I’ve been away from this place for 2 weeks – so sorry – I miss you all! I have many thoughts about last week’s episode – Becky!! – just haven’t had time to comment.
On a side note: Here is Jensen playing his Fender Telecaster, because of COURSE he owns the coolest badass-est guitar on the planet.
So, I’ll catch up with tonight’s episode this weekend. In the meantime, here’s an open thread.
Thanks as always for stopping by!
I’ve been thinking about some of the discussion raised in the comments of last week’s episode about how successful the Chuck/meta thing is. Some observations without conclusions:
– It’s a fairly logical choice to make the ending of this particular show, with all its self-referentiality and fandom baggage, be about the ending of this particular show. Is it the best choice? I don’t think so, but it’s been made.
– I enjoy stories about stories. Am I enjoying the way this version of that trope is playing out? Not on the whole. I think this particular show is stronger when it evokes and reverberates with referentiality and the deep currents of larger stories, not when it turns all the subtext into text. In fact, that’s probably the best way to describe how this falls flat for me: everyone’s just saying everything out loud, and it’s all pretty basic and boring. Maybe that’s an appropriate choice for the final season, but hearing meta wisecracks about how pretty Dean is when he suffers pales in comparison to seeing him suffer prettily, and enjoying it. It’s like the show is describing itself doing something, instead of just doing it.
– I have no problem with fandom and viewers being poked fun at, and the show mocking itself. As a fan I would rather be mocked than the version of indulged and celebrated that the last few years have gifted us.
– To highlight — to make it the thematic frontspiece the fact that Sam and Dean are fictional, and that all of their experience and emotion is performative and ephemeral, does not make me invest in them and their ends more deeply. I think that the ending will have to be honest and rooted in powerful and specific emotion about Sam and Dean’s feelings for each other — and not some wider nod to story or fandom or their boundless found family — to be in any way successful. I mean, I would want that anyway, but with this fictionality as a foundation I think it’s particularly critical.
– I thought it was dumb that in-universe Supernatural, a series of failed books, had funko-pop dolls and merch and stuff (although I did laugh at the dolls quaking in terror at the end).
– Some of these jokes I am probably taking too seriously.
This episode illustrated one of the things I dislike most about this final season choice. I moaned about it after the first couple of episodes so sorry for the repetition. But it gives permission to the writers to write shitty stories that have no weight, and blame it on their God and their meta framework. They can hang all the lampshades on it that they want, doesn’t change the fact that it’s still a shitty story. Why not write a sincere MOtW case instead of a parody of one? Some of their best episodes have been third-act turn episodes. The way it ends up reading, to me, is: aren’t we clever for writing ourselves into the story, and saying that we’re meanies and crap writers, and aren’t you a chump for wanting something better.
I have some real beefs with a lot of the production choices too. Last week’s dream sequence was spectacular, and lingered, floated. This week’s were more pedestrian and cut into and out of so fast that they didn’t take on any particular dreamlike quality. They were unsatisfying as dreams, which is a shame, because it’s with dreams that you can really overload the visuals with meaning or tension or feeling.
Having said that — it was still cool as an idea, and packed some punch. Why always in the bunker? (because the writers are boring and it’s cheap to film there, I know, but does this indicate that Sam is dreaming out Chuck-inflected scenarios in a place that’s familiar to him, or is he seeing visions of actual events in Chuck’s drafts that happen to take place in the bunker because the writers are boring and it’s cheap to film there? The ongoing thread of trying to get one to kill the other goes back to the original s4/5 story, and came back with Cain, so it feels fitting in that sense, and more importantly it was about Sam and Dean — it hinged on their relationship, it’s resulted in a ton of great brother stuff — so I can’t get too down on the dreams and this part of the story.
I loathed the tent that is bigger than my lounge room and the cabin that is bigger than my house, and apparently has a balcony to shoot from?
I loathed the fantasy music score over the gun being melted. That was hideously off-brand. Is it the first time I’ve noticed it or is it something new? Also the wacky organ music and awkward “comic” editing (definitely not new developments) undercut the jerky & IDs scenes, but they were fun enough.
Was there a joke or some meaning to casting the three identical women that I missed? I spent most of the first scene wondering if they were triplets, and then wondering if the episode was going to end up as some kind of Bedtime Stories homage. And then another blonde woman as Sheriff? The main actress did well enough, but I miss how unique Lilith’s original casting was. Not as egregious as the woman-in-white glow down, but along the same lines. There was a great shot of her winking out of the dark in the car.
After all that — I didn’t hate the episode. I LOVED LOVED LOVED the motel and the backdrop to the Sheriff’s office which is apparently in the foyer of a conference centre. While the highs weren’t as high as last week’s (that opener!!!), the lows weren’t as low. There was a lot of good stuff in the final conversation — listening, reacting, Jensen bending forward all lost and “This was supposed to be over.” I wish I’d felt it more — maybe it’s because I’ve lot a lot of emotional connection over the last few years, or maybe it’s because of the way the meta thing makes everything feel lightweight and aren’t-I-clever even when it’s all about tragic consequences, but definitely it’s because of Dean’s blindingly mustard shirt.
Love your comments and I agree with most of them. The thing that I wonder about is how much of the choices that are being made with production (i.e., music choices, sets, casting, spx, etc.,) are due to financial decisions.
//The ongoing thread of trying to get one to kill the other goes back to the original s4/5 story, and came back with Cain, so it feels fitting in that sense, and more importantly it was about Sam and Dean — it hinged on their relationship, it’s resulted in a ton of great brother stuff — so I can’t get too down on the dreams and this part of the story. // In my opinion, this is the most important theme of Season 15. I have no clue as to how SPN will end, but I keep thinking that what they (whoever they are) is trying to create some symmetry in ending the story the way it began with just the brothers. Season one essentially told the story of the Winchesters from 2 guys who went around the country battling monsters to two tragic heroes who saved the world at least twice. Over the past 14 seasons, the Winchester world expanded and got more complicated adding Bobby and Cas and Crowley and Rowena and Garth, and Kevin, and Benny, etc., etc., etc. Now, what I see is that world contracting slowly but surely to just Sam and Dean, sort of back to the beginning. I don’t think the bunker will survive at the end of this season and I’m terrified that Baby also won’t survive. In my weirder moments, I envision an ending a la Thelma and Louise with Sam and Dean going off a cliff with Chuck/God in the back seat, ending it all, but Free Will wins. No hell below, above us only sky. I wouldn’t like it, but I could accept it.
I think much of it must come down to financial considerations (and time considerations), Carolyn! Maybe Speight had ambitious plans to light and shoot that demon!dean attack in an exciting way or set it in outer space or something but they only had x amount of the day for setup, and no budget for another set. Maybe they have to make sets as spacious as possible so that it doesn’t take a lot of time or care to block actors and cameras within them. Maybe Jared and Jensen are so expensive by now they can only afford to pay the score guy for part time work :D Part of me is so mean though and doesn’t care. I want it to be good! haha. (not saying you are trying to excuse them). We all know that not every episode is a masterpiece and there were plenty of issues with older episodes that can be put down to time and budget. But I miss the sense that there was someone behind the scenes smart enough to turn limitations to advantages, which the first three benightedly daylit episodes of the season do not indicate. And I miss the way it didn’t used to look cheap.
Totally agree with you in enjoying the way these episodes are paring things down! It is really exciting and such a relief that the last couple have slowed things down enough for us to wonder about and reflect on what is actually going on inside Sam and Dean and how they feel about each other. The idea that one of them is gonna be forced to kill the other is freaking them out and that’s the stuff I’m here for. I honestly have zero idea and feel completely unable to guess the specifics of how it will end and I am trying to focus on the good stuff and not let my cynicism get in the way.
Jessie – Yes to all of this. Every time I think “That doesn’t feel…right…” I’m always relieved to come here and find that you’ve managed to articulate why.
I’m so glad you noted the music, because that’s not something that I usually pay attention to unless it’s the family theme – but I DID notice it here, in the exact moment that you mentioned, and now I’m wondering if it’s been subtly undermining some of the episodes prior to this one. I think the last time I noticed it as jarring/distracting was in 13.22 Exodus, when Lucifer and Michael turn into Mortal Kombat characters and blast energy balls at each other in the AltUniverse – but maybe that scene deserved those musical choices. The “kooky organ” has been around since the early days, and while I have never exactly enjoyed it, I have accepted it as classic SPN. But C-List Epic Fantasy Score is something different.
I thought New Lilith did as well as a young actress who doesn’t have any history with the show could have. I didn’t think she was bad. I didn’t think she was LILITH. In my ideal world, we would have gotten Sierra McCormick back (who is literally 22, graduating-from-college-age, right now) and had her reprise her old role. She was always my favorite Lilith.
I like that we can hand a supposed werewolf a silver pen and trust the viewers to understand what is happening without verbalizing it. I liked the closing scene, Dean’s (inital) certainty that they won’t kill each other, Sam’s (heartbreaking but completely understandable) assumption that his visions were “messed up PTSD.”
//Maybe Speight had ambitious plans to light and shoot that demon!dean attack in an exciting way or set it in outer space or something// Hahahahaha I always forget that there was five minutes in the finale of season 10 where I genuinely questioned if Dean Winchester Space Cowboy was a thing that season 11 would have in store for us. Let’s see Chuck’s fanfiction for THAT AltUniverse…
//I miss the sense that there was someone behind the scenes smart enough to turn limitations to advantages// This makes me think of Kripke talking about Dream a Little Dream of Me in season 3 – how he had planned out a nightmare sequence for Dean with the character of Jason from the Friday the 13th series, but found out three days before shooting that the studio wouldn’t release the rights for him. So instead the writing team created the dream scene with Lisa and the picnic, which was funny and heartbreaking and incredibly illuminating for Dean’s character. Those are the kind of pivots we used to be able to make on short notice and a tiny budget. I don’t say this to complain. If anything I think season 15 could use that situation as a template – go smaller, deeper, more personal. I would prefer an extended conversation between Sam and Dean in a crappy motel rather than a thousand CGI ghosts flying out of a chasm any day.
I’m so glad I’m not the only one with weird feelings Bethany! :D
Sam’s (heartbreaking but completely understandable) assumption that his visions were “messed up PTSD.”
Isn’t it great that this feels right and in character and logical for the story and heartbreaking about his everyday experience?
I’m curious to have not seen a lot of chatter about this one, here and elsewhere. Maybe the big twist (Lilith — and kudos to them for keeping it under wraps) kind of felt underwhelming and inconsequential, even though I agree with you that the actress did do a pretty god job? Maybe it’s because Sam and Dean are catching up to what we already know so it felt a like a lot of chatty exposition without any huge revelations?
I would prefer an extended conversation between Sam and Dean in a crappy motel rather than a thousand CGI ghosts flying out of a chasm any day.
haha, are you Becky? watch out you don’t get ghosted! Here’s hoping for smaller, deeper, more personal.
// now I’m wondering if it’s been subtly undermining some of the episodes prior to this one. //
Bethany – I’m thinking the same thing. “Undermining” is the perfect way to describe it.
// I like that we can hand a supposed werewolf a silver pen and trust the viewers to understand what is happening without verbalizing it //
HA. Yes, I loved that too!
Really good example in re: Dream a Little Dream – having limits on what they could do ended up being the best possible thing in that case. They created something so perfect, and it was Plan B! I love that.
// The idea that one of them is gonna be forced to kill the other is freaking them out and that’s the stuff I’m here for. //
Yes. This is the good stuff.
// Now, what I see is that world contracting slowly but surely to just Sam and Dean, sort of back to the beginning. //
Carolyn – yes, I’ve been noticing that. I mean, Rowena and Castiel are gone – and, is it me, but it feels like Sam and Dean aren’t even missing them. Sam said something about “calling Cas” – in hell? Am I missing something? – I have very much liked the stripped-down feeling of the last two episodes – all these other extraneous “hunters” out of the way – Jack, Ketch, the whole lot of them – to just have Sam and Dean.
I wish that there was a little more investigation into that, though – like “wow, it’s just you and me now” – like, they’ve been surrounded by people for years. Now it’s just them. Do they have any feelings about that? Regrets? Who do they miss? Is it weird to have it just be them?
I’d rather see THAT dug into a little bit rather than Jensen doing (albeit funny) schtick about eating a hot pepper.
You know?
They just miss all the subtleties and potential opportunities to dig into Sam and Dean a little bit more. The bunker has been full of people for three years – now it’s just them – what does that feel like? Are they uncomfortable? Lonely?
Jessie – thank you so much for this comment. It’s superb and really nails down what feels off to me – particularly in the meta aspect.
// In fact, that’s probably the best way to describe how this falls flat for me: everyone’s just saying everything out loud, and it’s all pretty basic and boring. //
Yes! Nothing left unsaid. And, except for the most obvious thing (Sam’s shoulder hurts) – there’s no real spillover from one episode to the next – I’m not feeling the issue, the theme, the THING – whatever it is – somehow churning in them. You know how Season 2 (just one example) – started out so strong, and you could tell – instantly – that the season was going to be about processing grief – and Sam suddenly becoming gung-ho, and Dean being like “I’m so over it” – and they got mileage out of this for the entire season.
It’s all so scattered now. I’m not FEELING it.
That final conversation was really good and the closest we’ve come to sort of clarifying/homing in on what they want to be doing with this final season. Like: there it was, a conflict between the two of them, the exhaustion of the two of them, and the “I’ve had it” feeling between both of them. This could really be used, mined – in all kinds of interesting ways – but they have to be consistent with it, they have to stick with it, it has to show up in every episode in order for them to nail the landing.
and yeah, the whole “it’s all a fiction and we haven’t been in charge of any of it” is a terrible choice. Not only does it not give them much to fight for – but it negates the past.
// But it gives permission to the writers to write shitty stories that have no weight, and blame it on their God and their meta framework. They can hang all the lampshades on it that they want, doesn’t change the fact that it’s still a shitty story. //
Yes! I REALLY felt that this episode – but felt it a bit in the previous episode too. They’re letting themselves off the hook. They’re saying “Yes, we know, what we’ve set up has been stupid, but at least we’re acknowledging that …” They don’t understand Meta – the meta episodes have always been tricky – and some of them have worked better in the past for me than others – but the common denominator is it was always somehow a weird nerdy celebration of this totally bizarre show we all love that nobody else in the world pays attention to. lol. NOW, it feels like, “Well, we’re kind of forcing you to go along with this Chuck thing – but at least we’ll throw in some nods your way so YOU know that WE know.”
I don’t know. It’s a turn-off.
It’s not a good sign at ALL that during the Becky-Chuck scenes, I remember thinking, “Jeez, where has Becky and Chuck been all this time?” I.e. Becky and Chuck made a good team, and when she critiqued his script – he went back and re-wrote and suddenly the scenes in the werewolf family went to this whole other level and it was super effective. But don’t they see that this just makes them – the people over there – look super lazy? Like, you’ve been checked out for the entire time since Chuck was gone – and you’ve just been waiting for Chuck to come back to create stories with some heart and tension? I don’t know, talk about meta. It was like the episode was commenting on the actual situation we’ve been dealing with for the last 3 years since Dabb took over.
// The way it ends up reading, to me, is: aren’t we clever for writing ourselves into the story, and saying that we’re meanies and crap writers, and aren’t you a chump for wanting something better. //
Yes. That’s exactly how it reads to me too.
I do not understand why they hired three identical girls for the campers – they weren’t even trying to make a POINT about them being doppelgangers – they had no characters, nothing. Again, I’m sorry, but LAZY.
// I loathed the fantasy music score over the gun being melted. That was hideously off-brand. //
THANK you. It was horrifying. My soul and spirit tried to reject it as it was happening.
The music felt very in your face this episode. Underneath every scene. Without any “horror” component whatsoever – which … this was a werewolf episode. It should be horror music. God. They’re BAD at this.
In re: Dean and the ghost peppers. They’re really laying it on thick with Dean eating crap and Sam being prissy – but it feels like schtick – or, not schtick, but just shallow. We’ve discussed this here before – how this new team has fallen back on stereotypes which (at times) makes it seem like they don’t understand Sam and Dean nor do they even like them all that much. They fall back on broad stereotypes – which, honestly, went out by Season 1, episode 2! That being said, Jensen did play it great – he could have gone on for 15 more minutes making it a funny bit, but it felt kind of orphaned, marooned – just a “bit”, that’s all.
I’m still annoyed that the final conversation happened in the bunker, not the Impala.
haha, you know, normally I would be with you 100% but I thought the bunker was the right place to debrief with this one! A cavernous but soft place that’s supposed to be secure, surrounded by all that useless knowledge, feeling like the rug was pulled from under. I liked the freedom it gave for blocking — wouldn’t want to give up JA sagging forward in his chair for anything — and I liked the traditional end-of-episode Sam and Dean drink.
I’m not feeling the issue, the theme, the THING – whatever it is – somehow churning in them.
For me it feels like there’s more here than there has been the last few seasons — there’s some reflection on time passing, Dean is having a metaphysical crisis, and in particular Sam seems to be set up for an arc from despair to — power? confidence? JP’s is really pushing Sam as twitchy and uncertain this season — in contrast to the supremely confident AU versions of him we’re seeing — and it feels so extreme almost that I’m hoping it’s gonna end up feeling usefully in contrast to his endpoint.
[The meta stuff’s] a turn-off.
I’ve seen some talk about how the meta quality of this season is interesting and successful because it posits the story as the villain, the thing that needs to be defeated before our heroes can rest. I like the idea of that fine, but I don’t think it’s the best description of what’s going on because as it’s written so far it’s not about stories, it’s about authors. It’s not about narrative as much as it is about writing and authorial ego. So it’s the author qua capricious god who needs to be defeated, which just, tbh feels tacky to me. And that meta I saw also celebrated the way fans as fellow writers (leaving aside that that fan writers are a small fraction of viewership, albeit a particularly noisy and notorious one) are being included in the final season, which I also think is a misread because if it’s supposed to be the story that’s the enemy, then we are complicit in wanting it to continue. We’re the villains. Again, I’d find that interesting — I prefer Dean looking incredulously and disapprovingly through the camera at me — but I’m just…. not, particularly, at the moment. I want to so much! It may all feel a lot stronger once it’s ended.
Didn’t get to comment on the episode last week, but I overall enjoyed. That opening sequence. Becky!! BENNY.
I found much to enjoy about this weeks episode as well, but also stuff that I didn’t enjoy so much. The dream/vision sequences brought equal parts great joy and also great irritation. (Jessie touched on a lot it so very well!!)
I’m going to throw out my theory on what I think is going on with Sam. As much as I wish they didn’t, the AU worlds are out there and Chuck admitted last season that our Sam and Dean aren’t the only versions. I think Sam is seeing visions of these other worlds and these other Sam and Dean’s and the various ways their stories/endings played out. Chuck told Becky last week he used to be able to see Sam and Dean in his mind and now he can’t. I think he was referring to all the Sam’s and Deans and now Sam has that ability because of the God wound link. It’s coming out for now in his dreams, but it will be interesting to see if it starts happening when he is awake like his original visions did when they started progressing.
What I liked and in some cases loved:
Demon Dean and Lucifer Sam.
Seeing these characters again thrilled my soul. It was the same last week with demon blood Sam. I think in particular I’m enjoying seeing the Sam characters again. It’s such a relief to see Sam bold, confident, and strong again. To seem him speaking clearly with no stammers or hesitation. I miss confident Sam and have for a very long time now.
Brother scenes in the Impala and the motel. We’ve gotten brother conversations in the Impala quite a bit already this season and there will never be a time that I’m not all there for that. That motel was amazing. It felt so much like a callback to earlier seasons. I’m keeping my fingers crossed for the destruction of the bunker this season. I think it might actually happen, but I’m really hoping for sooner rather than right at the end of the show.
The last scene and the last shot. I loved that last brother scene. The utter crushing despair that is beginning to overtake them both. It’s almost been like a ping pong match these past few episodes watching each of them rise in hope and fall in defeat over what is going on. It’s very realistic though when it comes to human emotion and Jared and Jensen are doing an amazing job portraying Sam and Dean’s ups and downs. Every time one of them is down the other one tries to step up and be the positive one. Sam tried last night, but his “or we fight” sounded so soft and weak and utterly unconvincing. I loved it. Give me this over “that’s what we do” or “we’re the ones that save the world” any day. The last shot with the curtains was breathtaking. Sam and Dean on Chuck’s stage, actors in his own private play. I have a whole lot of conflicting emotions about this whole story line….not all of them good. (Again, Jessie put so many of them into words so brilliantly) However, I couldn’t deny the powerfulness of that final shot or the sense of dread that it gave me.
What I didn’t like:
Always the bunker??? Seriously?? No matter what happens, all the confrontations between Sam and Dean occur in the bunker?? (See Jessie’s brilliant post again :-) :-) Now, was the image of Sam being tossed over the railing and crashing into the map table and Demon Dean launching himself down after him absolutely amazing? Yes, yes it was. However, I’m sure they could have done something just as amazing somewhere else.
Lilith. The actress that portrayed her did an ok job, but I had huge issues with the character being there in the first place. First of all, in the episode a couple of weeks ago, Amara talked about how weak Chuck was. She said he was barely above parlor tricks and unable to leave this world. Now all of the sudden he’s able wake up Lilith, pull her from the Empty and get her to do his bidding? The last time we saw the Empty, Billie, Jack and the Empty Entity were all there getting ready to have a talk. Pretty sure the Entity is aware of everybody that is there and I have a difficult time imagining that he would allow Lilith to leave or be be taken. In the episode where Cas woke up in the Empty and had that first conversation with the horribly accented doppleganger the Entity basically told him that the Empty was his domain and God had no influence there whatsoever. So that plot point did not make sense at all.
Maybe I’m jumping the gun on my irritation. Maybe there is an amazing plot reveal that will answer all these questions. Right now though this feels more like another case of sweeping canon under the rug so they could bring back a “cool villain” from the past. Most of the truly powerful villains and allies that the Winchester’s have encountered over the years have been demons or angels. All of them would have been in the Empty when they died. Now that Lilith is back, they can literally have anybody come back that they want to with that convenient excuse that “God did it.”
Overall though I did enjoy the episode. I’m terrified for Sam and Dean, especially Sam, and it feels good to be worried about Sam again. I’ve seen a lot of past guest stars these last couple of episodes. (The parents in last weeks episode were the parents in “Bugs.” The older werewolf brother in this weeks episode was in “Criss Angel Is A Douchebag” (I didn’t actually catch that one, but somebody else did) and the sheriff was John’s old hunting buddy Tara that had the bad knee that ached whenever a demon was around from season 9. I saw a familiar face in the preview for next weeks episode as well. I wonder if show is doing that intentionally this final season. I actually love it when I see familiar faces and have fun looking up the past episode they were in.
oh wow Michelle, douchebag werewolf brother was douchebag “criss angel”? I love that. Actually, bringing all these actors back is turning out to be a meta bit that works for me: a tripartite nod to the fans, the show as an institution, and Chuck’s limited imagination.
I’ve been struggling with stuttery Sam a while now too and I agree it’s interesting to see that it seems to be an active choice on Jared’s part for just our Sam; it seems like, after last week, they’ve finally settled on “Sam was/is depressed/barely functioning” as his storyline for the last three years (I’m not happy about it but it’s something at least) which makes me hope that his arc this season will be one of resurgent strength.
I’m enjoying the puzzling out of whether the dreams are just dreams, or visions or alt-worlds, or readings of Chuck’s current drafts; there are a few indications* that Sam’s consciousness is playing a fairly large part instead of being directly tuned into actual alt-world events — but to what degree he’s tuning into Chuck Radio and reforming glimpses into dreams, or dreaming drafts, or whatever, is maybe still up for grabs? At the same time the visions, in particular the demon!dean one, was not particularly dreamlike, which indicates that maybe he does have a direct line to external events. I’m curious to see where we end up landing.
So yeah, overall I agree — two fairly watchable episodes in a row! Jensen had some really awesome moments this episode — the way he crumbled at the end, phew — and there was a lot to enjoy about it. I kind of feel bad about complaining because normally I’m just moaning that I want the show to be about Sam and Dean and then the second it is I shift the goalposts haha.
*the fact that they’re always in the bunker and look like they do currently, and also the fact that Lucifer Sam is in his white suit even though Detroit would perhaps have happened ten years ago, etc, etc — but then again, it was Dean who saw him in the suit, so maybe it’s not a dream, unless Dean told Sam that detail after The End, etc etc — that cat’s something I can’t explain!
Jessie – interesting point about the dreams always being in the bunker. (Although so much is in the bunker maybe it’s also just the general sense of laziness behind that choice?)
Oh my gosh, how did I not recognize Tara, one of my all-time FAVES from season 9?? Probably because her awesome intimidating arms were hidden under sleeves in this episode. I thought she had SUCH a presence in “First Born” – I was sorry to lose her. Thanks for pointing that out, Michelle!
Tara’s death was one of those deaths on Supernatural that really hurt. You can get immune to it – but that one hurt. She just nailed her scene, her character – loved her attitude, loved her arms, loved the whole thing.
// It’s such a relief to see Sam bold, confident, and strong again. To seem him speaking clearly with no stammers or hesitation. I miss confident Sam and have for a very long time now. //
Michelle, God, yes, I feel the same way. Even him hiding the dreams from Dean felt active – he was activated in that choice.
It thrilled me so much to see Detroit Lucifer again – and to see how easily Jared slipped into it. That almost gentle smile, combined with the lack of warmth in the eyes – it’s a very interesting conception of Evil. It’s so CALM. I mean, how long ago was The End?? And we all remember it so well – it’s such a touchstone moment for the whole series (that episode in general) – so it was so great to see Jared just slip right back into it.
I like how the dreams (if that’s what they are) are mainly from Dean’s point of view – Sam is outside of himself, his consciousness following his brother – until they reach him, the reveal of who he is. I was also thrilled to hear the mention of “demon blood” again – which … bah, I had hoped they might develop when Jack came along – it seemed like a good opportunity when Sam took him under his wing – but alas, nope, it was a dead end.
I loved the motel – I need to freeze frame it to pick up on the details – but it was great. And the sheriff’s office was insane and hilarious.
Good points about the Empty – I was feeling the same way. You bring back Lilith just for kicks, I guess, not caring that the Empty was established – like, no bull shit established – as the place you do not come back from. Yes, I know, Supernatural breaks its rules all the time – but still. It seemed a strange callback, although who knows – maybe it will go somewhere interesting?
I feel, too, like they’re just doing re-treads of stuff already established over 10 years ago. Like, now we have the Upgraded God Gun – to replace the Colt – and everyone wants it – and without it, they’re screwed, and yadda yadda. I don’t like to see them so obviously repeating themselves – it just seems like when they (i.e. the people over there) make stuff up all on their own, it – in general – sucks. Like, the President and the super Max prison and the British Men of Letters – you know, that’s what THEY came up with, and clearly it didn’t work out well – year after year – so now they bring back Chuck – and he has this fabulous weapon with him that everyone wants.
Okay, okay. I’m nitpicking now. It’s just frustrating.
// with the horribly accented doppleganger //
dying laughing …
// I’m terrified for Sam and Dean, especially Sam, and it feels good to be worried about Sam again. //
I completely agree with this! It feels very good!
and wow – good catch on the Bugs parents – I wouldn’t have picked up on that at all. and I knew I recognized that older brother from somewhere – I couldn’t clock it though!
I’m loving bringing back these actors from past episodes.
and I did like the attempt to create a metaphorical bridge between the werewolf brothers – and Sam and Dean. Plus the werewolf suicide! and then Lilith falling on the antlers – I thought it was a terrific bit, mainly because of Dean’s absolutely horrified look on his face. He couldn’t even comprehend it. Very good.
Okay so I finally watched – let me just get down some thoughts and then I’ll read through what everyone else has said.
Overall, I think this was a strong episode – and I realize I am saying that mainly because it was only Sam and Dean, working a case, plus a crazy motel, and etc. I do not have very complex needs – but if NONE of that is happening, or if it’s a RARITY – (as it has been in the last 3 years) than I am not happy. I was very disheartened by the opening episodes – the daytime ghosts and all of the characters onscreen – and freakin Ketch – and blah blah blah … This felt stripped down by comparison and boy have I missed stripped down Supernatural.
So I enjoyed that aspect of it, and I enjoyed the deepening of Sam having these visions – which is really a throwback to Season 4/5 – and an ominous harbinger (?) of things to come (already foreshadowed by Dean’s glimpse into Billie’s book). Unfortunately, I do not have the trust that “the people over there” (as I call them) can keep all of these long-running threads active.
While I rolled my eyes HARD at Lilith’s return – like, come ON – I have to admit that
1. I completely did not see it coming, and – like Dean – I was seduced by that pretty college student. Never once did I think she wasn’t on the level.
2. I thought she did a very good job and it was fun to see an ACTIVE villain – as opposed to a lackadaisacal “whatever” IRONIC villain, like Chuck/God has become.
I have many feelings about the meta-commentary that’s been going on this season. The whole “maybe because it’s stupid, it’s easy” line – I think it was Lilith’s line – Like, there’s a part of me that feels like “No. I’m not going to let you off that easy by a few references that you know what you have done to this show is dramatic and not pleasing to a VAST majority of the fans.” In the past, when they would poke fun at themselves – it felt like we out here were in on the joke. The whole “apparently not many people watch this show” kind of line – even the introduction of Chuck back in the day – I LOVED that. (I have a problem with Chuck being God. Mainly because it wrecks the past. It’s hard to watch those eps now.)
But anyway, the meta NOW has a different feeling. I feel left out of it. Is it working for other people? I feel like they’re saying “Yes, we’ve made some dumb choices, but we KNOW they’re dumb. And just you wait til you see what we have in store for you.” It feels … juvenile. Shallow.
It also feels like they’ve moved so far away from what the show actually IS that any “meta” they drop has nowhere to land anymore. I cringed when she said the word “stupid.” Back in the old meta episodes, they’d NEVER call it “stupid” – in a way, the meta episodes in the past functioned as a reminder of the underlying melodramatic pinnings of the story – the huge “man tear” aspect of it – it allowed for “hero worship” to come into it. Like the alternate Sam and Dean at the fan convention, “Dean’s” monologue at the end about how Dean makes the world a better place … it was very emotional, and it came in small doses. NOW, Sam and Dean make speeches about how great they are every other episode. They don’t stew in self-loathing anymore. And so now all the pep talks ring shallow – because they’re so eager to give themSELVES pep talks. I miss the self-loathing. I mean, think of how their self-loathing was then transformed during the Fan Fiction episode – how powerful it was. The girls in the play showed them their lives, showed them what their lives meant and they were open enough to accept it.
Now? It’s all been frittered away with the two of THEM telling everyone – even strangers – “We’re like superheroes. We make the world a better place.”
Ugh. There’s no way to be meta with THAT except to say “Yeah, it’s all been a little bit stupid” – and I don’t know, it’s … hurtful that we’ve come to this?
I look forward to reading everyone else’s commentary.
Oh, and yay for big long dramatic conversation at the end – but BAH IT’S IN THE BUNKER.
Why do the people over there not understand the show?
The BUNKER is not the place of truth-telling and sharing. THE IMPALA IS.
Dammit.
Also: is it me or is the music underneath the episode completely out of control and awful?