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Arrrrrggggghhhhh… no! Why? ::shaking fist at TV::
Every Frankenstein needs to die.
Franken-fricking-stein. Didn’t see it coming. Yes, they all must die.
And where are the daughters of Frankenstein? All those sons, cousins, boys. What did you do with all the girls, “Gambit”?
Exactly!
Spoilers. I’m guessing Charlie had an amazing breakthrough in the Book of the Damned and somehow managed to upload herself to the “deathstar” mega computer. Yep, yep, yep…that is NOT the last we’re going to see of Charlie. Puhleeeez!!!
After all the conversation in the last thread about Cas & Crowley being “adrift” I have been thinking how great it would be if Charlie became a regular. She manages to bring such pizazz to every ep she’s been in.
Is it gonna be like Charlie’s Angels where she sends the guys out on missions by text? Sort of appropriate for Charlie to become a virtual cyber hunter on World Wide Web… She did hack NORAD when she was a teen afterall.
So on Supernatural dead isn’t the end and anything’s possible. So much easier to imagine these possibilities than dwell on that hunter’s pyre in next week’s previews. When Cain said Dean would kill Sam we couldn’t imagine a scenario where he would even come close, but getting Charlie killed…might be just the ticket. They had to come come up with something really bad. It’s all your fault, Sam, and you shoulda listened to Dean. Personally I love it when the boys throw down. I felt ripped off with Sam’s dislocated shoulder at beginning of the season. Can’wait.
Spoilers. I’m guessing Charlie had an amazing breakthrough in the Book of the Damned and somehow managed to upload herself to the “deathstar” mega computer. Yep, yep, yep…that is NOT the last we’re going to see of Charlie. Puhleeeez!!!
After all the conversation in the last thread about Cas & Crowley being “adrift” I have been thinking how great it would be if Charlie became a regular. She manages to bring such pizazz to every ep she’s been in.
Is it gonna be like Charlie’s Angels where she sends the guys out on missions by text? Sort of appropriate for Charlie to become a virtual cyber hunter on World Wide Web… She did hack NORAD when she was a teen afterall.
So on Supernatural dead isn’t the end and anything’s possible. So much easier to imagine these possibilities than dwell on that hunter’s pyre in next week’s previews. When Cain said Dean would kill Sam we couldn’t imagine a scenario where he would even come close, but getting Charlie killed…might be just the ticket. They had to come come up with something really bad. It’s all your fault, Sam, and you shoulda listened to Dean. Personally I love it when the boys throw down. I felt ripped off with Sam’s dislocated shoulder at beginning of the season. Can’wait.
//I felt ripped off with Sam’s dislocated shoulder at beginning of the season// so true. It’s going to get ugly. Speaking of ugly, that last scene with Charlie, that was messed up.
I was like, Charlie’s so untouchable in this show, that poor-man’s-Jensen-Ackles-Frankenloser is essentially harmless. But that last shot was pretty horrific and unambiguous.
Hahaha, “I’ve had worse”. The zoom shot on the arm hanging there was rather Pythonesque
ha ha yes, those cuts!
And kudos SPN! I have been trying to think of the classic monsters that the boys haven’t defeated yet and there you go…Frankenstein. Not just one, but lots of em. Well played.
*Can’t wait.
Didn’t someone say “The Sorrows of Young Sam” in a previous thread? How about “The Unbelievable Shit Ton Of Guilt of Young Sam”? Are we leading to a Sam suicide by Dean’s hand in the finale?
“I need a minion!” At least Crowley got a funny line..
Also, return of the Sam POS transpo. Even Charlie called him on it. Dude, you have a garage full of awesome vintage cars so why do you choose these God awful generic vehicles? The Sam hair shirt.
Because I can’t talk about the end of the episode and Charlie just yet (nope, can’t do it), can we talk about creepy aggressive Dean pacing behind Sam in the library? His actions were more like a predatory tiger than someone who is hurt and pissed, like he is waiting to pounce.
this is really, like, a total bummer, so all I kinda wanna think about is how scary Dean got with Sam there.
Looks like next week is Dean in “scorched Earth, pile the bodies over there, kicking ass and chewing bubblegum” mode. That is the hottest Dean and I can’t wait.
That side eye that Dean gives Sam in the promo for next week? At Charlie’s funeral? Gives me the chills.
//“scorched Earth, pile the bodies over there, kicking ass and chewing bubblegum” mode. //
Yes please and thank you.
I want those Frankly-My-Dears done and dusted quick smart, and if Dean can look lethally hot doing it, I have no complaints.
Scorched earth hot, yes. Also when he pulled his gun on the Steins in the alley without dropping the pizza. I like a man who can handle weaponry and brings home dinner.
Anyone else old enough to remember the Virginia Slims commercial, “She can bring home the bacon (ba-da-bump), fry it up in the pan…”? This is like the 21st century answer – totally hot! And now that stripper song and accompanying images are stuck in my head.
Yup, I remember. Thanks for the earworm, ha.
Did Dean secure Eldon Stein in the trunk, put away the gun and then throw the pizza box in the passenger seat? Because Sam is waiting at home for pizza.
“Don’t objectify me.”
//Dean may treat women like objects,…but it feels a little bit different when the shoe is on the other foot, and he does NOT like it, no SIR. I did not give you permission to ogle at me like that, and I am sick of it, and so just stop it, you.//
—Sheila’s piece “On Jensen Ackles”
I don’t know, you guys… Right now I don’t really care, I’m just waiting for next week. I’m not convinced by the Charlie Situation. I mean, don’t they have a guy in full-on angel mode ready to come when you yell “Castiel” who could resurrect her? Otherwise, why is he even here? His phone calls were ridiculous. A fucking angel of the lord who doesn’t know what to do with two humans bickering? Come. On. Do some light, show your big wings, do something. Once upon a time, you knew how to be impressive.
If Charlie stays dead, it just seems to me like a cheap trick to provoke things. Kevin II. I’ll probably be more pissed than sad.
They were some stuff I liked in this episode: Crowley having a conversation with a hamster wearing a necklace? Sooo stupid.
Frankeinsteins? OK. Could be cool.
Yes, Dean was predatory. But if I felt like the people close to me kept lying to me, MoC or not, I would be too. Sam has been saying for weeks that Dean is getting worse, but I don’t see it. Do you? Isn’t it just Sam seeing what he fears and then provoking it? I’m not saying Dean is OK, he’s clearly not. Just, I don’t see him getting worse. He actually seems pretty healthy to me, you know, for a doomed guy. You know what I mean?
“Is there a woman I don’t know about?”
Sam’s genuine reaction is pretty telling. That’s so sad.
//If Charlie stays dead, it just seems to me like a cheap trick to provoke things. Kevin II. I’ll probably be more pissed than sad.//
I agree! It seemed almost . . . anticlimactic?
I agree that it’s very weird to have Cas powered up and absolutely incapable of assisting here. He’s an angel, he can’t find her in a motel that is probably less than 20k away? And when they get her location he can’t zap her there?
I quite enjoyed Crowley and Madame Hamster. I think the silliest thing was Dean’s hooray-for-murder-straw-sluuuuup-pan-to-headlights-behind-them-DUNDUNDUN. So ridiculous, I think I loved it.
After the slurp, when the camera moved back to Elton following them, all I could think was “that bastard better not damage Baby.”
Crowley speaks hamster, he’s a demon of parts.
I’m not worried about the car, WHAT IS THE FATE OF DEAN’S PIZZA???
Very important question, yes.
Forget the fate of Dean’s pizza. Why is he only getting ONE pizza? Does he see how big he and Sam are? Is one pizza going to be enough to fill them up? Did they agree on one topping? Because if Sam wanted veggies and Dean wanted meats, you can’t mix them together, that’s totally pizza taboo. And you can’t do half veggie/half meat because then there’s only 4 – 6 slices each, depending on how the pizza place cuts their pies, and that is SO not enough for two burly guys over 6′.
Also, was that not the sketchiest-looking pizza place in the history of pizza parlors? Did Dean get a side of botulism with his pie?
//Is there a woman I should know about?// When was the last time Sam had sex? Are we talking the soulless I’ll bang anything year?
//Kevin II// I’m pissed too about this and Castiel better fly his butt to that motel room.
//Every Frankenstein needs to die.// Yep, just point Dean towards Shreveport and stand back. I was also struck by how JA played that confrontation scene with Sam–definitely more villain than pissed off brother. Cold fire.
I wish I could formulate coherent thought right now, but it appears to be beyond me. To give the writers credit, they foreshadowed plenty, even at the beginning–my husband noted the pallor of Charlie’s face when she was meeting Sam in the dark parking lot. And I understand the reason for it in terms of story. Still feeling sucker-punched.
//Sam has been saying for weeks that Dean is getting worse, but I don’t see it. Do you?//
Nope. What I see is Dean kinda being sensible and Sam going batshit. Is this what I’m supposed to be seeing? If not, what am I missing here? All thoughts welcome.
//“Is there a woman I don’t know about?”//
My favourite line in the episode.
//What I see is Dean kinda being sensible and Sam going batshit. Is this what I’m supposed to be seeing?//
I think this is what we’re supposed to see. I have a lot of thoughts about this that go back to the Werther box episode that are going to have to wait until after I’m done with my final tonight. I think there’s a metaphor here that can be read in a few different ways.
well, you know…all those times when Dean has those violent screaming dreams and kills bunches of dudes and confesses in his subconscious to Benny that he can feel himself slipping away and will need to be euthanaised and tells Sam repeatedly that he’s going to punch things until his imminent Cainification kinda sway me. Just as convincing for me is the energy he gives off. Especially when he’s being cheerful. I feel like it’s manic and intense and way more Demon!Dean than Classic Dean.
//well, you know…all those times when Dean has those violent screaming dreams and kills bunches of dudes and confesses in his subconscious to Benny that he can feel himself slipping away and will need to be euthanaised//
Good reminders, Jessie. I think I had a bit of a brainwipe. Because you know, charliefeelingz. :-(
I think the tragic irony mutecypher’s getting at below has a part to play narratively as well, but I think it’s definitely happening regardless of any of Sam’s in/actions.
Charliefeelings are very disruptive :-( do not operate any heavy machinery mkay?
// do not operate any heavy machinery//
Yes, today’s word is “gobsmacked.”
I don’t see Dean getting worse, either. I thought that Cas was completely wrong last week with his criticism of Dean smacking around the miracle-pimp in the bar. The guy insulted Claire and deserved a little head-to-table behavior modification. So everyone is misreading Dean.
I think Dean was getting his Buddha on: he’s trying to change from within. He took Sam’s advice from earlier about how he could control the Mark. Then Sam proceeded to act as if Dean was unable to follow that path. And now he’s got a Whole Lotta Vengeance queued up. Smooth one Sam.
Yes, yes, yes!!!
Microsoft Windows 8 Surface Tablet: takes forever to decrypt stuff; breaks easily.
And just smashing it won’t destroy the data on the HD/SSD, whatever they use on those toys.
Death is not the end. Death is not the end. Death is not the end. Death….
//all those times when Dean has those violent screaming dreams and kills bunches of dudes and confesses in his subconscious to Benny that he can feel himself slipping away and will need to be euthanaised and tells Sam repeatedly that he’s going to punch things until his imminent Cainification kinda sway me//
That’s what I meant by « not OK » . :)
Remember when Cas was gone for a few seconds, and when asked “Where did you look?” replied “Everywhere”? I’m pretty I saw that in an actual episode, right? Now he panics and relies on cell phones. I liked him better when his people skills were rusty and he was efficient. That guy obviously doesn’t know how to angel properly anymore.
//That guy obviously doesn’t know how to angel properly anymore.//
You are the BEST at verbing those nouns!
Well, I learnt from the best.
//Sam has been saying for weeks that Dean is getting worse, but I don’t see it. Do you?//
//He actually seems pretty healthy to me, you know, for a doomed guy.//
Dean is coping/Sam is losing his sh*t. At the beginning of the season I said that I wanted to see Dean be responsible for his own “cure”. Even more so now I want to see Dean drawing on some incredible inner strength to get through this and I hope that’s a little of what we’re seeing here. As for Sam, seriously, he’s the one I’m really worried about. What’s wrong with him that he’s lost all faith and respect for his brother? He should be encouraging him. I really don’t like Sam this way. Why hasn’t Dean waved the BS flag with Sam ages ago. I read an article where JA said that as Demon Dean takes over he just doesn’t care. I don’t like him that way, but I guess its better than thinking he’s too stupid to figure it out. At this rate Dean’s going to have to save them both.
//can we talk about creepy aggressive Dean pacing behind Sam in the library?//
This is the tension between Sam and Dean that we were promised the minute they took the story down the Cain and Abel path. It was alluded to in season 4 (I think) during the Michael/Lucifer story arc. I will be seriously disappointed if they don’t deliver some hard core brother on brother conflict and not just a one and done fist fight.
Wow, I really contradicted myself there.
As for the Sam, Charlie, Cass “Dean love-fest” all I can say is thank goodness for Rowena’s “I barely know the man” to end that collossal awkwardness. Somebody please punch Sam in the nose. That whole collaboration thing was ridiculous and agree that Cass was worse than wasted space. Crowley continues to provide the comic relief between the human dartboard and the hamster confidentials.
//I’m guessing Charlie had an amazing breakthrough in the Book of the Damned and somehow managed to upload herself to the “deathstar” mega computer.//
//I can’t talk about the end of the episode and Charlie just yet //
When I wrote this about Charlie last night I wasn’t serious and was really trying to avoid thinking about Charlie as dead, but I have thought about her last moments a lot since then. Those terrifying moments in the bathroom watching the upload line move across the screen. Charlie DID learn something big from the book. How perfect for Charlie not too sit and wait to be rescued by S&D, or even to be resurrected by an angel…again. Like Charlie’s room in “heaven” would be that coffee shop with free wifi…NOT. She is our Charlie who is a little badass, but mostly crazy smart. Of course she would be in control of her own destiny and not just a victim of Franken-violence. She would of course realize that she is physically out matched and find a way to upload her conciousness to cyberspace. It is the perfect answer for Charlie.
//Every Frankenstein needs to die.//
Enough of the deep, angsty thoughts. Thinking of Dean kicking some Frankenbutt…oh yeah, better now. Bring it on.
//Charlie’s room in “heaven” would be that coffee shop with free wifi// and her mother calls her every hour just to check in that she’s alright and they chat about what Charlie’s reading right now
Aaaawwww
I did like Sam the Eagle spotting the Styne tattoo on Eldon’s arm as he looked at the security footage. He’s got 20-01 vision.
And what was the name that Amy the Rat, I mean, Olivette the Hamster, gave Crowley?
Also, what is up with Cas’ power? As Lyrie said, he used to be able to look everywhere in the time it takes to say “Rumpelstiltskin.” And he couldn’t heal Amelia last week. Another problem to solve.
OOOOOH, I just had a thought. A happy thought. Maybe Ash and Charlie will meet in heaven. That would be a critical mass of awesome.
Maybe in a bar,
Drinkin’ PBR,
Wishin’ on a star,
Both trying to pick up
the bartend-ar
Or Pamela Barnes, who strolls into Ash’s heaven and says “who’s the cute little redhead?”
Sounds like the beginning of a good joke.
“Ash, Charlie, and Pamela stroll into a bar. The bartender asks ‘What’ll you have?'”
FAV
And Rowena. Getting Coleridge
But oh! that deep romantic chasm which slanted
Down the green hill athwart a cedarn cover!
A savage place! as holy and enchanted
As e’er beneath a waning moon was haunted
By woman wailing for her demon-lover!
Or Plath?
I sought my image
in the scorching glass,
for what fire could damage
a witch’s face?
You just blasted me from the past. In highschool my teacher offered a point of extra credit for every 10 lines of iambic pentameter that we could memorize. I got 13.2 points for that one by STC. It was not a chore. The imagry is so hauntingly beautiful. Was anyone else taught that it went unfinished because a bill collector interrupted his drug induced reverie? Thank you, mutecypher!
//Also, what is up with Cas’ power?//
All I can think is that it was only a small piece of his grace, enough to blow up a library, but not enough to actually do anything useful, apparently. Metatron needs to hurry up and gank the little winged doormouse. Then we’d have another collassal screwup for Dean to blame on Sam.
I’m going to watch the Golem episode now because that always cheers me up.
RE: Castiel’s powers. From what I can tell, none of the angels have “full” power since Fraggle cast them all out of heaven and that spell was has not been reversed. At the very least all of their wings are damaged, which is probably why they can’t just zap everywhere anymore (hence all the driving) and have to use that gateway/doorway into Heaven. When Castiel’s Grace was restored, his shadow-wings are clearly damaged. I’d say that angels cast out of Heaven by the spell, and Cas at the very least, would be considered cut off from Heaven’s power…so that would also be why Cas can’t bring Charlie back from the dead (he probably can’t time-travel anymore, either).
(Also, I don’t think Cas could heal Amelia because those wounds were caused by an angel…doing something magic-y…)
Yes I totally agree with this. Plus, Metatron told Hannah early in the season that only “some” of Cas’s grace was left…just a little. So I’m sure all of this will be the “reason” why Cas wasn’t able to find Charlie and had to call the Winchesters, and why he won’t be able to resurrect her.
This has been the problem with Cas basically from season 6 on. He is so powerful from the way he was written in seasons 4 and 5 that the show has had to come up with ways to keep him weakened all these years so that he can’t swoop in and be the quick fix or save. The problem with this is that his character has pretty much become useless in most regards. I like Cas but I totally agree with Sheila in what she has been saying all season. I’m over him and if the show isn’t going to do anything significant with his character then I don’t know why they keep him around. I keep flip flopping on whether I think the show is getting ready to kill him off. I was leaning towards that a few episodes ago when Metatron was basically asking him what his purpose was anymore, but they may be intentionally going down a Cas is useless path to be building towards something. Who knows. Guess we will find out in 2 more episodes.
Last night….ugh. I always looked forward to the episodes that I knew Charlie was going to be in and dreading them in fear that what happened last night would happen. About halfway through I had a sinking feeling that something bad was going to happen. When Sam uttered the word love out loud to Dean I knew my feeling was about to become a reality. A Winchester uttering the word love out loud with said other Winchester actually alive, conscience, and in the actual vicinity to be able to hear it spoken is one of those huge things that many fans have been dreaming about for years and written enough fan fiction about to fill an entire library. I knew show wasn’t going to give something like that without a horrible price being paid.
Now in the future any episode that has Jody Mills, Donna, the Ghost Facers, or Garth..I will be watching in fear and dread. :-(
//This has been the problem with Cas basically from season 6 on.//
Yep. I still maintain that they should have left Cas human at the end of season 5. Or basically human, with some residual spiritual/psychic powers (for example, say he could still hear Angel Radio–like Anna–and/or could tell if someone was a vampire, werewolf, etc, just by looking at them…basically see and hear things normal humans can’t, but without any power to do much about it. So no magic healing. No insta-travel. No super strength, etc.).
The END of his character arc should have been him restored as an angel. Had the show ended in season 5, making Cas an angel again was fine. But the show didn’t end. And Cas has been floundering since.
// He is so powerful from the way he was written in seasons 4 and 5 that the show has had to come up with ways to keep him weakened all these years so that he can’t swoop in and be the quick fix or save. //
I think Robert Singer or someone said something like that in one of the commentary tracks. That once they created Castiel as powerful as he was – they had to find ways to hold him back, limit his involvement, because he was too powerful. He could just sweep into any situation and make it better with a sweep of his hand.
So yeah. They kind of screwed themselves creating a Being so all-powerful. I can imagine the conversations in the writers’ room and the diagrams made of where his angel powers start and where they end.
These Castiel theories/thoughts are really interesting. I kept thinking that another “ending” for Castiel would be him – as a human being – working in the 711 or wherever that was – and starting a new life. Awkward and vulnerable, but doing what he had to do. That also would have “worked” – not for the Destiel fans obviously – but in general, that could have been a very satisfying and emotional ending for a well-loved character.
Either way, Castiel’s power has to be … managed. It’s either way too powerful – or – he’s powerless – and then what the hell is he doing hanging around and making things worse?
He did have a funny line-reading last night and I can’t remember which one it was. I liked his “blood sugar” assessment but there was another one – it escapes me, the rest of the episode wiped it out.
May and Michelle –
Yeah, I think your angel power diagnosis is correct. I was hoping that a return to clueless Cas signaled a return to powerful Cas.
me too
Yes, me too.
I’ve been semi-lurking for a couple of months now. Sheila’s SPN posts have been richly informative and the commenters here are smart, funny and level-headed. And/or off-the-rails deranged. (Tomato/tomahto). It’s been a joy to read!
I have feelings about this episode. Pat summed it up pretty well in the first comment of this post:
//Arrrrrggggghhhhh… no! Why? ::shaking fist at TV:://
The momentous event at the end of this episode was marred for me by the mediocre plotting and dialogue. Too much bland baddie & Idiot Plot-ness, not enough character sparkle.
From the season arc standpoint, the writers’ assignment for this episode was to ramp up the Stein menace and set up Dean & Sam for the finale. For me, their writing is too Surface-y here. (Hey, product placement! Can we have our money now? (rimshot.))
To paraphrase Captain Mal: Well my days of not taking this writing team seriously have finally come to a middle.
The patriarchal Frankensteins were especially blah(nd) to me. Dick Roman was way more of an entertainingly menacing entitled arrogant asshat than any of these guys were. (I can tell something’s very, very wrong when an episode makes me miss the Leviathans.)
Also, they could have eliminated one Idiot Plot point by chaining up both hands of the eye-scooping Stein. (Did they ever explain why they didn’t?) There would have even been the added bonus of the Python-esque scene of him knocking on Charlie’s door with his head. Does the show not do sick/twisted/gross/funny morphing into true menace/tragedy anymore? (Seriously, with the right actor, camera angles, etc., the guy could have been badass, even without hands.)
Is it my imagination, or was this episode structured to be something like a French Farce? You know, with Charlie and Rowena as bickering codebreakers, Cas as their clueless handler and Sam trying to keep everything off Dean’s radar. Weelllll – that’s not what happened. It might’ve worked for me if they had found a way for Sam to be exasperated/stressed instead of freaked/stressed. (Well, maybe I was the one who was freaked. I’ll have to rewatch it later.) Nevertheless, the leaden weight of the Stein case would have made sure the episode was not as funny as it could have been.
Man, it would have been amazing if the show had pulled off a comedic episode this late in the season, only to finish it off with a heart-stabby ending. There was a lot of comic potential in the Charlie/Rowena scenes. And character potential. Charlie canonically has a dark side that Rowena could have tapped into.
In my alternate universe, the Fabulous Red-headed Girls’ Club convened that day and their first order of business was to concoct a spell to create a super-duper decoy Charlie capable of fooling everyone, while both founding members went off to talk smack about patriarchal societies over junk food.
// the commenters here are smart, funny and level-headed. And/or off-the-rails deranged. //
So that means that some of us are just deranged? I don’t know how to take it. But you know… :)
// (I can tell something’s very, very wrong when an episode makes me miss the Leviathans.) //
I hear ya. Although, yes, I really loved Dick Roman. What an ass. But he was right about Charlie’s sparkle.
Oh, Charlie. (don’t make fun of me guys. I’m slooow.)
//Also, they could have eliminated one Idiot Plot point by chaining up both hands of the eye-scooping Stein.//
I think Sam foolishly took too many chains with him when he locked up Rowena and they only had on cuff in the bunker. Or maybe he kept one chain in the trunk of that POS he keeps driving, in case he needed Cas to give him a tow – with Cas’ gold POS.
//There was a lot of comic potential in the Charlie/Rowena scenes.//
Yes, they merely got on each other’s nerves. I initially assumed that Rowena was baiting Charlie for some purpose of her own, but it appears that the only purpose was plot-oriented – to cause Charlie to get sufficiently frustrated she had an excuse to leave the dungeon so she could get killed.
I think it was out of character for charlie to make such a serious mistake. You know big bads are after you, specifically, so you decide to leave because someone is irritating? And the one hand chained. . .very heavy, obvious constructs to move the plot forward.
However, ever the optimist, I’m hoping there will be a reason. Perhaps Charlie uploaded her consciousness and will become a “Goddess in the computer” (kind of like Willow from Buffy, another red-head.) Or Rowena has a plan, or even Rowena and Charlie had a plan. . .Hoping. . .
// Yes, they merely got on each other’s nerves. I initially assumed that Rowena was baiting Charlie for some purpose of her own, but it appears that the only purpose was plot-oriented – to cause Charlie to get sufficiently frustrated she had an excuse to leave the dungeon so she could get killed. //
Yes. Very frustrating.
//The patriarchal Frankensteins were especially blah(nd) to me.//
And why are the Frankensteins Cajun or maybe just Louisiana rednecks? That’s almost an insult to Benny. I guess they didn’t want them to be too much like the failed “bloodlines”.
//Dick Roman was…// the biggest, dickiest dick of all dicks. He had the creepiest smile with eyes 1/4 closed…made my skin crawl.
And that sliver of shark teeth Dick would show when he smiled. The Leviathans didn’t get their due. Such pure capitalists with Dean-adjacent disdainful at the lack of subjugation of the weak and the “bibbing” of Levis, which was kind of like a nasty exit interview, “I’m sorry but you haven’t lived up to company expectations so we’re going to have to let you go.” I really loved Dick too (which is something you can only say to another SPN fan with a straight face).
The awkward one chain. How do you make it more awkward? Oh yeah, let’s have Eldon stand there with his hand in his pocket while being interrogated like he’s some casual Cajun catalog model. Ugh.
//And/or off-the-rails deranged// welcome to the party
// Oh yeah, let’s have Eldon stand there with his hand in his pocket while being interrogated like he’s some casual Cajun catalog model. //
Okay, I’m laughing out loud.
You all are making me feel better, reading all of these comments. Thank you!!
//casual Cajun catalog model.//
So funny!!! And so right…
(Here’s me cleverly posting a hyperlink to a picture of Gene Wilder trying to be suave in his smoking jacket from Young Frankenstein…if I only knew how to do that clever thing.)
Somehow my complicated feelings about this episode have become intertwined with my not-complicated feelings about the UK general election. To sum up, this is NOT the outcome I wanted.
Helena, here’s for you.
That’s very, very sweet, Lyrie.
I was thinking more on the lines of “KILL THEM WITH FIRE!!!!!!” but sandwiches will also do ;-)
Is that better?
Lyrie, you’re my kind of deranged.
// Lyrie, you’re my kind of deranged.//
Aw, Mutecypher!
RE Charlie: I have to admit that I’ve never been the biggest fan of Charlie, so her death doesn’t bother me in of itself. HOWEVER. Could she not have gone off on her own like every stupid victim in a horror movie? It was needlessly dumb. I’m not impressed.
I’m also just tired of SPN killing off all Sam and Dean’s friends. But that’s a rant for another day.
(My indifference to Charlie is mostly cynicism on my part and isn’t really fair. Having seen the backlash against so many of the female characters except, coincidentally, mostly the ones that fans didn’t perceive as potential romantic partners for either Sam or Dean, I found myself rather unimpressed with Charlie’s addition to the show. I think I would have liked her better had I not been aware of SPN fandom, as she came around at the height of my annoyance with it.)
Very sad. I did see it coming – the only reason she started to rise in the narrative was so they could kill her off. I started feeling uneasy when she was connected to the Book of the Dead. It seemed ominous.
Agreed on the not-making-sense of her going off to a motel. She couldn’t put headphones on to drown Rowena out? And yes, to the WTF Castiel not being able to handle two bickering women nonsense. I did like, though, that he kept calling Sam and Sam had to hide it as though it were a lover calling him – which, again, makes no sense because why would you be weird about hiding a call from your lover? Typical Winchester weirdness around this area. It just points out the unnatural claustrophobia these two guys live in. That whole “you got a woman I don’t know about” thing … and Sam’s reaction. Very well done.
There are some interesting things going on here about their relationship. Mute cypher (I think?) has been talking about how this season it’s really been Sam who is “off” – not Dean – and I agree with that. Or at least in the most recent episodes as Sam is all “Dean’s getting worse” when all Dean is doing is slurping on a straw and cracking jokes. Yes, nightmares, and yes, massacring innocents – but that was a while ago. It seems like he’s gotten better but Sam can’t see it. That’s interesting.
As always, I enjoy when their relationship hits these bumps in the road. Although I have loved the new depth and openness between them in Season 10 too. We all knew that couldn’t last. Nor would I want it to because, Yawn.
I am having a hard time believing that the Winchesters would never have gotten wind of the “Stein” family. But I suppose they are famously discreet. All boys, too? Why? There had better be a reason. They all look alike to me. I can’t tell them apart and thought for a second that it was a lost episode of the doomed “Bloodlines” series.
// Having seen the backlash against so many of the female characters except, coincidentally, mostly the ones that fans didn’t perceive as potential romantic partners for either Sam or Dean, //
That section of the fandom is extremely annoying and childish – not to mention misogynistic – when it comes to that.
I do love Charlie though.
Crowley is boring the shit out of me – even Mark Sheppard seems bored – and it pains me to say that!
Looking forward to seeing what happens next though, I’ll tell you that.
Will more carefully read all your comments later. Crazy day! Thanks for showing up here!
I think the Styne’s may have no women in their bloodline because they reproduce via body part replacement. So women may birth ’em, but they don’t give them rights to recreate a la Frankenstien. Women are ‘disposable’ (take that fans!). That means the power hierarchy is totally male. Maybe even a familial link to the Boss. This family is *all* brothers. Just guessing…
Thinking of Charlie: did they take her laptop? Because even with the hard drive they should have kept her alive to interrogate her about what she did. Makes no sense to kill and dump her. So. Either Big Daddy is going to be pissed with the boys for stupidity, or they have a part of Charlie to clone. Would a clone have memory? Maybe they did clone her and killed the clone to stop anyone looking for her. Then they could question her for as long as it took to decrypt the hard dive – that’s makes more sense than just killing such a source of valuable information.
Shelley’s Dr. Frankenstein discovered the secret to reanimating a corpse. So if Charlie discovered the secret…
Sam & Dean’s Outlook inbox:
Subj: Read this BEFORE you do anything, Bitches!!!
Guys,
Cracked the code from the BOD, cause I’m THAT good. Whatever you do, DO NOT burn my body. I will need it to reanimate myself using the spell on page 7. I uploaded my conciousness to the web and it may take me a hot minute to figure out how to get it back into my body so put it on ice for me please. My buddy, Zandril from Moondor runs a chryogenics storage facility for rich people in Santa Monica. Remember, no pyre!!!
Chill, bitches
Hope swells through my heart.
// My buddy, Zandril from Moondor runs a chryogenics storage facility for rich people in Santa Monica. //
Ha!!
Brilliant. So first Charlie, then Franken-Sam?
Tragically…
Dean: Sam, this is no time to be checking your email. The wood is wet and I had to use 3 gallons of lighter fluid which is now evaporating while you screw with your computer. It’s your fault she’s dead and now you’re too busy to honor a fallen comrade. Seriously, Sam? Is the mark on me or on you? Any day now, it’s a long drive to Shreveport.
// // Having seen the backlash against so many of the female characters except, coincidentally, mostly the ones that fans didn’t perceive as potential romantic partners for either Sam or Dean, //
That section of the fandom is extremely annoying and childish – not to mention misogynistic – when it comes to that.//
//”Is there a woman I should know about?” When was the last time Sam had sex?//
Two good looking brothers in their 20s without attachments & fighting evil has been hot, but pushin’ 40 starts looking creepy. I completely agree that this aversion to long term relationships for S & D is annoying and childish. I get the problem of creating characters that are “good enough for our boys”. That sounds like every over protective mother ever.
All the angst over the mark and everyone seems to have forgotten that the answer was written into episode 9.11, “First Born”. The “cure” for Cain was his falling in love and getting married. OK, that’s a wee bit corny (and by that I mean completely), but I didn’t write it.
If you’re looking for a new kind of brotherly conflict, how about a season 11 love triangle? Lets see…for Sam she would have to be intelligent and a hopeless caretaker like Dean because, face it, Sam is an adorable lost puppy who needs nurturing. For Dean she would have to be sweet and wholesome because, obviously his craving for pie is a metaphor for his deep need for the love of a good woman. She would also need to be good looking and fun loving. Not gonna happen, but could be fun, right?
Some of the reasons I feel like they wouldn’t actually end Charlie’s character have little to do with the show. There’s huge pressure for strong female characters in show biz (ie: female superheroes); also positive lgbt characters, of which, Charlie is the way it should be done. She is allowed to be an amazing spark whose identity is not defined by her sexuality, rather than an awkward “token” forced into the narrative to satisfy social correctness. In SPN it happens to feed into that previously mentioned attitude that doesn’t want to threaten the boys’ availability. Finally, Felicia Day is an advocate for more strong female characters in the video gaming industry. I guess it just doesn’t make sense “politically” for a show that is trying to remain fresh and relevant after 10 seasons to end her character. It makes more sense for them to “level up” her character. Maybe it’s wishful thinking on my part.
Rant is finished, cleaning up for company is not…
// his craving for pie is a metaphor for his deep need for the love of a good woman.//
It’s all so clear. Mr. Ray Charles knows what Dean needs.
Me too, Ray.
Yes he does.
// The “cure” for Cain was his falling in love and getting married. //
Well, there is a huge contingent here (of which I am a member) who thinks that the cure for Dean in general – mark or no mark – would be to knock up some broad and get to work on being a Dad.
May? Natalie? Fellow Sister-wives?
I thought that long before the “mark” came along. Perhaps it is because he is such a hopeless case. He’s of no use to anyone if he’s not “of use” to others. So. Fatherhood. Get cracking, Winchester.
Yeah, though, poor Sam. He needs to have some sex, like, yesterday.
Yes, absolutely!!! Ep 1.3 Sam makes fun of Dean for saying “I love kids”, but then Dean proceeds to get down on the kid’s level and totally connect in a way that Sam just can’t. Being a dad would “save” Dean. As for Amelia & Lisa, completely agree…loved them. Please not the picket fence, I’d love to see a completely disfunctional, messed up family for Dean. Sam needs to be recruited by the FBI to reestablish the discreet branch of the Bureau originally founded by Elliott Ness that hunts monsters. Dean can be a consultant.
// Please not the picket fence, I’d love to see a completely disfunctional, messed up family for Dean. Sam needs to be recruited by the FBI to reestablish the discreet branch of the Bureau originally founded by Elliott Ness that hunts monsters. Dean can be a consultant. //
I love all of these ideas. Haha.
And yeah, I don’t think the picket fence would work at all at this point.
I’ve actually liked all the women Dean has connected with this season – even when he was a Demon. They cast interesting women opposite him – lOVED the woman who then turned into the 15 year old. LOVED her – and the “don’t fall in love with me now” thing … so old-school. Yes, messed up, yes, drinking in a bar during the day, but that’s who Dean’s gonna find. I just loved that dynamic. Certainly not as a “happily ever after” thing – but I just loved the conception of that character, and that of course Dean would connect with someone like that. Not every man would. They were kindred spirits.
A lesser show would have made her a boppity-pretty party girl, about 22 years old. But in general, the women (rare as they are) have “aged” with the guys. and to that I certainly say KUDOS.
Yes, loved her, too.
Loved Tina for Dean! Probably my favorite match up for him in the whole series (even above The Mentalists, sorry Sheila!) Sweet daddy issue alcoholics who would be so good for each other, happy because they are raising their kids in a house rather than a crappy motel room and excited to BBQ hamburgers in the backyard rather than fixing mac and cheese in the microwave.
While that sounds a little happily ever after, I also see raging arguments and glasses thrown against walls while drunk because Tina doesn’t take orders well and calls out both brothers on that co-dependent shit.
//// The “cure” for Cain was his falling in love and getting married. //
Well, there is a huge contingent here (of which I am a member) who thinks that the cure for Dean in general – mark or no mark – would be to knock up some broad and get to work on being a Dad.//
YES. I also thought this before the MoC came along. I said in the comments to another episode that I thought “love” would be the cure for the MoC, but I think for Dean it would have to be a fatherly love, not a romantic one. My ideal is for him to actually become a father, but I think the show will stick with using his love for Sam.
// I get the problem of creating characters that are “good enough for our boys”. //
And I actually can’t stand that attitude, sorry! I understand it but I dislike it. Because then it seems like people asking for that want to eradicate conflict/interest/tension. I loved Amelia, messiness and rudeness and all – because it was INTERESTING. I have found almost nobody who agrees with me on that, but I’m standing firm on that one. In terms of story, she was great. That was a complex grown-up relationship and they were both fucked-up and that’s what happens when you’re fucked up and you’re in your 30s. You gravitate towards other fucked up people. (I speak from experience.) So I thought the choice made to make Amelia a mess (emotionally and literally – please stop shoving limes down the sink, Amelia) – was GREAT. And it brought out really interesting things in Sam, too.
I thought it was fascinating that at that point in his life he would be attracted to THAT. Someone with a dark past, another man in the picture, ghosts, too much drinking, lots of drama … quite a far cry from Jess, yes? I’ve written before about that somewhere – Dean, on the other hand, would run for the hills at the signs of any of that drama. He likes some drama, and he likes crazy sex, but that kind of drama would be too upsetting and threatening. He needs safety. Sam doesn’t. Dean wouldn’t have liked any of that. But Sam did like it. I thought that was fascinating.
I’m not his mother. It’s not up to me to “approve” of who they date.
So I get it, too, I really do, fans feel protective of the characters. But I guess I don’t. I don’t feel protective of them at all – outside of the fact that I love the show and love those two characters. I want them to grow, and have conflict, to take a step forward, then backslide, and be interesting. Whatever that means, I’ll take it. But I don’t feel protective of them. I loved the conflicts between them in Season 9 (couldn’t get enough of it), I loved the Amelia romance, I loved the Lisa tangent – I love anything that helps illuminate these characters – and it’s GREAT when they have to interact with characters who are not each other – because it shows us these other sides.
Your comments on Charlie give me hope. I have a hard time believing she’s actually gone. The sight of her in that bathtub …
Terrible.
// I get the problem of creating characters that are “good enough for our boys”. //
I don’t. I genuinely don’t get it. I want characters that are interesting in themselves. I love Lisa, I love Amelia, I love Jo, I love Bella, I love Ruby. They were good characters, and they brought great stuff in their interactions with the brothers. I LOVE these two guys, so I suppose I can be protective of them in the sense that I want the lines and the situations to be true to them. But protective of their well-being? Certainly not: send them to hell and back, kill them thousands of times, break their hearts with great women, with terrible women, great men, terrible men, and all sorts of beings: that’s what I’m here for. DRAMA!
In general, Lyrie – I’m with you.
i remember this woman who used to comment here – and everything she said was basically like, “Why is the show so dramatic? Why is so-and-so rude to Dean? Why can’t they just sit around and make omelettes and watch movies?” I mean, I’m exaggerating … I finally just stopped responding because obviously we watched the show in very different ways – and that’s FINE – but besides saying, “None of that would be dramatic, ever” … I didn’t know what else to say! She seemed UPSET that stuff happened on the show. So … I’m not sure where to go with that.
I definitely enjoy the episodes where “not much happens” – the one-offs – I almost like those better than the big cliffhanger ones. But yeah: if the show is going to last, then stuff has to HAPPEN.
Fanfic is great for the domestic fantasy stuff. But the show? There needs to be conflict. And unspoken unresolved stuff. That’s dramatic. I mean, it seems so obvious to me but clearly some people don’t see it that way.
I love Gilmore Girls. Once it was super dramatic: Rory lost her bracelet. OK, I’m exaggerating. Slightly. But generally, my favourite shows are those where my heroes suffer like hell. Death, depression, grief, addiction, unhealthy relationships? Yes, please! With humour.
I want to see characters who are even more fuck-ups than I am, and that sets the bar pretty high.
But that’s just me. :)
hahahaha
Yeah, there’s something cathartic about watching all the angst, that’s for sure.
// Once it was super dramatic: Rory lost her bracelet. //
HA!!
Not a problem for me but for the writers to please a rabid fanbase who are afterall their bread and butter. I agree with you about the interesting women along the way. Meg 1&2 are particular favorites of mine. And loved the cougar, Annie, in the haunted house episode. SPN writers do a pretty good job of walking that line of pleasing the fans and still managing to deliver the drama that some just don’t know that they want.
// deliver the drama that some just don’t know that they want. //
Yeah, I think that’s key.
The impulse to write fanfic is AWESOME – but it’s separate from the show’s concerns – and it should be. I think the putting-off of happiness is one of the reasons the show is such a slam-dunk – I mean, people hang in there for decades watching this misery. And sometimes it definitely feels manipulative – the misery, I mean – killing Kevin, and now this – you know – but then you have those softer moments of catharsis and understanding and everyone’s hearts explodes. The teenage girls singing “Carry On My Wayward Son…”
I still haven’t recovered.
and yes, loved Annie!!
//// I get the problem of creating characters that are “good enough for our boys”. //
And I actually can’t stand that attitude, sorry! I understand it but I dislike it. [. . .] I’m not his mother. It’s not up to me to “approve” of who they date. //
Sometimes (often) I think that attitude is less about protecting “our boys” and more about protecting personal fantasies from being disrupted by canon. But, of course, sometimes I’m just mean.
So many great ideas to bring Charlie back without Cas. I love it! It would be even better if she did it herself, thanks to her beautiful brain. I’m going to be so disappointed if that doesn’t happen.
Maybe if we created a catchy hashtag and got it trending on twitter…
#Charlienotdeadjustleveledup
I am a twitter fail…must have more words…
You know, as I was driving back from Costco it struck me as odd that Rowena would brag about her son being the King of Hell and also want him dead. Is this a sign of her own conflicted feelings for Fergus? A pathetic attempt at reflected glory? An indication that she doesn’t really think Sam will go through with it and that she has a different end game?
Thoughts?
I think a lot while driving to Costco as well mutecypher, so here goes. I hope that Rowena has a dark hidden agenda. That all the snarky jokes and the “I want you to kill my son” comments to Sam are distraction, that she is moving everyone towards a different end game a la Ruby. Rowena’s history with Crowley shows a willingness to sell people out, even her family, and her proclamations of wanting Crowley and Dean dead seem like contrived drama.
My best case is that somehow she is in partnership with Lucifer, leveraging MOC and the desire to remove it to open the cage. Fingers crossed. Go Team Lucifer.
Because, yes, Mark Pellegrino as Lucifer was the best/worst biggest baddest ever! I suspect Crowley longs to return to his sales beat at the crossroads. His eternal torment is the insufferable boredom he experiences as King of Hell. Rowena, as any good mom would, recognizes this and even though she’ll never give up “my son was the KOH”, she’s scheming to get her baby boy back to where he’s happiest. With her plan Crowley gets a sort of “honorable” way out and he’ll be much more useful to her, too. A win/win scenario.
And, to continue the theme from upthread, we know that Lucifer is a great big bag of dicks.
Lucy, come home.
Maybe she’s trying to force Crowley to kill Sam and Dean. He flatly said he wouldn’t do it…but if Sam turns up trying to kill him, then…
The gif!!! lulz ….
I think I’m waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less invested in Dean being a father than most of you guys lol, (although I do enjoy the mentor relationships he’s cultivated with quite a few young people over the years) but I can see it being part of a post-show ending. I find it hard to think of anything that threatens the engine of the show more right now than Dean with a young kid but I’ve read enough fic to know that as an ending it could work and not just as a come-in-from-the-cold way as at the end of S5.
And I can see a happy ending being a sunset one, or a MoL Legacy one, or a Bobby Legacy one, or a guns blazing one, or a circle back to MotW, or a return to the Shire one, or a Randall and Hopkirk (Deceased) one, whatever, in greater or lesser shades of triumphant and bittersweet. And all of them I can picture as character-rich, fulfilling, and emotionally-appropriate. We’ve talked about how many genres are operating here and all of them have their own happy or sad endings. I still think a driving-off-together final shot is the most likely, but well, we’re not in a road movie any more, and we got that ending this season anyway. It’s not a dead cert.
I think what’s interesting about the show, and, you know, our need to resolve the tensions/angst in it is that what’s driving it isn’t a mystery or a conspiracy or a can we defeat the Cylons or are there UFOs or how rad will Peggy Olsen be in the final episode on a scale of rad to super-rad, and it’s not will our team catch the slightly badder bad guy like they did every other time. It’s who are these two very specific people inside of and outside of this relationship, and who could they be or have been, and how will the narrative frame the gap between What is and What Could Have Been?
However it goes there’s gonna be at least a tinge of tragedy, melancholy, acknowledgement of what they’ve lost/endured. And I’m still in the middle of processing what this latest loss means, there. I want to see the next episodes now so I can understand already how it’ll shape the narrative and character, because at the moment it seems like the most relationship-rending, character-rending, heartbreaking loss they could have suffered. I am bringing some personal stuff in here no doubt but how their relationship recovers to the point of regaining a sense of fun or honest love I have literally no idea. I’m mystified. I can’t see it. That’s the big blow of the episode for me. It’s like when she died all the potential for future happiness in that relationship went with it.
—
Speaking of genre, the primary reason I dislike the Family Frankenbooger and the network of grand covens and besuited demons and angels etc is that I fucking love it when the show writes itself like a myth and the mundanity of this poorly-conceived YA Urban Fantasy stuff is so far from that that it just makes me want to set myself on fire.
I love your thoughts, Jessie!
// I am bringing some personal stuff in here no doubt but how their relationship recovers to the point of regaining a sense of fun or honest love I have literally no idea. I’m mystified. I can’t see it. That’s the big blow of the episode for me. It’s like when she died all the potential for future happiness in that relationship went with it. //
Yes. Charlie represented (represents – no past tense – can’t deal with past tense!!) health and sanity. Playfulness and connection. Through her presence on the show – the word “love” is able to be spoken (as someone else mentioned upthread). “We all love you, Dean …” Charlie allows for language like that. She doesn’t even have to do anything to create that space! Her love is uncomplicated – in the way it is for most of us out here who are not SPN characters. You love your friends. To Sam and Dean – love just … is so messed UP. But it’s not to HER.
Kevin dying was a cataclysm, of course, for Sam and Dean – but he didn’t represent what Charlie represents.
Even Bobby dying … I mean, that was terrible. But Charlie is different. She’s an “outsider” who strolled right into the inner sanctum of their hearts.
// what’s driving it isn’t a mystery or a conspiracy or a can we defeat the Cylons or are there UFOs or how rad will Peggy Olsen be in the final episode on a scale of rad to super-rad, and it’s not will our team catch the slightly badder bad guy like they did every other time. It’s who are these two very specific people inside of and outside of this relationship, and who could they be or have been, and how will the narrative frame the gap between What is and What Could Have Been? //
That’s exactly right. It’s character-driven, totally. Especially now – It seems that the first 5 seasons had a shape, an over-arching story. But now? It’s season to season baby. I am trying to think of another show that works in this way. I’m coming up blank.
// // I still think a driving-off-together final shot is the most likely, //
Yeah, that would definitely be the most satisfying – although I think I said to you after Fan Fiction that so much was “resolved” for me in that episode, emotionally – I still tear up when I think about it – and I’m still not sure how they freakin’ pulled that off. The necklace! I thought I’d never be able to accept that necklace not showing up again – but … they handled it. Same with them driving off at the end. Gorgeous.
// I fucking love it when the show writes itself like a myth and the mundanity of this poorly-conceived YA Urban Fantasy stuff is so far from that //
Perfectly put. I totally agree.
Please do not set yourself on fire.
There are no guarantees in this life, Sheila.
Thanks for your reply — I basically agree on all counts, particularly on the almost baffling extent to which Fan Fiction is effective and cathartic.
And yes, Bobby’s loss was devastating, and Kevin’s too, but they can still be assimilated or processed in a way that allows for healing, diegetically and non-. They made, like, ontological sense. Kevin was always in peril. Bobby was a father, and fathers die. Even Jo and Ellen – it was sudden and ugly, but they were hunters, and their world wasn’t so irrevocably lonely and tired. But now – they are so whittled away – everything you say about was she brought and represented – she was so necessary! Remember when we were saying last year that if Charlie were around none of Dean’s slide would have been permittable?
It seems that the first 5 seasons had a shape, an over-arching story. But now? It’s season to season baby.
I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately actually, on my molasses rewatch of the second half of the series, and how different they feel. In the first half you really start to feel that the personal is tied to the epic — at first because the scale of the series is so much smaller so the stakes – find dad etc – feel epic, and then because it actually is epic in scale. And then the shift where we’ve all ajusted our expectations of scale but the stories have collapsed right back down and the stakes are mostly intimate (which generally works like gangbusters in the Sam-Dean relationship) but can often feel weakly tied to meaning in the world at large.
I can’t think of another series that’s structured itself in this way either, although its not unusual for mythos to get this messy and haphazard by later seasons.
Anyway, it’s really weird to watch early seasons in conjunction with later ones. The vibe is really quite different, but at minimum the performances and that relationship give a strong feeling of continuity.
Funny, I’ve been thinking about that a lot too. It has to do with the fact that I started watching The X-Files and it made me miss the first seasons of Supernatural terribly.
I love the first seasons, the epic shit, angels, apocalypse, looking for God. The first time I watched it, I remember cringing every time the show went a little further on that territory. First, with Houses of the Holy. I was afraid it would become either to preachy or just plain ridiculous. I mean, not only angels, but « Angels of the Lord »? But then we discover that « angels are dicks ». Oh, wow, OK. Then looking for God? It could have been terrible – that was ballsy, really. Turns out he’s just another deadbeat dad. Awesome! But it was great because, as you said, Jessie, it was tied to the personal.
I love the second half of the show too. It’s just a different era. And it’s good that it is, it would probably have been a mistake to try to keep the same things going. Thanks to those incredible actors and great writers who are really not afraid to try shit, we’ve had episodes like The French Mistake or Death’s Door (I deeply love this one. It saves season 7 for me).
Yesterday I re-watched two episodes at random : Dream a Little Dream of Me and Time Is on my Side. I love season 3. It’s great to see how the story circles back to certain themes without really repeating itself. Time just allows them to explore things differently, as the actors, the writers and the characters change and evolve. It’s really fascinating to see Dean face its demon self warning « this is what you’re gonna become » at this point in season 10. The show is so different (there were no angels yet and Crowley was a big deal back then), but yes, there’s a real sense of continuity.
It feels like they can afford to go season by season because what they’ve been building in the first seasons still pays off. Those characters and their relationship were so solid right from the beginning. How amazing is that?
I know I’m not tired of it. Season 10 was really great (despite farting nuns). I’m not sure I’m emotionally ready for the end of the season (am I ever?), but I can’t wait.
I love Death’s Door, Lyrie!
How crazy is that Demon!Dean telling Dean what he was gonna become — so prophetic!
I am very nervous and moderately excited about whatever devastating thing they have planned for us in the last two episodes. I want it to be over already — the wait is a killer! I need to know!
//I think I’m waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less invested in Dean being a father than most of you guys lol, (although I do enjoy the mentor relationships he’s cultivated with quite a few young people over the years) but I can see it being part of a post-show ending.//
As invested as I am in Dad!Dean, I will admit that it might not make the best TV show and it best suited to the show’s end. (Though I would watch the hell out of it. Or a Supernatural: The Next Generation with older Sam and Dean with grown up kids…that could skip over all the young years, but with some flashbacks and oh god I’m fanficing again.)
Weren’t we speculating a while back that somehow Rowena would infiltrate the Bunker – and the Bunker would somehow be destroyed?
Thereby forcing the guys to go back on the road again …
back to its original structure, in other words.
Maybe it’s time for a change of scenery? Or should I bite my tongue? I know we all love the bunker, and I still hope to do a writer’s retreat there one day.
lol May — the fanficcing impulse is a sly and insidious mistress!
Sheila — I remember there was some speculation. I think that the writers would kill the bunker only as a move to circle them around to the old MotW days, because the bunker’s telling a different kind of story. I hope not, though, I like them having a place to rest their weary heads and do a whole bunch of crying! Plus I’m not too keen to go back to the S6/7/8 days of hanging around in “hunter’s cabins” because they needed somewhere cheap to have a bunch of scenes in :-D Plus plus it’s a handy plot-generation tool.
Rowena’s paycheck: kill Crowley. I’m thinking it’s not death so much as proof to Crowley that he CANNOT love and depend on the Winchesters. But. Hamster’s info that Rowena had a Demon Lover may mean she’s plotting to move Demon Lover into the vacant KOH position? Or is Demon Lover Crowley’s daddy? Yikes, this is sounding soap opera-y.
Agree, these personal losses and betrayals seem to go beyond brotherly recovery unless Charlie is. Not. Dead. If she is in The Matrix then she could rule the Bunker and THAT WOULD BE A GREAT RESOLUTION to it. Someone on-line for Bobby-like assistance, forgiveness possible for the brothers, bros able to get back out onto the road again while Charlie ‘mans’ the bunker 1-800 line.
That is the most likely endgame for Rowena – destroy the men of letters/bunker and reclaim the spellbooks for witchdom. Probably has her eye on ruling the Grand Coven. Wedging between Sam & Dean is her best shot at that. I don’t really like that scenario for the boys. As much as I loved the “route 66” days, trying to reclaim former glory usually falls flat.
//Two good looking brothers in their 20s without attachments & fighting evil has been hot, but pushin’ 40 starts looking creepy.//
What I said earlier about relationships also goes for living out of cheap motels. That is for the young. What needs to be reclaimed is the good ole “creature feature” monster hunting without heaven, hell, angels, etc. – NOT // the mundanity of this poorly-conceived YA Urban Fantasy stuff .//
Truly, back on the road again at 40 would be tragic. Pretty sure End Game is pyrrhic, the J’s have said that’s the only way they can see the boys ending and it takes them ‘home’ where all of their friends & family are. Bleah.
I think Rowena has a *lot* of plans. JA said the season finale is the best script he’s read in years. So I’ll guess we’ll see where *that* leads!
hello. mutecypher, i did something better than visiting keats’s house while in london. i went to winchester city and took a stroll along the gardens where the muses inspired him.
and i really wish to thank you all for helping me to be able to share space with mr. ackles in the asylum 14 uk convention. i did it!!!!!. mr. ackles and me !!!! yesss!!!!
I checked out the web description of the event – everyone from SPN was there. Wow, I bet you had a great time.
weeeelll. the thing is that i went to the hotel, headed for the reception, breathed in the vibe, took a stroll around the corridors, stood in a corner that faced the salon where it took place mr. ackles chat and remained there until the chat ended.
there is a lot of subtext in those four lines, if you know what i mean…
just a silly thought i had on the way back from birmingham. there was a sculpture of a man on a horse slaying a dragon, just in front of a church, but all i could think off was : there is the archaengel michael kicking-ass lucifer.
now the silly thought. what kind of dress code would michael wear? keeping in mind that dean winchester agreed to be michael’s vessel and sam winchester agreed to be lucifer’s vessel ( and he keep the hair and went with the “white look”), what would michael wear?
That sounds like the start of a meme. Instead of What Would Jesus Do, What Would Michael Wear?
And in the totally nitpicking detail area: WTF with the torn off arm? The cuff wasn’t that tight, I’m sure that dislocating/breaking his thumb would have worked to get his hand out of the cuff. Also, ripping the arm off in the middle of the forearm? Um, nope. If it ripped at all, it would have ripped at the elbow, at the joint, not in the middle fo two quite strong bones. Obviously the writers have never cut up a chicken.
Haha, //never cut up a chicken// great observation. These two writers, Ross-Leming and Buckner, are the stellar team that brought us Route 666 and Man’s Best Friend with Benefits. Because this starred Charlie I thought it was going to be a Robbie Thompson ep, but no. Robbie started up a #BringCharlieBack hashtag on Twitter.
Totally. I also thought mid-arm was so wrong it was annoying because how hard to make this on detail make sense… given the other arm in the pant’s pocket weirdness. I’ll have to watch again to see if there was *any* reason for one hand in his pocket. And if weight pulled off anything I’d think it would pull off his hand and the point of pressure: wrist in hand-cuffs.
Stuff like this is distracting!
Just woke up. Singing Carry On Wayward Son.
Kill me already.
If were backed by an all-girls’ chorus accompanied only by piano, you might still be OK. If you were backed by guitar solos, condolences.
Or you might be the new Prophet, about to see next week’s finale before the rest of us poor mortals. If so, please be a good Chuck and write an ending with the possibility for happiness for the boys.
Thank you.
In my utter refusal to process Charlie’s fate right now, I’ve been thinking about Sam’s conviction about Dean getting worse.
Emotionally, this season would feel like Season 3 to Sam, where he had to endure a long, slow march to Dean’s death (along with that horrific detour into the Mystery Spot*.) Back then, Sam had to witness Dean’s acceptance of and resignation to his impending doom. Too many horrible things resulted from that time.
I imagine that Sam’s feeling the echoes of failure, helplessness and self-loathing from the Season 3-4 hellatus. Now that I think about it, I don’t believe he’d be capable of looking at any of this rationally right now.
Poor Sammy.
*Horrific for Sam, awesome to me. Damn this show when it’s firing on all cylinders. (Also, can Charlie’s death be a Mystery Spot-like event? I won’t hold it against the show if it’s a re-set Wednesday this week…)
Victoria Principal climbs into the shower with Dean and tells him it was all a terrible dream…
heh.
But shouldn’t it be Sam she gets into the shower with? He’s the younger brother…
Okay, I was thrilled to get the reference, but am now slightly embarrassed about the sheer depth of my knowledge of bad 80s (70s?) TV. ;-)
I don’t know, isn’t Sam the JR-equivalent brother in this increasingly bizarre scenario? If not evil, the one making bad choices that hurt others.
Or does the MOC make Dean default to the evil brother?
Maybe Charlene Tilton can get into the other shower with the other brother. Symmetry. Dean likes getting laid, Sam needs to get laid. Although Charlene played a Ewing, so there’s a hint of incest if she boinks either brother.
I vote for Dean being JR, because ultimately the MoC was the decision that hurt the most people. Maybe adult-Tina can be his boozy drinks-in-the-afternoon version of Sue Ellen.
That leaves Charlene Tilton for Charlie’s shower…? No need for incest here!
Nicely finessed.
Maybe there could be some Berlin playing on the soundtrack, while everyone was soaping the bad memories away.
hi. do i need to remind somebody that Jensen’s middle name is Ross, like JR from Dallas? John Ross Ewing?
Taking a stab here: I wonder if, from the description of the finale where they say Dean makes a decision regarding the MOC that changes Sam’s life, if Dean passes the mark onto Sam? That Sam, to save his brother, like Cain did, from Hell, will take on the mark?
I don’t usually try and figure out what will happen but I’m very curious this season because it doesn’t seem obvious.
Even if Sam takes on the mark you can’t have next season be a repeat of trying to remove it from him…hmmm. And you can’t have either brother actually dead because the show is about two brothers…although you never know with supernatural. Maybe Dean will be the new King of Hell?
Can you tell I’m kinda looking forward to these last couple of episodes?!