otherwise … I guess I had a hard time really taking it seriously. Like, a perfect bank of charcoal? Endless supply of water? I think they treated it pretty seriously – and maybe that’s what felt off to me.
I did like Cole drooling at the sight of Dean drinking. Dean as bait always makes for some good television.
I’m a bit sick of the “do you really want to work on a case? what with the Mark and all?” “No, I’m fine. I have to live with the Mark” narrative. It’s run its course. It’s reminiscent of Dean worry-warting over Sam after the trials. I guess this is what happens when you don’t really have an explicit Big Bad.
Crowley is a nonentity right now. I don’t understand why he is still on the show – (even though I love Mark Sheppard.) Same with Castiel. We are supposed to feel the tension in their little Arcs – Crowley and evil Mum, and Castiel and missing grace – but honestly, with both of them, it’s “out of sight out of mind” for me in the episodes where they don’t show up. They don’t even register anymore. Like, Season 5, Season 6 … even when Castiel wasn’t in an episode, you felt his presence. I don’t anymore at all.
I understand they are beloved regulars – but at this point they don’t add anything to the show for me. If anything they drag it down when they show up. I almost feel disloyal saying that, but whatever.
I wish more … specificity … had been given to the brothers’ interactions with the military wives. I loved the casting of both of those women – especially the first one – they both did a great job – but there was something generic about all of it. It lacked that Supernatural je ne sais quoi.
I like Cole. I like Dean and Sam having to deal with other Alpha Male types. There is something potentially healing in these interactions – because if they all can work it out, and not – you know – kill each other – it provides a lot of space for Dean and Sam. Having been dominated by a male in their childhood. And being dominating types themselves. I like what Cole brings to the table – I liked especially the two of them being annoyed at him prolonging the phone call at the gas station. It’s like somewhere along the line … the three guys became a team. And they knew that he would not obey them and go into the house. They knew it because they wouldn’t have obeyed either. I liked that.
Crushing the wriggling worm in a bloody mess on the floor was so disgusting.
and another episode directed by John Badham!!
Something bothers me with this episode, but I can’t really pinpoint what it is, yet. Have seen it only once. But somehow I dread to re-watch it. The shocking teaser, the embarrassing homoerotic humorless stuff. I enjoyed it, but something’s… I don’t know… Not right. (but I’m slow-processing too).
That teaser was incredibly shocking. I liked that she was obviously a very athletic woman, the kind that would – literally – fight for her life – even though we didn’t know at first she probably was in the military. But it also made it that much worse. I don’t know. I seem to have contradictory feelings about a lot of things in this episode. Not necessarily a bad thing, but…
Re: Crowley and Cas: yup. So much better without them. THAT’S one thing I don’t have mixed feelings about.
//Pushing the Criminal Minds envelope// Agreed. I had to stop watching CM (ok, that was due more to repetition than squick). This reminded me to ask your opinion on Hannibal. Was watching S1 and absolutely love the look of the show and the work done by the actors but it was Squick Level Extreme. My husband is a tough guy actually ran from the room at one point, yelling “how can they show this on network tv?” Still not sure if my love of its elements can overcome that.
Paula – I love the cast of Criminal Minds so much and I admit I love stories having to do with serial killers and psychopaths. Love them! But yeah, the overall theme of the show is: “If You Are a Woman, Do Not Leave the House.” So many women trapped in so many dungeons!!
I love Hannibal!! Only saw Season 1 thus far but plan to continue. Hannibal, to me, is an erotic dream soaked in violence and gorgeous colors. One of the most beautiful-looking shows on television. I was overwhelmed by it. I see it as campy. It’s filmed in such a luscious manner that it feels practically burlesque to me – so I almost found some of its more grotesque elements humorous.
//The sweat lodge was practically campy. I wish they had gone further in that direction – to admit the camp level of this male-bonding-sweat-lodge thing because otherwise … //
Oh god, it was all a bit Ken Russell. If they’d just taken their clothes off and done some Women-In-Love-type wrassling in the firelight it would have moved things on a lot faster.
That’s what I mean. Go all Ken Russell with it – or at least acknowledge that that’s what’s underneath everything.
Because without … it makes it seem like SPN isn’t “in on the joke,” and SPN is always “in on the joke.”
My two (or three) cents.
Don’t get me wrong – I think the scene was acted great, and I like Dean and Cole together, and have liked them together from the beginning. It’s an interesting mix.
Yes, it lacked humour. I really thought Dean was going to joke about it when Sam left. And as the thing went on, I just couldn’t believe what I was seeing, honestly. So serious!
Since nobody mentioned it, I was starting to think I just had a dirty mind. But… Come on!
//I was starting to think I just had a dirty mind. //
Until you brought it up, Lyrie, I was trying to bury what I thought I’d witnessed deep within my consciousness. But to no avail.
I think that there was no real sense of peril, as well. In either of the locations. Dean and Sam are too capable for it to be a real threat, so they had to make these kind of pedestrian mistakes…you stay here lady, I’ll walk over there…I’ll tie you up with my giant ineffectual rope without really paying attention to you. Maybe a location that offered more danger or less comfort than the cabin would have helped. “We need to light a fire.” Cut to chimney pouring out white smoke. Flat.
//Cut to chimney pouring out white smoke. //
I thought they’d erected a new pope.
I mean, elected.
Ha!
Jessie – these are all very insightful points.
Supernatural itself has a dirty mind!
Any ‘who’s the hardest guy in the room’ type stuff always me think of this story. Get your toughness bonnet on.
I almost (almost) wish it were true. Toughness bonnet. Love it.
// But, while we accept amputation as an inevitable part of this we do not accept murder //
omg.
so glad the creature came out througth a visible way out.
spn would not have shown anything apart from the gents’s door and dean’s boot sqwashing the result.
survivers sufferes of bowel diseases you have my vote.
seeng it from another angle. worm featured as physical boundaries of “evil” that can be destroyed, not so like dean’s MoC. well maybe with a combo of electricity and water.
Sheila, Lyrie et al (did I use that correctly?) I think because we are also watching the early episodes the flaws in the writing and directing of the current season are particularly glaring. I’ve been thinking how superficial these episodes seem. They definitely have more of the network brand on them now (which is funny because The 100 is a CW show and you couldn’t call that one superficial) Even the better episodes lack depth somehow. I agree also that Castiel & Crowely’s stories are superfluous to the season. Maybe at some point these stories will merge and be meaningful, but I feel like they are filler, but maybe after 11years of filming the guys need a little time off, and Crowely & Castiel help with that in some small way?
Kim – I’ve actually really been enjoying Season 10 quite a bit! I think it’s been quite strong, and have enjoyed the lack of a Big Bad, except for the Mark. And the Mark is working almost as an extended metaphor – for masculinity and mental health – at least that’s how I see it – and I think that’s kind of fabulous. Without the pressure on from some outside event, the show has felt a bit loosey-goosey (which is a compliment, in my book) with lots of room for silliness – and long conversations – and humor … There have been a couple of weaker episodes but no real clinkers. Maybe the wifi one was the weakest – I don’t remember much about it.
I think the relationship with Cole has a lot of potential – which they don’t seem interested in exploring. Compare to the Gordon episodes – they really WORKED that character in the writer’s room and he had a life of his own. He was completely unpredictable. He was independent of Sam and Dean – so when he intersected with them, you never knew what was going to happen. The same is true for other successful side characters – Charlie. or Garth. Cole seems like he could have a life of his own like those other characters do – but he’s really just there to provide life lessons for the guys and a change of scenery. So it felt a little bit like a missed opportunity.
But in general, I’m really enjoying Season 10. Granted, it’s no Season 2 or Season 3 … but then again, what is??
:)
I do agree that watching early seasons at the same time with current can really point out flaws. Or, if not flaws, then how repetitive the show can get. I am sure this is probably even more exaggerated to those of you out there who have been watching the show for an entire decade now, and not binge-watching it like myself.
The “throwing worried glances at your brother as the Impala drives through the night” thing … So I’m re-watching Season 2 right now to do these re-caps and there it is again only now it’s because of Sam going dark side. But it really is the same exact thing – and every season has some “worried glance” situation. That goes on for episodes at a time. I don’t think that’s necessarily negative. And both JA and JP manage to make each moment specific – and put in its own context.
God love the Winchesters. Don’t ever change, boys.
had to watch the chapter again. there is the bit where dean starts frying cole and the camera focus onto his tatoo, challenge to change, a couple of times. the third time cole passed out and the tatoo’s image fades away. after some slaps on his face and given the worried look on dean’s face it crosses my mind that the guy might go for the kiss of life…
wasn’t wery happy with the boys’s exchange about doing everything rigth and still the guy dies. those words sound profetic and they are aired too much too often.
and the look on dean when all cole wants is drink him dry. ah it’s the sigth of blood that turns the MoC alive and kicking.
// I am sure this is probably even more exaggerated to those of you out there who have been watching the show for an entire decade now, and not binge-watching it like myself. //
I think it is? I’m always curious about how people see SPN if they’ve been watching since 2005 vs a more recent binge watch. I’m a 2005 viewer (as I’ve mentioned many times before…) and to me it can seem incredibly repetitive.
This isn’t always a bad thing. In some ways it is realistic–you don’t just get over issues quickly, even if you talk about them. But at the same time, this is fiction, and you (or I, really) want to see some progress after a decade! After a few years, the patterns start to seem more like bad/lazy writing, going back to a familiar subject or something they think the fans want, rather than “realism.”
I also agree that Cas and Crowley seem forced in there. Cas has for years. I like them both, but the writers don’t seem to know what to do with them. To me that is tied in with the repetitiveness. SPN can be so focused on the brother relationship that they sabotage their world-building (by killing everyone off–except the big “fan favs”).
Mainly though, I think the biggest problem for the decade long viewers is just that: the decade. The same old thing, no matter how good, just gets boring after a while.
(All that being said, SPN is still pretty good. I mean, it’s been 10 years and I’m still watching…)
// After a few years, the patterns start to seem more like bad/lazy writing, going back to a familiar subject or something they think the fans want, rather than “realism.” //
I can really see that! Like – THIS dynamic again??
Also: the image you linked to. Hahaha. I never know what image you are going to come up with and it’s always hilarious.
// To me that is tied in with the repetitiveness. SPN can be so focused on the brother relationship that they sabotage their world-building (by killing everyone off–except the big “fan favs”). //
Right!!
So these extraneous characters stick around because they resonate with fans – and then these other folks – who might add so much to the world-building (like – in my opinion – Garth, or Bobby – Ellen or Jo – or Melanie from “The Mentalists” – KIDDING) – have to go. It starts to feel arbitrary.
//So these extraneous characters stick around because they resonate with fans – and then these other folks – who might add so much to the world-building (like – in my opinion – Garth, or Bobby – Ellen or Jo – or Melanie from “The Mentalists” – KIDDING) – have to go. It starts to feel arbitrary.//
Right? It feels like they’re doing it just to make Sam & Dean suffer, whether it makes sense or not–WE MUST FEED THE ANGST AT ALL COSTS.
Look at an episode like “Weekend at Bobby’s.” It was fantastic. More like it would have been great. Aaaaand then they kill of Rufus a few episodes later. What really gets me going is that we can have Sam & Dean relationship issues AND episodes that focus on other characters. There is enough time in a season for both! It might also, I don’t know, cut into the repetitiveness by not forcing them to drag out the issue through each episode of the season. This feels like a very “CW” problem to me.
And I think I’ll stop ranting about this now.
hello. if it helps there will be a tesis at universities concerning the issue of “Supernatural acting as a mirrow versus Humankind/Good&Evil.
the Big Bad is SUPERNATURAL.
if we take out off the equation the supernatural stuff we would have ordinary people with live hookworms, or seeds growing inside their lungs or with DNA mutations or cells that dissobey orders and refuse to die (tumors) and maybe even Hamlet would still be alive if his dad’s ghost did not mess things around…
//So these extraneous characters stick around because they resonate with fans – and then these other folks – who might add so much to the world-building (like – in my opinion – Garth, or Bobby – Ellen or Jo – or Melanie from “The Mentalists” – KIDDING) – have to go. It starts to feel arbitrary.// I don’t disagree that this show is downright careless with its supporting characters, but on the other hand, it’s also one of the few shows that doesn’t seem to forget people once they’ve kicked off. Think of all the people who have come back in one form or another, both friend and foe. They come back as nightmare visions or mental projections, via psychic messages, alternate realities, and good old ghostly visitations–whether to forgive (Jo, Pamela) or protect (John, Bobby, Mary), act as fodder (Adam–sorry, dude, about the whole pit thing), offer a mission or act as guides (Kevin, Rufus,) or to menace (Yellow-Eyes, Lucifer, Grandpa, even Abaddon). Sometimes it seems like the best way to ensure that a character won’t come back is to either make them a civilian (sorry, Melanie, and b & w Jessie, Lisa, Ben, Amelia) and/or to keep them alive at the end of the episode!
Likewise, I try to see the storytelling as cyclical rather than repetitive, when it is working well (and I freely agree that it doesn’t always hit the mark it strives for). I think the show keeps travelling thie same ground for two reasons. First, a major plot thread since the beginning has been free will vs. destiny. I think I’ve said it before, but I see the last 2 seasons in part as a kind of replay or re-setting of the 2014 destiny that Zachariah showed Dean, but the idea really goes back to the beginning with Yellow Eyes and his “plans for Sam”. The boys keep fighting against these universal forces, but fate will not let them off the merry-go-round. When the show stages Dean’s death in s. 9 as a mirror of Sam’s in All Hell Breaks Loose, with the survivor cupping the other’s face in his hands, then drawing the body into a hug, I have to think that they are doing so intentionally, to call attention to the parallels. As a result (for me anyway) the closing of s. 9 resonates with our memories of the earlier episode, and becomes more powerful rather than less.
The second is the fact that this is a very self-aware show, given to outright meta commentary, which lends itself to circular narratives. It comments on the defined nature of fiction. I’m thinking of comparisons to some other texts, like “Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead.” No matter how many times you read “Hamlet”, or see this play, no matter how much an individual production alters the action around the plays’ set-pieces, at the end of it all, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern will be dead. Even though they think they might be able to do better next time. For another one, Stephen King’s Roland will always walk into the desert, following the Man in Black. And in Sam and Dean’s case, the brothers will always shoot worried glances at each other and not be allowed to die by some decree of the universe–even though everyone else falls around them.
Sort of responding to several things at once … I don’t mind the lack of Big Bad this season – to have one apocalypse is a misfortune, to have two seems like carelessness. (Although it does seem a bit weird not to have some character to actually hate, like Metatron, or thrill to, like Abadon.) However, to paraphrase Jessie, lack of peril is fatal. I feel this season that all those ‘worried glance’ exchanges about the MOC are draining tension rather than creating it. (And I am also getting a bit tired of the ‘keep fightin’ speech BECAUSE I HAVE GOT THE MEMO ALREADY!) These are not the ding-dong cut-to-the-bone arguments of Season 9, which (for me) always escalated tension. Supernatural is all about peril – without it, without that sense of incredibly high stakes whether on the micro-macro/episode-arc level, it’s just two guys rescuing cats and participating in teaching moments. And I’m just not feeling much peril.
Regarding world building, I’m also a bit disappointed that the Wo/Men of Letters-verse seems to have been a fizzled out this season (I guess the Charlie ep was a nod, but still). The nerd in me would totally thrill to more of that story. Flashback episodes, fedoras, time travel – c’mon guys, there’s still oodles of unexplored stuff in that basement, not to mention timetravelling motorbikes!
And as for Crowley – Crowley seemed thrillingly significant at the beginning of the season, but right now I’m frustrated rather than tantalised at what this character is given to do, not to mention the cardboard dungeon he is condemned to dwell in.
Anyhoo. One of the great pleasures of SPN is binge watching the whole season again and and seeing how all the bits fitted together so I am perfectly happy to retract my grumbling come June.
//end of moan.
Oh, let us have just a little bit of peril!
I mean, it’s not much to ask, is it – a bit of peril?
It must be too perilous :-(
Peril is good. We enjoy some peril, the more perilous the better. (in interviews with the actors, they all keep talking about a new Big Bad who will show up soon, and that the story is going to get “outrageous”. Here’s hoping for extremely perilous, as well!)
I saw Jim Beaver tweet that Bobby will return on April 1. Maybe as part of the Big Bad scenario?
Grand Coven?
Necromancers calling up the dead (hey, Jerry Garcia on the soundtrack)?
Outrageous would be good. Mucho peril baby!
Oh, I wish I hadn’t read that! Well, too late. Now I’ll be waiting impatiently.
Can’t wait for Jim Beaver. Nerdist’s spoiler said that “Inside Man will see Sam and Castiel turning to Bobby to get assistance from someone in heaven”. With the MoL mention at the end of last episode, I’m thinking Henry Winchester. Bobby and Henry together – is it my birthday?
For myself, I avoid all spoilers/buzz/outside commentary/commentary from actors. (Or I try to!)
I do this as a critic as well – which is difficult when something like Cannes is going on – because the buzz becomes deafening and hard to avoid (I basically can’t go on Twitter during Cannes because it’s impossible to avoid buzz about the films playing) – but honestly, I like to come things fresh, and as pure as I possibly can.
I even avoid trailers. It’s hard to do! But I try to lessen the chatter around whatever it is (SPN episode, movie) before I watch it.
I have been trying to wean myself from spoilers and speculation this season, too–obviously, fallen off the wagon a couple of times. :-) I do find that I’m a happier viewer when I don’t know too much about an episode before watching. Just can’t stay completely away from SPN con videos, I’m afraid. They are kinda addicting, and YouTube does encourage the binge-watching with their playlists and their “if you liked this” tiles–
Just can’t do that as a moviegoer, though. I rely on trailers and on you guys to figure out what I really need to see!
I totally understand that! I know I enjoy something more when I haven’t heard 20 opinions about it first – but with the Internet and Twitter it is really hard to filter that stuff out.
And in some cases – I’ve seen trailers where I have thought – I must see that NOW!!
(The new Mad Max trailer. It’s one of the best trailers I’ve ever seen.)
Now whether or not it is a good movie remains to be seen – but THAT is how you put together a kick-ass trailer!!