I have my writing group tonight so won’t be able to watch til tomorrow.
And in case I haven’t said it recently: Thank you to all who show up here. I appreciate your contributions. I appreciate the TONE of the discussions we have established, where we can state what we think, how we feel, and even discuss disagreements in not just a civil fashion, but an open-minded fashion. We need to maintain open and creative spaces for this kind of conversation – in such a divisive world, Ugh – and I am collectively proud of us for doing that together. And keeping it up for years now. Years? Wow. Yes, years.
See you all tomorrow.
I really loved it.
I’m mainly annoyed we didn’t see Sam’s lap dance.
I am slightly afraid of the eunuch-ing of Sam … there seems to be a disconnect sometimes between the character as established and how the current writers conceive of him. It’s a fine line. Sam is really tough, I imagine, to write.
There were a couple of “This is what we do,” “we save monsters” speeches and I’ve pretty much had it – although it was in a semi-okay context here because Dean was suicidal and feeling like none of it was worth it. But I’m afraid that this will just lead to more “Listen, we’re heroes who save the world and I need to accept my own hero status …” bullshit.
BUT. It was good to have some torment around it.
I am VERY pleased with the cray-cray design of Death’s “office.”
Take THAT, crappy Hell set. It felt like … well, you didn’t know where you were, you were in some other dimension, the colors were monochromatic and it didn’t look like any recognizable space on earth. This is a matter of conception – of actually giving it some thought, and I appreciated it.
Speaking of sets: the set for the asylum was fantastic and very complicated, stairways and hallways and different rooms. I liked it.
The final 5 minutes were very effective. I actually got tears in my eyes. That hasn’t happened in a season and a half.
JA is brilliant. There’s something dead in his eyes this season … he’s really working on something here, working on a deep level that goes even deeper than the scripts. A man who’s just done.
We’ll see how that goes.
Interested to hear what other people think!
AND on a more macro level:
I’m pleased so far at the semi-meandering trajectory of this season. MOTWs, hopping around – a little bit of Cas here, Jack there … but not purely focused on the Big Bad with the scarred face, or the pit opening up to let out the demons … it’s a little bit more un-structured and I think that really works for a show with such a long season.
I remember feeling that way for much of Season 11 before it derailed. It was “all over the place” and – in my opinion – that’s a good “look” for Supernatural. Keep it juuuuuust a little bit LOOSE.
//the cray-cray design of Death’s “office.”// yes!! And that she chose to put her desk right in front of the W section, hahahahaha.
Maybe they’ve knocked their heads so many times that all this “what we do business” is just a little bit of self care.
“We’re gonna go out there, and we’re gonna whip…we’re gonna whip some egg whites…”
“Some, yeah, we’re gonna whip that souffle, because that’s what we…”
“Fairly sure that’s what we spent our whole lives…”
“Dad mentioned it at some point…”
“….keep on baking….”
// “Fairly sure that’s what we spent our whole lives…” //
hahahahaha
I am so glad I decided to re-watch SPN and unearth these posts, because I had never seen THIS.
Between that and “we keep grinding” , I think Jessie cured my depression. Tears streaming down my face.
hahahaha thank you for reminding me of this. Well actually no thank you because I had kind of managed to forget how insane-making those repetitious mantras were. Lyrie giveth and taketh away!
lol
This and the inner monologue of Hendriksen were peak Supernatural thread.
Yes, Jessie. Cause it’s who I am. This is what I do. I save the threads.
Closing the scene at the asylum with the bodies laid out and the the mom not quite touching her son’s face, while the music is countering what we’re seeing with the lyric “It’s never too late to start all over again”–wow. Powerful stuff.
Also powerful in retrospect is the fact that Dean had that kit in his bag, and jumped at the chance to use it. It seemed abrupt to me at first, but I rewatched this morning, and I think it speaks to where he’s at now, especially when you add in what he says to Billie about Sam trying to fix things while Dean drags him down.
Also some good use of found footage in the opener.
All around, a good, creepy episode with humor, character work, and an expansion on the lore–
One question: Do you think that Billie’s comment about the universe being a house of cards might relate to the writer’s understanding that they are going to have to be careful not to unravel the fabric of their story by way of the alternate universe?
//Closing the scene at the asylum with the bodies laid out and the the mom not quite touching her son’s face// That Mom was an amazing actress and I don’t think we got any of this intimate and real grief in our faces in a awhile. It’s been at a distance, fuzzy over Sam and Dean’s shoulder, or not at all. Really made me tear up.
// I don’t think we got any of this intimate and real grief in our faces in a awhile. It’s been at a distance, fuzzy over Sam and Dean’s shoulder, or not at all. Really made me tear up. //
Me too!
It really really drove home the darkness underneath the story – how people die – and people have to grieve them – and what that means for Sam and Dean (who have also had to grieve … or were never really allowed to grieve).
Taking the time in the episode for that moment with the mother … SUCH a good choice.
// the mom not quite touching her son’s face, //
That wrecked me.
// Do you think that Billie’s comment about the universe being a house of cards might relate to the writer’s understanding that they are going to have to be careful not to unravel the fabric of their story by way of the alternate universe? //
Hmmm … Interesting. I think I know what you mean … would you mind re-wording though? By ‘writers” you mean the SPN writing staff?
I do mean the writers–though I generally hate to impose my thoughts onto the writing room, since I usually feel like I need to see the whole picture (in this case, the whole season) to understand what is really driving the narrative–and even then, I want to be free to interpret the thing for myself rather than completely submit to the “this is what we meant” thing. Like you say, once the text is out in the public, each recipient places it in his or her own context.
But this thought occurred to me when Billie started talking about the “house of cards”. In terms of narrative, tone and genre, this show is stretchier than pretty much any other tv I’ve ever come across, and this is a big part of why I love it so much. But even it can’t stretch to infinity. While the alternate universe is potentially a great source for new (and new versions of old) characters and stories, they are also going to have to be careful with it. It has the potential to overload our “home” universe with needless complication, or render it nonsensical by changing the rules of how everything works to such a degree that nothing works anymore. In short, the line of dialogue reflects on the precarious nature of this–or any–fictional world.
I don’t pretend to claim that I know how they should walk this line, of course! But I keep thinking of Ben Edlund’s commentary track for “The French Mistake,” where he talks about how worried they were that the audience would a) not accept the alternate world or b) be taken completely out of the show’s reality over the course of the episode. This is why Sam raps on the wall of Bobby’s house in the last scene–it was important to Edlund that the show’s world, and its fourth wall, be re-established by the end. I hope that our current batch of writers can come up with equally clever ways to ground the AU within the show’s existing framework and rules.
ahhhh now I get it. I totally see where you are coming from – and the Sam rap on the wall in French Mistake makes it crystal clear for me.
I hadn’t considered this at all – I get so sucked into minutia (“oh my Godz the look on Jensen’s face” and etc.) that I sometimes lose sight of the forest. Which is one of the pulls of the show – his freak-out on the plane in Phantom Traveler is why I decided to watch the whole damn series after all. :)
But I see what you mean and I understand the dangers. I have been bored by the Alt U, mainly because … it’s boring. ha. It even managed to make Bobby’s return a bit of a Yawn, although I was so bitter by the time that ep came around, I’m not sure my reaction can be trusted. I hadn’t considered, really, that this Alternate Universe could start to dominate to the degree that the show – and its reality vanishes.
Hopefully they can steer that ship. I’m feeling more confident after these first episodes – but I still worry.
Thanks for elaborating.
// Also powerful in retrospect is the fact that Dean had that kit in his bag, and jumped at the chance to use it. //
I so agree, Barb!
I accepted it at face value but the second the episode ended I was like, “Hold on a second. He carries those two syringes around with him??”
This is like Bobby with the one bullet in the drawer meant for his brain.
//This is like Bobby with the one bullet in the drawer meant for his brain.//
Yes! I hadn’t made that connection–Yes!
So many good things about last night’s episode. I’ve actually had tears in my eyes 2 weeks in a row. (Sam and Dean’s conversation at the end of last weeks episode got me as well) Believe me though….that’s a good thing. I’ve missed having an emotional connection to the show….that’s what got me watching in the first place. Dean’s conversation with Sam, the mother breaking down over her son, Dean’s dead face while he was driving and then the phone call, and the look on Cas’s face at the end….that was Supernatural right there.
That asylum set was creepy as all get out and I loved it. Anytime there is a ghost story I’m happy and last night did not disappoint.
I don’t know what it was about Jared’s line reading of “So…strip club?” that struck me as funny, but it did. I laughed, rewound, watched again, and laughed more. Sam melted my heart last night. Trying so hard to make Dean feel better, doing it so awkwardly, but trying so hard. However, I totally agree with what you are saying about Sam’s character. I want to see more of how all this is affecting him as well. One blow up is not enough.
Baby was gorgeous last night…just sayin. :-)
Enjoyed the episode thoroughly, but I couldn’t help but wonder…as many years as these guys have been hunting monster……why haven’t they learned CPR yet???
All those glorious shots of Baby and the scenery at the end. A+++++ this season on this.
Michelle –
// the mother breaking down over her son, Dean’s dead face while he was driving and then the phone call, and the look on Cas’s face at the end….that was Supernatural right there. //
Yeah, that final sequence – with the music above it – really really well done. Supernatural at its best. PHEW.
These opening episodes have been like a trust exercise for me. I’m learning to trust again!
Some very good Impala moments!
You know, it occurs to me that my “fears” about Sam being a eunuch is a hangover from last season where he was neutered out of being a character. So far, in the episodes of this season, he’s been given a lot of the complexity that I love so much about the character – his long ago fears about demon blood, and having to have people fight for the goodness in him – and how much Dad’s comment to Dean still haunts him … that was just 2 episodes ago!
So I will retract my “eunuch” comment – with some reservations.
I still think there’s a tendency to let Dean be expressive and have Sam be the “now calm down” one … and while that’s sometimes satisfying – it’s not good when that’s all there is. Sam becomes a casualty then – he vanishes as a character.
So far though, in S13, I am thrilled to feel that Sam – and that darkness in him, the struggle it has been for him to just get through the day at times – knowing how much he has to fight against since the nursery … anyway, I feel that he’s back. Jack is bringing that Sam back.
This was a great episode. So classic in so many ways.
The last time we heard “You have work to do” was oldDeath saying it was all about the Souls and eating Pizza in Chicago.
And the scene when the boys come to pick up Cas in the Impala (in the street with the big with outline of a cross on the right and maybe a car on the left) looks exactly like the rapey scene in “Houses of the Holy”when Dean shows up just in time to fight off the attacker and give chase to see the attacker die by “God’s Will”, Season 2 Episode 13.
Loved Billies promotion into Death’s role. Both of them are such great characters, and Sam’s humorous attempts at strip club yelp reviews. And DepressedDean is completely believable and acted by JA. His numbness grief and pale face is just amazing acting is doesn’t seem like acting, it seems like a real phase.
Wish there was more Sam like that. Overall loved this ep.
Maureen – thanks for your good observations about the callbacks in settings to earlier episodes!
I too am glad to see Billie back. I miss Death – but she is a worthy replacement. And she and JA have always had good sparky chemistry. He looked so exHAUSTED during his conversation with her. It was almost scary. He looks like S9 exhausted.
Now I love funny burlesque Dean. But pale exhausted over-it Dean is really really good – and completely topples over the whole world of the show. If he gives up … NOW WHAT?? Every time Dean has lost the faith, Sam gets so alarmed … it calls into question EVERYthing. (The opposite is not true. A fascinating dynamic. When Sam “quits,” Dean guts it out and keeps going. An inverse of codependency.)
So the whole thing rides on Dean being “all in.” He is SO NOT “all in” right now.
This is super good dramatically!!
Thanks again Sheila – I have to say it is refreshing where we can have disagreements and I still love each and every one of you (even rantgirl who called us annoying c*nts because hilarious)
(Posted this on the wrong thread – oops.) Really liked the old fashioned MoTW story. Plague masks freak me anyway and it was so eerie that never saw the doctor’s face. The doctor’s house/asylum was a gorgeous set with those stained glass windows (was this also the same rich person’s house from when Dean set the bait with fried pickles to have a conversation with Death? Just writing that down makes me laugh?)
Speaking of laughing, I find it crazy that Dean now carries a death kit on him, you know, just in case. Does it speak to his mental state right now and/or just something he’s packing in the duffle?
Oh Sam. Your sad little efforts to make Dean feel better. The idea of Sam accepting a Christmas lap dance from Dean and sort of rolling his eyes, talking career paths with the stripper, is hilarious.
(//The doctor’s house/asylum was a gorgeous set with those stained glass windows (was this also the same rich person’s house from when Dean set the bait with fried pickles to have a conversation with Death? Just writing that down makes me laugh?)// Sorry to ask this, but it’s driving me crazy… did you post this about the rich person’s house on some other site as well? I could swear I read this exact wording on some other site but can’t remember where… are you on tumblr? Feel free to ignore this if it creeps you out…)
// even rantgirl who called us annoying c*nts because hilarious //
this will never not be funny to me. I can’t even remember why she hated us so much. I believe it was because we didn’t worship Dean enough? hahahaha I think we worship him just fine, thankyouverymuch.
// Does it speak to his mental state right now and/or just something he’s packing in the duffle? //
At first I thought, “wow, he brings being prepared to another level” but now I think … it might be something more ominous. He is walking around with a way out. I’m worried for him and I love it when I’m worried for Dean!
// The idea of Sam accepting a Christmas lap dance from Dean and sort of rolling his eyes, talking career paths with the stripper, is hilarious. //
I know! Poor guy.
and my GOD JA nailed the state of a crushing hangover. My own head hurt looking at him and I don’t even drink.
Oops, sorry, found it… /o\
I am on tumblr. Now you have me wondering if I asked someone about this (gah, is my memory that bad?) Didn’t get an answer if I did. Do you know? Because now I’m really curious where I’ve seen that set before.
Pfft, just realized I posted it on the wrong SPN thread here on Sheila’s.
That’s what I thought was being referred to – the double posting.
either way … I’ll need to go back and look at fried-pickle-Death house to see what I think!
I’ve seen someone say they were reminded of the sets of “There Will Be Blood” and “Regarding Dean”, but personally I’m easily fooled – they only need to change a few little things and I won’t recognize a place. Or a person for that matter :D
One thing I really loved was Billie’s “You’ve got work to do.” That is a deep, old-school line about Dean. Goes back to the pilot, of course, but one of the best iterations is from Faith (which I bet Yockey went back and watched) — when Roy says he chose Dean to live because Dean is important and “has a job to do” — I find it a heartbreaking, devastating line. Cosmic not because of the scale of reapers blah blah but because once again Dean is defined as an actor in the universe by virtue of Duty. This boy is not allowed to rest.
Jessie – you’ve put into words perfectly how I felt when I heard Billie say that.
I just re-watched Faith – I’m doing S1 now – and it remains one of my favorite episodes in the entire series – and way back then, Dean looked intimidated and freaked that anyone would think his work was important enough for an intercession like that. Things are different now – and you’re right: devastating.
I look at him and – as much as JA can anyway – he looks like shit. He looks pale, and he’s got that dead-eyed and yet TENSED UP feeling to him that reminds me of his breakdown in S9 when Sam cut him loose. Like, there’s depression AND anxiety in his face. (In bipolar-land, this is what is known as a “mixed state.”)
And this is me being a middle-aged lady who had a wild wild youth … but I looked at him sprawled on the floor with the bra around his neck and thought … This is cool when you’re 25. But now? I’m slightly concerned.
and the HANGOVER. The WAY JA performed that hangover! He’s so damn good.
and so the feeling I’m getting in S13 so far is this:
Dean has started off the season with a deficit. A deficit of energy, hope, belief … he’s already “in the hole.” I’m trying to think of another season where this is the case. I mean, maybe S2 … with Dad’s death … but that had a different feeling. It was natural grief. This is something different. Pure exhaustion. He’s tapped out.
and a tapped-out Dean is ALWAYS interesting as HELL.
// because once again Dean is defined as an actor in the universe by virtue of Duty. This boy is not allowed to rest. //
YES.
and “you’ve got work to do” added alongside the callbacks to Dad’s comment to Dean about “saving or killing” Sam … these are old old callbacks. The show seems to have regained its memory.
… not like last season where they were like, “Hey yeah, member when we went to Hollywood that time?” “Yeah, and you were Polish.”
BANGING MY HEAD ON THE WALL.
This feels more like true organic memory.
*bursts in and joins the conversation*
Small moments I enjoyed:
When Dean is eating bacon, a piece drops from his mouth and he looks around to check if anyone noticed.
The use of the battery sign to determine who was holding which camera.
Old-school Baby shots.
Sam pushing his grief to one side to focus on Dean – just like Season 2, when he was trying to get Dean to deal with the loss of their father without dealing with it himself. Also, Sam basically encouraging Dean’s alcoholism as a coping strategy.
The pink bra on Dean’s head.
The fact that they took the time to focus on the mother’s grief.
Throwback to ‘Dead in the Water’ with Dean talking to a silent kid, who’s drawing pictures of what traumatised him. Except this time, it didn’t work.
As a medic, I always love plague masks. And burr hole drills. They still do lobotomies on occasion, but it’s a ‘desperate times’ thing – at least that’s what the psychiatrists on my placement assured me. Sometimes it seems to work, but the evidence is poor. After all, sometimes depression lifts after decades for no apparent reason.
Billie’s fancy new scythe. It seems to be better quality than the old Death’s.
Dean forgetting he was a ghost for a minute when he went to tell Sam he had found Sean.
I also love Billie’s wardrobe. And her leather coat.
// The fact that they took the time to focus on the mother’s grief. //
I love how so many of us are mentioning this. It really stood out, didn’t it? It had an emotionalism that exploded the episode for me – it gave me an “inroad” into the themes of loss that the show has always trucked in. (There was a moment in a S11 episode – dammit you all are much better with titles than I am – the one with the werewolf attack in the cabin where Sam was shot – anyway: the moment at the end in the hospital hallway between Dean and the young woman … on her face, you could see the cost – that she will never be the same again … she was totally destroyed. They took the time to allow her that moment, to allow the show to be as dark as it should be – I LOVE that scene – she did a hell of a job with it too – and it’s that kind of thing that was so missing from last season. Because what happened on DEAN’S face as he listened to that young woman talk … allowed us deeper into HIS world … that yeah, he saved her life, but she is not okay and she will not BE okay.
anyway: I love that this episode allowed for that moment.
Plus Dean with a hangover.
Ahhhhh “Red “Meat” One of my absolute and utter favorite season 11 episodes. The woman’s name was Michelle….so that episode obviously sticks with me. :-) :-)
It never ceases to amaze me how incredible peoples’ memories are for – names, titles – I bow in awe.
Red Meat is a mind-blowingly great episode.
and that final scene – and her complete destruction … it just puts a dark spin on her being “saved” that really loops into the overall mood of the series in general. It’s not all pretty girls giving the brothers’ a thank-you kiss on the cheek/lips/inner-thighs, whatever.
People lose and they lose big.
I need to re-watch Red Meat!!
// As a medic, I always love plague masks. //
This is one of my favorite comments in this thread!!
Sam, this poor kid is baling hay like a dog and here you are standing around like an asshole watching him do it and sweating BUCKETS. Just take off your jacket and help. Just do it. For him.
I love how he put his elbow on the one hay bale so the kid had to stop working.
//I appreciate the TONE of the discussions we have established, where we can state what we think, how we feel, and even discuss disagreements in not just a civil fashion, but an open-minded fashion. We need to maintain open and creative spaces for this kind of conversation – in such a divisive world, Ugh – and I am collectively proud of us for doing that together. And keeping it up for years now. Years? Wow. Yes, years.//
I am way, way behind now – just started a new job (yay, money!) and TV watching has fallen by the wayside.
Even though I haven’t been contributing recently, I am still grateful for this space and the open, kind, and frequently hilarious discussions here, too. This is probably my most visited site on the entire internet, and I think of many of you as friends at this point, even though we’ve never actually met. Thank you so much for creating and maintaining this space for us, Sheila!
// just started a new job (yay, money!) //
Congratulations!!
I think of many of you as friends too. Very very happy I decided to write about Jensen Ackles’s ridiculous gift of “schtick” one day when I was motivated … and here we all are 4 years later.
Congrats Natalie!
Thank you both!
I don’t contribute too much to these conversations because I’m too busy with school or too forgetful or just too amazed by what everyone else has to offer, but I’ve found immense pleasure for… maybe two whole years, out of coming to these discussions and reading what all of you have to say. It’s such an amazing community, even for quiet little outliers like me.
I’m very happy you feel that way, Audrey – it means a lot.
I get so much out of the discussions. Not just because I love to hear other people’s interpretations – although that’s true – but because there’s always stuff I miss. It makes it so fun to go back and re-watch.
I need to re-watch this ep – just haven’t had a chance yet.
Same, same Audrey! I’m a happy long-term lurker who couldn’t love this community more.
Lauren – love to hear lurkers are happy! But I also love de-lurkers.
I had no idea this would happen when I started writing about Jensen (in particular). I should have guessed, considering what I had already picked up on about the fandom. But it’s been amazing!
I loved Sam sleeping in the Impala with Dean at the wheel. It always interests me when they feel safe enough to sleep, especially in the car. I had truly given up on the show being able to do anything with Castiel that could interest me again – but when Dean got the call, that moment was so CHARGED, without really showing anything! I sat straight up on my couch and felt INVESTED in Cas for the first time in years. I don’t know if it was the music cue or Jensen’s face or the lack of dialogue (so much better than overexplaining), but something GOT ME in a way that I had not anticipated. So encouraging!
Bethany – I totally agree with your thoughts here and I had the same experience.
I had given up on Castiel too. Ever since the Castiel-Hannah plot, I was over it. I was like: why. Since then the character has been coasting on fumes – and it’s really really obvious the change after re-watching S4 and S5. Like: WOW. They kill of CHARLIE?? and keep wet noodle around? I say this as someone who totally agrees that Castiel brought something essential and exciting to the show.
I loved, too, how it was done with no dialogue.
after all the empty “You’re our brother” “You’re family” line-readings and the truly tepid response I had to his death – I couldn’t keep track of what was happening at all in the final episodes last season – I was very very encouraged by how they handled this (as well as Castiel’s doubling-up in the Empty).
so I’m looking forward to seeing where all this goes.
The killing off of Charlie has never been proven necessary and was a mistake in my opinion. The writers could have done so much more with Aileen too, but instead they made her Juliet’s chew toy in a cold open in a S12 ep. Unforgivable!
About a year ago Netflix gave me the gift of SPN and I discovered this site within th sam week. I consider myself exceptionally blessed to have this site and the early break-down eps to truly understand the beauty of Supernatural as I discovered the show. What a gift in the golden age of television! And then the community here is just amazing. I struggle with anxiety and feeling like what I have to say isn’t good enough, but this place is so caring and warm (with one exception) I’ll risk it anyway! Thanks for having me ;)
// I struggle with anxiety and feeling like what I have to say isn’t good enough, but this place is so caring and warm (with one exception) //
Maureen – this makes me feel so good – I hope something I said wasn’t the “exception”?? Or maybe you’re referring to the entity I now refer to as “our troll” – who cut a swath through the re-caps with crazy mean comments?? At any rate, I’m so glad you feel safe enough here to weigh in – your comments add so much to the conversation.
In re: Charlie. I know. It makes no sense. I also felt that the choices she made in that episode made no sense. If you’re on the run from psycho killers, why do you sit in front of an open window? also, you can’t just put on headphones to drown out Rowena?
It all felt phony to me.
She added so much to the show. Like Jodie Mills – she was an essential female presence – and it was great to see their affection for her – and her intuitive understanding when something was wrong. She could cut through their bullshit.
And my GOD I’m still mad about Eileen.
They didn’t even EXPLORE the possibilities between her and Sam – after setting up a dynamic so powerfully in her first episode. SUCH a disappointment.
//I struggle with anxiety and feeling like what I have to say isn’t good enough//
I promise you it is! I love reading all perspectives, even when I’m not actively responding.
And I couldn’t agree more about Charlie and Aileen. I can live with characters having a meaningful death – or even meaningless, if it works within the story (Ellen and Jo spring to mind) – but I can’t forgive character deaths due to lazy writing. (Unless it’s Ketch. I don’t care how they kill him as long as he stays dead this time.)